Phenolic Spacer Development for VQ35s
03-12-2007, 07:27 AM
#1
Phenolic Spacer Development for VQ35s
Hey guys, i have been talking to aaron92se about getting this developed for our car. i want to see who would be interested in doing this mod. this is like the sk2 for the g & z but r&d'd specifically for our car. there is a lot of interest in the 5th gens but for us its a bit different becuase we have an EGR system and blocking it wouldnt be an option unlike on 5th gens where it can. its becuase the intake manifold will need to be raised 1/4" and the EGR tube might not bolt on anymore.
info from the 5th forums http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=511722
info from the 5th forums http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=511722
03-12-2007, 09:08 AM
#3
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Well since I have had my manifold off serveral times, I can guarentee on the 6th Gen, the EGR will not line up with a spacer added. I for one am interested in getting one so count me in...
03-12-2007, 11:40 AM
#7
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Originally Posted by RHMax
How about the hood clearance w/FSTB?
I'm guessing if a 1/4" plenum spacer (gaskets) is added, to safety clear against vibration or rubbing; a safe distance should be close to 1"
I'll measure the gap but this is the only picture I have that gives an idea of clearance...
The rear bolts mounting the manifold intake is well behind the strut brace so that's a non-issue. For the 6th Gen, my only concern is when the manifold is raised, the two bolts that secure the intake manifold to the support bracket (located in the middle behind the manifold intake and the firewall) will not line up anymore...
03-12-2007, 12:06 PM
#9
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: LA/OC, CA
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Originally Posted by chernmax
I thought about it and I'm pretty sure it should clear...
I'm guessing if a 1/4" plenum spacer (gaskets) is added, to safety clear against vibration or rubbing; a safe distance should be close to 1"
I'll measure the gap but this is the only picture I have that gives an idea of clearance... The rear bolts mounting the manifold intake is well behind the strut brace so that's a non-issue.
For the 6th Gen, my only concern is when the manifold is raised, the two bolts that secure the intake manifold to the support bracket (located in the middle behind the manifold intake and the firewall) will not line up anymore...
I'm guessing if a 1/4" plenum spacer (gaskets) is added, to safety clear against vibration or rubbing; a safe distance should be close to 1"
I'll measure the gap but this is the only picture I have that gives an idea of clearance...
The rear bolts mounting the manifold intake is well behind the strut brace so that's a non-issue. For the 6th Gen, my only concern is when the manifold is raised, the two bolts that secure the intake manifold to the support bracket (located in the middle behind the manifold intake and the firewall) will not line up anymore...
03-12-2007, 12:11 PM
#10
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Originally Posted by RHMax
Possibly with Taz motor mounts, the block won't move too much when in reverse.
03-12-2007, 01:08 PM
#11
The ballpark price for the 3.5L 5.5 gen kit is expected to be $190-$240.
Another concern that was raised is the intake support bracket. This shouldn't be an issue since the intake manifold on the 3.5L will work just fine without this bracket. I just wouldn't stand on top of your intake manifold. The VE design has two large brackets on the rear and it appears to be holding up a lot of weight, but many people haven't eliminated those and it's fine. It's still strong enough that you can lean on the upper IM. Just don't jump up and down on top of your motor.
I can't comment on hood clearance with the 6th. But on the 5.5 gen, there is plenty enough hood clearance. Their only concern would be that some FSTB's won't fit without installing washers to raise the bar up. And they still have enough room inbetween the bar and the hood.
Also, my biggest concern is your EGR system. If we can't make a work around for that, then I will have to develop a spacer that is the same thickness as your stock gasket. Just instead of metal, it will be high quality thermal resistant phenolic. Combine this with two lower IM spacers, an elbow spacer, and a throttle body spacer, and this will be a nice kit!
Your kit should be the same as the 3.5L 5.5 gen except for the fact that you have an EGR system and that might require a thinner upper IM spacer.
If there is demand, which I know there will be. I will need a volunteer that can be a test vehicle where I can conduct my temperature testing and design the kit on paper. The first test session shouldn't take more than 3 hours. After I design the spacers and have the prototype machined, I will call the test vehicle back out to my shop for installation and before and after testing.
Thank you for your interest everybody! Please keep the comments and questions coming!
Another concern that was raised is the intake support bracket. This shouldn't be an issue since the intake manifold on the 3.5L will work just fine without this bracket. I just wouldn't stand on top of your intake manifold. The VE design has two large brackets on the rear and it appears to be holding up a lot of weight, but many people haven't eliminated those and it's fine. It's still strong enough that you can lean on the upper IM. Just don't jump up and down on top of your motor.
I can't comment on hood clearance with the 6th. But on the 5.5 gen, there is plenty enough hood clearance. Their only concern would be that some FSTB's won't fit without installing washers to raise the bar up. And they still have enough room inbetween the bar and the hood.
Also, my biggest concern is your EGR system. If we can't make a work around for that, then I will have to develop a spacer that is the same thickness as your stock gasket. Just instead of metal, it will be high quality thermal resistant phenolic. Combine this with two lower IM spacers, an elbow spacer, and a throttle body spacer, and this will be a nice kit!
