tonyinclearwater

I just bought a 2003 Maxima and now I decide to do some research.

I have the VQ35DE.

I’ve seen posts regarding the cause of oil burning issues on these vehicles / engines. Some posts attribute the cause to a right side valve cover having a passage that gets clogged. Same post(s) suggest replacing the valve cover as a fix.

I have also read that the cause was defective or inadequate piston rings that may not seal properly at certain RPM levels. The same or similar posts state the Nissan changed the rings in 2004 to fix the issue.

Please reply to the questions I will pose here with direct, applicable answers / replies if you can knowledgeably do so.

I'd really like to know what percentage of these cars / engines experience this oil burning issue.

Is this an issue that is well known, or proven to affect ‘all’ of these engines (my focus mainly, naturally is the 2003 Maximas)?

Has anyone personally had this oil burning problem, replaced their right side valve cover, and had that resolve the problem?



Same question for piston rings please?



Other proven, personally experienced resolutions to this oil burning problem? (IE have you had the oil burning problem, fixed ‘something’ and had that resolve the problem?)

Also have you seen other evidence to validate any suspected cause for this oil burning problem?

Can we possibly draw a correlation between 'hard' (high RPM) drivers and the problem?

If I determine that my Maxima that I just bought is NOT burning oil, are there any preventative maintenance measures that I may be able to take to prevent the oil burning problem?


My odometer reads 42202 miles, clean carfax, and the car feels looks, and drives like that is the correct mileage. I will be keeping a VERY, VERY close eye on the oil level and giving updates on oil consumption here.



As you can see, I am VERY analytical and inquisitive about my Maxima(s) and would LOVE as detailed as a response as anyone can knowledgeably provide please. Thanks in advance for any response.

EDIT - ADDED 1AM EST 11/5/2010;

Okay, this is going well. Thanks to all that have replied and contributed to this discussion.

In any future posts, or if anyone wants to edit a previous post, please include the following data;

A. The make, model, and year of vehicle you have that is or is not having the oil buring or oil consumption issue.

B. If the vehicle had the problem when you bought it, or if it started sometime after you bought it.

C. The age of the vehicle and mileage on the vehicle when the problem started if this data is known to you.

D. Where you car was manufactured, USA or Japan, and if in possible, which plant. This can be determined by you VIN, or some portion thereof, I believe.

E. The cause that you suspect for the oil usage, and any remedy you used and if it worked.

Thanks again.

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

It's a well known issue, there are lots of threads and polls in this forum about it.
Seems that about 1/3 of VQ's burn some oil.

1/2 qt per 1000 miles seems to be sort of "normal"

My last one burned one qt between oil changes.

So far my current one has not burned any oil.

Good job finding a 2003 with only 42k miles on it!

VQP0WER

If you even remotely searched the forums, you would have the answers.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I think its less then 1/5 of VQ35s burning oil.

It seems as if the 350Zs with there all different variations of the VQ have the most issues with oil burn off(especially the rev-up models).

tonyinclearwater

I did search the forums. In my OP I stated the mixed results that I had found. Forgive me if I did not search enough to find the definitive answers that I was looking for here.

If you do have, or know where to find definitive answers on this issue, i'd love for you to share them.

Thanks.

tonyinclearwater

So your current maxima is not burning any oil. Is it a 3.5? 2003? Current Mileage on that car please?

When you say 1/3 of the VQ's do you mean 1/3 of all of the VQ's, or 1/3 of the VQ 3.5's?

I had 160k on my 1996 when it was totaled and it NEVER burned oil.

sascuderi

Not limited to the Max......our 2003 Murano with the same VQ would burn some oil too.

