00VI: vacuum hose check, will crank but not start ? (photos)
12-05-2006, 01:18 AM
#1
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00VI: vacuum hose check, will crank but not start ? (photos)
Thought it was time to start a new thread. We have gotten everything put back on the engine (UIM, LIM, fuel rail, injectors, rear coils and rear valve cover, 5th gen TB with block off plate)
We removed the egr system and have a block off plate on the UIM and going into the headers/extractors.
Car would turn over but wouldnt crank. So thought I would list the codes I pulled this afternoon, and post up some photos and see if some of you who have done the swap before can spot what may be wrong with the hoses. Again my egr system is out and blocked off.
Codes:
03-02 - EGR System Hi/Low Flow
09-02 -
01-04 - Vehicle Speed Sensor
02-05 - Idle Speed Control
Photos:
We removed the egr system and have a block off plate on the UIM and going into the headers/extractors.
Car would turn over but wouldnt crank. So thought I would list the codes I pulled this afternoon, and post up some photos and see if some of you who have done the swap before can spot what may be wrong with the hoses. Again my egr system is out and blocked off.
Codes:
03-02 - EGR System Hi/Low Flow
09-02 -
01-04 - Vehicle Speed Sensor
02-05 - Idle Speed Control
Photos:
12-05-2006, 02:51 AM
#3
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Well first off, you can unscrew the temp sensor thats in the EGR valve guide tube on your 4th gen setup and plug that into your IACV plug. Just plug it in and let it hang there with tape on it.
Where is the other side of your IACV hose going to ??
Try resetting the ECU and try starting again.
-matt
Where is the other side of your IACV hose going to ??
Try resetting the ECU and try starting again.
-matt
12-05-2006, 08:01 AM
#5
+1 with what Matty said. Also, just recheck to make sure your fpr is getting vacuum. I noticed you put a screw in one of the hoses on top. If you have a hose, that would be a perfect location to run a 3/16" hose to your fpr.
In your 3rd picture there is a screw in one of the hoses going vertical. That should also get vacuum. Go ahead and get a 3-T and connect that hose to the same hose I mentioned above. The small vacuum hoses don't need there own vacuum hose, they just need to have vacuum.
The fifth picture also shows a screw in one of the hoses. I'm trying to figure out where that goes to. It looks like it goes to the EGR Valve.
Also, try giving it some gas. I had to give it some gas first to get it to turn over.
Edit.: also, make sure you attach the intake before you crank it.
In your 3rd picture there is a screw in one of the hoses going vertical. That should also get vacuum. Go ahead and get a 3-T and connect that hose to the same hose I mentioned above. The small vacuum hoses don't need there own vacuum hose, they just need to have vacuum.
The fifth picture also shows a screw in one of the hoses. I'm trying to figure out where that goes to. It looks like it goes to the EGR Valve.
Also, try giving it some gas. I had to give it some gas first to get it to turn over.
Edit.: also, make sure you attach the intake before you crank it.
12-05-2006, 08:17 AM
#6
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Also with the screw method that I also did. Make sure you put a tab of sealant type gasket maker on the threads. Trust me. I did it first without some type of sealant, and air was leaking past the threads.
-matt
-matt
12-05-2006, 08:25 AM
#7
my car wouldnt start with out the air intake on it. like I had the maf plugged in but not on the tb and until I put it all on, it wouldnt start. run a ground to the battery just to check it when cranking to rule that out.
12-05-2006, 09:48 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by matty
Well first off, you can unscrew the temp sensor thats in the EGR valve guide tube on your 4th gen setup and plug that into your IACV plug. Just plug it in and let it hang there with tape on it.
Where is the other side of your IACV hose going to ??
Try resetting the ECU and try starting again.
-matt
Where is the other side of your IACV hose going to ??
Try resetting the ECU and try starting again.
-matt
12-05-2006, 11:50 AM
#12
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(using this diagram)
(comparing with my present setup)
5. block off nipple at the end, but (where yellow arrow is pointing) run that hose to UIM for needed vacuum. Where exactly does that connect on the UIM? It doesnt appear my hose is going to the right place.
6. Run this hose to the small nipple on frankencar midpipe, which mine appears to be right.
7. remove screw and just leave a short hose open connected to nipple (gtr you said try plugging this to vacuum, what do you think ?)
(comparing with my present setup)
5. block off nipple at the end, but (where yellow arrow is pointing) run that hose to UIM for needed vacuum. Where exactly does that connect on the UIM? It doesnt appear my hose is going to the right place.
