MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Hi all. I wanted to appeal to the Org and see what you all think I should do here. My issue is that I have always had the notorious rattle at 2-3k. Well the other day it was really loud and very persistent. Very unusual compared to how it has cropped up in the past. Long story short I am at 63000K on the car. I brought it in to the local service place that I have used extensively in the past and is the very same place that diagnosed the rattle as "valve-knocking" 10k ago. Well anyways this time they tell me it is because the motor is eating oil. I am currently at 3800 miles since my last oil change. They told me the motor was 3 qts light. Now before I get flamed yes I have been checking the oil. I have never really been able to get a clear dip stick reading. Because of this I have been religous about changing the oil. Synpower every time. Anyways now I am being told the motor is junk and that they attempted to "Goodwill" it through Nissan but apparently was shot down. The question is now I have a modified car that I need to make un modified either to have it serviced potentially under warranty, or traded in on something else. I am just shocked I guess. So what would you all do? Look for a newer 03ish Max? A Z perhaps? Fight Nissan for a new motor?
I would really like any advice or experiences you all might have. Very disappointed out here in NH.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Just out of curiosity, was your car built in the US or Japan?

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

I dont know. I just looked at the sticker in the drivers door. No indication of origin but it does have touring car in French. Where else do you look?

joebangaa

iTrader: (3)

WTF! i hope you're not serious because if you are then that would potentially affect MANY people...including me. i'm pretty sure i know the difference between a knock from an engine and some sort of other rattle...i dont think the 2k+rpm rattle is from the valvetrain...
can we have a real discussion on this and have other people experiencing this sound chime in? this has been one of the few things that really **** me off about the car. from what i've read most people think it has to do with heatshields around the exhaust.. i've been too lazy to even try going down there and start bending stuff.

(i'm could also be experiencing something totally different from you)

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

All 2002 - 2003 were built in Japan.

I think you'd notice 3qts missing. Take it to another mechanic.

Lontar1

iTrader: (5)

unmod the car and try to get a NEW engine......better than getting something else

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Well the 3 qts low sounded like exaggeration to me as well. This is a Nissan dealer here in NH. The thing holds 4.25 qts anyways, so I would have thought at least the light would have been on. The motor has never really tested clearly anyways. I asked the dealer mechs about this and got the typical "dumbcustomer" response of you have to wait about 30 min or more to let the oil settle to get an Accurate test. No kidding. Anyways I have always been really good on the oil changes. Unmodding it means some work though. I dont think I need to touch the suspension stuff, but I think I need to get the UDP, CAI, grounding kit, the fast cat and the exhaust. The one thing I am unsure about undoing is the SAFC. The good thing is that I have EVERY receipt on that car. Every service call including the one at 53000 when I have the rattle complaint logged specifically but better yet I have the sales receipt showing 27000 on the odometer and I have Valvoline recpts in roughly 3000m increments starting with a mileage of 31800. I think I am going to have to go for a new motor. Upgrading my loan would be financially kinda dumb right now. I have only had this car for about 2 1/2 years. So I cant walk in trade it in on something else easily. I am going to call Nissan tomorrow and formally lodge my request. And into the breach!

trigger005

iTrader: (8)

that really sucks man...
havent heard much of vq30de's failing at all
might wanna try looking into junk yards and trying to salvage a motor. Doesn't even have to be from a 5th gen... I think you can use one from a 4th gen as well... just no VIAS.
I agree with salvaging it... must keep rare 6speed alive!
hope you pull through... let us know how it goes.

fishpony

iTrader: (2)

I think he's got a 2k2 which would have a 3.5 in it. i wouldnt want to downgrade to a 3.0 just because they are tougher. If i was NA atleast, boost would be a different story. I would just look around for a used 3.5 and take it to a local mechanic or put it in yourself. or build up a 3.5 while your other one is going out them swap.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully I can get this covered. I see no reason as of right now how they can argue with a documented complaint while under warranty was previously dismissed, just to have the very same concern be diagnosed as indicating a faulty motor 3k over. Tomorrow is the opening of the book.. Def wouldn't want to go down to a 3.0 though. I agree that motor is bomb proof. I need the VIAS. Plus I would imagine any replacement motor would be of the updated design, IE hopefully no oil consumption. I really dont think it has sunk in, I haven't really even gotten mad, just worried.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Just to point out:

4th Gens have VQ30DE (no VI)

5th Gens have VQ30DE-K (with VI)

5.5 Gens have VQ35DE (with VI)

Seems like quite a bit of confusion here....

