HO alternator???????????????
03-22-2004, 06:37 AM
#1
HO alternator???????????????
I have a kicker 1200.1 for 2-12" kickers and a sony amp for the little' ones and a stinger digital top 1 farad cap and a optima battery. And my charging system doesn't keep up for sh*t!! I have a 99'se 47,000 miles. Does anyone have a ho alternator or know of anyone that does for there max? or know anyone that makes them for them? I know that the factory alt is like 115 amps and should keep up pretty good but? I have had a toyota p/u that had 60 amp and kept up better? Thanks
03-22-2004, 06:41 AM
#2
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Stinger 100,000 Farad? Thats definately a new one to me. Theyve never made any that high....
To answer your question though, try upgrading all of your ground wires first. Alt,Bat,etc...all under the hood. Use min 4awg and it *should* help.
--Don
To answer your question though, try upgrading all of your ground wires first. Alt,Bat,etc...all under the hood. Use min 4awg and it *should* help.
--Don
03-22-2004, 06:46 AM
#3
Originally Posted by Pearl96Max
Stinger 100,000 Farad? Thats definately a new one to me. Theyve never made any that high....
To answer your question though, try upgrading all of your ground wires first. Alt,Bat,etc...all under the hood. Use min 4awg and it *should* help.
--Don
To answer your question though, try upgrading all of your ground wires first. Alt,Bat,etc...all under the hood. Use min 4awg and it *should* help.
--Don
03-24-2004, 08:25 AM
#5
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,674
Originally Posted by kpr10is
i also need a HO alternator but for my 2k. i havent found one anywhere. someone enlighten me please, theres gotta be one out there somewhere
Try HERE
Either check with your local dealer or give me your info and Ill get ya a price.
--Don
03-24-2004, 01:40 PM
#6
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Unless you are listeing to pure techno at deafening volume I can't see how your alt is pressed with the amps you mentioned.
For everything there is a trade off. If you go to a high amp alt there is a big trade off, several of them actually. But if you insist without very serious analysis your car first I would look to OG or Mean Green.
But there are likely at least another half dozen good alt's on the market. And a few dozen that aren't worth a dang.
How long is the power and ground wire to the 1200 watt amp? How far is the cap from the amp? How long is the wire from cap to amp? Where and what amperage fusing are you useing?
For everything there is a trade off. If you go to a high amp alt there is a big trade off, several of them actually. But if you insist without very serious analysis your car first I would look to OG or Mean Green.
But there are likely at least another half dozen good alt's on the market. And a few dozen that aren't worth a dang.
How long is the power and ground wire to the 1200 watt amp? How far is the cap from the amp? How long is the wire from cap to amp? Where and what amperage fusing are you useing?
03-25-2004, 11:31 PM
#7
I agree with jmax. I have about 1400 watts going to my system, a 1F cap and an Optima Yellow Top and I have no problems at all with my battery charging. The only complaint I have is light dimming while my system is on full blast. You may want to check your wiring before you replace your alternator because I think that the equipment you have should be enough to power your system. I can even run my xbox with engine off for a good while and I have no problems starting my car.
03-26-2004, 04:52 AM
#8
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
he said his charging system can't keep up...meaning the alternator is weak...he didn't mean his battery doesnt charge or his car won't start. a 1200 watt amp at full outpu will draw 90 or so amps at 13.8 volts..if u used half the amps power (600 watts) at 13.8 volts you would be pulling 44 amps...turn on ur headlights and other accessories and ur current drain is even higher...the factory alternator is set to put out 115 or so amps at like 6000 rpm's or some **** like that...so ur really pushing the alternator to the limits with even a 1000 watt RMS setup...why push the alternator to the limits when u could get a high output alternator that can be turned to produce enough amperage at normal driving RPMs? i mean at idle RPM, your factory alternator could be putting out like 50 or 60 amps, that's not sufficient...and that's why light's still dim....forget caps..they are a waste of money
03-26-2004, 06:20 AM
#9
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Let's see what happens when you crank a high output alt to put out 120 amps or more at idle, meltdown. Plain and simple. You drive your car at 1500 - 3000 rpm's and that is where the factory alt works best. A high output daily driver tuned alt will put out considerably less current at idle than the factory alt. Cost / benefit analysis gives the factory alt a 10 out of 10 and the HO alt a 1 out of 10.
Do you have any clue how loud 600 watts is? Go ahead and play a tone at 600 watts for 30 seconds. Measure with your multimeter. Unless you have very good hearing protection you will likely have numb ears for several hours, possibly some permanent hearing loss.