Your kit should be the same as the 3.5L 5.5 gen except for the fact that you have an EGR system and that might require a thinner upper IM spacer.
If there is demand, which I know there will be. I will need a volunteer that can be a test vehicle where I can conduct my temperature testing and design the kit on paper. The first test session shouldn't take more than 3 hours. After I design the spacers and have the prototype machined, I will call the test vehicle back out to my shop for installation and before and after testing.
Thank you for your interest everybody! Please keep the comments and questions coming!
03-22-2007, 08:20 AM
#14
Originally Posted by eK9aT10pSi
updates aaron?
Earlier this week, I already submitted my CAD drawings to have these CNC machined. And I also have all the other parts on order as we speak. I hope to have the prototype spacers within the next 2 weeks.But as far as the 6th kit, once I make the 5.5 gen kit, we will see if there will be any fitment issues with the 6th gen. But I have not been able to find a 6th gen test vehicle yet in order to determine EGR fitment problems.
Once I get the 5.5 gen kit produced, I will find a 6th gen that I can test fit the spacers on and see what EGR issues I have. The 6th kit will definitely cost more than the 5.5 gen kit if I have to make an EGR replacement tube. If anybody has detailed pictures of their EGR tube, then would help me a lot in designing this kit.
03-22-2007, 08:35 AM
#15
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
The spacer kit for the 5.5 gen is getting ever closer! Earlier this week, I already submitted my CAD drawings to have these CNC machined. And I also have all the other parts on order as we speak. I hope to have the prototype spacers within the next 2 weeks.
But as far as the 6th kit, once I make the 5.5 gen kit, we will see if there will be any fitment issues with the 6th gen. But I have not been able to find a 6th gen test vehicle yet in order to determine EGR fitment problems.
Once I get the 5.5 gen kit produced, I will find a 6th gen that I can test fit the spacers on and see what EGR issues I have. The 6th kit will definitely cost more than the 5.5 gen kit if I have to make an EGR replacement tube. If anybody has detailed pictures of their EGR tube, then would help me a lot in designing this kit.
Earlier this week, I already submitted my CAD drawings to have these CNC machined. And I also have all the other parts on order as we speak. I hope to have the prototype spacers within the next 2 weeks.But as far as the 6th kit, once I make the 5.5 gen kit, we will see if there will be any fitment issues with the 6th gen. But I have not been able to find a 6th gen test vehicle yet in order to determine EGR fitment problems.
Once I get the 5.5 gen kit produced, I will find a 6th gen that I can test fit the spacers on and see what EGR issues I have. The 6th kit will definitely cost more than the 5.5 gen kit if I have to make an EGR replacement tube. If anybody has detailed pictures of their EGR tube, then would help me a lot in designing this kit.
03-22-2007, 08:45 AM
#16
Originally Posted by chernmax
You can always rent a 6th Gen Nissan Maxima, do your thing and bring it back???
Now that's an option. But it's cheaper and easier for me to find a test vehicle since I may have to use the car a couple times within the testing phase. When I am ready, I will post in the regional forum and I'm sure I'll find somebody.
03-22-2007, 02:30 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Nietzsche
The 3.5 in 05, 06 Altimas is the same as the 3.5 in Maximas.
I know the 02-03 Maxima has the 3.5 w/o EGR. And the 6th gen (04+) has the EGR system.
Thanks.
03-22-2007, 04:19 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 344
If I understand this mod correctly the spacers are insulating the intake manifold heat from the engine? Reducing heat is great. Eventually if someone comes up with a sc or turbo kit it would be even more helpful.
03-22-2007, 07:31 PM
#22
Originally Posted by DeusExMaxima
I think he was saying the 05-06 Alti is the same as the 6th gen Maxima (04-06, and maybe 07)
03-22-2007, 10:58 PM
#24
how far is Snow Hill from Raleigh? I'd be down for the test fitting, as long as you promise not to blow up my car, and of course if it's not a 103904 hour drive.
also, what differences would we potentially see over stock?
-edit- about a 2.5 hour drive for me. not too bad. I'd be willing, especially if there's a test car discount involved
also, what differences would we potentially see over stock?
-edit- about a 2.5 hour drive for me. not too bad. I'd be willing, especially if there's a test car discount involved
03-24-2007, 10:28 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Ritz
how far is Snow Hill from Raleigh? I'd be down for the test fitting, as long as you promise not to blow up my car, and of course if it's not a 103904 hour drive.
also, what differences would we potentially see over stock?
-edit- about a 2.5 hour drive for me. not too bad. I'd be willing, especially if there's a test car discount involved
also, what differences would we potentially see over stock?
-edit- about a 2.5 hour drive for me. not too bad. I'd be willing, especially if there's a test car discount involved
You got PM.
03-24-2007, 12:18 PM
#26
Nations 1st 6th Gen Turbo
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Posts: 10,202
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
I can be in the east side of Raleigh in about 1 hour. It's a pretty easy drive since I'm located 5 minutes off Highway 264.
