Possible part out....
02-02-2012, 05:10 PM
#1
Possible part out....
Well, my car has ran into some issues and I discovered a very troubling cause today which is now got me seriously thinking about what to do next.
Now I just had this motor built for me by a local mechanic that was refered to me by another individual and looks like I may have got shafted on the build.
The motor has only been in the car for a little over three months and just recently I ran into an issue with it driving home from work one day.
Now since its been running I really havent gotten on it at all. The hardest it was pushed was when I got it tuned. Other then that Ive just been driving it back and forth from work, and not everyday at that.
So on the way home from work one day the car begun to hesitate and jerk when i gave it gas, it then eventually just stalled out and I could not get it to start up again so I had it towed home.
Once I got it home I tried to start it up again with no luck, I eventually killed the starter. When cranking it I could smell a crap load of fuel, so I pulled the plugs and they were soaked, swapped them out and replaced the starter and after a lot of cranking it did start up but ran really rough and was smoking really bad, also it was spitting out fuel from the exhaust tip.
So the car sat for a while cause I just didnt have any time to really work on it, today I had off so I removed the injectors and inspected their O rings and found two that needed the smaller O rings replaced so I ended up replacing all six small and large O rings. With that done I thought awesome, and I figured that would correct the problem and reassembled everything, changed the oil and went to crank the car again.
Now after a lot of cranking the car did start up once again, but it still ran very rough though but I didnt smell all the fuel anymore so I figured I would just keep it running long enough to burn off all the excess fuel. It never smoothed out so I left off the gas and it died off.
So once it stalled out I walked to the back of the car to see how much fuel was spit out through the muffler and still saw quite a trail, but also found something else that I wasnt expecting. I found a few pieces of metal laying on the ground in the puddle of fuel and upon closer inspection the pieces of metal turned out to be the remains of a valve, exhaust valve Im assuming.
I never wouldve thought that it couldve made it all the way down and out the muffler but it did.
So, at this point Im just not sure what to do with this car. I just dropped a good chunk of change for the rebuild, which was supposed to be a complete rebuild with everything new and now this.
I will be contacting the builder tomorrow but Im sure he will deny that the failure was due to his assembly, so Im sure I will need to take him to court. Having him do the repair or rebuil is out of the question. All I want from him is my money back.
If I win, I may put that money back into having either the motor repaired, another rebuild or just possibly may cut my losses and do a part out and move onto something else. I really hate to let the car go just like that, more so since I didnt even really get to enjoy the newly built motor. I really wouldve liked to beat on it some and truly enjoy the new power it was making. If I do get rid of it, another option would be to buy another cheap VQ, drop it in and sell it as a whole, although Im sure I wont get much for the car.
Now from what I gather, there are a few things that couldve caused the failure, cheap parts, incorrect install but does anyone think that using the rev up cams and cam adapter have any role in this as well? Any other thoughts on what couldve been the causing factor?
Its crazy cause the car has been running really well up to this point.
Here are pics of the valve I found....
This is where I found it sitting....
Now I just had this motor built for me by a local mechanic that was refered to me by another individual and looks like I may have got shafted on the build.
The motor has only been in the car for a little over three months and just recently I ran into an issue with it driving home from work one day.
Now since its been running I really havent gotten on it at all. The hardest it was pushed was when I got it tuned. Other then that Ive just been driving it back and forth from work, and not everyday at that.
So on the way home from work one day the car begun to hesitate and jerk when i gave it gas, it then eventually just stalled out and I could not get it to start up again so I had it towed home.
Once I got it home I tried to start it up again with no luck, I eventually killed the starter. When cranking it I could smell a crap load of fuel, so I pulled the plugs and they were soaked, swapped them out and replaced the starter and after a lot of cranking it did start up but ran really rough and was smoking really bad, also it was spitting out fuel from the exhaust tip.
So the car sat for a while cause I just didnt have any time to really work on it, today I had off so I removed the injectors and inspected their O rings and found two that needed the smaller O rings replaced so I ended up replacing all six small and large O rings. With that done I thought awesome, and I figured that would correct the problem and reassembled everything, changed the oil and went to crank the car again.