Music has peaks and valleys in output. Dynamic music has much more valley than peak output. Dance and techno may only have a 3 dB crest factor, which basically makes the CD format worthless. But if you honestly crank that music for long periods while driving the alt is the last thing you need to worry about. A helmet and crash bumper would be more useful.
Even if you only had 50 amps of your factory alts current for the class D amp you would have plenty of power to shake you neighbors windows before you get to your street.
For dance and techno caps don't help a lot. But for 99% of music they are very useful. For SPL caps are useless. For the daily driver they are an awesome resource of quick energy.
Do you have any clue how loud 600 watts is? Go ahead and play a tone at 600 watts for 30 seconds. Measure with your multimeter. Unless you have very good hearing protection you will likely have numb ears for several hours, possibly some permanent hearing loss.
Music has peaks and valleys in output. Dynamic music has much more valley than peak output. Dance and techno may only have a 3 dB crest factor, which basically makes the CD format worthless. But if you honestly crank that music for long periods while driving the alt is the last thing you need to worry about. A helmet and crash bumper would be more useful.
Even if you only had 50 amps of your factory alts current for the class D amp you would have plenty of power to shake you neighbors windows before you get to your street.
For dance and techno caps don't help a lot. But for 99% of music they are very useful. For SPL caps are useless. For the daily driver they are an awesome resource of quick energy.
)
03-26-2004, 07:55 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by jmax
Let's see what happens when you crank a high output alt to put out 120 amps or more at idle, meltdown. Plain and simple. You drive your car at 1500 - 3000 rpm's and that is where the factory alt works best. A high output daily driver tuned alt will put out considerably less current at idle than the factory alt. Cost / benefit analysis gives the factory alt a 10 out of 10 and the HO alt a 1 out of 10.
Do you have any clue how loud 600 watts is? Go ahead and play a tone at 600 watts for 30 seconds. Measure with your multimeter. Unless you have very good hearing protection you will likely have numb ears for several hours, possibly some permanent hearing loss.
Music has peaks and valleys in output. Dynamic music has much more valley than peak output. Dance and techno may only have a 3 dB crest factor, which basically makes the CD format worthless. But if you honestly crank that music for long periods while driving the alt is the last thing you need to worry about. A helmet and crash bumper would be more useful.
Even if you only had 50 amps of your factory alts current for the class D amp you would have plenty of power to shake you neighbors windows before you get
your street.
For dance and techno caps don't help a lot. But for 99% of music they are very useful. For SPL caps are useless. For the daily driver they are an awesome resource of quick energy.
Do you have any clue how loud 600 watts is? Go ahead and play a tone at 600 watts for 30 seconds. Measure with your multimeter. Unless you have very good hearing protection you will likely have numb ears for several hours, possibly some permanent hearing loss.
Music has peaks and valleys in output. Dynamic music has much more valley than peak output. Dance and techno may only have a 3 dB crest factor, which basically makes the CD format worthless. But if you honestly crank that music for long periods while driving the alt is the last thing you need to worry about. A helmet and crash bumper would be more useful.
Even if you only had 50 amps of your factory alts current for the class D amp you would have plenty of power to shake you neighbors windows before you get
your street.
For dance and techno caps don't help a lot. But for 99% of music they are very useful. For SPL caps are useless. For the daily driver they are an awesome resource of quick energy.
03-26-2004, 09:04 AM
#13
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Posts: n/a
No, doesn't go into the battery. But you can fry the battery with too much power. I did have two years of Engineering at V-tech but chose a more interesting Degree.
I am referring to the crest factor of music, not the sine wave of an RMS signal. I don't have the time this week to cut and paste the data. I'm driving to Daytona tomorrow, with my OG alt. Check out the high output alts and look at what happens when you take a nissan, hitachi, sized alt case and over wind for more peak current. The It's like any man made mechanical device and severely lacking in efficiency. You boost one side and it goes down everywhere else. Like changing to a high performance cam, power is higher in a particular range but not really useful for normal driving.
I am referring to the crest factor of music, not the sine wave of an RMS signal. I don't have the time this week to cut and paste the data. I'm driving to Daytona tomorrow, with my OG alt. Check out the high output alts and look at what happens when you take a nissan, hitachi, sized alt case and over wind for more peak current. The It's like any man made mechanical device and severely lacking in efficiency. You boost one side and it goes down everywhere else. Like changing to a high performance cam, power is higher in a particular range but not really useful for normal driving.
03-26-2004, 09:58 AM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by jmax
No, doesn't go into the battery. But you can fry the battery with too much power. I did have two years of Engineering at V-tech but chose a more interesting Degree.