026speed

I too have an oil burning issue and drive equally crazy, high rev, and relaxed... So idk if it's driving style or just an early vq35 production problem.. I changed the rear vc to a 2004 vc, rubber spark plug rings not plastic like our cars have, and that def helped out big time, oil was leaking onto the plugs and fowling them, going thru 2 quarts between oil changes 3k mi.. Not cool.. Still burn a little bit now.. But its more like 1/2 quart between changes.. I also get a rattle upon start up, timing chain been doing it since car was new, some say that's part of the prob but for me the vc was the bigger prob.. Take off your Intake Manifold and check the rear plugs, if they have oil on them get a new vc.. Good luck and enjoy, the car is great

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Ha! Try 3 qts and not even 1500 miles in. Thin *** oil. 10/15w40 from now. This 5w30 crap is lame.

tonyinclearwater

How many miles on your car?

tonyinclearwater

How many miles on your car? Can you say where the odometer was when your problem started?

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

The VQ oil burning issue is strictly related to the 3.5VQ engine, primarily from 2002-2003.
My other car was a 2003 Altima with the 3.5 and burned some oil, but manageable.

My current Max is a 2002 with 85,000 miles.

Mileage did not seem to matter much is a VQ was going to burn oil, it did it from day 1.

Check out this thread
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...ase-enter.html

View Poll Results: VQ35DE ISSUES - Please place your poll You have a VQ35DE and its burning oil 104 13.87% You have a VQ35DE and its burning oil and making rattles between 1500-1800RPMS 73 9.73% You have a VQ35DE and you have only rattling, no oil issues 119 15.87% You have a VQ35DE and you have no issues with your motor. 454 60.53%

Eirik

iTrader: (2)

Remember that all engines burn oil at high RPM--albeit trace amounts. The VQ35DEs have abnormally high oil-burning issues regardless of RPM, mileage, and driving habit.
My fiancee's 2007 Camry owner's manual even mentioned that running at high RPM for extended periods of time will burn oil as the seals can not properly function under the high vacuum.

As far as I understand, that's to fix a drip or leak, not a burn.

Changed at some point by the 2006 model year cars. I can't find an exact date, no matter what queries I enter.

Nissan admitted to the piston rings causing the problems and took steps to correct it. I haven't heard of any HR engines that burn oil (besides the inevitable oddball), nor any late-model DEs. I have read on the Org about some of the early 6th gens that burn oil, but, again, it's more difficult to distinguish whether that's a trend or just oddballs congregating in one spot. The problem the earlier VQ35DEs have is certainly a trend--it affects Maximas, Altimas, Muranos, 350Zs, G35s, and M35s. I'd assume it would affect any/all of their early 2000s product line with that engine, but haven't read anything about FX35s using it. They might have debuted late enough to avoid the problem, or their buyers just aren't as active on the internet.

Don't let the raging fanboys fool you. The number is definitely between 20 and 33%.

Nope. It could theoretically affect "all" of them, but it seems safe to say that no more than ~40% built before 200X are affected.

Several oil changes on Mobil1 0W-40 "European Formula" synthetic has reduced my oil consumption from 1 quart every 500 miles to 1qt/4000 miles. Driving habits definitely factor in, but it has consistently been radically lower than when I was using 5W-30 dino oil.

Don't let the old guys confuse you on that one, either. They see a 0W or 5W and flip out--the oil is only at that viscosity when its cold. It warms up quickly and never stays at 0W for long. There is never blue smoke when my car starts. The oil is not "too thin" and magically squeezing through the piston ring. Or, if it is, it's in such tiny amounts for such an equally tiny number of engine cycles that it is essentially zero.

Swapping the oil to heavier stuff that is harder for your engine to push around just changes your problem of using some oil, which just costs money to maintain, to harming performance and possibly prematurely killing your engine due to plugging the holes with molasses.

People talk about the pre-cats falling apart and somehow getting sucked backwards into the engine. I laugh at this. They cite issues with a completely different engine in a completely different car with a completely different exhaust system... I don't see how that factors in at all, especially since Nissan admitted that the piston rings weren't all manufactured to handle the increased compression found in the VQ35DEs over the VQ30DEs and DE-Ks. Bad supplier? Bad engineering? A few hundred employees fell asleep while assembling the early engines? Only VPs at Nissan could answer that.

Maybe in quantity burned, but only a shaky line can be drawn. It would seem easy/logical to draw that correlation, but some of these cars started burning oil at fewer than 30,000 miles and others burn oil even with a granny/fuel-cost-conscious driver behind the wheel. Automatics and manuals, young and old drivers, none of that factors in. You either got crappy rings from the factory or you didn't. The proof is found in the posts on this topic in this very forum dating back to 2003.