You got PM.
You got PM.
03-25-2007, 03:19 AM
#27
sweeeet. let me know when you're ready.
so, are you in Snow Hill? or is yahoo stupid? or can I just not read a map?
-edit- apparently, according to mapquest, there are five Snow Hill's in NC.... that's pretty strange.
so, are you in Snow Hill? or is yahoo stupid? or can I just not read a map?
-edit- apparently, according to mapquest, there are five Snow Hill's in NC.... that's pretty strange.
03-25-2007, 10:19 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Ritz
sweeeet. let me know when you're ready.
so, are you in Snow Hill? or is yahoo stupid? or can I just not read a map?
-edit- apparently, according to mapquest, there are five Snow Hill's in NC.... that's pretty strange.
so, are you in Snow Hill? or is yahoo stupid? or can I just not read a map?
-edit- apparently, according to mapquest, there are five Snow Hill's in NC.... that's pretty strange.
04-11-2007, 10:09 PM
#33
Originally Posted by eK9aT10pSi
how are the tests coming?
But the 5.5 gen testing went very smooth! We saw a 10hp and 12ft-lb torque gain! I expected a decent gain on low end and midrange torque, but I didn't quite expect gains this high! And best of all, the longer runners did not shift the powerband lower. The top end power even got slightly better.
If you are interested in more information about the 5.5 gen testing, please check out the thread in that forum.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=511722
04-12-2007, 08:26 AM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
The tests for the 5.5 gen? I haven't started testing on the 6th gen. I hope to start designing the 6th gen kit in the next couple weeks.
But the 5.5 gen testing went very smooth! We saw a 10hp and 12ft-lb torque gain! I expected a decent gain on low end and midrange torque, but I didn't quite expect gains this high! And best of all, the longer runners did not shift the powerband lower. The top end power even got slightly better.
If you are interested in more information about the 5.5 gen testing, please check out the thread in that forum.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=511722
But the 5.5 gen testing went very smooth! We saw a 10hp and 12ft-lb torque gain! I expected a decent gain on low end and midrange torque, but I didn't quite expect gains this high! And best of all, the longer runners did not shift the powerband lower. The top end power even got slightly better.
If you are interested in more information about the 5.5 gen testing, please check out the thread in that forum.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=511722
04-12-2007, 12:12 PM
#38
Originally Posted by Hilbe
I assume this will increase our MPG as well? That makes it easy for me to "sell" this to the wife
I have not conducted any gas mileage tests since in order to do so, I'd have to burn up a tank of gas on a highway trip before and after. That would be the most accurate way to determine this. But even then, my highway mileage during the same day can vary between 26-28mpg.
But every single mods that helps reduce intake temperatures and improves airflow, have increased gas mileage. I am very certain that these spacers will only help gas mileage. I just can't say 'how much'.
04-12-2007, 12:21 PM
#39
What do you guys think of a 304 Stainless Steel EGR replacement tube similiar to the one I offer for the VE and VG Maximas?
This tube should increase the price of the kit by $35-55 depending on the flanges that will be needed. Since the VE and VG tube has those metric male and female fittings, the production cost on this tube goes WAY up. I have this tube made in India b/c the correct fittings are impossible to find within the US.
But, if all I need is this flexible metal tube TIG welded on CNC'd flanges that I will make, then I can make these within the US and the costs will drop considerably. The total price of this kit will be around $260-$280.
The other idea is to reduce the thickness of the UIM spacer to match the thickness of your stock gasket. That way, your stock EGR tube can still match up. The total price of this kit is projected to be around $215. But it will not help as much as the kit made for the 5.5 gen.
Another idea is to block the EGR system. That is usually not an option for almost everybody here b/c of emissions in their area. Plus, it may not be easy tricking the ECU into thinking you still have an operational EGR system.
Please let me know what you guys think!
If anybody else is interested in the production of these spacers for the 6th gen, please post in this thread so I can get a good idea how much demand there is.
Thank you.
This tube should increase the price of the kit by $35-55 depending on the flanges that will be needed. Since the VE and VG tube has those metric male and female fittings, the production cost on this tube goes WAY up. I have this tube made in India b/c the correct fittings are impossible to find within the US.
But, if all I need is this flexible metal tube TIG welded on CNC'd flanges that I will make, then I can make these within the US and the costs will drop considerably. The total price of this kit will be around $260-$280.
The other idea is to reduce the thickness of the UIM spacer to match the thickness of your stock gasket. That way, your stock EGR tube can still match up. The total price of this kit is projected to be around $215. But it will not help as much as the kit made for the 5.5 gen.
Another idea is to block the EGR system. That is usually not an option for almost everybody here b/c of emissions in their area. Plus, it may not be easy tricking the ECU into thinking you still have an operational EGR system.
Please let me know what you guys think!
If anybody else is interested in the production of these spacers for the 6th gen, please post in this thread so I can get a good idea how much demand there is.
Thank you.