2002 6MT - Popping out of 6th gear
12-21-2009, 01:30 PM
#1
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2002 6MT - Popping out of 6th gear
I don't even know where to start with this one.
I had my transmission rebuilt back in January because the bearings were noticeably shot and noisy. About 2 months ago, it started popping out of 6th. It was at the point where any amount of applied torque would just shoot it out of gear. The same shop took it back and rebuilt the parts that involve 6th gear. The first time they put the transmission back up, it was SUPER stiff getting into 6th and they would not advise me taking the transmission back. They then brought it up and down two more times and got back to the same popping out of 6th with little effort.
The shop was run by a former Nissan master tech of 16 years experience (as a Nissan tech) and MANY more years experience afterward as well as another former Nissan dealership transmission specialist. They also outsourced the transmission to another certified Nissan transmission tech. All three could not see why it is doing this. They all claimed that the internals of the transmission were fine. The shop is willing to part ways with the car and charge me absolutely 0 for the work done (including a free clutch-kit [authentic Nissan parts]).
What recommendations do you guys have?
Rebuild this tranny again with a different shop?
Used tranny?
Sell the car?
I had my transmission rebuilt back in January because the bearings were noticeably shot and noisy. About 2 months ago, it started popping out of 6th. It was at the point where any amount of applied torque would just shoot it out of gear. The same shop took it back and rebuilt the parts that involve 6th gear. The first time they put the transmission back up, it was SUPER stiff getting into 6th and they would not advise me taking the transmission back. They then brought it up and down two more times and got back to the same popping out of 6th with little effort.
The shop was run by a former Nissan master tech of 16 years experience (as a Nissan tech) and MANY more years experience afterward as well as another former Nissan dealership transmission specialist. They also outsourced the transmission to another certified Nissan transmission tech. All three could not see why it is doing this. They all claimed that the internals of the transmission were fine. The shop is willing to part ways with the car and charge me absolutely 0 for the work done (including a free clutch-kit [authentic Nissan parts]).
What recommendations do you guys have?
Rebuild this tranny again with a different shop?
Used tranny?
Sell the car?
12-21-2009, 01:55 PM
#2
My money would be on something inside the tranny. There's just not much else that would couse it to pop out of gear like that. Unless something is binding up the shifter cables causing it to pop out of gear when the motor rocks back and forth. The shop should be able to find that though.
Here's what I would do. Take the refund. Go here http://car-part.com/ and find a low mileage 2004-2006 Maxima 6-speed HLSD and have it put in. It's a direct fit.
That's the best thing you can do. You'll have a better than stock tranny and be out of pocket less money. Plus you can get the HLSD.
A straight tranny swap without the clutch job shouldn't be to expensive if you can't do it yourself. You could find a local org member to do it for you too. It's not as hard as it sounds.
Here's what I would do. Take the refund. Go here http://car-part.com/ and find a low mileage 2004-2006 Maxima 6-speed HLSD and have it put in. It's a direct fit.
That's the best thing you can do. You'll have a better than stock tranny and be out of pocket less money. Plus you can get the HLSD.
A straight tranny swap without the clutch job shouldn't be to expensive if you can't do it yourself. You could find a local org member to do it for you too. It's not as hard as it sounds.
12-21-2009, 02:55 PM
#3
Are there any warranty from the shop?
Like what Derrick said, I would get a 6th gen HLSD tranmission and ask that shop to swap it with a discount rate. Since they should hold some responsable for it...
Like what Derrick said, I would get a 6th gen HLSD tranmission and ask that shop to swap it with a discount rate. Since they should hold some responsable for it...
12-21-2009, 03:41 PM
#4
It sounds like they're refunding the money for the rebuild and the clutch. The clutch parts alone are a few hundred.
He can get the used tranny for well under $1,000 shipped. Also, with a few phone calls he can find a rebuild shop to give him a few hundred dollars for his broken one. Maybe even work it into the labor price of a swap.
I did the swap myself but I found a shop to buy my old tranny for $200. The third rebuild shop I called was very happy to have it.
He can get the used tranny for well under $1,000 shipped. Also, with a few phone calls he can find a rebuild shop to give him a few hundred dollars for his broken one. Maybe even work it into the labor price of a swap.