Now after a lot of cranking the car did start up once again, but it still ran very rough though but I didnt smell all the fuel anymore so I figured I would just keep it running long enough to burn off all the excess fuel. It never smoothed out so I left off the gas and it died off.
So once it stalled out I walked to the back of the car to see how much fuel was spit out through the muffler and still saw quite a trail, but also found something else that I wasnt expecting. I found a few pieces of metal laying on the ground in the puddle of fuel and upon closer inspection the pieces of metal turned out to be the remains of a valve, exhaust valve Im assuming.
I never wouldve thought that it couldve made it all the way down and out the muffler but it did.
So, at this point Im just not sure what to do with this car. I just dropped a good chunk of change for the rebuild, which was supposed to be a complete rebuild with everything new and now this.
I will be contacting the builder tomorrow but Im sure he will deny that the failure was due to his assembly, so Im sure I will need to take him to court. Having him do the repair or rebuil is out of the question. All I want from him is my money back.
If I win, I may put that money back into having either the motor repaired, another rebuild or just possibly may cut my losses and do a part out and move onto something else. I really hate to let the car go just like that, more so since I didnt even really get to enjoy the newly built motor. I really wouldve liked to beat on it some and truly enjoy the new power it was making. If I do get rid of it, another option would be to buy another cheap VQ, drop it in and sell it as a whole, although Im sure I wont get much for the car.
Now from what I gather, there are a few things that couldve caused the failure, cheap parts, incorrect install but does anyone think that using the rev up cams and cam adapter have any role in this as well? Any other thoughts on what couldve been the causing factor?
Its crazy cause the car has been running really well up to this point.
Here are pics of the valve I found....
This is where I found it sitting....
02-02-2012, 06:17 PM
#4
02-02-2012, 06:34 PM
#6
That's what I was thinking, either that or the lash was set incorrectly? I've never heard of this happening in a VQ either, nor have I ever heard of a valve making its way all the way through the exhaust.
02-02-2012, 06:36 PM
#7
wow, damn man that ****en sucks.
If it were rev up cams and their adapters i would have found that out a long time ago. I beat, i mean i BEAT on my car before i took it down for its turbo build, and this was untuned. Never give me any trouble. I think the timing was most likely off or the cam adapter broke or was installed incorrectly. I have had to test spin my motor to make sure the cam adapter and was seated correctly and spinning. I had a bizarre incident where the cam didnt spin with the rest of the motor and i had to take it apart and reinstall.
That valve definitely got struck by the piston. Which would lead me to believe the exhuast cam adapter was not installed correctly.
If it were rev up cams and their adapters i would have found that out a long time ago. I beat, i mean i BEAT on my car before i took it down for its turbo build, and this was untuned. Never give me any trouble. I think the timing was most likely off or the cam adapter broke or was installed incorrectly. I have had to test spin my motor to make sure the cam adapter and was seated correctly and spinning. I had a bizarre incident where the cam didnt spin with the rest of the motor and i had to take it apart and reinstall.
That valve definitely got struck by the piston. Which would lead me to believe the exhuast cam adapter was not installed correctly.
02-02-2012, 07:14 PM
#11
I honestly doubt he will want to, I know hes going to say it wasnt due to the assembly and that I must have been beating on the car so Im sure I will have to do a civil suit.
Sucks, Im tired of getting burned. My original motor had a blown head gasket so I picked up a cheap motor from an org memebr to run while I rebuilt the other motor but the motor I bought ended up having a spun bearing.Soooo I opted to do this build sooner then I wanted and now just 3 months later Im back to having a dead motor.
Thats good to hear, i didnt want to know that it was due to the cams/adapters and not the assembly.
Thanks man, Im hoping so too. A real close friend of mine has offered to rebuild it if I choose he also suggested throwing in another good used motor. IDK though. Im a bit torn at the moment.
That would be my worst case scenerio. If anything Id try to buy a vey cheap motor, drop it in as is and just sell the car as a whole if I did decide not to rebuild it.
