Power Surging During Acceleration (~3000-4500rpm)
07-09-2008, 08:43 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
Power Surging During Acceleration (SOLVED! ...maybe)
Car: '95 Maxima, 5-Spd, 140k. New KS, Coolant Temp Sensor, Fuel Filter, recently cleaned TB + IACV. Still gets good gas mileage. No CEL. 93 Octane Fuel.
Under fairly hard acceleration, (only after the car's warmed up), I experience a noticeable, rhythmic series of power drops/surges as I pass through the 3000 to 4500 RPM range. It is certainly not a violent cut-out - it just feels like I'm lifting off the gas slightly about once every 1/2 second for as long as it takes to get through this RPM range. It commonly happens to me when in 3rd and I'm getting onto the highway.
This problem has persisted for nearly 8 months now - through winter and into summer - rain or shine. I'd previously gotten a Temp Sensor and Knock Sensor code, but I replaced both components. Other symptoms include a very infrequent but harsh power interruption that lasts less than 1/4 second and occurs below 2000 RPM when under medium/heavy throttle in a high gear. Additionally, the idle seems to dip somewhat every few seconds when stopped at a traffic light - but this is barely noticeable.
I've looked at a number of other threads pertaining to similar experiences, but the original poster typically does not include a final post summarizing the actual solution to the problem... ...so I can only narrow it down to one of the following:
MAF (incl MAF wiring)
Injectors
Coils
KS
TPS
EGR
SparkPlugs
FuelPump
Wiring/Grounds
O2's
One person even suggested that lubricating the throttle cable would clear this up (???)
Anyway - I'm left wondering if anyone out there has had this problem and could share a fix?
My end of the bargain: If you guys help me figure this out, I promise to post up the solution that finally works for me
Thanks a lot for the help!
Under fairly hard acceleration, (only after the car's warmed up), I experience a noticeable, rhythmic series of power drops/surges as I pass through the 3000 to 4500 RPM range. It is certainly not a violent cut-out - it just feels like I'm lifting off the gas slightly about once every 1/2 second for as long as it takes to get through this RPM range. It commonly happens to me when in 3rd and I'm getting onto the highway.
This problem has persisted for nearly 8 months now - through winter and into summer - rain or shine. I'd previously gotten a Temp Sensor and Knock Sensor code, but I replaced both components. Other symptoms include a very infrequent but harsh power interruption that lasts less than 1/4 second and occurs below 2000 RPM when under medium/heavy throttle in a high gear. Additionally, the idle seems to dip somewhat every few seconds when stopped at a traffic light - but this is barely noticeable.
I've looked at a number of other threads pertaining to similar experiences, but the original poster typically does not include a final post summarizing the actual solution to the problem... ...so I can only narrow it down to one of the following:
MAF (incl MAF wiring)
Injectors
Coils
KS
TPS
EGR
SparkPlugs
FuelPump
Wiring/Grounds
O2's
One person even suggested that lubricating the throttle cable would clear this up (???)
Anyway - I'm left wondering if anyone out there has had this problem and could share a fix?
My end of the bargain: If you guys help me figure this out, I promise to post up the solution that finally works for me
Thanks a lot for the help!
Last edited by rx7racr; 09-03-2008 at 07:05 PM.
07-09-2008, 10:13 PM
#2
My vote goes to the 1)spark plugs 2)coils 3)TPS 4)maf. The uneven idle points to coils or spark plugs more often than anything else. You can easily check all of these if you search for the procedures under the 4th gen sticky's.
Check your tps but DO NOT LOOSEN THE BOLTS. That's only b/c I have gone through a headache for about a year now. I unbolted my TPS when i didn't even know what it was. I thought it would be a good idea to clean the inside of that thingy attatched to the intake. Wrong.
I drove on the interstate for about an hour w/it fine. Then on the ride home my car would surge but under 0% throttle. I was set at cruise at 70 and it would jump around. Even when i thought i had it calibrated correctly i would get surges when set cruise on the highway (TPS warmed up). You have to have your tps sensor warm to get an accurate reading in Ohms. Check the sticky's for a good writeup...
Check your tps but DO NOT LOOSEN THE BOLTS. That's only b/c I have gone through a headache for about a year now. I unbolted my TPS when i didn't even know what it was. I thought it would be a good idea to clean the inside of that thingy attatched to the intake. Wrong.
I drove on the interstate for about an hour w/it fine. Then on the ride home my car would surge but under 0% throttle. I was set at cruise at 70 and it would jump around. Even when i thought i had it calibrated correctly i would get surges when set cruise on the highway (TPS warmed up). You have to have your tps sensor warm to get an accurate reading in Ohms. Check the sticky's for a good writeup...