I did the swap myself but I found a shop to buy my old tranny for $200. The third rebuild shop I called was very happy to have it.
12-21-2009, 04:22 PM
#5
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As you said, the shop is giving me the entire clutch kit for free. My transmission is an open differential. I know, should I opt to swap it, I should go with the HLSD.
What are the differences between the 2002-3 tranny and the 2004-6? Is it just a tighter final drive gear ratio? Any particular reason I should pay the extra 100-250 more? The 04-06 will bolt right up and axles will fit right in?
This entire dilemma has really taken a toll on me and is going to financially set me back a solid paycheck.
What are the differences between the 2002-3 tranny and the 2004-6? Is it just a tighter final drive gear ratio? Any particular reason I should pay the extra 100-250 more? The 04-06 will bolt right up and axles will fit right in?
This entire dilemma has really taken a toll on me and is going to financially set me back a solid paycheck.
12-21-2009, 04:57 PM
#7
As you said, the shop is giving me the entire clutch kit for free. My transmission is an open differential. I know, should I opt to swap it, I should go with the HLSD.
What are the differences between the 2002-3 tranny and the 2004-6? Is it just a tighter final drive gear ratio? Any particular reason I should pay the extra 100-250 more? The 04-06 will bolt right up and axles will fit right in?
This entire dilemma has really taken a toll on me and is going to financially set me back a solid paycheck.
What are the differences between the 2002-3 tranny and the 2004-6? Is it just a tighter final drive gear ratio? Any particular reason I should pay the extra 100-250 more? The 04-06 will bolt right up and axles will fit right in?
This entire dilemma has really taken a toll on me and is going to financially set me back a solid paycheck.
12-21-2009, 05:43 PM
#8
The 6th gen tranny has better syncros and doesn't get the 3rd gear crunch like the 5.5 gen will. The shifting is a bit smoother too. It's just a more reliable tranny because of the syncros. In my opinion it's worth the price for the piece of mind. You don't want to buy one and go through the install just to have it crunch.
THe 6th gen tranny does have a slightly shorter final drive but it's barely noticeable.
It's a direct swap. You use the same axles and everything. It bolts right up with no mods. Several of us here have done it. I did it my self so I can tell you for sure.
THe 6th gen tranny does have a slightly shorter final drive but it's barely noticeable.
It's a direct swap. You use the same axles and everything. It bolts right up with no mods. Several of us here have done it. I did it my self so I can tell you for sure.
12-21-2009, 05:46 PM
#9
12-21-2009, 06:24 PM
#10
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12-21-2009, 07:09 PM
#11
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I saw a thread saying the shifter bracket that sits on top of the tranny is stronger in the 6th gen than the 5.5 gen one. Any truth to this? Does it come with the tranny? If not, I can certainly pick up one from the dealer. It can't cost too much.
12-21-2009, 10:54 PM
#12
When I got mine it came with the bracket.
12-21-2009, 11:12 PM
#13
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12-21-2009, 11:38 PM
#14
12-22-2009, 06:17 AM
#15
could the shift controller be worn? the piece in the tranny the two cables attach to?
BTY 03 tranny has single baulk synchros on 1 2 and 3rd gear, on the 06 tranny you get triple cone synchros on 1 2 and 3. and 03 is about 3.8 final drive and 06 gives you 4.1 final drive.
BTY 03 tranny has single baulk synchros on 1 2 and 3rd gear, on the 06 tranny you get triple cone synchros on 1 2 and 3. and 03 is about 3.8 final drive and 06 gives you 4.1 final drive.
12-22-2009, 06:52 AM
#17
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No, they are not all locking differentials. I seem to be leaning towards following Derrick's idea with the 04-06. The shop that I am now looking to take the car to said they don't care which tranny I bring in.
12-22-2009, 06:56 AM
#18
No, the HLSD was a factory option from 2002 till 2006. You'll have to confirm that any 6-speed you look at has HLSD.
I forget the codes but you can look at the tranny code or VIN# of the donor car. You can also inspect the tranny visualy.
If you look through the axle holes on an HLSD tranny you can see straight through with no obstruction. A perfect circle like looking through a paper tower roll.