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I hope so too. All the best.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

ok heres an update....and its not a good one.

I originally filed a request for Goodwill Service with Nissan around 4-12 of this month. I received a call from the regional manager yesterday about what Nissan decided to do in my case.

The answer? Well the best that we can do is to offer to cover 50% of the shop rates to replace the motor. This still works out to over 3000K of my money going into the Nissan coffers. I was rather unhappy with this. I said that I thought it was awful nice of them to offer to not make any money on the fix. I figure that even if I pay the 50% they still have their time and parts covered cost wise. I told them this was a totally unacceptable solution since this was a problem that orginally surfaced, was looked and and dismissed while the vehicle was in warranty. Now that it is 3k over the warranty mileage they are saying I could have done the damage since the last warranty service since they did not diagnose it as eating oil at that time.
Long story short again I was told that alll that was considered and that the 50% deal was the best that they could offer. The other item that sticks in my craw is that they totally deny that ANYONE has problems with oil consumption on the 35. Funny. I have even heard the service manager mention it in conversation. "Yeah, well those 2002s are known to burn a little oil so bring it in and we will check it out." Odd how everyone is denying this problem now that I need a new motor.

After the phonecall with their designated gerbil I picked up the phone and called the Attorney Generals office and talked to the Consumer Protection Board. After I explained the issue to him and the fact that Nissan is refusing to fix a problem that is well documented while under warranty his response is "Whats the problem?".

So I called Nissan back and notified them that I was exceptionally disappointed that they are not stepping up to the plate on this. I also picked up the address for the HQ and the name of the President. I also notified them that I was not going away, I am going to get alot more squeaky on this. I am really disappointed after all the Nissans I have owned and all the good talk I have told countless people about Nissan..well I will still talk, I just wish they would give me a good ending to this mess. Sorry about the rant, if you have any input or better yet actual personal experience please throw your .02 in.

SgtSchulze

iTrader: (6)

Oil issues are notorious with the 3.5. My motor burns oil. I must admit that when I did my first oil change (dealer changed the oil for the first 40k), I had issues reading the damn dipstick etc... I checked it pretty religiously for the first 1500 miles then I let it ride.... Low and behold, after 3300 miles, I get a burr up my a$$ to check it and yep...... at least 2qts low. I contacted the dealer, they ran tests and I have tracked it ever since. I even had Nissan inspect it twice etc... The finally replaced the PCV and told me everything was ok.... Now I have an extended warranty but I'm still concerned that the motor will go.

Whether they admit it or not, the 3.5 has oil issues. Look at how much some of these guys are catching in their DIY Catchcans!?!?

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Well I cant think of too much better of an example than the DIY catch cans. The thing that really pisses me off is the fact they deny it. Sometimes. When I called in for this last service visit the manager actually said "well bring it in and we will check it out. There are a few out there that burn some oil." No kidding. Now that I need a new motor everyone is sticking to the party line. I even found an Infiniti site that a guy was having the same noise and oil consumption. So they replaced the PCV for your oil issue? lol. That thing costs like under 10 bucks right? I just got the exhaust and CAI off the car. Terrible. I can't hear anything motor wise. And I think I can feel a difference shifting between gears. Not as quick as a response going into the next gear. Maybe, I will get on it some more tomorrow.

deanwr

First 2 oil changes it used half a quart but since then hardly any, this is the worst dipstick setup I know of!

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

+1 for bad dipstick design. i dont know how much oil i burn untill i do an oil change, and notice 1.5 qt missing.

can you keep us updated on your situation? i have a feeling my motor is going to burn more and more oil as miles roll by. i would like to know what solution you come up with, in case i have to wage the same fight.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

No problem, I definitely plan too. This is in the initial skirmishes now. I can take this as long and as high as I need to for results. The nice thing is that I have DOCUMENTATION. So I will def keep all you heathens posted to. It is aggravating still (too beat a dead horse) that there are all of us that have these issues but they just deny. I am sure that goatlicker has about 5-6 cases pending at any given time over this same thing with the same rattle complaint. How many people do you see on here complain about a light fast rattle or a light diesel sound? Peace

Vapor

Good thread, many good replies

boondoxmax

iTrader: (1)