Last edited by AndrewR2442; 07-09-2008 at 10:23 PM.
07-10-2008, 08:26 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
Thanks everyone for the suggestions thus far. Today I double-checked the codes: just the 0505 came up, indicating everything's ok. My computer must be a liar.... :-)
Then I checked the TPS (after a 30 mile drive - so it was warmed up). Pin 1 on the connector had 5v. Pins 2 and 3 had about 540 ohms at closed throttle and between 4000 and 4100 at WOT. There didn't seem to be any spikes in resistance as I swept the throttle, so I'm thinking these tests suggest the TPS is OK.
Next I pulled each coil individually while the car idled. With each coil pulled, I observed a VERY significant deterioration of idle smoothness, a notable change in sound and the car shook a bit (especially when I revved it a little). Each coil seemed to make the car shake about the same amount, so I can't say I found any coil that I suspect as being bad. Also, the behavior of the engine when any one coil was disconnected was WAY rougher than my occasional idle interruption, and way rougher than any of the power surging I experience while driving. I'm thinking that if I were actually losing a coil, the harshness I experience while driving would be a lot more severe.
I also tightened the grounds for the KS and the one that appears to ground the injectors and/or coils. There was minimal resistance between these grounds and the "-" battery terminal.
Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier that the spark plugs I've got are only about 1yr or so old - so I wouldn't expect them to be failing yet...
I did notice, however, that one of the wires coming out of the MAF connector showed visible chafing - right down to the stranded copper core (which looked oxidized). Could this compromised insulation be altering the resistive properties of the wire, skewing the MAF readings?? That might be consistent with the fact that my problem never seems to occur until the car has warmed up. Perhaps the computer is running on Open Loop until the car is warm, at which point it begins interrogating the MAF....
thoughts?
Then I checked the TPS (after a 30 mile drive - so it was warmed up). Pin 1 on the connector had 5v. Pins 2 and 3 had about 540 ohms at closed throttle and between 4000 and 4100 at WOT. There didn't seem to be any spikes in resistance as I swept the throttle, so I'm thinking these tests suggest the TPS is OK.
Next I pulled each coil individually while the car idled. With each coil pulled, I observed a VERY significant deterioration of idle smoothness, a notable change in sound and the car shook a bit (especially when I revved it a little). Each coil seemed to make the car shake about the same amount, so I can't say I found any coil that I suspect as being bad. Also, the behavior of the engine when any one coil was disconnected was WAY rougher than my occasional idle interruption, and way rougher than any of the power surging I experience while driving. I'm thinking that if I were actually losing a coil, the harshness I experience while driving would be a lot more severe.
I also tightened the grounds for the KS and the one that appears to ground the injectors and/or coils. There was minimal resistance between these grounds and the "-" battery terminal.
Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier that the spark plugs I've got are only about 1yr or so old - so I wouldn't expect them to be failing yet...
I did notice, however, that one of the wires coming out of the MAF connector showed visible chafing - right down to the stranded copper core (which looked oxidized). Could this compromised insulation be altering the resistive properties of the wire, skewing the MAF readings?? That might be consistent with the fact that my problem never seems to occur until the car has warmed up. Perhaps the computer is running on Open Loop until the car is warm, at which point it begins interrogating the MAF....
thoughts?
My vote goes to the 1)spark plugs 2)coils 3)TPS 4)maf. The uneven idle points to coils or spark plugs more often than anything else. You can easily check all of these if you search for the procedures under the 4th gen sticky's.
Check your tps but DO NOT LOOSEN THE BOLTS. That's only b/c I have gone through a headache for about a year now. I unbolted my TPS when i didn't even know what it was. I thought it would be a good idea to clean the inside of that thingy attatched to the intake. Wrong.
I drove on the interstate for about an hour w/it fine. Then on the ride home my car would surge but under 0% throttle. I was set at cruise at 70 and it would jump around. Even when i thought i had it calibrated correctly i would get surges when set cruise on the highway (TPS warmed up). You have to have your tps sensor warm to get an accurate reading in Ohms. Check the sticky's for a good writeup...
Check your tps but DO NOT LOOSEN THE BOLTS. That's only b/c I have gone through a headache for about a year now. I unbolted my TPS when i didn't even know what it was. I thought it would be a good idea to clean the inside of that thingy attatched to the intake. Wrong.
I drove on the interstate for about an hour w/it fine. Then on the ride home my car would surge but under 0% throttle. I was set at cruise at 70 and it would jump around. Even when i thought i had it calibrated correctly i would get surges when set cruise on the highway (TPS warmed up). You have to have your tps sensor warm to get an accurate reading in Ohms. Check the sticky's for a good writeup...