On the open diff tranny you will see about a half circle if you look through. You'll see a round shaft blocking part of your view.
I forget the codes but you can look at the tranny code or VIN# of the donor car. You can also inspect the tranny visualy.
If you look through the axle holes on an HLSD tranny you can see straight through with no obstruction. A perfect circle like looking through a paper tower roll.
On the open diff tranny you will see about a half circle if you look through. You'll see a round shaft blocking part of your view.
12-22-2009, 06:56 AM
#19
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could the shift controller be worn? the piece in the tranny the two cables attach to?
BTY 03 tranny has single baulk synchros on 1 2 and 3rd gear, on the 06 tranny you get triple cone synchros on 1 2 and 3. and 03 is about 3.8 final drive and 06 gives you 4.1 final drive.
BTY 03 tranny has single baulk synchros on 1 2 and 3rd gear, on the 06 tranny you get triple cone synchros on 1 2 and 3. and 03 is about 3.8 final drive and 06 gives you 4.1 final drive.
12-22-2009, 07:19 AM
#22
One more thing. As you're looking at car-part.com don't be afraid of the transmissions in Canada. The shipping can be very reasonable and there are a lot of low mileage HLSD trannys there. Nearly every manual Max that went there had the HLSD. A manual tranny is a lot more common option up there where down here it's more of a young person/hot rodder type of option.
12-22-2009, 08:06 AM
#23
The HLSD is the same but the transmission is better. It has better stronger syncros. The final drive is also a little shorter on the 04+.
Here's the deal, I wouldn't swap a perfectly working 02 tranny for an 04 just to do it. If you need a new tranny anyway the 04-06 is the way to go. If you're going through all the hastle and expense it's well worth it to get HLSD at the same time.
The exception would be if someone with an open diff wanted HLSD. In my opinion it would be worth swapping a working tranny for an 04-06 with HLSD.
Here's the deal, I wouldn't swap a perfectly working 02 tranny for an 04 just to do it. If you need a new tranny anyway the 04-06 is the way to go. If you're going through all the hastle and expense it's well worth it to get HLSD at the same time.
The exception would be if someone with an open diff wanted HLSD. In my opinion it would be worth swapping a working tranny for an 04-06 with HLSD.
12-22-2009, 10:50 AM
#24
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I am seeing a lot of inconsistent information that pertains to syncros throughout my search.
02-03 - Crappy synchros
04-05 - Better synchros
06 - Better synchros + double synchros on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
Is this accurate? I thought it was all the same across 04-06. Are the 02-03 synchros the same as the 04-05?
02-03 - Crappy synchros
04-05 - Better synchros
06 - Better synchros + double synchros on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
Is this accurate? I thought it was all the same across 04-06. Are the 02-03 synchros the same as the 04-05?
12-22-2009, 11:42 AM
#25
The 04-05 syncros are definately better. I did a lot of research including speaking with Dave B. when I did mine. I did the swap back in 06 so I wasn't considering the 06 tranny as an affordable option. I've heard the 06 was a little better too but I haven't confirmed it. I've been very happy with the 04 I have for the last 50,000 miles.
I would say you're very safe with an 04-05 tranny. If you can get an 06 for the same or a very close price then go for it. I think you'll find a lot more 04-05 HLSD trannys out there though.
I would say you're very safe with an 04-05 tranny. If you can get an 06 for the same or a very close price then go for it. I think you'll find a lot more 04-05 HLSD trannys out there though.
12-22-2009, 11:51 AM
#26
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Thanks for the advise. It is actually hard to find a locking one. I am calling up listings on car-part and they are giving me tranny codes from 5-speed altimas and/or non-locking.
Just for people in the future. The code is indicative of what is in the tranny.
RS6F51H is the one everyone wants. The 6 means 6-speed and the H means Helical/HLSD. Don't buy transmissions with a 5-code or an A (open differential) on the end.
RS5F50A - 1995-2001 Open
RS5F50V - 1995-2001 Viscous LSD
RS5F51A - Altima 5-Speed Open ( I think)
RS6F51A - 2004 Open
RS6F51H - 2004 Helical LSD
Just for people in the future. The code is indicative of what is in the tranny.