Hard though, Ive had this car since 97 and wouldve loved to build a nice beast to play with until I was tired of it.
Sucks, Im tired of getting burned. My original motor had a blown head gasket so I picked up a cheap motor from an org memebr to run while I rebuilt the other motor but the motor I bought ended up having a spun bearing.Soooo I opted to do this build sooner then I wanted and now just 3 months later Im back to having a dead motor.
wow, damn man that ****en sucks.
If it were rev up cams and their adapters i would have found that out a long time ago. I beat, i mean i BEAT on my car before i took it down for its turbo build, and this was untuned. Never give me any trouble. I think the timing was most likely off or the cam adapter broke or was installed incorrectly. I have had to test spin my motor to make sure the cam adapter and was seated correctly and spinning. I had a bizarre incident where the cam didnt spin with the rest of the motor and i had to take it apart and reinstall.
That valve definitely got struck by the piston. Which would lead me to believe the exhuast cam adapter was not installed correctly.
If it were rev up cams and their adapters i would have found that out a long time ago. I beat, i mean i BEAT on my car before i took it down for its turbo build, and this was untuned. Never give me any trouble. I think the timing was most likely off or the cam adapter broke or was installed incorrectly. I have had to test spin my motor to make sure the cam adapter and was seated correctly and spinning. I had a bizarre incident where the cam didnt spin with the rest of the motor and i had to take it apart and reinstall.
That valve definitely got struck by the piston. Which would lead me to believe the exhuast cam adapter was not installed correctly.
Hard though, Ive had this car since 97 and wouldve loved to build a nice beast to play with until I was tired of it.
02-02-2012, 07:18 PM
#12
Thats not even an option for me, all I want from him is my cash back.
I should have known something liek this was going to happen. They guy orignally told me he could pull, rebuild and install the motor in two weeks, it took 3 months! Then when he called and said it was ready I got there, started it up and the rear main was leasking so he had to fix that. The next day I went to pick it up and drove it home, as soon as I pulled into my driveway the pulley on the power steering pump literally fell off and with it wobbling around it detroyed the splined shaft so I had to take it back once again to fix it.
Then, one week later the rear valve cover began leaking like crazy cause he didnt silicone the inner corners so he had to fix that also and now this.
Its been a total nightmare.
I should have known something liek this was going to happen. They guy orignally told me he could pull, rebuild and install the motor in two weeks, it took 3 months! Then when he called and said it was ready I got there, started it up and the rear main was leasking so he had to fix that. The next day I went to pick it up and drove it home, as soon as I pulled into my driveway the pulley on the power steering pump literally fell off and with it wobbling around it detroyed the splined shaft so I had to take it back once again to fix it.
Then, one week later the rear valve cover began leaking like crazy cause he didnt silicone the inner corners so he had to fix that also and now this.
Its been a total nightmare.
02-02-2012, 08:44 PM
#14
to me it sounds like the dowel pin failed and the cam and gear went out of alingment. Now wheter it was from the cam adapter or if the pin in the cam was just left out I can't tell.
Cam adapters have failed in the pass but again I can not confirm if it was from the cam bolt not being torqued correctly or the pin breaking.
One I can said is not sure if you got the adapters directly from stepenmax or 2nd hand but there are some copies floating around
only other thing I can think of is the wrist pin broken allowing the piston to hit the valve
Cam adapters have failed in the pass but again I can not confirm if it was from the cam bolt not being torqued correctly or the pin breaking.
One I can said is not sure if you got the adapters directly from stepenmax or 2nd hand but there are some copies floating around
only other thing I can think of is the wrist pin broken allowing the piston to hit the valve
Last edited by t6378tp; 02-02-2012 at 08:48 PM.
02-02-2012, 08:51 PM
#15
btw this really sucks, I've there been there and know the angry. Walk away for a few days and then make up your, I would just get a stock motor from the yard hopefully see it run before its pulled and put your cams in it and enjoy
02-02-2012, 09:33 PM
#17
The thing is trying to prove that it wasn't a freak accident and that the mechanic is liable. I would give the car a new heart because you would have to let it go for way less than you are expecting, better for you to drive and enjoy it because it has more value to you.
