short throw
03-21-2007, 07:39 AM
#1
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short throw
I can't find much info on short throws, short of buying one. The max is my 1st 5spd, can I not cut the shifter, either cut out a section and weld the thread section back on, or cut it back, bore it down to size and run a die over it for the ****? Is this ill advised? What problems incur if any with cutting the stock shifter?? Any advice or comments appreciated, what do you have set up ??
03-21-2007, 07:54 AM
#2
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well i just cut mine down about 2 inches and it looks and feels great. you can buy a B&M short throw shifter from www.andysautosport.com
03-22-2007, 07:42 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by TunerMaxima3000
how'd you cut it, I want to keep the stock shifter ****.
03-22-2007, 10:23 AM
#5
personally i say go with the Short throw. I had a cut shifter in mine and the feel of the STS is much much better. If you have the time replace the shifter bushing as well. I replaced both at the same time the shift feel is 10 times better and i still have yet to miss a shift since installing it. cutting the shifter i believe increases how hard it is to shift since you'e not trully adjusting the shift length ( fulcrum) ...just the length of the lever.
03-22-2007, 10:38 AM
#7
Originally Posted by ObsidianIce69
cutting the shifter i believe increases how hard it is to shift since you'e not trully adjusting the shift length ( fulcrum) ...just the length of the lever.
please read this thread
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=255634
also this one here i posted a pics explaining the difference between ans sts and a cut shifter stick
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=219944
03-22-2007, 11:27 AM
#8
you can cut it, but it wont actually be a shorter throw. something to do with the linkage between the tranny and shifter...i was reading about it a few weeks ago, which could be why what i am saying so vague. lol (i have a terrible memory)
03-22-2007, 11:47 AM
#9
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
exactly thats why i been trying to explain for a long time but seems most people don't get it
please read this thread
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=255634
also this one here i posted a pics explaining the difference between ans sts and a cut shifter stick
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=219944
please read this thread
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=255634
also this one here i posted a pics explaining the difference between ans sts and a cut shifter stick
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=219944
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...5&postcount=16
03-22-2007, 01:09 PM
#10
cutting the stock stick will not make shift shorter it only makes the stick looks shorter it does not improve the shifting ,it does not makes shifting faster ,it does not makes the shifting more precise if you compare the stock and a B&M you realize why, i bough mine for my 240sx just because i got a hell of a deal back then but it wasn't until i compared the 2 that i understood why cutting the stock won't just do the trick
for looks go ahead and cut, it looks way much better but i rather take the rod to a machine shop have it cut and retreaded instead of cutting some on the middle and welding again this is my opinion but if you want to improve your shifting and feel more connected go the whole nine yards and buy a B&M
phenryiv1- have a few friends with specv using the B&M unit and the say the would never go back to stock even a few started cutting the stock one but after trying the B&M the went and bough it
for looks go ahead and cut, it looks way much better but i rather take the rod to a machine shop have it cut and retreaded instead of cutting some on the middle and welding again this is my opinion but if you want to improve your shifting and feel more connected go the whole nine yards and buy a B&M
phenryiv1- have a few friends with specv using the B&M unit and the say the would never go back to stock even a few started cutting the stock one but after trying the B&M the went and bough it
03-22-2007, 01:36 PM
#11
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
cutting the stock stick will not make shift shorter it only makes the stick looks shorter it does not improve the shifting ,it does not makes shifting faster ,it does not makes the shifting more precise if you compare the stock and a B&M you realize why, i bough mine for my 240sx just because i got a hell of a deal back then but it wasn't until i compared the 2 that i understood why cutting the stock won't just do the trick
for looks go ahead and cut, it looks way much better but i rather take the rod to a machine shop have it cut and retreaded instead of cutting some on the middle and welding again this is my opinion but if you want to improve your shifting and feel more connected go the whole nine yards and buy a B&M
phenryiv1- have a few friends with specv using the B&M unit and the say the would never go back to stock even a few started cutting the stock one but after trying the B&M the went and bough it
for looks go ahead and cut, it looks way much better but i rather take the rod to a machine shop have it cut and retreaded instead of cutting some on the middle and welding again this is my opinion but if you want to improve your shifting and feel more connected go the whole nine yards and buy a B&M
phenryiv1- have a few friends with specv using the B&M unit and the say the would never go back to stock even a few started cutting the stock one but after trying the B&M the went and bough it
exactly you wont have a STS it may look better for the height, but you haven't changed the pivot fulcrum which is what the STS truelly do. cut if you like but wont be a STS
03-22-2007, 06:18 PM
#12
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
phenryiv1- have a few friends with specv using the B&M unit and the say the would never go back to stock even a few started cutting the stock one but after trying the B&M the went and bough it
It does not change the action that the shifter performs, but it TECHNICALLY shortens the distance that the hand moves to change gears- just not by nearly as much as does a true SS.