Sure. Use quality oil and change it as often as you should.

Ha. Good luck getting analytical responses. The usual shtick around here is to write "LOL UR A N00B GO SEARCH" and you only find results that contain posts reading "LOL UR A N00B GO SEARCH" because the original posts they are referring to are long gone. Or, even better, they direct you to links to posts that don't work anymore because the forum changed numbering systems a few years ago.

For the people that care enough to respond, just understand that the majority of them mean very well, but can't help but write under the influence of Nissan's Kool-Aid.


Hope this helps somewhat!


Edit: This doesn't help, but I bought my car with 118K miles and strongly suspect it was sold due to the oil burning problem.

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure that the above is a fair assessment of the forum. The oil-burning 3.5 engine has been the hottest Nissan topic on ANY Nissan forum for the last 9 years.

350Z, Altima, Maxima, you name the forum it has been beat to death.

If someone was unaware of it when they bought a car, it is not because the information is not out there.

tonyinclearwater

Okay, this is going well. Thanks to all that have replied and contributed to this discussion.

In any future posts, or if anyone wants to edit a previous post, please include the following data;

A. The make, model, and year of vehicle you have that is or is not having the oil buring or oil consumption issue.

B. If the vehicle had the problem when you bought it, or if it started sometime after you bought it.

C. The age of the vehicle and mileage on the vehicle when the problem started if this data is known to you.

D. Where you car was manufactured, USA or Japan, and if in possible, which plant. This can be determined by you VIN, or some portion thereof, I believe.

E. The cause that you suspect for the oil usage, and any remedy you used and if it worked.

Thanks again.

tonyinclearwater

Your right. I wish I would have read all this before buying the vehicle. I wish I would not have been rear-ended in my beloved 1996 Maxima. That being said, in your reading, learning, and knowledge, do see any patterns regarding which vehicles this happens to? Vehicles built in one plant, or one country or another? Do you know of any data broken down by VIN that would establish whether or not a vehicle may be predisposed to oil consumption based on the VIN or other identifying data please?

Mr. Brett

iTrader: (7)

FWIW, I'll add my input as to what has happened with my Maxima:

When I first got the Maxima, it burned no oil between changes. That was at 101k miles. At about 150k, it started using about a quart and a half to two quarts. That was when I started modding. I replaced the exhaust manifolds with headers, and put a straight-through exhaust system on.

The amount of oil my car consumed dropped considerably. It now burns about 3/4 of a quart between oil changes. This is a 2002 with 178k miles on it.

The car I picked up today, an '03 6MT, the kid told me burns about 2 quarts between changes. So I'm going to experiment and see if putting my headers on the new car, along with a testpipe, catback, etc. will help out. He already had the valve covers changed (I'm assuming most likely with new 5.5 covers), so if the issue doesn't get any better, installing 6th gen covers will be the next step. This car has 136k on it.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

175k, but I've also had two other 3.5s.

1st VQ did not burn a drop until the precats fell apart and ruined the motor. Yes, it's real. It went from burning nothing to 3 + qts in under 1k miles instantly.

2md VQ was a brand new '05 motor. No burning

This one burns but at different rates. Exhaust was clogged from the flex pipe falling apart inside, so I'm sure that didn't help anything. I also used 15w40 previously and it burned at about half the rate as this 5w30 (all mobil 1 of course).

I'm sure it would burn nowhere near what it currently does if I drove "normal".

Eirik

iTrader: (2)

Again, pre-cats can't disintegrate after two years and 30,000 miles, right? That might be aggravating the problem with the rings, but the rings are the undeniable issue at hand in almost every single oil-burning engine.

My understanding of the relation between engine internals and the exhaust pieces is far from complete. Help me understand--how can a piece located downstream from the flow of exhaust gases disintegrate and get sucked back into the engine? I'm not seeing how the engine sucks air from the front (ie, the intake manifold) and the back (ie, the exhaust manifold) simultaneously. Are you saying it sucks from intake during one part of the cycle, then sucks from the exhaust during another? Suck, squeeze, bang, blow, right? How can the blow get flipped to a suck?