07-14-2008, 05:19 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
BTW - it was raining like a %$#@% this morning, and the issue persisted with the same intensity. It doesn't seem weather dependent...
(Any more thoughts? particularly on the MAF wiring issue I raised in the last post?)
(Any more thoughts? particularly on the MAF wiring issue I raised in the last post?)
07-14-2008, 12:25 PM
#7
this sounds similar to a problem of mine...but not quite the same.
My car has done this since I got it about a year ago. It did it stock, and it still does it now. For me, it happens when I'm cruising (usually between 40-60) and I let off the gas and then hit it again. Sometimes it does it, sometimes not. To me it always felt like the motor was rocking back and forth on the mushy mounts...especially because I almost had to hit the gas just right to get it to do this. It feels like it gets in a rythm of rocking back and forth and then after a couple seconds it will stop and you'll actually accelerate. It usually happens a bit lower in the rev range for me, but I can get it to do it above 3k.
Well I installed ES poly mounts and it's just the same. Sometimes it seems like it might be worse. Now I'm looking for another cause...
the problem persisted throughout the following:
-two different stock MAFs
-one modified MAF
-USIM+4th gen TB and TPS
-00VI+5th gen TB and TPS
-stock rear coils
-5th gen rear coils
-4th gen IACV dirty and clean
-4th gen and vq40 injectors
The only thing that hasn't been swapped are the front coils. I'll try it, but I have a feeling it won't change anything. And yes, I have a CEL, but the codes are EVAP related, because I never re-installed it after the 00VI.
One thing I've wondered about is the Knock Sensor. I currently have a resistor in there because (it think) the lower harness went bad. There was a point in time that it was loose and over the period of a couple days, I could tell when I had a "working" KS and when the resistor was not making contact, resulting in it feeling gutless. Is it possible that the resistor may be too loose and it causes the engine to stutter when I hit the gas abruptly?
I have no idea WTH is going on. I haven't pursued it because it doesn't affect performance. At WOT in 1st - 4th gears, it doesn't happen (ok well SOMETIMES when I slam it into 3rd at WOT). Mostly when cruising and I abruptly hit the gas. Mostly in gears 4 and 5, sometimes in 3.
I'm tempted to take the hood off and go for a drive to see if the motor is actually rocking...
My car has done this since I got it about a year ago. It did it stock, and it still does it now. For me, it happens when I'm cruising (usually between 40-60) and I let off the gas and then hit it again. Sometimes it does it, sometimes not. To me it always felt like the motor was rocking back and forth on the mushy mounts...especially because I almost had to hit the gas just right to get it to do this. It feels like it gets in a rythm of rocking back and forth and then after a couple seconds it will stop and you'll actually accelerate. It usually happens a bit lower in the rev range for me, but I can get it to do it above 3k.
Well I installed ES poly mounts and it's just the same. Sometimes it seems like it might be worse. Now I'm looking for another cause...
the problem persisted throughout the following:
-two different stock MAFs
-one modified MAF
-USIM+4th gen TB and TPS
-00VI+5th gen TB and TPS
-stock rear coils
-5th gen rear coils
-4th gen IACV dirty and clean
-4th gen and vq40 injectors
The only thing that hasn't been swapped are the front coils. I'll try it, but I have a feeling it won't change anything. And yes, I have a CEL, but the codes are EVAP related, because I never re-installed it after the 00VI.
One thing I've wondered about is the Knock Sensor. I currently have a resistor in there because (it think) the lower harness went bad. There was a point in time that it was loose and over the period of a couple days, I could tell when I had a "working" KS and when the resistor was not making contact, resulting in it feeling gutless. Is it possible that the resistor may be too loose and it causes the engine to stutter when I hit the gas abruptly?
I have no idea WTH is going on. I haven't pursued it because it doesn't affect performance. At WOT in 1st - 4th gears, it doesn't happen (ok well SOMETIMES when I slam it into 3rd at WOT). Mostly when cruising and I abruptly hit the gas. Mostly in gears 4 and 5, sometimes in 3.
I'm tempted to take the hood off and go for a drive to see if the motor is actually rocking...
Last edited by mowgli29; 07-14-2008 at 12:32 PM.
07-23-2008, 07:14 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
UPDATE 7/23/08:
I read in another thread that CRC's MAF Cleaner spray helped resolve a similar issue for another member. I'm not usually a subscriber to the "repair-in-a-bottle" philosophy, but I figured it was only a few bux and a few minutes. Well, I disassembled the MAF and sprayed the everloving crap out of it (being careful not to touch the delicate bits). I cleaned the intake temp sensor too. Reassembled the whole mess and fired it up - - the problem persisted with no change accept for a possible improvement in smoothness as I transition from off-throttle to on-throttle.