03-22-2007, 07:24 PM
#13
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Awesome info thanks to everyone. After reading this I think I will wait and buy one, then maybe cut it down for looks, I wish there were a STS that were shorter in length they are only like 1-2" shorter. Anyways thanks again
03-23-2007, 07:13 PM
#15
i tried a few different sts on different cars and not even the &m clones comes close to th real thing the problems range from stick snapping from the base to the stick braking on a hard shifting while on a 1/4 slam shifting for i would not buy another unit unless it a B&M
03-25-2007, 01:08 AM
#16
If you cut the lever half of the shifter you DEFINATELY change the position of the fulcrum. A "sts" is the same exact thing as cutting your shifter. Just to a different length than B&M does. Say the stock shifter is 8" on the top half and 2 " on the bottom half. that's a 4:1 ratio. You have to move roughly 4 times the distance, but at 25% effort. Now if you hack 2" of the top, you now have moved the ratio to 3:1 so you only have to move the stick 3 times the distance of the shifter's travel on the linkage side, but you've increased the effort to 33%. Less distance but also less leverage, the basic purpose of any Short-throw.
But the aftermarket companies have done their research I'm sure and they've found a compromise between distance and effort so you'll almost always get the best of the two if you go with an aftermarket. The pivot DOES change when you cut the stick but it doesn't meant it's the most beneficial amount.
The other things that make a difference in an aftermarket one is the quality or design of the stops and the pivot connection itself.
But the aftermarket companies have done their research I'm sure and they've found a compromise between distance and effort so you'll almost always get the best of the two if you go with an aftermarket. The pivot DOES change when you cut the stick but it doesn't meant it's the most beneficial amount.
The other things that make a difference in an aftermarket one is the quality or design of the stops and the pivot connection itself.
03-25-2007, 06:35 AM
#17
Originally Posted by HM_Motorsports
If you cut the lever half of the shifter you DEFINATELY change the position of the fulcrum. A "sts" is the same exact thing as cutting your shifter.
03-25-2007, 07:23 AM
#18
ok many ppl have said cutting is useless... and that B&M is the way to go... i dint realy feel like paying 200 bucks for shorter throws... so i found something like this
http://www.cosmoracing.com/productin...id=137&pid=294
is this worth the money or should i just keep my stock shifter?
http://www.cosmoracing.com/productin...id=137&pid=294
is this worth the money or should i just keep my stock shifter?
03-25-2007, 09:13 AM
#19
Originally Posted by HM_Motorsports
If you cut the lever half of the shifter you DEFINATELY change the position of the fulcrum. A "sts" is the same exact thing as cutting your shifter. Just to a different length than B&M does. Say the stock shifter is 8" on the top half and 2 " on the bottom half. that's a 4:1 ratio. You have to move roughly 4 times the distance, but at 25% effort. Now if you hack 2" of the top, you now have moved the ratio to 3:1 so you only have to move the stick 3 times the distance of the shifter's travel on the linkage side, but you've increased the effort to 33%. Less distance but also less leverage, the basic purpose of any Short-throw.