Yeah very bad design. I only check my oil after my car has sat all night. First thing in the morning I will check my oil. Only way to get a accurate reading.

jvienneau

My 2c (30 years experience as a mechanic) is that an engine using some oil (less than a quart every 1K miles or so) is considered normal by all manufacturers. It's your responsibility to check the oil, that's why there's a dipstick. An engine that uses oil at that rate will last just as long as one that never burns a drop. There's no correlation. I think the 50% deal is a good offer. Most manufacturers would have told you "too bad, it's out of warranty and you should have checked the oil". Also keep in mind that it's the dealer making the money, not Nissan. I also think you can squeek all you want, but you're not going to get a better offer. On the plus side, it will increase the value of your car since it will be a new factory engine.

chr0nos

iTrader: (1)

how the **** is 1qt normal every couple of k miles normal? are you talking about 15 year old fords or 2 year old japanese cars? i have had several toytoa and honda models that "may" burn 1/4 of a quart every 7500 mile oil change. and thats with well over 100k on the odo. that's what i consider normal for newer japanese cars. i must agree some oil burning is normal, but nissan's spec of 1 qt every 1k miles is rediculous. my friend's 96 max just hit 200k miles, and he hardly burns any oil at all. i think our problem lies in the vq35 design somewhere.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

"engine consumes approx 1.5qts every 1K miles. Per industry standard that is normal, YET the engine holds 5qts of oil and the recomended oil change interval is 10K miles. At this rate the rod bearings will be toast at approx 5K miles"

This is what I wrote on the last oil consumption test I ran on a customers 04 TSX 6spd.

I dunno what Acura will do about it, guy wants a new motor, hes under warranty- only 45K on it.

My 155K mile 01 Max doesn't burn a drop of oil

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

And make sure it was parked on a flat surface all night.

charr82

iTrader: (3)

Is oil consumption on the 3.5L that widespread of a problem?
I'm thinking about purchasing a high mileage '03 but will stay away from it if excessive oil consumption is "normal" for this engine.

MaxDom03

Right now I have an '03 with 89k miles on it, I have ZERO oil consumptions problems. I normally go 4-5k between changes with Valvoline Max Life and have not had any significant oil loss.

boondoxmax

iTrader: (1)

No its not wide spread problem. There is a poll thread up here somewhere and it was only like 3%. I owned an 02 that never burned any oil and my 03 doesn't either......

Max51

My '02 has the same problem. No noise but my motor loves to eat oil. I do my own oil changes and hardly ever let it go over 3k between them. I started noticing the oil consumption about 6 months ago. Last oil change I filled it exactly to the top of the ****ty dipstick. Here I am just over 1k later and it is almost halfway down the dipstick. I have heard the 3.5 consumes some oil but to me I think it is a bit excessive. I always have oil to add when it gets low but I am worried it will get worse as the mileage gets higher. I don't want to have to carry a case of oil in my trunk. I have 51k on it right now and have the extended warranty till 100k. Besides the fact that it burns some oil, the motor runs great. So whats the verdict guys? Is this ok, or is it time to go play war games with the dealer?

Good luck with your case MadMax. Hope they acknowledge your prior claim seeing as you have it all documented.
What really gets me is I take really good care of my car and **** like this happens. I have friends that beat the snot outta thier cars and rarely change fluids. But guess what? Theirs don't burn a drop of oil.

Zero Deuce SE

Exactly. That's the best time to check it and get an accurate reading. If you read the side with the crosshatch pattern you shouldn't have a problem.

charr82

iTrader: (3)

Cool thanks for the info. I'm still doing my research to decide whether I want to buy a 3.5L Max or not.

kbohip

Wow! I was going to post but you took literally all the words right out of my mouth! I have an '02 as well with 56k miles on it. I, like you change my own oil and I filled it up to the top mark on the dipstick. I just checked tonight and the oil is almost halfway down the dipstick after a little over 1,500 miles. This doesn't really bother me though. I consider this normal usage. Some engines do this, most don't. We just got lucky I guess. The one thing I'm going to do though is to switch to regular oil. There's no way I'm dumping extra synthetic in this thing between oil changes.

My sister has an '04 Mazda RX-8 that burns over a quart every 1k miles! Now that's excessive. It even has a low oil light (not oil pressure) to let you know when it needs oil. The only problem is the light is stupid and tends to come on during long highway trips. My other sister had a Ford Probe with the Mazda engine that also burned a ton of oil. It ran perfect until she sold it with 100k miles.