Tried some fuel-injector cleaner too - no observable difference except for a lighter wallet...
Troubleshooting will continue...
By the way, I tried to hook up an OBD-II diagnostic system (AutoEnginuity) to the OBD-II port in the passenger footwell. The software would not make a connection to the car's ECU - and I can't figure out why... ...I know there's a raging debate regarding whether or not a 1995 maxima is OBD-I or II, but I've got an OBD-II port, so I'd assume that means the car is OBD-II equipped....
Anyway - still only getting the 0505 code
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Again - I intend to post up the solution when (if) I finally find it!
I read in another thread that CRC's MAF Cleaner spray helped resolve a similar issue for another member. I'm not usually a subscriber to the "repair-in-a-bottle" philosophy, but I figured it was only a few bux and a few minutes. Well, I disassembled the MAF and sprayed the everloving crap out of it (being careful not to touch the delicate bits). I cleaned the intake temp sensor too. Reassembled the whole mess and fired it up - - the problem persisted with no change accept for a possible improvement in smoothness as I transition from off-throttle to on-throttle.
Tried some fuel-injector cleaner too - no observable difference except for a lighter wallet...
Troubleshooting will continue...
By the way, I tried to hook up an OBD-II diagnostic system (AutoEnginuity) to the OBD-II port in the passenger footwell. The software would not make a connection to the car's ECU - and I can't figure out why... ...I know there's a raging debate regarding whether or not a 1995 maxima is OBD-I or II, but I've got an OBD-II port, so I'd assume that means the car is OBD-II equipped....
Anyway - still only getting the 0505 code
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Again - I intend to post up the solution when (if) I finally find it!
07-23-2008, 07:23 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 686
UPDATE 7/23/08:
I read in another thread that CRC's MAF Cleaner spray helped resolve a similar issue for another member. I'm not usually a subscriber to the "repair-in-a-bottle" philosophy, but I figured it was only a few bux and a few minutes. Well, I disassembled the MAF and sprayed the everloving crap out of it (being careful not to touch the delicate bits). I cleaned the intake temp sensor too. Reassembled the whole mess and fired it up - - the problem persisted with no change accept for a possible improvement in smoothness as I transition from off-throttle to on-throttle.
Tried some fuel-injector cleaner too - no observable difference except for a lighter wallet...
Troubleshooting will continue...
By the way, I tried to hook up an OBD-II diagnostic system (AutoEnginuity) to the OBD-II port in the passenger footwell. The software would not make a connection to the car's ECU - and I can't figure out why... ...I know there's a raging debate regarding whether or not a 1995 maxima is OBD-I or II, but I've got an OBD-II port, so I'd assume that means the car is OBD-II equipped....
Anyway - still only getting the 0505 code
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Again - I intend to post up the solution when (if) I finally find it!
I read in another thread that CRC's MAF Cleaner spray helped resolve a similar issue for another member. I'm not usually a subscriber to the "repair-in-a-bottle" philosophy, but I figured it was only a few bux and a few minutes. Well, I disassembled the MAF and sprayed the everloving crap out of it (being careful not to touch the delicate bits). I cleaned the intake temp sensor too. Reassembled the whole mess and fired it up - - the problem persisted with no change accept for a possible improvement in smoothness as I transition from off-throttle to on-throttle.
Tried some fuel-injector cleaner too - no observable difference except for a lighter wallet...
Troubleshooting will continue...
By the way, I tried to hook up an OBD-II diagnostic system (AutoEnginuity) to the OBD-II port in the passenger footwell. The software would not make a connection to the car's ECU - and I can't figure out why... ...I know there's a raging debate regarding whether or not a 1995 maxima is OBD-I or II, but I've got an OBD-II port, so I'd assume that means the car is OBD-II equipped....
Anyway - still only getting the 0505 code
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Again - I intend to post up the solution when (if) I finally find it!
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
07-23-2008, 07:54 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
just for kicks, the following are a list of other threads which seem related to this: I figure this list might help someone else who is searching for similar info...
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...eleration.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...elerating.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...esitation.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...eleration.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...elerating.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...esitation.html
07-23-2008, 07:58 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
I have the same exact issue, read this thread and a possible solution. I have to try this also, but I haven't found the time to do it..Please post back if this works for ya..read on..