6. Run this hose to the small nipple on frankencar midpipe, which mine appears to be right.
7. remove screw and just leave a short hose open connected to nipple (gtr you said try plugging this to vacuum, what do you think ?)
12-05-2006, 12:05 PM
#13
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Would you like me to snap some shots of my setup ??
I followed the setup in the FSM completely 100%. There are some great pics in there with great diagrams.
Let me know tonight....ill take some under the lights after class...I think you have something screwy
-mat
I followed the setup in the FSM completely 100%. There are some great pics in there with great diagrams.
Let me know tonight....ill take some under the lights after class...I think you have something screwy
-mat
12-05-2006, 05:42 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by jmeister
cyl2 injector harness unplugged for a reason?
12-05-2006, 05:54 PM
#19
I just understood what you were saying. You said the car is turning but not cranking. THan I saw the picture with your ground wires and alligator clips. I'm more than sure that those grounds need to be grounded to the block. You should consider one of two things. Go ahead and extend the wires to the timing cover or somewhere on the engine block or get another eyelid take a screw and nut to connect the stock grounds to your new eyelid. attach a 14 or 12 guage wire to that eyelid and put another eyelid on the other end. Than attach that to the engine.
12-05-2006, 09:50 PM
#21
Originally Posted by speed racer
I just understood what you were saying. You said the car is turning but not cranking. THan I saw the picture with your ground wires and alligator clips. I'm more than sure that those grounds need to be grounded to the block. You should consider one of two things. Go ahead and extend the wires to the timing cover or somewhere on the engine block or get another eyelid take a screw and nut to connect the stock grounds to your new eyelid. attach a 14 or 12 guage wire to that eyelid and put another eyelid on the other end. Than attach that to the engine.
From my experience, if those grounds aren't connected the starter won't even engage.
12-06-2006, 01:32 AM
#22
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just got back from troubleshooting again, no luck. from what i understand there is no vacuum ?
being that i have completely removed the egr system and blocked it off, would i be looking at a different hose setup versus the setups that kept egr ?
On the evap nipple i believe it is, is it important to drill/tap that to a 3/8" nipple ? On my UIM its still the same size as stock.
When you turn the ignition on should the fuel pump pressurize the fuel rail for a number of seconds to get it ready for cranking ?
Cant really think of anything else tonight. I thought I would get Aaron to sign up to the org and troubleshoot, as it would probably speed up this whole process since I dont know what im talking about 89% of the time.
being that i have completely removed the egr system and blocked it off, would i be looking at a different hose setup versus the setups that kept egr ?
On the evap nipple i believe it is, is it important to drill/tap that to a 3/8" nipple ? On my UIM its still the same size as stock.
When you turn the ignition on should the fuel pump pressurize the fuel rail for a number of seconds to get it ready for cranking ?
Cant really think of anything else tonight. I thought I would get Aaron to sign up to the org and troubleshoot, as it would probably speed up this whole process since I dont know what im talking about 89% of the time.
12-06-2006, 08:15 AM
#24
Originally Posted by gtr_rider
Yes, once you turn the ignition to ACC the fuel pump should pressurize/prime, if you dont hear that most likely your ground is not great.
what would cause the fuel pump not to prime, when you switch the key to acc?
12-06-2006, 08:18 AM
#25
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A bad pump, a bad ground, blown fuse.
Remember though guys, your fuel pump will only prime the first time for a few secondd after you turn it to acc...after it build up pressure and you turn the key back to acc lets say after a few seconds off, it shouldnt prime...
-matt
Remember though guys, your fuel pump will only prime the first time for a few secondd after you turn it to acc...after it build up pressure and you turn the key back to acc lets say after a few seconds off, it shouldnt prime...
-matt
12-06-2006, 08:20 AM
#26
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Another thing to remember is, you only changes your manifold so i really dont think the Pump is the problem
The ground in the front by the manifold needs to see a really good ground or your injectors just wont turn on.
Focus on what you changed and go from there.
-matt
The ground in the front by the manifold needs to see a really good ground or your injectors just wont turn on.
Focus on what you changed and go from there.
-matt
12-06-2006, 10:16 AM
#27
Originally Posted by matty
A bad pump, a bad ground, blown fuse.
Remember though guys, your fuel pump will only prime the first time for a few secondd after you turn it to acc...after it build up pressure and you turn the key back to acc lets say after a few seconds off, it shouldnt prime...
