Still trying to get Z32 MAF and Z32 Program to work on S/C
10-22-2005, 06:09 PM
#1
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Still trying to get Z32 MAF and Z32 Program to work on S/C
con't from thread - Here
OK - so I did some test today and tried to simplify it as much as possible.
First I put the manifold back together - all new gaskets everywhere. Started it up and the car still idled like crap ONLY when I put my hand over the BOV hole. If I took my hand off, it still idled like crap for 8-10 seconds - but then leveled off. When it is level - vacuum sits at about 18Hg. No leaks and running fine. I also went through the FSM and verified through FSM procedures that my EGRC Solenoid, IACV, EVAP Cansiter, and TPS are all working properly.
So what we did was decide to differentiate if the issue is the MAF or the ECU or what. Since the A32 ECU at idle uses relatively the same voltage range - we decided to try the Z32 ECU on the A32 MAF. Guess what - idles perfect with or without the BOV hole plugged. (My BOV is off while I test). It does fluctuate slightly with the charge piping plugged - but it's easily bearable.
So using a thread I saw from StevenMax - I removed the spring from the BOV and put a less tight spring in there. Now the BOV lets out a decent amount of air when at idle when attached - but it still stumbles - not quite as bad - but still not drivable until warmup.
So that proves that it's not the ECU - and is the MAF. Since I've tested this MAF on a Z and tested that Z's MAF on my car with the same results - that proves my MAF is not bad - just EXTREMEMLY sensitive to turbulence caused by the natural compressor surge at idle from the S/C <Turbos don't do this>.
one thing I noticed last year when testing on that Z was that if you remove the air filter on a Z it idles much like my car is idling right now - very sensitive MAF.
So I reclocked the blower (Something else I learned from good ole' Stephen) and started putting together plans for my 3" Intake piping. It really isn't going to be as hard as I thought. But since all the welding shops are closed until tomorrow and I need to buy 3" couplers - this is going to have to wait until next week.
One question - is there anyone out there that has gotten the Z32 MAF to work on the charged side with a 2.87" pulley AND with the stock Stillen piping? (I say 2.87" because the blower spins more the smaller the pulley, thereby causing more air - even at idle).
OK - so I did some test today and tried to simplify it as much as possible.
First I put the manifold back together - all new gaskets everywhere. Started it up and the car still idled like crap ONLY when I put my hand over the BOV hole. If I took my hand off, it still idled like crap for 8-10 seconds - but then leveled off. When it is level - vacuum sits at about 18Hg. No leaks and running fine. I also went through the FSM and verified through FSM procedures that my EGRC Solenoid, IACV, EVAP Cansiter, and TPS are all working properly.
So what we did was decide to differentiate if the issue is the MAF or the ECU or what. Since the A32 ECU at idle uses relatively the same voltage range - we decided to try the Z32 ECU on the A32 MAF. Guess what - idles perfect with or without the BOV hole plugged. (My BOV is off while I test). It does fluctuate slightly with the charge piping plugged - but it's easily bearable.
So using a thread I saw from StevenMax - I removed the spring from the BOV and put a less tight spring in there. Now the BOV lets out a decent amount of air when at idle when attached - but it still stumbles - not quite as bad - but still not drivable until warmup.
So that proves that it's not the ECU - and is the MAF. Since I've tested this MAF on a Z and tested that Z's MAF on my car with the same results - that proves my MAF is not bad - just EXTREMEMLY sensitive to turbulence caused by the natural compressor surge at idle from the S/C <Turbos don't do this>.
one thing I noticed last year when testing on that Z was that if you remove the air filter on a Z it idles much like my car is idling right now - very sensitive MAF.
So I reclocked the blower (Something else I learned from good ole' Stephen) and started putting together plans for my 3" Intake piping. It really isn't going to be as hard as I thought. But since all the welding shops are closed until tomorrow and I need to buy 3" couplers - this is going to have to wait until next week.
One question - is there anyone out there that has gotten the Z32 MAF to work on the charged side with a 2.87" pulley AND with the stock Stillen piping? (I say 2.87" because the blower spins more the smaller the pulley, thereby causing more air - even at idle).
