brusk

iTrader: (1)

Looking for a good wideband controller and datalogger. I have a few friends cars to fine tune the AFR's on and I've got a few turbo cars coming up I want to fine tune the turbo kits after the install. None of which require putting up the kind of money to goto a dyno. I researched these last year before I had money to blow and can't remember which ones I thought were nice. I know a few I saw sounded like you could hook them up to the factory computers with the low voltage output and by doing this you could hook up the wideband in the factory place and have it datalog while you drive. Options? experience? thanks.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Check out this link, very informative.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=550366

I'm personally using an Innovate Motorsports LC-1 and like it a lot.

And this one too, lots of good discussion here.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=553931

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I'd say the LC1 is the most popular. Personally I have a PLX SM-AFR, prior to that I had a PLX R-500, prior to that an Innovate LM1. For tuning multiple cars where you'll need to install then remove the unit quickly, the PLX LM1 seems like a logical choice, I'm not sure if the LC1 plugs into a cigarette lighter like the LM1 or not. Do be wary though, I owned an Innovate LM1 and the unit physically failed on me - the power cord adapter plug on the unit broke off from the circuit board because the design was absolutely asinine in that the only supports for that plug were the tiny soldered connectors that connected the plug to the circuit board. This was something that was supposed to be designed with portability in mind. This occurred within about 2 weeks of ownership, having only removed the unit from the plug on probably 5-8 occasions. This rendered the unit broken and useless. A fix was attempted by an extremely skilled solderer (who works at Motorola and does soldering on their circuit boards for a living). Within a few more days, it had failed again. I didn't bother trying to fix it after that, I was done with Innovate and I moved on to a permanent install PLX for my car.

So, do be wary of that sort of situation. I've read many many reports of other Innovate widebands failing prematurely as well, both physically or by just ceasing to function and giving error messages - but of course we all hear tons of horror stories on the internet so take from that what you will. Many of those owners said that their systems were installed by well known shops however, not self installed, so that's something. If you go with an LM1 - I'd say buy it from a retailer you can go to in person and check how solid the connectors on the unit are - the unit I had was noticeably weak from the day I got it, and as such I was very careful with that plug, nevertheless, within 2 weeks it had broken on me. Had someone not noticed the thing was loose failure would probably have occurred within 3 days, it was that bad.

So basically Innovate left a very bad taste in my mouth for their workmanship which is obviously a consideration for someone looking for portability. I can't really recommend any of the PLX units which I like for portable use though as they are designed for permanent install. you could easily solder a cigarette lighter adapter onto the power wire if you wished I suppose but that may be further than you're willing to go.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I never had any problems (except one, read on) with my LM-1, but I had it permanently installed in my car, so I wasn't frequently plugging and unplugging it. It always worked flawlessly until the O2 sensor gave out somewhat prematurely (I thought). I bought a new sensor and didn't had any further problems.

QnzMax

iTrader: (14)

I'm looking to buy an LC-1 and I've done some research on the unit. So the gauge kit on their website comes with the XD-16 gauge and an LC-1. Now can I just purchase a different gauge instead of spending an extra $200 for theirs?

absoundlab

lc-1

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

You can buy their DB gauges (~$89 I think), or their needle gauges and save the price of the XD-16.

For those of you who might be a bit confused, the LC-1 is the "wideband in a wire" or something like that. It doesn't log or display anything, but it has enough built into the "wire" to output a usable signal to a number of their other products, such as gages and more advanced tuning components. This makes the LC-1 pretty popular because you can "daisy-chain" to the other components to expand/switch-up your setup as you progress.

QnzMax

iTrader: (14)

So the LC-1 unit does not data-log? Basically I'm looking for the cheapest way to get an Innovate WB that can data-log.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

You're looking at the LM-1 or a laptop then.
They also have more advanced equipment, but I'm not familiar with it, and it gets expensive.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

The lc-1 will data log.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

The LC-1 Will Not Datalog.

You need to connect the "serial out" of the LC-1 to a Laptop or Datalogger to record the data.

Read the manuals.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Yea thats how you data log sir. But to say it doesnt is incorrect. 90% of widebands need laptop to log. But there are widebands that dont log at all i.e the aem uego. Thats like saying my zt-2 doesnt data log.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

My comment was directed toward "QnzMax", who wanted to know how he could record data while using an Innovate product.

I basically told him that if you want to datalog On The Unit, then you are looking at the LM-1, if you want to record with a laptop or datalogger, then the LC-1 is fine (via the serial output).