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
08-03-2008, 06:11 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
UPDATE - 8/3... More Troubleshooting has been done:
Still no codes at any point (0505 only)
Borrowed an OBD-II scanner that worked with the max. I was able to observe the following while driving:
TPS
O2 voltages (x3)
MAF
Short/Long term Fuel Trims
IGN Advance
Vehicle Speed
RPM
Intake Air Temp
Coolant Temp
Open/Closed Loop Operation (x2)
OK - so I wanted to see if the TPS, MAF, IAT or 02's (or anything else) showed any erratic behavior during the surging episodes. After a number of passes through the 3000-4500 rpm range, with surging observed, it did not appear that ANY signals on the scanner were acting strangely (spikes etc...). From this, I think it's safe to say that the MAF, TPS, IAT, 02's, ECT, VSS and Crank Position sensors were all returning smooth (non-erratic) signals. I'm not exactly sure what the values should be on many of these sensors, but nothing seemed to do anything strange during the surging.
I also paid special attention to the IGN Advance, as I had suspected that the surging could be a retardation in timing - due, perhaps, to a faulty KS. Throughout the surging episodes, the IGN Advance stayed about where it would at other RPM ranges (at similar throttle positions), and it never spiked erratically.
So... The only thing that seemed to change (a little bit) during the surging episodes were the 02 voltages and the Fuel Trims (short-term more). The 02's (one of them in particular) seemed to read much closer to 1v immediately after the surging. Also, the short-term fuel trims (one of them in particular) seemed to go negative after the surging.
If I'm reading this correctly, both the high 02 reading and the negative Fuel Trim seem to indicate that the car could be running a bit rich during the surging episodes. What could cause this? Well - COILS certainly could! If one or more coils weren't firing properly, unburned fuel would be ejected into the exhaust, richening it, and sending 02 values high. Fuel trims should compensate for this by going negative (i.e. leaning out the mixture slightly.).
So I looked at each coil. None of the coils showed any visible signs of arcing or overheating, and I didn’t see any browning of the coil exteriors. With my ohmmeter set on 20k, each coil’s primary circuit (terminals 1+2, as in above diagram) measured between 1.52 and 1.71. It might be significant that 5 of the 6 coils were between 1.52 and 1.63, with the remaining coil measuring 1.71. It might also be significant that I measured these resistances with the engine/coils cold (remember, my problem only manifests when the engine is hot).
Any Ideas?
I might try buying a bunch of coils off e-bay, or maybe 2 new coils and just start swapping them around…
Still no codes at any point (0505 only)
Borrowed an OBD-II scanner that worked with the max. I was able to observe the following while driving:
TPS
O2 voltages (x3)
MAF
Short/Long term Fuel Trims
IGN Advance
Vehicle Speed
RPM
Intake Air Temp
Coolant Temp
Open/Closed Loop Operation (x2)
OK - so I wanted to see if the TPS, MAF, IAT or 02's (or anything else) showed any erratic behavior during the surging episodes. After a number of passes through the 3000-4500 rpm range, with surging observed, it did not appear that ANY signals on the scanner were acting strangely (spikes etc...). From this, I think it's safe to say that the MAF, TPS, IAT, 02's, ECT, VSS and Crank Position sensors were all returning smooth (non-erratic) signals. I'm not exactly sure what the values should be on many of these sensors, but nothing seemed to do anything strange during the surging.
I also paid special attention to the IGN Advance, as I had suspected that the surging could be a retardation in timing - due, perhaps, to a faulty KS. Throughout the surging episodes, the IGN Advance stayed about where it would at other RPM ranges (at similar throttle positions), and it never spiked erratically.
So... The only thing that seemed to change (a little bit) during the surging episodes were the 02 voltages and the Fuel Trims (short-term more). The 02's (one of them in particular) seemed to read much closer to 1v immediately after the surging. Also, the short-term fuel trims (one of them in particular) seemed to go negative after the surging.
If I'm reading this correctly, both the high 02 reading and the negative Fuel Trim seem to indicate that the car could be running a bit rich during the surging episodes. What could cause this? Well - COILS certainly could! If one or more coils weren't firing properly, unburned fuel would be ejected into the exhaust, richening it, and sending 02 values high. Fuel trims should compensate for this by going negative (i.e. leaning out the mixture slightly.).
So I looked at each coil. None of the coils showed any visible signs of arcing or overheating, and I didn’t see any browning of the coil exteriors. With my ohmmeter set on 20k, each coil’s primary circuit (terminals 1+2, as in above diagram) measured between 1.52 and 1.71. It might be significant that 5 of the 6 coils were between 1.52 and 1.63, with the remaining coil measuring 1.71. It might also be significant that I measured these resistances with the engine/coils cold (remember, my problem only manifests when the engine is hot).