10-23-2005, 06:27 AM
#2
i got it to work with the Z32 MAF, Z32 Program, 2.87 Pulley BUT 3 inch charge piping.
i was immediately getting some wicked noises above 6.5k. blew the motor a week later with the 2.87 pulley on. with that setup everything was perfectly fine up until 6.5k. when i put a new motor back in i put my 3.125 on and never had any problems.
p.s. that was also with 370cc injectors which were probably to blame and not the Z32 setup.
i was immediately getting some wicked noises above 6.5k. blew the motor a week later with the 2.87 pulley on. with that setup everything was perfectly fine up until 6.5k. when i put a new motor back in i put my 3.125 on and never had any problems.
p.s. that was also with 370cc injectors which were probably to blame and not the Z32 setup.
10-23-2005, 08:50 AM
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Thanks.
I was looking at it some more last night and thought about the fact that the 2.5" stillen piping has that transition from 2.5 -3" right befor the MAF. I wonder if that is causing turbulence right at the MAF at idle for me - and the reason people with 3" piping have it working is because there is no transition there?
Anyway - I'll be messing with it a little more today.
I was looking at it some more last night and thought about the fact that the 2.5" stillen piping has that transition from 2.5 -3" right befor the MAF. I wonder if that is causing turbulence right at the MAF at idle for me - and the reason people with 3" piping have it working is because there is no transition there?
Anyway - I'll be messing with it a little more today.
10-23-2005, 12:09 PM
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OK - next question:
Any of you with 3" piping + Z32 ECU + Z32 MAF get ANY kind of lumpy idle?
I test fitted some 3" piping this morning after clocking the blower up and putting a straight pipe from there to the MAF, using a very small bit of dryer hose to make the bend at the MAF. (This is only temporary - I would never drive around on the streets like this).
Car didn't stall out or buck!
But the idle is still pretty lumpy. Anyone else getting that?
I'm not 100% sure the car hadn't become slightly warm when I tested - so I'm going to wait 6 hours and start it again just to be sure of my results.
Looks like I'm going to have to make sure I keep it below 6500RPM until I get larger injectors.
Any of you with 3" piping + Z32 ECU + Z32 MAF get ANY kind of lumpy idle?
I test fitted some 3" piping this morning after clocking the blower up and putting a straight pipe from there to the MAF, using a very small bit of dryer hose to make the bend at the MAF. (This is only temporary - I would never drive around on the streets like this).
Car didn't stall out or buck!
But the idle is still pretty lumpy. Anyone else getting that?
I'm not 100% sure the car hadn't become slightly warm when I tested - so I'm going to wait 6 hours and start it again just to be sure of my results.
Looks like I'm going to have to make sure I keep it below 6500RPM until I get larger injectors.
10-23-2005, 04:35 PM
#6
no lumps here. everything was great up until 6.5k rpms.
i did notice that with the A32 MAF and A32 program the car felt a lot stronger. probably due to the weak timing setup on the Z32 MAF.
i did notice that with the A32 MAF and A32 program the car felt a lot stronger. probably due to the weak timing setup on the Z32 MAF.
10-23-2005, 06:03 PM
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Does your BOV leak air at idle?
I'm thinking that maybe the leftover compressor surge (lumpy idle) is from the fact that it is a pipe with no BOV on there right now. Nowhere for surge to release at idle.
What's your FP at idle on a cold start, BTW?
I'm thinking that maybe the leftover compressor surge (lumpy idle) is from the fact that it is a pipe with no BOV on there right now. Nowhere for surge to release at idle.
What's your FP at idle on a cold start, BTW?
10-23-2005, 06:40 PM
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I just went out and started it again.....
It doesn't buck or hesitate but until warmup the idle is still extremely lumpy. A/F on the LM-1 puts me at 17-19:1 A/F until warmup - where it settles at 14.7-15.0:1.
I thought the cold start program RICHENED at idle?
As soon as I tap the gas the A/F quickly drops to normal levels when it's doing this.