I am referring to the crest factor of music, not the sine wave of an RMS signal. I don't have the time this week to cut and paste the data. I'm driving to Daytona tomorrow, with my OG alt. Check out the high output alts and look at what happens when you take a nissan, hitachi, sized alt case and over wind for more peak current. The It's like any man made mechanical device and severely lacking in efficiency. You boost one side and it goes down everywhere else. Like changing to a high performance cam, power is higher in a particular range but not really useful for normal driving.
I am referring to the crest factor of music, not the sine wave of an RMS signal. I don't have the time this week to cut and paste the data. I'm driving to Daytona tomorrow, with my OG alt. Check out the high output alts and look at what happens when you take a nissan, hitachi, sized alt case and over wind for more peak current. The It's like any man made mechanical device and severely lacking in efficiency. You boost one side and it goes down everywhere else. Like changing to a high performance cam, power is higher in a particular range but not really useful for normal driving.
the RMS is from the music data...and i never said re-wind the stock alternator....maybe you should have stayed in school for engineering instead of reading articles online...upgrading the alt is the only way to maintain 14.4 volts...try doing that with a cap...u will be up at 100 farads before that would happen...eh whatever
03-26-2004, 07:24 PM
#15
Originally Posted by friendhasmax
the RMS is from the music data...and i never said re-wind the stock alternator....maybe you should have stayed in school for engineering instead of reading articles online...upgrading the alt is the only way to maintain 14.4 volts...try doing that with a cap...u will be up at 100 farads before that would happen...eh whatever
My car holds a steady 13.9-14.0v reading, even at idle. If I crank it then yeah its obviously going to drop a little but its right back upto 13.9-14.0v. When im driving that # barley changes, I dont have a cap but am considering one soon. Hell I have many things I want to upgrade but the alt is not one of them. It has too many trade off's for me to benefit from
03-26-2004, 07:58 PM
#16
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by HitManSE
Well...that can (and obviously) be argued. The HO alt will hold up a higher level of voltage, thats true. BUT as jmax stated, it doesnt hold up too well at idle. You actually have less power then the OE alt at idle, that is very true.
My car holds a steady 13.9-14.0v reading, even at idle. If I crank it then yeah its obviously going to drop a little but its right back upto 13.9-14.0v. When im driving that # barley changes, I dont have a cap but am considering one soon. Hell I have many things I want to upgrade but the alt is not one of them. It has too many trade off's for me to benefit from
My car holds a steady 13.9-14.0v reading, even at idle. If I crank it then yeah its obviously going to drop a little but its right back upto 13.9-14.0v. When im driving that # barley changes, I dont have a cap but am considering one soon. Hell I have many things I want to upgrade but the alt is not one of them. It has too many trade off's for me to benefit from
03-26-2004, 10:25 PM
#17
Im not refering to the car just sitting there & running. With the sub running and a decently loud level of volume at idle. The OEM alternator doesnt produce it max amperage til its in the 1500+rpm range.
As far as the voltage staying at apprx 14.4 on any "stock" alternator. I honestly have never seen one that high at idle. Ive checked voltage readings on car after car after car... (a normal car, w/o anything added to it, regardless of make/model) and on average they are between 13.4-13.6v
As far as H.O. alternators go all I know about them is what ive read so my knowledge on them is limited considering the fact ive never really worked with them, BUT if its possible to run an H.O. alternator to put out as much voltage at idle then the OEM alternator then yeah it could very well be worth it.
So exactly which alternators are you talking about then...
As far as the voltage staying at apprx 14.4 on any "stock" alternator. I honestly have never seen one that high at idle. Ive checked voltage readings on car after car after car... (a normal car, w/o anything added to it, regardless of make/model) and on average they are between 13.4-13.6v
As far as H.O. alternators go all I know about them is what ive read so my knowledge on them is limited considering the fact ive never really worked with them, BUT if its possible to run an H.O. alternator to put out as much voltage at idle then the OEM alternator then yeah it could very well be worth it.
So exactly which alternators are you talking about then...
03-26-2004, 11:42 PM
#18
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Yeah, tell us where these magical alternators are coming from because they defy the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing, but that's common sense. Even the marketing folks for the aftermarket alts don't claim to be able to hold 14.4 volts at idle. And the marketing for stinger is pure BS. Unless they have changed it in the past three years.
Friendhasmax, what were your GRE scores since you know so much about Engineering? And at what percentile does that place you relative to other Engineering students? I'd love to put my scores next to yours and see how prospective employers would rate us not knowing what our degree's are in. And how many alternator companies have accepted you for employment? If you know so much why havn't you stated any facts? It's easy to claim someone else is wrong when you don't know the truth.
"instead of reading articles online..." What online articles do you think I have been reading? You are so petty.