-matt
Remember though guys, your fuel pump will only prime the first time for a few secondd after you turn it to acc...after it build up pressure and you turn the key back to acc lets say after a few seconds off, it shouldnt prime...
-matt
one more ot question.. Sorry Ceasar!...
My fuel pump doesnt prime when the key is switched to acc.. I have to crank the engine for a few secs for it start and somewhat build pressure. Do you think it's a bad pump?
12-06-2006, 11:26 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by matty
Would you like me to snap some shots of my setup ??
-mat
-mat
- snapshot of good ground to compare with where mine is grounded.
- vacuum hose shot to follow hoses and verify where they go, somewhere something is still a bit off?
12-06-2006, 06:52 PM
#36
Ok caesar here you go.. i think i got everything.. this is bad when you know so much about this swap that you dont have to go to your car to see how everything is hooked up.. you just know! haha.. hope this helps.. sorry so sloppy
Purple - these two need to be connected. If the circled part underneath the TB is not hooked to vacuum on the UIM then this may be the source of your problem.. That metal line feeds your MAP Sensor and Fuel Pressure Regulator..
Blue - is irrelevant if you got rid of EGR.. That goes directly to your EGR Control Valve Solenoid.. Leave the screw in..
Yellow - needs to go to a clean air source, not vacuum.. anywhere on your midpipe.. as long as it is behind your air filter of course..
Green - these two also connect together.. connected this will complete your EVAP system.. which may also be the source of your problem.. i dont know if this controls the passage of fuel from the tank, or if it just helps the quality..
also you said you had the nipple from the IACV Plate going to the #5 spot on tatanko's diagram correct? if so that is right.. umm nothing else i see other than that and what others have mentioned.. let me know what happens..
(edit) oh yeah and the harness that doesnt have anything plugged into it (next to IACV) goes to the EGR Temp Sensor.. which is screwed into the EGR Guide Tube.. you need to take that off and plug it in and just leave it hangin (ziptied of course) as mentioned.. also your ground does need to be hooked up directly to the motor somewhere (ie lower IM, valve cover, timing chain cover, etc..)
Purple - these two need to be connected. If the circled part underneath the TB is not hooked to vacuum on the UIM then this may be the source of your problem.. That metal line feeds your MAP Sensor and Fuel Pressure Regulator..
Blue - is irrelevant if you got rid of EGR.. That goes directly to your EGR Control Valve Solenoid.. Leave the screw in..
Yellow - needs to go to a clean air source, not vacuum.. anywhere on your midpipe.. as long as it is behind your air filter of course..
Green - these two also connect together.. connected this will complete your EVAP system.. which may also be the source of your problem.. i dont know if this controls the passage of fuel from the tank, or if it just helps the quality..
also you said you had the nipple from the IACV Plate going to the #5 spot on tatanko's diagram correct? if so that is right.. umm nothing else i see other than that and what others have mentioned.. let me know what happens..
(edit) oh yeah and the harness that doesnt have anything plugged into it (next to IACV) goes to the EGR Temp Sensor.. which is screwed into the EGR Guide Tube.. you need to take that off and plug it in and just leave it hangin (ziptied of course) as mentioned.. also your ground does need to be hooked up directly to the motor somewhere (ie lower IM, valve cover, timing chain cover, etc..)
12-06-2006, 08:17 PM
#37
Is this hose setup going to go with every setup used? I know you guys used mostly 5th gen stuff but I'm using mostly 4th gen stuff. 4th, LIM, IACV, TPS, etc. I'm wondering what the gold piece is on the TB??
12-07-2006, 01:55 AM
#38
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Hey ! The darn thing started today ! Cant thank you guys enough for your help. With the new hose diagrams got everything sorted out. And thats the good news.
The Bad, 2 injectors are clogged or not spraying. So on a postive note 4 out of 6 aint bad. So at present guess im in the market for another 5th gen fuel rail with injectors. Thinking I could price 2 new injectors but over here I bet they are going to be expensive, not even sure what the cost back home per injector.
So the max should be up and running as soon as I replace the fuel rail and injectors !!
(2) bum injectors spoiled the party !
The Bad, 2 injectors are clogged or not spraying. So on a postive note 4 out of 6 aint bad. So at present guess im in the market for another 5th gen fuel rail with injectors. Thinking I could price 2 new injectors but over here I bet they are going to be expensive, not even sure what the cost back home per injector.
So the max should be up and running as soon as I replace the fuel rail and injectors !!
(2) bum injectors spoiled the party !