I worry that when it gets to be winter it will idle jsut as bad as before and buck and hesitate for 5 mins until it gets warm enough.
It doesn't buck or hesitate but until warmup the idle is still extremely lumpy. A/F on the LM-1 puts me at 17-19:1 A/F until warmup - where it settles at 14.7-15.0:1.
I thought the cold start program RICHENED at idle?
As soon as I tap the gas the A/F quickly drops to normal levels when it's doing this.
I worry that when it gets to be winter it will idle jsut as bad as before and buck and hesitate for 5 mins until it gets warm enough.
10-23-2005, 07:42 PM
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AHA! - Top bost in link below!
http://69.57.150.24/showthread.php?t...Z32+Rough+idle
Just tried it and the rough idle is smoother - but the car is still warm so I won't know for sure until morning.
I had the MAF harness facing up on mine. With the stock stillen Supercharger piping you have 2 choices - up or down - so I couldn't do this before.
http://69.57.150.24/showthread.php?t...Z32+Rough+idle
Just tried it and the rough idle is smoother - but the car is still warm so I won't know for sure until morning.
I had the MAF harness facing up on mine. With the stock stillen Supercharger piping you have 2 choices - up or down - so I couldn't do this before.
10-24-2005, 05:56 AM
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Tried it this morning on cold start again....
It's fixed! While the idle isn't perfect, at least when cold I can start it and the engine revs without issue (no bucking) and the idle isn't so bad the car stalls out or anything.
Turns out after a year all I had to do was turn the MAF 90 degrees!
So this is why the Z32 MAF doesn't work with the Stillen Charge Piping. It only allows the MAF to sit with the harness facing up or down - not at 90 degrees like it should.
It's fixed! While the idle isn't perfect, at least when cold I can start it and the engine revs without issue (no bucking) and the idle isn't so bad the car stalls out or anything.
Turns out after a year all I had to do was turn the MAF 90 degrees!
So this is why the Z32 MAF doesn't work with the Stillen Charge Piping. It only allows the MAF to sit with the harness facing up or down - not at 90 degrees like it should.
10-24-2005, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by iansw
Tried it this morning on cold start again....
It's fixed! While the idle isn't perfect, at least when cold I can start it and the engine revs without issue (no bucking) and the idle isn't so bad the car stalls out or anything.
Turns out after a year all I had to do was turn the MAF 90 degrees!
So this is why the Z32 MAF doesn't work with the Stillen Charge Piping. It only allows the MAF to sit with the harness facing up or down - not at 90 degrees like it should.
It's fixed! While the idle isn't perfect, at least when cold I can start it and the engine revs without issue (no bucking) and the idle isn't so bad the car stalls out or anything.
Turns out after a year all I had to do was turn the MAF 90 degrees!
So this is why the Z32 MAF doesn't work with the Stillen Charge Piping. It only allows the MAF to sit with the harness facing up or down - not at 90 degrees like it should.
What do you mean by 90 degrees...Is the connector facing the battary now or the ground still ??
I had this idea too and I made a huge thread about it and people lauphed at me...
-matt
10-24-2005, 08:12 AM
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I linked your thread 3 up matty - I wish I saw that thread 6 months ago.
Now facing the battery - with the Stillen piping this isn't possible.
I've got a 2.75" - 3" 90 degree adapter for blower and a 45 degree 3" silicone bend on the way - as soon as I get those in and the BOV welded onto the new piping - I should be golden.
Except that while working on it I noticed an exhaust leak AND my VLSD axle on the driver's side is popping out due to a bad circlip.
It never ends....
Now facing the battery - with the Stillen piping this isn't possible.
I've got a 2.75" - 3" 90 degree adapter for blower and a 45 degree 3" silicone bend on the way - as soon as I get those in and the BOV welded onto the new piping - I should be golden.
Except that while working on it I noticed an exhaust leak AND my VLSD axle on the driver's side is popping out due to a bad circlip.
It never ends....
10-24-2005, 03:30 PM
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So your idle is dead on perfect all the time?
Doesn't make any sense to me either - especially since my idle is still loopy.
But as long as I'm not bucking/stumbling - I can live with it.
