DjHackStyle

I just spent like $600 on brake parts and my brakes feel like shyt i dont understand whats going on.

All 4 rotors - slotted from brakelabs
All 4 corners hawk hps pads
Front brakes are 6th gen 12.6 rotors with brand new calipers.

My brakes sucked before so i bought everything slowly and installed everything yesterday and after $600 my brakes still suck. Feels like no change, like i still have my old brakes on.

Both rear calipers are sliding properly. 1 rear caliper was harder to push in than the other but it went in.

Front calipers are brand new and i bled them 2 times each just in case. Im using valvoline synthetic dot 3&4 fluid like the org recommended.

I did the break in procedure as best i could do, And my car still lacks stopping power. Pedal feels normal. From 60mph i slam on the brakes and the car slows down for the next 50ft until it stops. Even if i push the pedal harder it still has the same stopping force. It doesnt stop harder if i slam the pedal into the floor, its like a consistant pressure throughout the entire braking. The brakes have no grab at all. My friends acura with duralast gold pads has amazing grabby brakes,at idle i can actually push the pedal to the floor with significant force applied. i dont get it.

Plz help.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

Brake booster?
Condition of brake lines?

There should be somewhat of a difference/improvement!!

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

did you do the 6th gen rotor swap properly? Did you bleed ALL 4 brake lines properly? Do you have ABS?

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

^^ Forgot about suggesting to bleed...and '03 should have ABS standard

DjHackStyle

Lines looked fine. I tested the brake booster the way they say here on the forum. When the car is off i press the pedal and it gets rock solid. I turn on the car holding the pedal and it goes in half way. I think that means its good?

i bled the front two lines. I do have ABS.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

exactly.

Also, OP mentioned 4 pads...he should have a total of 8 pads...2 pads per corner. I would assume when he said "4 pads" he meant "4 corners" but want to make sure.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Bleed ALL OF THEM. NOT only the front two You bleed LF, RR, RF, LR IN THAT ORDER.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

What is the break-in procedure you did?

DjHackStyle

Yea i meant all 4 corners new hawk hps pads

ok this im going to do cause its the only thing i could think of that sounds reasonable.


Like going fast and slowing down without conpletely stopping mulyiple times from like faster speeds aswell.

I noticed in previous cars new pads and rotors always smell funny or smoke a lil during brake in. These brakes never released a smell or smoke nothing. Very weird to me.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Did you follow EXACTLY these threads?

http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...e-upgrade.html
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...e-upgrade.html

You need a shim kit as well...

You didn't **** up and get the wrong pads did you? You should have gotten 6th gen size pads for the front, and standard 5th gen size for the rear. Should have gotten two 6th gen size rotors for front and 5th gen size for the back. Also, 6th gen size calipers up front, standard 5th gen size calipers in rear...

DjHackStyle

I got the correct pads and rotors the way you mentioned eveything fits good and nothing rattles do i still need a shim kit? Thought that came on the new pads. Would a shim kit prevent me from stopping?

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

If the caliper had to travel further out to push the pads because they weren't shimmed...then yes.

Were there shims or not with the new pads?

And yes, bleed your brakes properly too.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

This is something that's weird to me too...you should get that new brake smell. I've always gotten that new brake burn smell; on a stock 4th gen, stock 5th gen, 13" bbk on a 5th gen

Sounds like the rotors could be glazed over. Basically by correctly breaking them in your're creating enough heat to bed the pads uniformly to the surface of the rotor, creating a better surface-to-surface contact.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Gemner

iTrader: (4)

the FSM has this as the bleed procedure (Page 9 of the brake section):

Right rear brake , Left front brake , Left rear brake , Right front brake

Also, brand new brakes arent spectacular, give them up to a couple hundred miles before you pass judgement. If they are still bad AND they are thoroughly bled, you might have a hardware issue. If the calipers in the rear arent sliding well that could be it.

The shims should be just to prevent brake squeal so if you arent getting squeal you shouldnt need the shims

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

My order was close enough

DjHackStyle

Ok ill use this. I read the threads you showed me and im missing two things.
I need a shim kit and i need to bleed all 4 corners properly. I dont know much about this shim kit but i guess i need it? Ill bleed everything later today, thanks.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

all the shims do is basically act as little spacers to ensure good connection btwn caliper and bracket with the pads....did you have them with your pads you bought or not?

After you bleed, brake them in properly as Jeff mentioned above. They may not have been bled in so they've got the glaze still.

DjHackStyle

The hawk hps pads come with some metal shims riveted on

MaximaZero

Did you make sure the bleeder screw is on top? I had this problem too when I first installed my calipers due to installing the calipers on the wrong sides and ended up having both upside down. You can't bleed the system properly unless the calipers are oriented correctly.

DjHackStyle

Yea i read that entire post about the 6th gen brake upgrade. i made sure the bleeder screw was on top. But i will double check.