02-02-2012, 09:56 PM
#18
Wow man that really sucks hope everything work out for you man, got to say it would if you sell your max one of the prettiest car's on the org.. Good luck with everything and keep us posted..
02-02-2012, 10:43 PM
#19
Thats not even an option for me, all I want from him is my cash back.
I should have known something liek this was going to happen. They guy orignally told me he could pull, rebuild and install the motor in two weeks, it took 3 months! Then when he called and said it was ready I got there, started it up and the rear main was leasking so he had to fix that. The next day I went to pick it up and drove it home, as soon as I pulled into my driveway the pulley on the power steering pump literally fell off and with it wobbling around it detroyed the splined shaft so I had to take it back once again to fix it.
Then, one week later the rear valve cover began leaking like crazy cause he didnt silicone the inner corners so he had to fix that also and now this.
Its been a total nightmare.
I should have known something liek this was going to happen. They guy orignally told me he could pull, rebuild and install the motor in two weeks, it took 3 months! Then when he called and said it was ready I got there, started it up and the rear main was leasking so he had to fix that. The next day I went to pick it up and drove it home, as soon as I pulled into my driveway the pulley on the power steering pump literally fell off and with it wobbling around it detroyed the splined shaft so I had to take it back once again to fix it.
Then, one week later the rear valve cover began leaking like crazy cause he didnt silicone the inner corners so he had to fix that also and now this.
Its been a total nightmare.
02-03-2012, 08:23 AM
#21
to me it sounds like the dowel pin failed and the cam and gear went out of alingment. Now wheter it was from the cam adapter or if the pin in the cam was just left out I can't tell.
Cam adapters have failed in the pass but again I can not confirm if it was from the cam bolt not being torqued correctly or the pin breaking.
One I can said is not sure if you got the adapters directly from stepenmax or 2nd hand but there are some copies floating around
only other thing I can think of is the wrist pin broken allowing the piston to hit the valve
Cam adapters have failed in the pass but again I can not confirm if it was from the cam bolt not being torqued correctly or the pin breaking.
One I can said is not sure if you got the adapters directly from stepenmax or 2nd hand but there are some copies floating around
only other thing I can think of is the wrist pin broken allowing the piston to hit the valve
Last edited by Flava_24/7; 02-03-2012 at 08:37 AM.
02-03-2012, 08:24 AM
#22
Yup, sux for me. Not sure how long I will be down now.
I REALLY dont want to give up on this car just yet but my family and close friends all keep saying to let her go.
Now Ive spoken to the builder this morning and informed him of the situation, first thing he said "its a race engine, cannot warranty a race engine". I laughed and told him its not such a thing. He should know, he purchased the parts. Every part that went in is OEM.
Then he stated the cams I provided were for a race engine and I informed him nope, that they too are OEM and I provided the correct OEM valve springs to be used with those exact cams.
So then he said it must have been too much boost, and I reminded him that my setup was not new. Ive been boosted for years and never had issues like this. I reminded him that my previous motor had way more miles on it and took all the abuse I could throw at under boost and that a freshly built motor should be able to do the same, not give up after 3k miles. I even reminded him that he told me when he was done building the motor, it would be solid and not give me any problems.
So now hes saying that its definately something with the valve train and wants to know:
1. If one of the springs broke
2. How much more tesnsion the HR valve springs have over stock A32s
3. differences in the valves in the Z33 HR vs A32 (material type, size,etc.)
Looks like Im going to have to tear into it to see where the damage is. He is telling me that he will do what he can to make it right,. and that the machine shop assembled the heads so he will be speaking to them but would like to know the requested info before hand.
Anyone know the specific details in the differences between the valve springs and valves between the Z33 HR and Maxima?
Times like this is when Dave B was extremely helpful.
I REALLY dont want to give up on this car just yet but my family and close friends all keep saying to let her go.
Now Ive spoken to the builder this morning and informed him of the situation, first thing he said "its a race engine, cannot warranty a race engine". I laughed and told him its not such a thing. He should know, he purchased the parts. Every part that went in is OEM.