Any Ideas?
I might try buying a bunch of coils off e-bay, or maybe 2 new coils and just start swapping them around…
08-03-2008, 06:19 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 74
here's a link to a recent thread describing known bad-coil symptoms, which says all resistance readings should be between 1.3-1.7 megaohms. These symptoms sound worse than I'm experiencing, but perhaps my problem is just the beginning stages of coil failure...
...anyway - here's the link
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...-symptoms.html
...anyway - here's the link
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...-symptoms.html
08-04-2008, 07:55 AM
#16
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,161
I have the exact same problems. I have noticed that when my car does the initial stumble on acceleration at low RPMs with WOT my fuel gauge dances with the stumble, like the ECU is cutting fuel or something. I also have the same "surging power" with 3/4 throttle through all the gears really. It's done this since I bought it in '99, and I've never tracked the problem down. I've made a few small attempts, MAF, Coilpacks, KS, plugs, and nothing seemed to help al that much. In for a solution guys!
08-04-2008, 10:32 AM
#17
First off, I'm a 5spd, are any of you autos?
GREAT work with the OBD-II scanner rx7racr! That eliminates a lot of possibilities already, thanks!
If I can find the time, I wanna try and make a video of what my car does...I'm curious if it's the same thing or not. Sounds similar, but like I said, mine feels like the engine is rocking back and forth. Like I'm flooring it then letting off then flooring it really really really fast.
Slickismax, you talking about a fuel pressure gauge? That's rather intriguing...I can't think of why the ecu would cut fuel unless there is some other sensor malfunctioning...but could it be a fuel pump problem?
GREAT work with the OBD-II scanner rx7racr! That eliminates a lot of possibilities already, thanks!
If I can find the time, I wanna try and make a video of what my car does...I'm curious if it's the same thing or not. Sounds similar, but like I said, mine feels like the engine is rocking back and forth. Like I'm flooring it then letting off then flooring it really really really fast.
Slickismax, you talking about a fuel pressure gauge? That's rather intriguing...I can't think of why the ecu would cut fuel unless there is some other sensor malfunctioning...but could it be a fuel pump problem?
Last edited by mowgli29; 08-04-2008 at 10:38 AM.
08-04-2008, 10:48 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 686
I wrapped my front 3 coils in electrical tape and the surging has been eliminated almost 95%. I will do the back 3 sometime next week, and post back. Try this for all of you that are having this issue. I followed this thread to resolving this issue..
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
08-04-2008, 11:29 AM
#21
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,161
I wrapped my front 3 coils in electrical tape and the surging has been eliminated almost 95%. I will do the back 3 sometime next week, and post back. Try this for all of you that are having this issue. I followed this thread to resolving this issue..
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ough-hell.html
08-04-2008, 11:30 AM
#22
08-04-2008, 11:35 AM
#23
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iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,161
btw, I'm 5-spd too.
Last edited by Slickismax; 08-04-2008 at 11:38 AM.
08-04-2008, 12:00 PM
#24
. If you can get a vid up, it would be great to be able to say FOR SURE that we have the same problem. I also thought of the mounts, in fact, I thought maybe the soft stock mounts were part of the problem. Well now that I have the poly mounts in, it's obviously not fixed, but the symptoms did change a bit. The engine seems like it doesn't move as far back and forth, but the stuttering is certainly a little quicker now.
I just went out and put different front coils in. I think they're from a 3.5
because they only use one bolt as opposed to two. I do have other 3.0 coils that I'll try if these don't make a difference. In the rear, I used to have the stock 4th gen coils, but now I have the 00' coils bolted properly to the 00' valve cover. I've had the same problem with both setups. The problem did seem to get better when I put the 00' coils in and bolted them down though. ( because before that I had the 4g coils in 00' VC not bolted down).
I'll keep you updated about changing coils.
Oh, also, I didn't see a need to wrap the coils in tape, because the boots don't seem deteriorated AT ALL. The rubber is still nice and soft and thick. I don't see how the coils could be shorting out because of that. The only thing I can think of is the paint on the coils. You know how there is black paint on the part of the coil that gets bolted down? Well that is chipping off of my coils from removing them a bunch. Could this be significant?
08-04-2008, 12:27 PM
#25
Ok so I was reading over the thread posted above and saw this, post #23:
I suppose I'll be trying the electrical tape thing!
wrapped ignition coil #2 with electric tape today. Wrapped it all around...very nicely with lots of layers etc. All I have to say now is W O W ! It freakin worked! My pauses stopped! It's very weird because when I took the ignition coil #2 out (the one most people told me will most likely be defective for some odd reason) the rubber and everything on the coil seemed perfectly normal. I did not see any deteriorating rubber or anything of that sort. I guess it somehow misfired even though you could not see any defects with a naked eye. AMAZING!