But the aftermarket companies have done their research I'm sure and they've found a compromise between distance and effort so you'll almost always get the best of the two if you go with an aftermarket. The pivot DOES change when you cut the stick but it doesn't meant it's the most beneficial amount.
The other things that make a difference in an aftermarket one is the quality or design of the stops and the pivot connection itself.
But the aftermarket companies have done their research I'm sure and they've found a compromise between distance and effort so you'll almost always get the best of the two if you go with an aftermarket. The pivot DOES change when you cut the stick but it doesn't meant it's the most beneficial amount.
The other things that make a difference in an aftermarket one is the quality or design of the stops and the pivot connection itself.
no matter how much you cut the stock shifter you never going to change the travel unless you move the pivot ball higher and have the bottom part of the stick(below the pivot) longer thus increasing the travel below that point minimizing travel above that point simple physics
if you go ahead a try a B&M on a 240sx you realize that you barely move your hand no more than 1.75" from 2 gear to 5 gear or 1 gear to reverse which are the farthest 2 points between shifts before that is almost 3.25" i did that measurement on my old 240sx not to mention the precise shifting more solid feel and again many of my friends tried all kinds of shifters before the only other thing that came close was a tomei and a real nismo shifter for same car but not even the nismo shifter was a good as the B&M and it cost $75 more
03-25-2007, 06:11 PM
#20
Just so you know you can use your stock shift **** with a B&M it's threaded just like stock. And everything said in the above post is %100 accurate.
I have a b&m, ss clutch line, and poly shifter bushing my mechanic sat into my car to drive it on the lift and said he has never seen such nice, and precise shifts. He loved my set-up, as does everyone that trys it.
I have a b&m, ss clutch line, and poly shifter bushing my mechanic sat into my car to drive it on the lift and said he has never seen such nice, and precise shifts. He loved my set-up, as does everyone that trys it.
03-25-2007, 10:04 PM
#21
Nismo, I never said that a cut lever was better or even near as good as an aftermarket sts. In fact, I thought I said the opposite. The only point I was trying to make was that the fulcrum, did indeed move. The efficiency of a lever , or balance, or whatever you want to call it is measured by ratios. Not by how long one end is. If you cut a stock shifter, it DOES change the fulcrum relative to the overall length.
Maximus_pr. Please read posts more carefully before you make assumptions. I've used plenty of B&M shifters as a matter of fact I sell them through my shop. 3 of my personal cars, a t-5 equipped Fox mustang, a 97 Transam t56 and a 98 Cobra have had B&M shifters. All 3 of which I've been very pleased with. There's one sitting in my 5spd swap pile for the Maxima. It would help if you reread my original post. I did NOT give any personal opinion of ANY product. In fact what I did say that a sts from an aftermarket company will in almost every case outperform a cut shifter.
Second. It is mathematically impossible to make a shifter have a shorter travel distance on the shift **** end and not increase the force needed to move it. Take a teeter totter and put someone else on the other end. Now hack your side in half, and assuming you're both the same weight. You won't be able to lift them anymore. the force needed to lift them increases when you shortened your side of the lever.
I'm sorry I apparently upset some people with that, I didn't really think it was a big deal. But the fulcrum moves when you cut the shifter, not physically, but relatively. My whole entire point.
if cut your stock shifter you will encounter more resistance thats for sure but with a B&M its the same resistance but more thigh ,precise and shorter shift please stop giving opinions on something you have not even tried yourself
Second. It is mathematically impossible to make a shifter have a shorter travel distance on the shift **** end and not increase the force needed to move it. Take a teeter totter and put someone else on the other end. Now hack your side in half, and assuming you're both the same weight. You won't be able to lift them anymore. the force needed to lift them increases when you shortened your side of the lever.
I'm sorry I apparently upset some people with that, I didn't really think it was a big deal. But the fulcrum moves when you cut the shifter, not physically, but relatively. My whole entire point.
03-25-2007, 10:12 PM
#22
^the man speaks the truth, you will never decrease throw without increasing resistance with just a different shift rod. That's part of why our trannies suck, you can make the throw as short as you want but it will still be limited by the transmission design, and thus will require more and more effort to shift. This is part of the reason I haven't gotten a short shifter yet.