Then he stated the cams I provided were for a race engine and I informed him nope, that they too are OEM and I provided the correct OEM valve springs to be used with those exact cams.
So then he said it must have been too much boost, and I reminded him that my setup was not new. Ive been boosted for years and never had issues like this. I reminded him that my previous motor had way more miles on it and took all the abuse I could throw at under boost and that a freshly built motor should be able to do the same, not give up after 3k miles. I even reminded him that he told me when he was done building the motor, it would be solid and not give me any problems.
So now hes saying that its definately something with the valve train and wants to know:
1. If one of the springs broke
2. How much more tesnsion the HR valve springs have over stock A32s
3. differences in the valves in the Z33 HR vs A32 (material type, size,etc.)
Looks like Im going to have to tear into it to see where the damage is. He is telling me that he will do what he can to make it right,. and that the machine shop assembled the heads so he will be speaking to them but would like to know the requested info before hand.
Anyone know the specific details in the differences between the valve springs and valves between the Z33 HR and Maxima?
Times like this is when Dave B was extremely helpful.
Last edited by Flava_24/7; 02-03-2012 at 08:40 AM.
02-03-2012, 09:27 AM
#24
Yup, sux for me. Not sure how long I will be down now.
I REALLY dont want to give up on this car just yet but my family and close friends all keep saying to let her go.
Now Ive spoken to the builder this morning and informed him of the situation, first thing he said "its a race engine, cannot warranty a race engine". I laughed and told him its not such a thing. He should know, he purchased the parts. Every part that went in is OEM.
Then he stated the cams I provided were for a race engine and I informed him nope, that they too are OEM and I provided the correct OEM valve springs to be used with those exact cams.
So then he said it must have been too much boost, and I reminded him that my setup was not new. Ive been boosted for years and never had issues like this. I reminded him that my previous motor had way more miles on it and took all the abuse I could throw at under boost and that a freshly built motor should be able to do the same, not give up after 3k miles. I even reminded him that he told me when he was done building the motor, it would be solid and not give me any problems.
So now hes saying that its definately something with the valve train and wants to know:
1. If one of the springs broke
2. How much more tesnsion the HR valve springs have over stock A32s
3. differences in the valves in the Z33 HR vs A32 (material type, size,etc.)
Looks like Im going to have to tear into it to see where the damage is. He is telling me that he will do what he can to make it right,. and that the machine shop assembled the heads so he will be speaking to them but would like to know the requested info before hand.
Anyone know the specific details in the differences between the valve springs and valves between the Z33 HR and Maxima?
Times like this is when Dave B was extremely helpful.
I REALLY dont want to give up on this car just yet but my family and close friends all keep saying to let her go.
Now Ive spoken to the builder this morning and informed him of the situation, first thing he said "its a race engine, cannot warranty a race engine". I laughed and told him its not such a thing. He should know, he purchased the parts. Every part that went in is OEM.
Then he stated the cams I provided were for a race engine and I informed him nope, that they too are OEM and I provided the correct OEM valve springs to be used with those exact cams.
So then he said it must have been too much boost, and I reminded him that my setup was not new. Ive been boosted for years and never had issues like this. I reminded him that my previous motor had way more miles on it and took all the abuse I could throw at under boost and that a freshly built motor should be able to do the same, not give up after 3k miles. I even reminded him that he told me when he was done building the motor, it would be solid and not give me any problems.
So now hes saying that its definately something with the valve train and wants to know:
1. If one of the springs broke
2. How much more tesnsion the HR valve springs have over stock A32s
3. differences in the valves in the Z33 HR vs A32 (material type, size,etc.)
Looks like Im going to have to tear into it to see where the damage is. He is telling me that he will do what he can to make it right,. and that the machine shop assembled the heads so he will be speaking to them but would like to know the requested info before hand.
Anyone know the specific details in the differences between the valve springs and valves between the Z33 HR and Maxima?
Times like this is when Dave B was extremely helpful.