08-04-2008, 12:31 PM
#26
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Yeah, that's the post I saw too. Mine look fine as well, and they tested fine, so I never thought they had an issue. It'll be late when I upload the vid and pics, but I will come through!
08-04-2008, 01:29 PM
#27
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What brand are your plugs? I had an occasional stumble at idle that went away when I replaced my plugs. The old ones only had about 10-15K on them, but they were Autolites, and the replacements were NGKs. It may just be the brand.
08-04-2008, 07:07 PM
#29
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Here's the vid. It does it in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear. I was in 5th gear for the vid. It also does it at higher RPM up to about 4k, but not as consistently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUGFpW09Po
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUGFpW09Po
Last edited by Slickismax; 08-04-2008 at 07:20 PM.
08-04-2008, 07:31 PM
#30
hmmm... ive been following this thread and i thought i had the same problem, well i do have a problem but its nothing like slicks video. the best way i can describe it is it feels like people humping in my back seat
. i notice it mostly uphill about 3/4 throttle.
. i notice it mostly uphill about 3/4 throttle.
08-04-2008, 07:43 PM
#31
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Here's the vid. It does it in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear. I was in 5th gear for the vid. It also does it at higher RPM up to about 4k, but not as consistently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUGFpW09Po
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUGFpW09Po
08-04-2008, 07:44 PM
#32
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(3/4 throttle, uphill - - same story with mine)
08-04-2008, 07:58 PM
#33
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UPDATE 8/4:
Having gotten pretty excited about the talk of electrical tape being able to fix this problem, I tried it out - - but only on the front bank (cyl 2, 4 and 6), as I didn't have a lot of time:
I wrapped the heck out of all 3 coils... I also measured their primary circuits again - this time when the coils were hot - - all three showed significantly higher resistance than when cold (nearly 2000 ohms hot, vs. around 1500 ohms cold). I also verified the sparkplug brand. I knew I'd installed them about 1.5yrs ago, but I couldn't remember what kind I used - - turns out I was smart and used NGKs...
Anyway - long story short, I went for a drive with the #2,4 and 6 coils all wrapped up in electrical tape, and I didn't notice any difference - the surging / power-loss persisted...
This still means either:
A.) The coils could be experiencing a failure mode other than arcing to the sides of the sparkplug recesses
B.) I didn't use enough tape, and the arcing persists
C.) the problem is with coils 1,3 or 5 (that I didn't tape today)
or
D.) My problem is something other than coilpacks...
I'll probably try taping the rear bank of coils in the next few days, and I'll report back with the findings...
Thanks everyone for the continued help!
Having gotten pretty excited about the talk of electrical tape being able to fix this problem, I tried it out - - but only on the front bank (cyl 2, 4 and 6), as I didn't have a lot of time:
I wrapped the heck out of all 3 coils... I also measured their primary circuits again - this time when the coils were hot - - all three showed significantly higher resistance than when cold (nearly 2000 ohms hot, vs. around 1500 ohms cold). I also verified the sparkplug brand. I knew I'd installed them about 1.5yrs ago, but I couldn't remember what kind I used - - turns out I was smart and used NGKs...
Anyway - long story short, I went for a drive with the #2,4 and 6 coils all wrapped up in electrical tape, and I didn't notice any difference - the surging / power-loss persisted...
This still means either:
A.) The coils could be experiencing a failure mode other than arcing to the sides of the sparkplug recesses
B.) I didn't use enough tape, and the arcing persists
C.) the problem is with coils 1,3 or 5 (that I didn't tape today)
or
D.) My problem is something other than coilpacks...
I'll probably try taping the rear bank of coils in the next few days, and I'll report back with the findings...
Thanks everyone for the continued help!
08-05-2008, 08:55 AM
#35
Slickismax, your vid sounds exactly like car. We must have the same problem.
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
Also, I just got done with a coil overhaul! I took out all six coils (remember I have 00' rear coils because of the 00VI), wrapped them in electrical tape, stretched the spring a wee bit, and cleaned off some corrosion/oxidation.
The oxidation was found when I took the boot off the coil. I looked up into the coil, where the spring sits, and noticed it wasn't too bright and shiny....sort of oxidized, I suppose just from being old...So I spun the spring around alot and managed to scrape the layer of oxidation off, so there is now a nice shiny layer of metal for the spring make contact with.
I just streched the spring to put more pressure on the sparkplug to keep the spring seated on it. I doubt it was a problem, but now I know it won't be.