As soon as I trun it pointing up like it was - it bucks/stumbles.
Doesn't make any sense to me either - especially since my idle is still loopy.
But as long as I'm not bucking/stumbling - I can live with it.
As soon as I trun it pointing up like it was - it bucks/stumbles.
10-24-2005, 03:41 PM
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Well - Matty and I had fairly similar problems...both using 95 ECUs on antoehr model year - both getting EVAP code (1005) and both solved the issue by both having 3" piping and turning the MAF sensor. 
You using stock piping or 3"?
My idle may still be lumpy because that exhaust leak is up front and might be causing cavitation on the cylinders - I'm going to try to fix that tonight when I get home then we'll see if that helps.
You using stock piping or 3"?
My idle may still be lumpy because that exhaust leak is up front and might be causing cavitation on the cylinders - I'm going to try to fix that tonight when I get home then we'll see if that helps.
10-24-2005, 07:01 PM
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So it's a little chilly outside tonight and the car has been sitting for a good 15 hours wihtout being started.
This time I sat and watched the RPMs on my AFC all the way until warmup.
When you first start the car it revs to about 1600 RPM and drops fast to about 1000. Then within a second it goes to 1400 and very slowly drops to about 750 fully warm.
I did notice on the LM-1 that the car whenever it makes a significant drop in idle during warmup goes from about 15.5:1 to 19:1. Then within 3-4 seconds goes back to 15.5:1. Blipping the gas quickly drops it to about 14:1.
When fully warm it settles right on 14.7:1.
Perfect.
What sucks however is my silicone couplers won't be here until NEXT Monday. So I won't get to drive it around until then. Was hoping I'd have some time on the weekend.....oh well. I've waited almost a year - I can wait another week.
I DID drive it around the block just to see if it bucked under load at all - but without any boost. No bucking, smooth as silk.
This time I sat and watched the RPMs on my AFC all the way until warmup.
When you first start the car it revs to about 1600 RPM and drops fast to about 1000. Then within a second it goes to 1400 and very slowly drops to about 750 fully warm.
I did notice on the LM-1 that the car whenever it makes a significant drop in idle during warmup goes from about 15.5:1 to 19:1. Then within 3-4 seconds goes back to 15.5:1. Blipping the gas quickly drops it to about 14:1.
When fully warm it settles right on 14.7:1.
Perfect.
What sucks however is my silicone couplers won't be here until NEXT Monday. So I won't get to drive it around until then. Was hoping I'd have some time on the weekend.....oh well. I've waited almost a year - I can wait another week.
I DID drive it around the block just to see if it bucked under load at all - but without any boost. No bucking, smooth as silk.
10-25-2005, 08:43 AM
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OH yeah - to clarify the post above - except for compressor surge from the blower (no BOV letting any air out right now at idle) - my idle is now perfect.
I assume that Vortech BOV of yours blows quite a bit at idle - correct Requin?
I assume that Vortech BOV of yours blows quite a bit at idle - correct Requin?
10-25-2005, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by iansw
OH yeah - to clarify the post above - except for compressor surge from the blower (no BOV letting any air out right now at idle) - my idle is now perfect.
I assume that Vortech BOV of yours blows quite a bit at idle - correct Requin?
I assume that Vortech BOV of yours blows quite a bit at idle - correct Requin?
-matt
10-25-2005, 03:11 PM
#24
Originally Posted by iansw
So it's a little chilly outside tonight and the car has been sitting for a good 15 hours wihtout being started.
This time I sat and watched the RPMs on my AFC all the way until warmup.
When you first start the car it revs to about 1600 RPM and drops fast to about 1000. Then within a second it goes to 1400 and very slowly drops to about 750 fully warm.
I did notice on the LM-1 that the car whenever it makes a significant drop in idle during warmup goes from about 15.5:1 to 19:1. Then within 3-4 seconds goes back to 15.5:1. Blipping the gas quickly drops it to about 14:1.
When fully warm it settles right on 14.7:1.
Perfect.