New car!! I look forward to your logs of the experimentation.

Trying to untangle causation from variables that appear to correlate is difficult, of course. Drowning deaths and ice cream sales both rise during the summer--causation? No...

J-Rod

iTrader: (1)

2000/Nissan/Maxima/SE/5-spd

Built: USA/Tennessee; build date 11/99

I bought car brand new in April 2000 (116 miles on clock)

Has burnt oil since first oil change around 600 miles to MObil 1 syn 5w/30.

I don't have a cause for the burn/usage... if I did I would fix it. However, I notice the burn is more when I drive "sprited" and at higher RPM. Which I usually do about 1 tank a month. It burns/uses more, the more "racing" of the engine I do.

Car has little over 120,000 on clock now, and the oil usuage is less and less as time goes on. Sometimes will go months without losing/using a drop. I have never had to change a O2 sensor, cat, or precat. There is no motor oil leaks anywhere. And probably only have to add a quart a year. Yes, I only change my oil once a year, and have done so for almost 4yrs now... funny about the same time the burn/usage started falling off.....
-----------------------------------------

Now that I have helped you, when you get ready to sue Nissan North America can I get a cut???? j/k

J-Rod

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with you sir.

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

Well lets put it this way, the 4th gen forum here rarely discusses oil burning issues.
I have two of the 4th gen 3.0's, and not only do they not burn oil, but the oil in those cars does not even get dirty between changes.

All of the negative publicity that Nissan has received from the loss of oil has been in the 3.5 motors.
Ok, that and the exploding precats in the 4-cyl motors.
Oh yeah, and the butterfly intake nuts that come loose and fall into the head, destroying the 4-cylinder cars that didn't have the grenading precats.


I'm surprised Nissan has weathered those storms.

J-Rod

iTrader: (1)

Back pressure. I am not familiar with that particular problem, but that would be an answer to your question.

J-Rod

iTrader: (1)

I don't think there are many pre 2002 owners here... at least it doesn't seem there are to me? But the problem is there.

I have owned 2 other 4 cyclinder Nissan's (Sentra & 200SX,,,, well my wife has) and I personally didn't know about any trouble with the precats both cars ran like champs for 10 plus years.... and other than here I don't hear about the oil problem. I have numerous neighbors with Nissan's and they didn't know there was such a problem, until I pointed it out. but these are people they don't even change there own oil, or even it check it for that matter...


EDIT: seems the best way to address a problem, is not admit to a problem.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

I forgot to say that my engine was only at 75k when it spun a bearing. It's probably possible if driven hard for 30k miles to trash the crap precats (runs too rich WOT). Although, I doubt it. I was just pointing out that it's more than the rings causing oil issues.

People are finding out now that the average mileage on 5.5s is over 100k how damaging the cats are. Gutting or replacing them with headers is MANDATORY, period. Same goes for all altimas and sentras (hence why nissan got sued over it).

Maxgig

iTrader: (5)

I had a 97 Se 5 speed that didn't burn a drop of oil. Now I have an 03 Se 6 speed (with 109k miles) that burns about a qt between oil changes. I found that if I drive it hard it will burn more. For instance I drove 230 miles one way last weekend sometimes hitting over 90 mph.
When I got home 2 days later my car was making the "knocking" noise I've grown accustomed to more often so I checked my oil. It didn't even register on my dipstick, I eventually added about 3 qts of oil. Later that same day when I re-checked it the oil was extremely dirty as well. I plan on changing it this weekend, although I'm about 1500 miles short of my normally scheduled change.
I've had the 04 valve cover fix and it still burns oil, I monitor my oil religiously so this is something I've learned to live with.

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

Umm, unless you live in a state like california.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Then make it look like you have cats. F those stupid hippies. Insignificantly slowing the destruction of the planet is pointless. People will never learn. It's a futile to attempt to prevent it. People won't learn until it is far too late. And we deserve it, too.

