ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

I'm thinking about an oil cooler for my SCed Max. For the obvious reasons of having lower oil temps but especially since our engine oil runs through our blower, all the more reason to have lower oil temps, right?

I haven't decided on an oil cooler kit yet but it appears that most kits offer an oil filter adapter plate which goes between the oil filter and the engine with the in/out located in the adaptor plate. Example pic:



My question is this: since we are already tapping our oil for the SC (with the 'T' adaptor at the oil pan), could we not use the existing oil feed line for the oil cooler? I'm thinking oil pan/'T' adaptor --> inlet on the heat exchanger --> outlet on the heat exchanger --> inlet on the blower.

Would this be better than using an oil filter spacer or shall I just use a spacer?

Also, any recommendations for a nice/affordable oil cooler?

Thanks guys.

- Josh

matty

iTrader: (54)

The first thought that comes to mind is that the cooler would negatively effect oil pressure going into the blower.
You also have to think about the oil flow through the squirter (restrictor) into the blower. You really dont have ALL that much flow through your feed line into your blower so it may not even be a positive thing to cool that.
When you cool your oil through a cooler, thats like a -10AN line going into the heat exchanger and out of it. Its moves ALOT of oil at any given time.

-matt

mtrai760

iTrader: (19)

I would go with the sandwich adapter. Many of them have thermostats built in so that your oil maintains a proper temperature without too much cooling, since too cool of oil is bad for your engine as well.

maxlinegtr

iTrader: (3)

what do you guys think about the an idea of have the S/C or Turbo dumping the oil to the oil cooler then back to the motor itself?(drain back plate).

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, you guys are right. The lines on the oil cooler kits do look a lot larger in diameter than our little SC feedline. O.k., nevermind, I'll just go with the sandwhich adaptor.

Does anyone recommend a particular model? The Stillen oil cooler is $329! I found some others in the $150-$250 range.

Thanks, Josh

P.S. Maxline, how would that work???

i30krab

iTrader: (1)

Check out Perema-cool products. They are reasonably priced and have a lifetime guarantee. I bought one from summit racing and 3 years later the weld holding the hose connector to the cooler broke. I called summit and they gave me a choice of a new cooler or a credit.

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I second the Perma-Cool unit. I purchased the 450 model and I think it is too big of a cooler once I got it, but no problems. It was so large though I had to remove my front radiator support bar that has my hood latch...so had to install hood pins. A smaller unit would have likely kept me from having to go w/hood pins.

Either way, here is a link of where I found the Perma-cool unit the cheapest. I further recommend getting an inline thermostat. Not very expensive, and if your car is a daily/year round driver, you will need it.

http://www.performancecenter.com/?adid=freereport

Or here is a direct link to the list of kits. Don't forget to purchase the thermostat.
http://www.performancecenter.com/pro...ts&universal=0

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Great, thanks krab and Chris. I'll certainly consider the Perma-Cool. I'm just a little concerned Chris - at the website/link you recommended, it clearly says:
"NON-SPECIFIC FIT Please Note: This Product is not Make, Year, Model Specific."

Also, are you certain about the necessity of a thermostat? I can't see needing it here in southern California where the temp. never drops below freezing. I don't have a thermostat on my transmission cooler and I've never had problems. My SHO has an OEM oil cooler and I'm pretty sure it does not have a thermostat. Do you really feel it is necessary?

Thanks guys.

- Josh

P.S. What do you guys think about Flex A Lite and B&M?
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductL...pe=975&PTSet=A
http://www.autoanything.com/coolers/20A50680A1.aspx

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Necessity of thermostat I feel is relative to where you live. I reside in TN where it can be 90's in summer and daily in teens during winter. Given your yearly temps, no you likely don't need the thermostat.

The caption of the Perma-cool not being vehicle specific is because it is a universal kit. With the adaptor, it comes with several different "peices" that you choose from to fit your threads for your engine. The end. I would recommend using some black silicon gasket maker betweenthe engine and sandwich peice. Of course, if you have room, you can simply go with the relocation kit and move your filter to a more accessable location in the engine bay.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Every street driven car with a cooler should have a T-stat. Many of the crappy kits available do not have T-stats and thus their relative low prices. Only true track only cars should run unregulated coolers.

On a similar note. Most OE oil coolers are systems that utilize engine coolant to cool the oil. For example: Z's run a wierd little plate that looks like a sandwich adapter between the filter and the pan but is in fact a tiny liquid to liquid cooler.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Sorry to bring this thread back but I was trying to order tonight... but.... well.... I don't see where/how to order the thermostat? What am I missing?

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Well, since no one got back to me and I don't think a thermostat is that important for southern California anyway, I went ahead and ordered tonight. I bought the Perma-Cool part number 10189 from Performance Center like Chris and Krab recommended.



Jegs was the cheapest at $103 and they had free shipping but they had a $12 "handling" fee. By using Performance Center's 'Report a Lower Price' feature, they knocked off a whopping 70 cents from Jegs' price, but had no shipping nor handling, however they did charge tax (CA) unlike Jegs. Anyway, Performance Center's price was about $5 less than Jegs when it was all said and done.