What sucks however is my silicone couplers won't be here until NEXT Monday. So I won't get to drive it around until then. Was hoping I'd have some time on the weekend.....oh well. I've waited almost a year - I can wait another week.
I DID drive it around the block just to see if it bucked under load at all - but without any boost. No bucking, smooth as silk.
This time I sat and watched the RPMs on my AFC all the way until warmup.
When you first start the car it revs to about 1600 RPM and drops fast to about 1000. Then within a second it goes to 1400 and very slowly drops to about 750 fully warm.
I did notice on the LM-1 that the car whenever it makes a significant drop in idle during warmup goes from about 15.5:1 to 19:1. Then within 3-4 seconds goes back to 15.5:1. Blipping the gas quickly drops it to about 14:1.
When fully warm it settles right on 14.7:1.
Perfect.
What sucks however is my silicone couplers won't be here until NEXT Monday. So I won't get to drive it around until then. Was hoping I'd have some time on the weekend.....oh well. I've waited almost a year - I can wait another week.
I DID drive it around the block just to see if it bucked under load at all - but without any boost. No bucking, smooth as silk.
so you put on 3 inch piping and it works now?
Good to know you got it figured out.....
10-25-2005, 05:41 PM
#25
I had a bad idle issue for months. I cleaned everything. Finally I took of the intake manifold, throttle body and the plenum. I replaced the plenum with a fed spec one ( without butterfly valves like in the 99 cali spec) and my idle issue was gone! Now Im getting a very sluggish feeling/ cant even break traction and am getting a gohst knock sensor code. I am hoping the ks will fix the issue..
I also get serious bucking when the engine is cold yet at operating temps ( right after it warms up and for a mile or 2. Would this have anything to do with the ks? Im not getting any other codes. I do have the a32 maf with stock ecu and fmu...
I also get serious bucking when the engine is cold yet at operating temps ( right after it warms up and for a mile or 2. Would this have anything to do with the ks? Im not getting any other codes. I do have the a32 maf with stock ecu and fmu...
10-26-2005, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bags
so you put on 3 inch piping and it works now?
Good to know you got it figured out.....
Good to know you got it figured out.....
I rotated the MAF 90 degrees (so square box on MAF cylinder is on top and harness faces towards battery) - and then it was fixed.
vortechpower - What's your vacuum at idle?
10-26-2005, 12:49 PM
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I would almost agree - but not rotating the MAF is working fine for Requin and possibly others.
So far this has only proven true for Matty and myself.
Asking StephenMax to rotate his MAF 90 degrees and check cold start condition would be the final proof I think.
Also possible someone could use stock Stillen piping if they cut then re-attached the MAF Flange.
So far this has only proven true for Matty and myself.
Asking StephenMax to rotate his MAF 90 degrees and check cold start condition would be the final proof I think.
Also possible someone could use stock Stillen piping if they cut then re-attached the MAF Flange.
10-29-2005, 10:39 PM
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Since I'm using a preset length steel pipe I bought 2 of - I went today and got both BOV's flanges welded - one on each pipe.
So if the HKS doesn't do well due to compressor surge, I can just switch pipes and go with the Blitz.
Also fixed axle and tightened area where exhaust leak is today.
All set whenever my couplers show up to take it for a drive.....I get one of the ocuplers Monday but I'm not hearing anything back on shipping from the other place I bought my second coupler from.
As soon as I do get them I'll be starting it up and taking it for some runs ASAP.
So if the HKS doesn't do well due to compressor surge, I can just switch pipes and go with the Blitz.
Also fixed axle and tightened area where exhaust leak is today.
All set whenever my couplers show up to take it for a drive.....I get one of the ocuplers Monday but I'm not hearing anything back on shipping from the other place I bought my second coupler from.
As soon as I do get them I'll be starting it up and taking it for some runs ASAP.
11-05-2005, 04:01 PM
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OK - got it running this morning.....
First start (it's been sitting for a week) the car started then died immediately.
Seconds start - I blipped the gas right after start and idle leveled off at 1400 (cold start) - it idles BETTER than it did with the A32 setup!