Still considering it though. If for no other reason, because my shifter sits so high it's like a ski pole.
Still considering it though. If for no other reason, because my shifter sits so high it's like a ski pole.
03-25-2007, 11:13 PM
#23
Originally Posted by HM_Motorsports
Nismo, I never said that a cut lever was better or even near as good as an aftermarket sts. In fact, I thought I said the opposite. The only point I was trying to make was that the fulcrum, did indeed move. The efficiency of a lever , or balance, or whatever you want to call it is measured by ratios. Not by how long one end is. If you cut a stock shifter, it DOES change the fulcrum relative to the overall length.
Maximus_pr. Please read posts more carefully before you make assumptions. I've used plenty of B&M shifters as a matter of fact I sell them through my shop. 3 of my personal cars, a t-5 equipped Fox mustang, a 97 Transam t56 and a 98 Cobra have had B&M shifters. All 3 of which I've been very pleased with. There's one sitting in my 5spd swap pile for the Maxima. It would help if you reread my original post. I did NOT give any personal opinion of ANY product. In fact what I did say that a sts from an aftermarket company will in almost every case outperform a cut shifter.
Second. It is mathematically impossible to make a shifter have a shorter travel distance on the shift **** end and not increase the force needed to move it. Take a teeter totter and put someone else on the other end. Now hack your side in half, and assuming you're both the same weight. You won't be able to lift them anymore. the force needed to lift them increases when you shortened your side of the lever.
I'm sorry I apparently upset some people with that, I didn't really think it was a big deal. But the fulcrum moves when you cut the shifter, not physically, but relatively. My whole entire point.
Maximus_pr. Please read posts more carefully before you make assumptions. I've used plenty of B&M shifters as a matter of fact I sell them through my shop. 3 of my personal cars, a t-5 equipped Fox mustang, a 97 Transam t56 and a 98 Cobra have had B&M shifters. All 3 of which I've been very pleased with. There's one sitting in my 5spd swap pile for the Maxima. It would help if you reread my original post. I did NOT give any personal opinion of ANY product. In fact what I did say that a sts from an aftermarket company will in almost every case outperform a cut shifter.
Second. It is mathematically impossible to make a shifter have a shorter travel distance on the shift **** end and not increase the force needed to move it. Take a teeter totter and put someone else on the other end. Now hack your side in half, and assuming you're both the same weight. You won't be able to lift them anymore. the force needed to lift them increases when you shortened your side of the lever.
I'm sorry I apparently upset some people with that, I didn't really think it was a big deal. But the fulcrum moves when you cut the shifter, not physically, but relatively. My whole entire point.
also i don't get upset i just express my opinion based on my experience don't mean either that i'm always right thats what makes a forum interesting don't you think
also i tried the B&M for the 04 mustang and for some reason it did not felt like it did on my 240sx for some reason it was kind of loose but was much better than stock specially not missing a shift on a 500+whp car your tranny can go to hell
03-26-2007, 12:32 AM
#24
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
if you compare the stock vs the B&M for the maxima you realize that both are almost the same lenght but the B&M have the ball shaped pivot higher and the lower part below tha pivot a bit longer thats why resitance don't change with the this shifter but it does if you cut stock one, again my experience with my old 240sx
also i don't get upset i just express my opinion based on my experience don't mean either that i'm always right thats what makes a forum interesting don't you think
also i tried the B&M for the 04 mustang and for some reason it did not felt like it did on my 240sx for some reason it was kind of loose but was much better than stock specially not missing a shift on a 500+whp car your tranny can go to hell
also i don't get upset i just express my opinion based on my experience don't mean either that i'm always right thats what makes a forum interesting don't you think
also i tried the B&M for the 04 mustang and for some reason it did not felt like it did on my 240sx for some reason it was kind of loose but was much better than stock specially not missing a shift on a 500+whp car your tranny can go to hell
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