I'm getting ready to go to work, so I'll let you guys know how the drive goes!
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
Also, I just got done with a coil overhaul! I took out all six coils (remember I have 00' rear coils because of the 00VI), wrapped them in electrical tape, stretched the spring a wee bit, and cleaned off some corrosion/oxidation.
The oxidation was found when I took the boot off the coil. I looked up into the coil, where the spring sits, and noticed it wasn't too bright and shiny....sort of oxidized, I suppose just from being old...So I spun the spring around alot and managed to scrape the layer of oxidation off, so there is now a nice shiny layer of metal for the spring make contact with.
I just streched the spring to put more pressure on the sparkplug to keep the spring seated on it. I doubt it was a problem, but now I know it won't be.
I'm getting ready to go to work, so I'll let you guys know how the drive goes!
08-05-2008, 09:05 AM
#36
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Slickismax, your vid sounds exactly like car. We must have the same problem.
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
Also, I just got done with a coil overhaul! I took out all six coils (remember I have 00' rear coils because of the 00VI), wrapped them in electrical tape, stretched the spring a wee bit, and cleaned off some corrosion/oxidation.
The oxidation was found when I took the boot off the coil. I looked up into the coil, where the spring sits, and noticed it wasn't too bright and shiny....sort of oxidized, I suppose just from being old...So I spun the spring around alot and managed to scrape the layer of oxidation off, so there is now a nice shiny layer of metal for the spring make contact with.
I just streched the spring to put more pressure on the sparkplug to keep the spring seated on it. I doubt it was a problem, but now I know it won't be.
I'm getting ready to go to work, so I'll let you guys know how the drive goes!
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
Also, I just got done with a coil overhaul! I took out all six coils (remember I have 00' rear coils because of the 00VI), wrapped them in electrical tape, stretched the spring a wee bit, and cleaned off some corrosion/oxidation.
The oxidation was found when I took the boot off the coil. I looked up into the coil, where the spring sits, and noticed it wasn't too bright and shiny....sort of oxidized, I suppose just from being old...So I spun the spring around alot and managed to scrape the layer of oxidation off, so there is now a nice shiny layer of metal for the spring make contact with.
I just streched the spring to put more pressure on the sparkplug to keep the spring seated on it. I doubt it was a problem, but now I know it won't be.
I'm getting ready to go to work, so I'll let you guys know how the drive goes!
08-05-2008, 09:51 AM
#37
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Slickismax, your vid sounds exactly like car. We must have the same problem.
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
There is one possibility I thought I might bring to attention....My dad, a Nissan tech, said that 4th gens had problems with breaking wiring harnesses. Right where the harness passes through the firewall, wires would break. Apparently it was pretty rare, but it was more common in the earlier years. I'm wondering if that may be our issue, considering yours is a 96 (slickismax) and mine is a 97. I hope to God that's not it....but just thought I'd mention it.
http://www.lyberty.com/car/Maxima_A3...NTB98-008b.pdf
08-05-2008, 10:14 AM
#39
And as you can see, I made it to work. Unfortunately, the hesitation remains
!I'm starting to go back to thinking that it isn't a sensor malfunction but rather the engine is just being sent into oscillations when the throttle is sharply applied.
I was paying close attention to what is required to make the engine do this, and basically I have to make the engine start rocking, and then it continues for a bit. Maybe there is a sensor malfunciton triggered by the engine rocking, which makes it continue, but I have to make it rock by sharply hitting the throttle. It doesn't seem like anything other than sharply tapping the throttle is inducing these oscillations.
If I ease into the throttle, no problem, I have to abruptly hit the throttle. Also, it only does this in 3rd 4th and 5th, just like Slickismax said! It seems like in 1st and 2nd, there is enough power being put to the wheels to keep the engine from rocking....like the engine will rotate, but because of the power, it rotates back and stays there. Once you get into the higher gears, there is less power going to the wheels, and it's not enough to "hold" the engine once it rotates backward. Therefore, it gets into a rythm rocking back and forth.
Thats my theory. So unless we find information that might indicate otherwise....my next attempt at a resolution may just be solid motor mounts of some sort
Oh yeah, and I took a vid on the way to work. I'll try to upload it soon. It's a camera phone, but it is 3MP, so hopefully it will be good enough.
Last edited by mowgli29; 08-05-2008 at 10:18 AM.
08-05-2008, 11:53 AM
#40
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That sucks that it didn't fix it. I'm still going to do it just to see. I don't think it's the mounts, I think it's something causing the engine to miss, or the ECU is doing something funny. I wish I had a Consult...