RS6F51H is the one everyone wants. The 6 means 6-speed and the H means Helical/HLSD. Don't buy transmissions with a 5-code or an A (open differential) on the end.
RS5F50A - 1995-2001 Open
RS5F50V - 1995-2001 Viscous LSD
RS5F51A - Altima 5-Speed Open ( I think)
RS6F51A - 2004 Open
RS6F51H - 2004 Helical LSD
Last edited by scrhale; 12-22-2009 at 11:59 AM.
12-22-2009, 05:49 PM
#28
I have the 06 model in my 03 and it is hands down a better transmission.
RS6F51H
1st and second have triple cone synchros
3 has double cone
The actual gear ratios remain the same from 02-06, but the final drive is different.
RS6F51H
1st and second have triple cone synchros
3 has double cone
The actual gear ratios remain the same from 02-06, but the final drive is different.
12-23-2009, 09:31 AM
#30
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That's an interesting idea about the shift controller. FWIW, I picked up the car yesterday and drove it home and drove it like 3 miles this morning. OMG! I have been driving my brother's Prelude for 2-3 weeks now. It's very low to the ground, STS, and Spec 2 clutch. I got in my 4x4 Maxima and got the complete opposite: high up, flag pole shift ****, and the clutch felt like it was falling to the floor without me pushing on it.
To the important part: I have a question from a post I saw from you Derrick.
"It's a direct swap. The only difference is where the shifter cables hook up to the levers on the transmission. You'll have to use one of the levers from your old tranny. It's no big deal at all. One bolt with no modification or anything. You'll see what I mean when you have it in front of you."
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...h-gen-one.html
[Post #2]
Are you referring to the same thing that knight posted in the image? Is it 100% necessary? Thanks.
To the important part: I have a question from a post I saw from you Derrick.
"It's a direct swap. The only difference is where the shifter cables hook up to the levers on the transmission. You'll have to use one of the levers from your old tranny. It's no big deal at all. One bolt with no modification or anything. You'll see what I mean when you have it in front of you."
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...h-gen-one.html
[Post #2]
Are you referring to the same thing that knight posted in the image? Is it 100% necessary? Thanks.
12-23-2009, 10:54 AM
#31
My mechanic mentioned something about slightly modifying the shift controller to fit on the 03, but it was a 5 minute fix. I don't recall what he said exactly that had to be done.
I have a brand new controller from an 06 tranny, pm me and we'll work something out. ( the one in the pic) I don't have a pic of the 03 version.
I have a brand new controller from an 06 tranny, pm me and we'll work something out. ( the one in the pic) I don't have a pic of the 03 version.
Last edited by knight_yyz; 12-23-2009 at 10:58 AM.
12-23-2009, 05:50 PM
#33
In regards to the newer altima transmissions working or not, if you called dave B and asked him the part numbers for the HLSD differential that might help figure it out. If the part numbers are the same for both the Maxima and the altima for the differential it should work. If the parts are different it may mean the axle splines are different. From what I have read the 07 spec V uses the same transmission as the altima as well. The spec v came with HLSD the altima did not, so there is a guy who did the hlsd swap to the altima.
It may even be a matter of buying the newer transmission and swapping in the older version of the HLSD. I can't find any diagrams of the altima transmission online, most of the fsm sites are down right now.
In regards to the popping out of gear thing, the nissan FSM states the following reasons for this to be happening...
control device and/or cable worn
check plug return spring and check ball worn
shift fork damaged
gear damaged.
It may even be a matter of buying the newer transmission and swapping in the older version of the HLSD. I can't find any diagrams of the altima transmission online, most of the fsm sites are down right now.
In regards to the popping out of gear thing, the nissan FSM states the following reasons for this to be happening...
control device and/or cable worn
check plug return spring and check ball worn
shift fork damaged
gear damaged.
12-23-2009, 06:23 PM
#34
Just found out that if you really don't want the final drive to change, if you do the swap to the 06 tranny, you could just swap the final drives from your original 03 tranny to the new 06. It's just a matter of opening up the tranny and swapping the one gear ring on the diff. Plus a couple of bearings may need to be swapped.