Our conversation actually continued outside of the thread, so I apologize if I mis-lead anyone here. My comments were applicable to the Innovate line that QnzMax was questioning.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Alright. Just making sure. The only thing the lc-1 dosent do is plot rpm to a/f but you can get a converter for that also.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

The SSI-4 IIRC.

Proendo

Sorry to raise this thread again... but I did a search about lc-1 on here and it lead me to this.

I currently want to start tunning my car and dont have any dynos around.

I was thinking about picking up an LC-1 , SSI4 and perhaps an SAFC II.

One big question I have is about the LC-1 's mounting location. I know it should be upstream from any cats. With my 3rd gen altima (vq35de) I have stock headers -> stock cats -> race/y-pipe -> custom exhaust.

Is it even possible for me to weld in this LC-1 before the cats? Can I mount it in the y-pipe instead?

What happens to the LC-1 when its downstream from a the stock headers and integrated cats?

Thanks.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

Wouldn't the "integrated cats" be the pre-cats, while your main cat is downstream of the Y-pipe? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with Altima's)

Basically they give that warning, because the reaction with the catalyst can alter the AFR of the exhaust gas, therefore throwing off the reading a little.

This effect is not drastic, and if anything you will just show a little lean. If you tune this out, then you will actually be a little rich (Better than being lean).

If you think about it, a Lot of dyno's use "Tail Sniffers", so the effect of the cat is minute. I wouldn't worry about it. I forget how much that it can throw it off, but I don't think that it is significant.

You can Google the difference, sorry I don't have time right now, as I have an exam tomorrow. (Damn e-mail notifications....lol)

I hope this helps.

Proendo

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes the altima has integrated pre cats in the headers. Then it comes down to what normally would be the stock y-pipe with integrated cat. I have removed this stock y-pipe and installed a stillen y-pipe. I was going to stick the sensor bung there.

Sounds like I might still be able to do that with little change in the AFR if not just slightly showing lean. Google search showed from one page "posts here said .6 to .7 leaner post cat, my Dyno shop said aprx. .3 leaner post cat, they've run both a wide band pre cat and a tailpipe sniffer on the same car."

Also good point about the dynos using tail sniffers. I always wondered exactly how accurate that could be compared to something like I suggested. I guess I just figured they spent much $$$$$ on that sensor system and it was far superior.

Perhaps I will move forward with my purchases. There was only 1 other thing and that being the ability to data log.

Since the SAFC II has no log ability I have to figure something out.

I have heard of people just watching the LC-1 realtime either by laptop or gauge and then making adjustments based on what they thought was their RPM at the time.

I looked at the SSI4 from innovative which would allow me to data log 4 customizable inputs 0-5v. giving me the RPM and AFR at the same time.

I guess the question is could I get by with the LC-1 and SAFC II or will it make a drastic difference with the addition of the SSI4 data log?

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

Honestly, I'd go with the SSI-4.
If not, your graph's on the Laptop will show AFR vs time. (Not nice to look at)
The SSI-4 will output whatever you want, including AFR, RPM, TP, and potentially Boost if you have a 0-5V gauge (I think).
This is Very useful to tune with, anything else IMO is partially a guessing game.

Remember, I haven't installed my equipment yet, I've just done my research.
If someone else tells you different, it would be useful to do your research as well in order to make an educated judgment on the advice you receive.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I saw your thread on Nissan Club as well and briefly responded. Glad you found some info over here too.

IMO, if the LC-1 cannot log RPM (doesn't sound like it can on its own) then you should get the SSI4 if not I can't imagine how you're going to adjust the AFR w/o knowing where in the powerband you're changing the mix. I'm sure the other 3 inputs will come in handy too.

As for wideband vs. tail-pipe sniffer accuracy, see this post (can't remember where the full article is though):

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=147

As for your wideband sensor placement, I'm guessing that anywhere between the pre-cats and main cat will be fine, just as long as you are getting the readings on the collector from both banks, and not just one bank. The odds of one bank reading different from the other are low, but just to be safe I guess.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

Also, you have removed your Cat (With the factory Y) and the Pre-cats only function during warm-up, so the the affect on AFR will be even less when at operating temp.
The effect on AFR will vary with different cars & emission systems.

NewfoundlandDud

iTrader: (10)

+1 for that link (Good Info), and for the "both banks" comment.

I guess that we were both responding at the same time, so see my other posts for the rest of your questions....

mooseq30

F.A.S.T.
Fuel Air Spark Technology
Records about an hour of A/F and RPM on a map while driving!
for precision tuning u need the package that comes with the rpm module and if u want it does dual A/F reading and recording for both engine banks!