Friendhasmax, what were your GRE scores since you know so much about Engineering? And at what percentile does that place you relative to other Engineering students? I'd love to put my scores next to yours and see how prospective employers would rate us not knowing what our degree's are in. And how many alternator companies have accepted you for employment? If you know so much why havn't you stated any facts? It's easy to claim someone else is wrong when you don't know the truth.
"instead of reading articles online..." What online articles do you think I have been reading? You are so petty.
03-27-2004, 02:20 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by jmax
Yeah, tell us where these magical alternators are coming from because they defy the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing, but that's common sense. Even the marketing folks for the aftermarket alts don't claim to be able to hold 14.4 volts at idle. And the marketing for stinger is pure BS. Unless they have changed it in the past three years.
Friendhasmax, what were your GRE scores since you know so much about Engineering? And at what percentile does that place you relative to other Engineering students? I'd love to put my scores next to yours and see how prospective employers would rate us not knowing what our degree's are in. And how many alternator companies have accepted you for employment? If you know so much why havn't you stated any facts? It's easy to claim someone else is wrong when you don't know the truth.
"instead of reading articles online..." What online articles do you think I have been reading? You are so petty.
Friendhasmax, what were your GRE scores since you know so much about Engineering? And at what percentile does that place you relative to other Engineering students? I'd love to put my scores next to yours and see how prospective employers would rate us not knowing what our degree's are in. And how many alternator companies have accepted you for employment? If you know so much why havn't you stated any facts? It's easy to claim someone else is wrong when you don't know the truth.
"instead of reading articles online..." What online articles do you think I have been reading? You are so petty.
i don't exactly see facts from you either...copy and paste ur data....all i know from experience is that i have tested numerous cars at idle and they read 14.4 volts.....and that's a stock alternator.....i don't know y u think the laws of physics are being violated...it doesn't take much more from the engine to get more out of an alternator...if an alternator uses smaller cores and more windings then it will produce more current based on those facts + the pully ratio...i don't see why this is so hard to believe....and sure max current isn't until max RPM's, but most people like the fact that they can get 80 amps at idle...hell even at 12 volts thats more than a stock alternator will allow you at idle..so tell me what the trouble is here in believing this...i mean i can have a step-up transformer take 12 volts and give me 120 volts at the output with no extra source added...does that violate the laws of physics too?
03-27-2004, 04:14 AM
#20
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Posts: 1,100
For an alt or info, consider e-mailing dominick@tds.net. MUCH cheaper than a Stinger and this guy has a great rep in the car audio community.
Other options....http://www.mralternator.com but not sure about the idle.
Other options....http://www.mralternator.com but not sure about the idle.
03-27-2004, 07:34 AM
#21
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http://www.mechman.com/alt.htm
There are a few charts there that are the norm for alternators. The higher the peak current is tweaked the lower the idle current. It's a fact. Well documented. it is also common sense.
Do distance runners win the 100 M at the olympics? Or cars, when they have 300 horses do they get the same gas mileage as if they only have 50 horses, considering everything else is equal?
"i mean i can have a step-up transformer take 12 volts and give me 120 volts at the output with no extra source added...does that violate the laws of physics too?" Yes, this does. The transformer or transformers will have a resistance value. Therefore it will take more power in to get equal power out. Like useing a smaller gauge wire to transfer power from the alt to the amps it won't be as efficient.
By the way, how many high output alts have you installed in a maxima? Do you even know the definitive test to determine if a high output alt will benefit a system? What is three phase ripple?
I believe it is roughly 1 horsepower for every 750 watts of electrical power. Consider an alt to be about 50% efficient.
There are a few charts there that are the norm for alternators. The higher the peak current is tweaked the lower the idle current. It's a fact. Well documented. it is also common sense.
Do distance runners win the 100 M at the olympics? Or cars, when they have 300 horses do they get the same gas mileage as if they only have 50 horses, considering everything else is equal?
"i mean i can have a step-up transformer take 12 volts and give me 120 volts at the output with no extra source added...does that violate the laws of physics too?" Yes, this does. The transformer or transformers will have a resistance value. Therefore it will take more power in to get equal power out. Like useing a smaller gauge wire to transfer power from the alt to the amps it won't be as efficient.
By the way, how many high output alts have you installed in a maxima? Do you even know the definitive test to determine if a high output alt will benefit a system? What is three phase ripple?
I believe it is roughly 1 horsepower for every 750 watts of electrical power. Consider an alt to be about 50% efficient.
03-27-2004, 09:18 AM
#22
You can get a 125 amp alternator that is a direct fit (physically longer, and came on some Infiniti I cars). Mine even came with a dyno sheet that went upto 140+ amps. It held 14 volts at idle when it was new but a month after it would only hold 13.8 at ide with my underdrive pully. The voltage output is set by the regulator usually more so than the alternator itself.
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