You can sleeve gutted cats if worried about perf.
No one would ever know, regardless. That's what 02 sims are for. Or you can pay off someone to pass it.

SteveB123

iTrader: (2)

Well, that's true.

Or are you talking about everyone EXCEPT you?

Gizm0

iTrader: (1)

I have 2003 6mt Maxima I bought with 77K miles, now has 100k miles. It burnt about 1/2 a quart of oil b/w oil changes when I bought it, but now it burns about 1 - 1.5 quart every 2k miles. I don't drive like a race driver, but I like to go WOT to the red line every once in a while.

A few months ago, I left my car sit for 10 days without driving. When I got back from my trip, I turned on the engine and lots of white smoke came out of the exhaust for a few seconds... there was definitely oil in one of the cylinders...

There is no way oil could have came UP and inside the cylinder through a faulty piston ring, unless it defied gravity somehow...

Thinking logically it could only be either a blown head gasket, or leaking through a valve or through the spark plug.

Last week, I replaced my spark plugs and there was oil in one of the rear plug wells... so I also replaced my rear valve cover as well.

I haven't driven for long enough to know if it fixed my oil burning issue, but will let you know if a few weeks/months...

I hope it did

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I'd like to say you did that backwards, but that's harsh and unrealistic. If I had researched 8 years ago, my Maxima would have HLSD.

Put me down as an I-don't-know. By that I mean, I check my oil at least once a week. Sometimes I can go between oil changes without a drop lost. And sometimes I have to add up to half a quart. Usually, there's no oil loss.

Also put me down as one of the people with a failed seal at the center plug on the rear VC. This happened around the 7-year mark.

Replace both of your valve covers for covers for the 2004 Maxima. Other than that, just keep checking your oil.

And if you're replacing your rear VC, consider the (expensive) preventative maintenance of replacing your rear coil packs while they are accessible. Do that once, mid-life, and you'll probably never have to worry about it again. I say that with hindsight, as I wait for my rear bank to fail... having already replaced 2 front bank coil packs.

Lucky guy. Nice find.

Welcome to the 5th gen forum, Tony.

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

Just to add to the discussion...

My sister's 05 rev-up G35 is on it's FOURTH (4th) motor from Infiniti (thankfully under warranty) and even this motor is burning over 1qt per 1001-1500 miles. She is now contacting Nissan North America as this continues to be an issue with their engines and it's at the point where she would rather refuse the car next time.

Mr. Brett

iTrader: (7)

Jeep (yes, it's not Nissan, by a long shot, but it's just an example) had a huge recall on some of their catalytic converters in '95, '96. They had an issue with some of the honeycombs disintegrating in under 12,000 miles.

Not sure if this is realistic or not, but riding down the highway, if I let off of my gas pedal and coast, it almost sounds as though the exhaust note (my car drones like a sonofa*****) goes from exhaust pouring out the muffler to air getting pulled back into the muffler, if you follow what I'm saying. Sort of like if you try whistling by exhaling, and then inhaling. The tone changes.

I doubt that's the case, because I would think air flowing back into the engine would cause serious issues. But that's the only way I can see the precats getting sucked into the engine.

New cars are always a blast. Well, unless you go from a Porsche to a Cavalier.

When I was working on my car last night, I did find this: I don't believe my new car is burning as much oil as the kid I bought it from assumed. What I found is that both the oil pan and rear valve cover are leaking. Not enough to where the car leaks when it's turned off, but enough to where when the oil system is under pressure, it sort of forces a little oil out through the seals.

I plan on fixing those and seeing how they help the situation.

Wow, I feel bad for your sister. She's seriously having that many issues? How many miles are on the motors?

My 2003 Z has no issues. It uses about half a quart between changes.

Eirik

iTrader: (2)

I'm confused about that G35. Wikipedia says the 2005 redesigned G35 included "a viscous limited slip differential and the higher output VQ35de "Rev-UP" engine." The VQ page says that the VQ35HR debuted in the 2007 model year G35s. I was working under the impression that the "rev-up" engine was the HR, but apparently I'm mistaken.