DjHackStyle

Ok i made sure both calipers have bleeder screws on top.





The pads have these back plates on them. I believe theyre shims do i still need to add more shims?

rblower2012

iTrader: (1)

Nope, those are the shims everyone is talking about

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

The bed-in and break-in I like to think of differently, whether they are or not. What you did was bed-in with the stopping procedure. Then I think of the next few hundred miles as the break-in.

I recently posted my experience with Hawk HPS on a stock set-up. I didn't get hardly any brake odor. After the bed-in it took another 300 miles normal driving to really feel the brakes were a significant improvement. After 500+ miles, I'll never run anything else on my car.

You simply need to give them 500 miles of driving. Then report back.

DjHackStyle

Ok so i just bled all 4 corners the way the FSM specifies. There was some air in the rear right and the rear left had horribly black fluid. So i took it for a spin and the car feels like it has brakes now, They feel great now i can actually stop hard like in case of emergency. The brakes feel great but not amazing, and i want that amazing feeling everybody has mentioned with the 6th gen setup. I feel that my brakes are working properly now although my pedal doesnt feel as firm as i want it to feel, and with significant pressure i can make the pedal touch the floor. i dont feel like i need to touch the floor while driving though it brakes adequately.

Im going to take the advice of driving 500 miles and see how it feels then. But for now i believe this solved 80% of my problem.

BlackThornDemon

I have duralast organic on my max now. Let me tell you, there's brake dust everywhere. I hate them. But, hearing all the talk about these Hawks really makes me wanna get them.

quickster

If after 500 miles you are still not satisfied, you may want to consider a brake pedal adjustment. I don't have an FSM, but I know it explains it in the Haynes manual. Just a thought.

DjHackStyle

Didnt think this was possible will definitely look into it.
Im also wondering if the brake master cylinder can be bad. I dont think its leaking cause ive never needed to add fluid.

4th gen maxi

iTrader: (1)

Low fluid?
Might need new brake booster.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

You just need them pressure bled.get the vaccum hand one from HF for like $20 and follow the directions because if your not good at bleeding the system your not going to be able to do it with just the pump n purge method plus i know you have alot of air in that system you had all 4 lines open.remember the air will travel up towards the master cylinder.

DjHackStyle

is this the pump your referring too?

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-b...kit-69328.html

it pumps fluid into the line to the master cylinder or out from the line??

reading the description i can do this myself right and i dont need any air compressor correct?

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

Yup it does it either direction no compressor needed

DjHackStyle

Ok thanks ive been looking for a reason to buy that tool, always saw it in harbor freight, seemed interesting.

TravisCadello

Sounds like you Glazed the rotor and or pads...one way to prevent this is to clean all grease n finger print off rotor right before bolting wheel back on.

You can remove pads and use a 400grit sand paper to renew pads and clean rotors up real nice maybe use a scuff pad on both sides and brakes part cleaner.

if not they will never grip that rotor like you want..GL

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

This is exactly the Hawk recommendation for installing new pads......but only if using old rotors. I think many people miss this. I did all four rotors by hand with 380 grit paper. If any oil or contaminant got on the new rotors as you suggested, this is a good recommendation. I think failing to do this is why some have the brake issues they do after new brakes.
I'd still wait for after 500 miles. If no change, I think first thing is to follow this suggestion for resurfacing. Although, Unless the OP sat on the brakes any length of time during the bed-in process or contaminated the pads/rotors, I suspect resurfacing won't help.

However, I just remembered Brake labs advertises a special coating on their rotors. I can't recall, but it might be worth looking into the differences between te Hawk and rotor bed-in instructions. A hand resurfacing may be in order. BTW, my front rotors are brakelabs slotted as well. But I had mine already broke in on stock pads before installing the Hawks.

DjHackStyle

I did clean the rotor surfaces with brake cleaner. Like i said the car stops but doesnt feel to the full potential and the pedal is very low.

i went to my buddys shop today and he said to me the brake master cylinder feels bad. He said its not putting out the pressure it should be putting out. so i will be getting a new masyer cylinder this friday, ill let you know if this solves anything.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Interesting you posted that. I had been thinking on your issue earlier and recalled I had an issue with my I30 similar to what I hear you describe. Although the car was totaled before it was fixed, the master cylinder or booster was where I was heading to resolve the problem.

Hope that resolves your issue. Looking forward to your findings.

DjHackStyle

Was the car totaled because of bad brakes?

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Nobody thought the seals on the master cylinder could be bad? That would be my first guess and I would check that first before investing in bleeders. Everything that everyone has mentioned matters but even if these issues were the problem its not going to increase the stopping power substantially. Also, as long as you have enough brake torque to engage the ABS then really that is all you need.

EDIT: saw you found it was the MC. good deal

DjHackStyle

Its not fixed yet so i dont know yet. I feel that it makes sense, but i read everywhere that a master cylinder is bad when it leaks and mine doesnt leak,i never have to add fluid.