Couldn't boost a lot because it's pouring rain outside. I did take it to 7200RPM once in a spin-out - and heard no engine noises - but that doesn't mean much as far as injector load because there was no load on the engine.
But the good news is - no bad idle - no bucking - just power!
Tried both HKS and Blitz BOV's - the HKS SSQV wide open still allows too much compressor surge at idle - I'll probably stick with the Blitz and maybe even put a weaker spring in it.
sticky this biatch!
First start (it's been sitting for a week) the car started then died immediately.
Seconds start - I blipped the gas right after start and idle leveled off at 1400 (cold start) - it idles BETTER than it did with the A32 setup!
Couldn't boost a lot because it's pouring rain outside. I did take it to 7200RPM once in a spin-out - and heard no engine noises - but that doesn't mean much as far as injector load because there was no load on the engine.
But the good news is - no bad idle - no bucking - just power!
Tried both HKS and Blitz BOV's - the HKS SSQV wide open still allows too much compressor surge at idle - I'll probably stick with the Blitz and maybe even put a weaker spring in it.
sticky this biatch!
11-09-2005, 06:41 PM
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Finally the roads are dry...damned Seattle rain.
Took it for a spin....
The power is now so perfect...linear...smooth.
No weird engine noises or anything....I was pulling too hard to be able to take my eyes off the road and look at the LM-1....but it feels great! (Wish I thought to hit record).
Took it for a spin....
The power is now so perfect...linear...smooth.
No weird engine noises or anything....I was pulling too hard to be able to take my eyes off the road and look at the LM-1....but it feels great! (Wish I thought to hit record).
11-09-2005, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by iansw
Finally the roads are dry...damned Seattle rain.
Took it for a spin....
The power is now so perfect...linear...smooth.
No weird engine noises or anything....I was pulling too hard to be able to take my eyes off the road and look at the LM-1....but it feels great! (Wish I thought to hit record).
Took it for a spin....
The power is now so perfect...linear...smooth.
No weird engine noises or anything....I was pulling too hard to be able to take my eyes off the road and look at the LM-1....but it feels great! (Wish I thought to hit record).
Ive decided to go with the Emanage Ultimate. My WB will be going in at the end of the week with my 3" full exhaust
-matt
11-09-2005, 09:10 PM
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List of changes:
1) Turned MAF 90 degrees <----this is the main thing apparently that fixed it.
2) 3" piping <------ this didn't really fix anything - just made it slightly better <until I did #1 - then it worked great>
3) Switched from HKS to Blitz BOV. <----- HKS idles fine but I get compressor surge when coming down from boost. Unrelated to idle issue.
4) Removed manifold - replaced all gaskets <--- this did nothing - actually, my vacuum reads 1Hg less now.
That's it.
When cold out it still stutters a bit - but is drivable and isn't stalling/bucking/dying like it was....I just am nice to it until it warms up - which is no different from before anyway (I always keep it < 2500RPM until full warmup)
1) Turned MAF 90 degrees <----this is the main thing apparently that fixed it.
2) 3" piping <------ this didn't really fix anything - just made it slightly better <until I did #1 - then it worked great>
3) Switched from HKS to Blitz BOV. <----- HKS idles fine but I get compressor surge when coming down from boost. Unrelated to idle issue.
4) Removed manifold - replaced all gaskets <--- this did nothing - actually, my vacuum reads 1Hg less now.
That's it.
When cold out it still stutters a bit - but is drivable and isn't stalling/bucking/dying like it was....I just am nice to it until it warms up - which is no different from before anyway (I always keep it < 2500RPM until full warmup)
11-09-2005, 09:12 PM
#39
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To tell you the truth, my car acted the same way when I had my MAF turned...I was boggled why it was surrging and sputtering and stalling...just running really poor. I turned the MAF just for shi*s and Giggles and it really did wonders
-matt
-matt
11-09-2005, 09:14 PM
#40
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I get those dead spots too - but I consider them not a big deal as they only last 90 seconds or so until the car warms a tiny bit.
I know about you turning the MAF matty - I found your post about it and that's what inspired me to try it.
I know about you turning the MAF matty - I found your post about it and that's what inspired me to try it.