I went with the Perma-Cool for several reasons. The recommendations here of course, the price was good, it comes with a lifetime warranty (all others come with 1 year) and the size/dimensions worked out well for me as I have an Air-Water heat exchanger, an auto trans cooler heat exchanger and now an oil cooler heat exchanger up front. It's getting tight.


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Just to be a nice guy and maybe help others when doing a search for key words "Oil Cooler" in the future, here's some of the options I found for oil coolers for our Maximas:

Jegs. Three Perma-Cool models to choose from . Good prices

Stillen. Looks like a very nice one. Very expensive. I contacted Stillen and it is discontinued for our cars. Still worth reading about, pretty informative.

Summit All I could find was an oil filter adapter, not a whole kit. Maybe I missed it? Perma-Cool adapter.

Kragen and Pep Boys Both offered two options by Flex-A-Lite. They seem o.k. but at 20" long, I had to rule them out.

Auto Anything They have two B&M oil coolers. I was pretty tempted to go with these, B&M was my second choice. The B&M name seems pretty reputable. They even have one with a fan which seems really cool (pun not intended). Basically the reason I didn't go with B&M is that they only have a 1 year warranty and their in/out fittings are on the top/bottom, I want side located fittings for my cramped set-up.

J.C. Whitney Many, many choices from Earl's and Derale. The Derale was the only cooler I ever saw that stated it had a thermostat built in. Good price too. But at 17" long, I couldn't do it. The dozens of choices from Earl's made my head spin so I gave up on Earl's. Besides, what sounds better "I have an Earl's oil cooler" or "I have a Perma-Cool oil cooler". The dual purpose trans and oil cooler by Derale is pretty sweet. For what it's worth, J.C. even offers oil relocation kits by Perma-Cool for us: here.

And last but not least: Performance Center They have oodles of choices and pretty good prices (but don't forget the 'Report a Lower Price' option, if you do find it cheaper elsewhere). They have two from B&M, a $650 Blitz cooler!, 4 Flex-A-Lite options (cheaper than Kragen/Pep Boys), and of course the 6 Perma-Cool options.



O.k., that took an hour out of my life, someone better benefit from it at some time in the future. If anyone else knows of some oil coolers or websites I missed, please feel free to add.


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secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

so how did this work out for you?

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

I don't understand your question. How did what work out for me?






November 20, 2007 - November 18, 2007 = 2 days.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

sorry......I meant how was the install, and how is the product performing?

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Considering he just ordered it on the 18th, there's no way he's received, installed it, and had a chance to see how it performs. In a week or two, I'm sure he'll report back on his findings/ease of install/build quality/tips etc.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

wish I looked at the date.........my bad


just out of curiosity, would I get accurate oil pressure readings from that sandwich adaptor? Meaning if I put a tee there to mount my oil pressure sending unit for my gauge? Wouldn't oil pressure read the same from that point as the point where the stock oil pressure sensor is?

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Wouldnt it be best to tap your oil pressure sending unit for that one?

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

so i would be able to tap into the stock oil pressure sending unit to read on the autometer electrical gauge? Thing is the way my oil tee fitting is setup for the SC i dont have room for the large sending unit from the autometer.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

How big is this unit? is there a way you remote mount it ?

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

its about the size of an axle nut.....I think im going to rig up a compression fitting with a copper tube to remote mount it.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

I thought maybe that's what you meant - so that's why I placed this:

"November 20, 2007 - November 18, 2007 = 2 days."




Don't worry, I'll let you guys know my opinion of the oil cooler. But it may be a while. 1.) I recently changed my oil and it takes me a while to drive 3,000-5,000 miles anyway. But 2.) I think I am due for an SC rebuild. I am getting oil collecting at the blower inlet. So I may not drive the car or drive the car lightly until I get a chance to yank the snail and send him in. But that may happen before I drive 3-5k miles and I can always do the oil cooler during the rebuild so actually it may not be too long from now. Either way, I'll report back. But I don't have an oil temp gauge so I won't be able to report any temp. reductions.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Not yet.... anyway.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

I'm not positive, but I would think putting a "T" there would yeild accurate readings. What I'm planning on doing is getting a sandwich adapter that has two ports, which will allow me to add oil pressure and oil temp gauges if I want to.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

My oil cooler showed up today. Well, o.k., yesterday as it is now after midnight.

Ordered on the 20th, shipped the 22nd, received the 30th.

It came packaged very nicely. A box within a box stuffed with paper.

I would take a picture of the contents for you guys but it basically looks exactly like the "stock" picture I already included before (and again below for convenience). Besides, I'm already in my P.J.s and everyone knows there's no way to take a picture of parts spread out on the floor without getting your feet in the picture - and I'd be too embarrassed for you guys to see my flannel P.J.s and slippers.

But seriously, it looks just like this picture with the following exceptions: It does not, I repeat does not come with the two, cute, little fuzzy penguins. It does come with a Perma-Cool sticker with a penguin on it. It comes with a 1-sided 8.5"x11" black and white set of installation instructions. It comes with a color Perma-Cool full product line catalogue. They even show the thermostat!! That's it. everything else, right down to the box itself is identical to the pic.