I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't have a problem reading the dipstick at all either. It always gives me a super clear reading. I do wait an hour or so after turning off the engine to check it, but you should do that with every car to get a perfect reading anyway. It's a MUCH better dipstick design than was on my '92 Maxima SE. That thing was impossible to read.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Hi all,
Nissan put a new 3.5 in my car finally! I had to talk to everyone in the company and hear them tell me no but in the end I ended up with a replacement 3.5. That only happened after I sent in my STACK of Valvoline receipts. I was really worried that I was going to have to trade it in on something other than a Nissan: but I am glad they made it right. The motor is running awesome right now. I am still breaking it in, got synthetic oil in there from the start. When I picked up the car I checked the oil and it was crystal clear. Looked literally clear as water. The motor seems to run well, it should it only has 300 something miles on it. I hope this issue doesn't turn out to be widespread, that would be terrible for everyone concerned including Nissan. Anyways thanks all for your .02

Link

GBAUER

iTrader: (2)

It is widespread. 163k miles. 1 qt every 300 miles. I'm looking for a new engine now so I can pull this one and rebuild it right. I've also looked at all the other forums and found that it's universal to all 3.5 nissans up until the 2005 models. Z's and G's were REALLY bad...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Using synthetic oil during the break-in period is a no-no.

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

I can assure you, the DIY Catch Can is not catching 3qts of oil in 5k miles. The catch can is done to maintain the gas octane as any drop of oil entering the stream will lower it. Myself and others have a low rpm ping when blowby from the PCV is strongest.

Mine catches about a Tbsp of gasoline/water/oil mixture in 500 miles of driving.

Congrats though on getting this taken care of. You never said whether you had to pay 50% or if Nissan picked up the whole bill. Either way, it sounds like you had one of the bad ones. Best of luck with your shiny new engine.

DaBoxSE

iTrader: (5)

02 6spd here and I also have an oil consumption issue. Also, anyone else's oil turn almost black after only about 1k miles or so? I've noticed that to be the case with mine. I just hit 100k miles this weekend and I wish I could get a new motor for it...

mdloops

I think you should take a valium and settle down a little bud. The world is not going to end because somebody has a rattle.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Ahhhhh you're a little late to respond there....That post you quoted was posted in early April...

AllGo

iTrader: (1)

2002 Maxima SE, if you are getting oil, water, and gas in your pcv catch can then you may have a head gasket problem. An almost immeasureable amount of fuel will get past the rings on the compression stroke and get into the oil but it certainly would not be noticeable by simply looking at or smelling the oil in the catch can. Water in your oil is an entirely worse situation.

My 2002 pcv catch can may not be catching 3qts every 5k miles but it easily collects 3-4 onces over a 500 mile period which would be roughly 1 quart over a 5000 mile interval. I have been simply recycling the oil in the catch can by pouring it back into the engine and other than that I add maybe 0.5 quarts per 5000 miles of mixed driving. But it seems that some are seeing much higher comsumption into the 2-3 quart range between oil changes and I would guess that some are using the ultrathin synthetics 0w30 and 5w30's out there.

I believe these superthin full synthetics that many use is the main culprit here. These oils are much more prone to atomization from valvetrain and crank movement and consequently the pcv carries quite a bit of this into the intake manifold. It seems apparent that Nissan didn't engineer the baffle systems in the oil pan and valvecovers in the 3.5 engine very well. This would have done a great deal to minimize this type of oil loss.

Further the smaller molecular structure of these synthetics allows much more oil to pass through rings and get burned. I have been running a 10w30 Mobil for the last 6k miles or so and this has mostly eliminated the "burning" of the oil as my oil level is much more consistent and the pcv catch can fills up less often.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE

Congrats though on getting this taken care of. You never said whether you had to pay 50% or if Nissan picked up the whole bill. Either way, it sounds like you had one of the bad ones. Best of luck with your shiny new engine. [/QUOTE]


I paid 485 for non warranty stuff I had them do while they were under there and zero (0) dollars for a new longblock VQ35 motor.

I did have to deal with the rattle issue on the long time before it was rectified though. Then an almost 4 months debating with Nissan Corporate. I am glad they finally made it right but they told me no alot. The big thing is being able to show paperwork outlining your maintenance stuff.


NISMOLOGY: Why is synthetic oil a "no-no" during the break in period?