12-23-2009, 08:29 PM
#35
That's an interesting idea about the shift controller. FWIW, I picked up the car yesterday and drove it home and drove it like 3 miles this morning. OMG! I have been driving my brother's Prelude for 2-3 weeks now. It's very low to the ground, STS, and Spec 2 clutch. I got in my 4x4 Maxima and got the complete opposite: high up, flag pole shift ****, and the clutch felt like it was falling to the floor without me pushing on it.
To the important part: I have a question from a post I saw from you Derrick.
"It's a direct swap. The only difference is where the shifter cables hook up to the levers on the transmission. You'll have to use one of the levers from your old tranny. It's no big deal at all. One bolt with no modification or anything. You'll see what I mean when you have it in front of you."
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...h-gen-one.html
[Post #2]
Are you referring to the same thing that knight posted in the image? Is it 100% necessary? Thanks.
To the important part: I have a question from a post I saw from you Derrick.
"It's a direct swap. The only difference is where the shifter cables hook up to the levers on the transmission. You'll have to use one of the levers from your old tranny. It's no big deal at all. One bolt with no modification or anything. You'll see what I mean when you have it in front of you."
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...h-gen-one.html
[Post #2]
Are you referring to the same thing that knight posted in the image? Is it 100% necessary? Thanks.
It is necessary but it's nothing at all to worry about. The mechanic will see it and handle it in less time than it would take to explain it to him. Even if you didn't have the old bracket it would be very easy to make the 6th gen piece work.
01-14-2010, 05:45 PM
#36
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I figure I should throw an update out there. I bought a 2005 transmission out of Tennessee and had it shipped into Georgia. The mechanic threw it in there in one day and charged me 350 in labor ... what a steal. It feels great. The difference in the final drive ratio is almost negligible, but does help in passing in 5th and 6th gear. Since the clutch only has 250 miles, I still can't test out the HLSD or full acceleration 
.
I want to thank Derrick for his timely answers and help. His knowledge was invaluable in making the right decision and providing the necessary information to make this happen smoothly and without headaches.
.I want to thank Derrick for his timely answers and help. His knowledge was invaluable in making the right decision and providing the necessary information to make this happen smoothly and without headaches.
01-14-2010, 07:30 PM
#37
Wow, thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help and I'm glad it all worked out for you.
You're going to love the LSD.
BTW, did you notice we joined the Org at almost the exact same time?
You're going to love the LSD.
BTW, did you notice we joined the Org at almost the exact same time?
01-15-2010, 07:09 AM
#38
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Haha ... funny coincidence. I joined because I got a 1995 GLE. I got tired of the automatic so I bought a 1998 SE (5SPD). That got rear-ended and rolled down an embankment. So then I landed this 2002 SE nightmare. I still have to replace the head unit, replace both fog lights, fix the front cigarette lighter, fix the "possessed sunroof" (as it is called here on the ORG, Engine drinks oil, ... shall I go on?
I want to sell this thing SOOOOO bad and get a BMW 335i. Unfortunately, my finances will be a mess because I am buying a condo in Buckhead (Atlanta) very soon.
I want to sell this thing SOOOOO bad and get a BMW 335i. Unfortunately, my finances will be a mess because I am buying a condo in Buckhead (Atlanta) very soon.
01-15-2010, 07:38 AM
#39
Cool. I had a 95 SE 5-speed for a while and loved it. I didn't join the Org until I picked up the 02 when it was traded in at the dealership where I sold cars. I wasn't looking to trade but when I saw the car I just had to have it. I got a sweet deal of course.
That sucks that you've had so many problems with it. I got really lucky with mine. I've had it for over 5 years with almost no issues. I had the 3rd gear crunch but I could have lived with it. My head unit sucks too.
BTW, I know where there are a set off foglights in the local u-pull it yard. They'd be cheap if you want me to pull and test them for you. I'm out there all the time for work.
That sucks that you've had so many problems with it. I got really lucky with mine. I've had it for over 5 years with almost no issues. I had the 3rd gear crunch but I could have lived with it. My head unit sucks too.
BTW, I know where there are a set off foglights in the local u-pull it yard. They'd be cheap if you want me to pull and test them for you. I'm out there all the time for work.