Data like this is why I can't find any specific date for when the fixes were implemented that stopped the epidemic. I would assume the oil-burners present in the 2005 model year cars would be a vastly smaller percentage than the 2002-03 model year.

zero2sixtyZ

iTrader: (30)

When the piston is starting to head back down after expelling the exhaust gasses, the exhaust valve is actually still open to suck in a little bit of exhaust to aid with compression and if there is a broken up cat in the way, bits can (and do) get sucked back into the cylinder.

The pre-cats break apart and get sucked back in, ruin the piston rings and thus why I keep adding quarts in, and only drained 2.5 out last oil change. Our cars are not the only ones to have this issue.

I'm pretty sure if someone bought a new VQ and instantly installed headers, they wouldn't have oil burning issues.

tonyinclearwater

Okay, after reading all the entries that have been posted, please allow me to show my ignorance.

What exactly a pre-cat?

I am going to presume from the context clues that it is something before the catalytic converter.

I will also presume that it is something inside or integral to the exhaust manifold since replacing the manifold with headers is suggested here.

What does a pre-cat do? What is one made of, what is its function?

Okay, here is an important question;

Has anyone that has the oil burning problem taken off the manifold, seen that these Pre-Cats were INTACT and all there?

Excuse me if this has already been answered here, but has anyone tried replacing the Pre-cats and STILL had the oil burning problem?

Can someone tell me how to start a new poll?

Might there be a way to contact the participants of the old poll, and ask the people who did not have oil burning BACK THEN if they do now, and maybe ask the ones who DID have oil burning how they fixed it?

Would the owner or Moderator of the site need to approve this and can anyone say if he would approve it?


I wish I could see SOME kind of pattern or trend here…

Some contributors here say if one of these cars is an oil burner, it will be a burner from the start. Others say their car did not start burning till 75, or 100k.

I will take this opportunity to second the comments of the person who said that their 4th gen not only does not BURN oil, but it does not even get dirty.

AMEN to that.

Before I got totaled by a ford I could check my oil at 2000 miles and it literally looked BRAND NEW, and ZERO oil loss.

I would have been LOTS happier if they would have just used the same motor, Etc in my 2003.

I am also reading about the other problems and complications with these 5th gens and strongly considering selling this thing even though there seems to be NOTHING wrong with it at the moment with 42,000 and change on the odo.

trooplewis

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but you would be wrong about that.
At least in the 2003-2004 VQ's, where the problem was first noticed.

The problem cars-something like 1/5 to 1/3 of the ones sold, had oil burning issues that were not related to precats.


Later, even the ones that did not have oil burning problems, would develop them if the precats grenaded. This was MUCH more rare in the 3.5 than it was in the 2.5 4-cyl Altimas.

When you had the precat problem, oil-burning was severe, in that is scratched up the cylinder walls and would burn a quart or more every 800-1000 miles.

The original problem with the 3.5 had "livable" oil burning issues, something like 1/2 qt per 1000 miles, and when inspected the cylinder walls looked perfect. As someone else mentioned, it was a problem with the rings and how they were seated, not the damage done by debris in the combustion chamber boucing around with every cycle of the piston.

Gizm0

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure the precat would cause the oil burning issue... My rear precat failed (made the rattling noise while lifting off the gas) and was replaced. I asked the mechanic to get the old precat back. The inside of the broken converter was loose, but completely intact. It did not break down into pieces and therefore, little broken parts did not come back in the engine. It was still one solid piece that was just moving up and down the converter with exhaust backflow... But i do have an oil burning issue. +/- 1 qt every 1500 miles

OOmaxSE

iTrader: (19)

She has contacted a lawyer for a few reasons. She feels that Infiniti is neglecting her as a customer and that the problem, after many trips to another state (where the closest dealer is), has not been resolved. Each motor has less than 3K miles. This fourth motor currently has less than 2k miles and is operating under the "oil consumption" test as we speak. We will soon find out the verdict for this motor when it reaches precisely 2k miles. The 05-07 G35 6MT (IIRC 06 350Z as well) motors are notorious oil burners out of all VQ's; "revup."

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

You were lucky.