I just took off my blower tonight to send it in for a rebuild. So I should have a few week's down time. During that time I will install the oil cooler. I'll keep you guys updated on the install.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

^ well I changed my oil yesterday, and I was thinking about this unit and thought that the adaptor with those hose barbs if pointed forward wouldn't they hit the crank pulley? I guess you would have to angle it downwards

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

That's a good question, but no. I did a quick test fit and it can actually point directly toward the front of the car and clear the pulley.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Correction. My apologies. The in/out fittings on the sandwich adapter do need to point down a little, otherwise they would hit the crank pulley. I finished my install this weekend. If anyone cares, I can post pics, I took a lot.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Of course we want pictures!! Post a few up!

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Relax.

1.) I feel no one really cares too much about an oil cooler anyway.

2.) I thought it might be better served in a new thread? Outside of the SC forum?

3.) I just finished. I haven't even put my car back together. Relax Ozouf.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Pics or Ban! j/k

matty

iTrader: (54)

I care. I might wanna do this in the spring and I will be ordering your exact kit. Lets get some pictures up !!!!

ObsidianIce69

iTrader: (11)

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

O.k., guys, here are a some pics of the install. I probably should start a new thread so I don't want to spend too much time on this so, here is a Cliff's notes and some pics:

Total weight of used parts: 4lb 8oz (plus the weight of the increased oil volume)

Install time: Don't go by me. I'm notoriously slow. I'm a perfectionist. And I stop and think too much. lol About 8 hours.

Verdict/comments: I feel good about the product. I feel really good about the install. It fits and looks nice. Of course I can't drive the car until my supercharger comes back in from service. I am a little bummed about one thing: the OEM oil filter does not fit anymore. It's not the size of the filter nor the thread size/pitch, it the fact that the female threads of the OEM filter are too deep in the filter. The male threads of the sandwich adapter are too short. I happened to have a Fram lying around which worked fine (forget to take a pic but you get the idea). The hose supplied by Perma-Cool just made it with the mounting location and path I chose. I literally used 100% of the supplied hose. The in/out hose fittings of the sandwich adapter have to face down. Even then, I had to reverse and bend one of my Stillen-supplied adel clamps for the oil feed line. And I had to un-clip the little harness plug for the crank sensor (see pics).



Box:




Instructions: (I know you can't read this thumbnail but I'll put a link to my whole photobucket page below and there it will be legible. Only the left column of the instructions apply to us.)



Front mount heat exchanger: (About 7" h x 13" l)



The parts from the kit you do use: (in addition to the hose and heat exchanger)



This is the piece that makes this kit 'universal'. It comes with 4 choices. We use one of the four. It goes over your stock oil filter male threads.:

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

The parts from the kit not used:



Sandwich adapter with hose fittings and rubber O-Ring attached:




You'll need to unplug the little hose zip-tie from the crank sensor conduit and you'll need to flip around and bend your adel clamp:




Sandwich installed:




I put my oil cooler heat exchanger in the lower, right corner of the radiator since my water to air aftercooler h.e. is on the left and my trans cooler h.e. will go above the oil cooler h.e.:

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

The hose you see is from my aftercooler:




A pic with my future transmission cooler h.e. just for test fit purposes:




You'll need to unhook your radiator and push it forward because the heat exchanger tie straps will come out between the radiator and AC condenser. It's very tight and you will scrape your hands getting in there to put on the caps.




I wasn't happy with any openings from the front of the bumper area to the back so I made a hole. This is just to the right of the left foglight (when I say left I mean driver-side and right = passenger side):

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

I ran the hoses as cleanly as I could:



Be careful not to get slimed while working on your back under the car, hands occupied!




Finished product at the sandwich adapter. The filter is not on yet and neither are the splash panels:



Here is the link to the entire photobucket.

Let me know if you have any questions.

matty

iTrader: (54)

One question: How about all the oil that is left inside of the cooler during an Oil change ?? Do you need to remove of the feeds and drain it every time you do an oil change.

I think that extra dirty oil in the cooler would bother me. Is there a drain on the cooler ??

-matt

ObsidianIce69

iTrader: (11)

the oil cooler exit connection should be higher up on the car than the sandwich adapter I THINK. So it should flow out freely when you pop the hose fitting. THe pics are great Ptatohed! I can't remember if there's an oil cooler install write up. This should be stickied or added to the current one probably.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

That's a valid question. But I don't think I would worry about it. For 1.), I think during the typical oil change you only get 85% - 90% of your oil anyway. So now maybe that number will drop a percent or so, right? Have you ever removed your oil pan? There's another whole pint in there if you do! Also, have you ever let your oil drain for 2 days? You'll get another 8+ ounces! So, my point being, it's just a given that you'll never get all your oil during a typical oil change. - and - 2.) Just as your oil drains to the pan when the car sits, it will still do that too with the oil cooler/heat exchanger. The heat exchanger is higher than the oil pan so is should gravity feed back toward the filter/pan. Sure there might be a low point in the hose(s), but again, I think if you stay on top of your oil changes, there will be no problem.