02-03-2012, 09:57 AM
#25
dont give up on your car because of this. a quick swap and its new again. but what you have to do is take motor apart and find out what really happened. i think cam adapters could of failed. you can start by taking off timing chain cover and valve cover and check the adapters
02-03-2012, 01:04 PM
#28
02-03-2012, 01:07 PM
#29
So I found the specs for the HR valve Springs, 113-127lbs @ 26.2mm
Anyone know the Specs for the A32 Valve springs?
Also, does anyone know if the differences in the Z33 HR valves vs the A32 valves such as material made of and etc.?
Anyone know the Specs for the A32 Valve springs?
Also, does anyone know if the differences in the Z33 HR valves vs the A32 valves such as material made of and etc.?
02-03-2012, 01:10 PM
#30
Thanks, I really dont want to but theres no way I can afford to shell out a few grand to do this all over again. It will all depend on what happens wit the builder.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
02-03-2012, 01:18 PM
#31
Thanks, I really dont want to but theres no way I can afford to shell out a few grand to do this all over again. It will all depend on what happens wit the builder.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
02-03-2012, 01:20 PM
#32
02-03-2012, 01:22 PM
#33
Thanks, I really dont want to but theres no way I can afford to shell out a few grand to do this all over again. It will all depend on what happens wit the builder.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
I guess if worst comes to worst I can buy a cheap 3.0 and drop it in and call it a day and be boosted again.
02-03-2012, 01:26 PM
#34
If you have the time you should really consider putting the engine together yourself, it will save you a ton of money and you will know it's done right. There is tons of good info. in the all motor secton on engine assembly. If you were closer to VA I would be more than happy to help you.
02-03-2012, 01:29 PM
#35
If you have the time you should really consider putting the engine together yourself, it will save you a ton of money and you will know it's done right. There is tons of good info. in the all motor secton on engine assembly. If you were closer to VA I would be more than happy to help you.
Just if you do make sure to seal the damn timing cover correctly, because that can be a headache. But its not as bad as most people thing it is and i believe your block atleast is salvageable. As long as you are not porting etc having headwork done is not expensive.
02-03-2012, 01:44 PM
#36
If you have the time you should really consider putting the engine together yourself, it will save you a ton of money and you will know it's done right. There is tons of good info. in the all motor secton on engine assembly. If you were closer to VA I would be more than happy to help you.
This.
Just if you do make sure to seal the damn timing cover correctly, because that can be a headache. But its not as bad as most people thing it is and i believe your block atleast is salvageable. As long as you are not porting etc having headwork done is not expensive.
Just if you do make sure to seal the damn timing cover correctly, because that can be a headache. But its not as bad as most people thing it is and i believe your block atleast is salvageable. As long as you are not porting etc having headwork done is not expensive.
02-03-2012, 01:56 PM
#38
02-03-2012, 01:59 PM
#39
[QUOTE=Flava_24/7;8350914]I have the time, just not the space. i dont have a garage, it was converted to a game room before I bought my house. A buddy of mine has offered to rebuild it for me if I want to go that route. Hes a mechanic for Infinity and been there for at least 5 years, before that he was at Nissan so he knows the Maxima vey well. He is just unfamiliar with all the hybrid setup Org members are doing nowdays LOL
QUOTE]
That's nice that you have a friend to help. Tell him it's just like assembling any other VQ. Since you are using different cams just remind him to re check the lash once the cams are installed. I was able to swap a bunch of mine around to get with in spec, and only had to buy two new. Once that is done then getting the timing set correctly is the last big hurdle, and it is not as scary as you probably think...and prime your main tensioner before putting the outer timing chain cover on....that's all the advice I have for now.
QUOTE]
That's nice that you have a friend to help. Tell him it's just like assembling any other VQ. Since you are using different cams just remind him to re check the lash once the cams are installed. I was able to swap a bunch of mine around to get with in spec, and only had to buy two new. Once that is done then getting the timing set correctly is the last big hurdle, and it is not as scary as you probably think...and prime your main tensioner before putting the outer timing chain cover on....that's all the advice I have for now.