Electromotive Engine Controls
09-27-2005, 09:23 PM
#1
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Electromotive Engine Controls
Has anyone ever thought about using WinTec3 as an engine control unit? The software seems to be very easy to use and it seems to be a very powerful unit. Has anyone tried this or have any exp. with it on other applications?
WinTEC3- http://www.directignition.com/products/tec3.html
General overview - http://www.directignition.com/products/wintec3d.html
WinTEC3- http://www.directignition.com/products/tec3.html
General overview - http://www.directignition.com/products/wintec3d.html
09-27-2005, 10:20 PM
#2
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I saw a video of a guy on sr20forum that had a destroked qr25 with an sr20 crank I believe and he had direct control of his rev limiter ~on the fly~. Im not sure if this is compatible since no one has had any luck in the past other then a custom ECU, but I'll look into it some more...this will definitly be my choice If I find out it has worked in the past for someone, or will be directly compatible with a VQ series engine.
09-27-2005, 11:34 PM
#3
Tec3 is a great unit. Simple and straightforward, but with enough hidden features to give it great functionality as well for more advanced users. Having 100% control of ignition, fuel, limiters, target AF w/ learned fuel suggestions, etc. is nice, but there is a downside. You start with a zero'd out map and have to go from there. It is not like a piggyback where the stock computer can handle normal driving and you adjust the boosting areas... you control it all! Tec3 also does not have the support available that other standalones have such as AEM.
Install is very straightforward though. Add a wheel to the crank and position a sensor to read from it. Add a MAT, MAP and coolant temp sensor and you are on your way
Run any injector size you want (I run 1680cc injectors, and a friend is using tec to control 3200cc of fuel per cylinder), and eliminate the spark-blowout problem with the good ignition included with Tec3.
Going to a setup like this would allow for more hp to be made while running safer than before! But, the amount of work and money involved is simply not feasible for most.
Install is very straightforward though. Add a wheel to the crank and position a sensor to read from it. Add a MAT, MAP and coolant temp sensor and you are on your way
Run any injector size you want (I run 1680cc injectors, and a friend is using tec to control 3200cc of fuel per cylinder), and eliminate the spark-blowout problem with the good ignition included with Tec3.Going to a setup like this would allow for more hp to be made while running safer than before! But, the amount of work and money involved is simply not feasible for most.
09-28-2005, 05:45 AM
#4
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Thanks for the information, I jus wonder how much the unit actually costs- I couldn't find any price information on it. It didn't look that hard to tune actually, everything is pretty much plug and play, all the features you need to adjust have a simple alt+ hotkey and it shows you the increased value on screen. I downloaded the program last night and I've been playing with it.
Out of all people I wouldn't have expected a response from ol' Hal. Hows the Lexus?
Out of all people I wouldn't have expected a response from ol' Hal. Hows the Lexus?
09-28-2005, 10:57 AM
#6
TecIII systems usually go for $1300-1500+ used...so you can figure the price from that
SDS is another system that would be an option as well and is even more simplistic and maybe user friendly than TECIII, but with pretty much the same principles and functions. a basic one can be had new for arounf $1100.
another cheaper system, but IMO best bang for the buck for a street/strip car is Megasquirt...prices can range from $150 unassembled to $500 for the fully assembled kit with sensors and harnesses. FULL fuel control, ignition control(4,6,8 cylinder) using stock or Ford EDIS coli packs, and other features. I was going to use this on my GTI before I planned to sell it.
SDS is another system that would be an option as well and is even more simplistic and maybe user friendly than TECIII, but with pretty much the same principles and functions. a basic one can be had new for arounf $1100.
another cheaper system, but IMO best bang for the buck for a street/strip car is Megasquirt...prices can range from $150 unassembled to $500 for the fully assembled kit with sensors and harnesses. FULL fuel control, ignition control(4,6,8 cylinder) using stock or Ford EDIS coli packs, and other features. I was going to use this on my GTI before I planned to sell it.
09-28-2005, 11:08 AM
#7
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Prices are always going to be an issue, but Im looking for a 100% compatible system, no bull****. If the TecIII and related systems are known to work, and work well, then I am more than willing to save up and buy a unit. It shouldn't take that long to tune from scratch- maybe a Saturday morning just to get it running decent. Im sure fine tuning takes quite some time with one of those systems.
09-28-2005, 11:45 AM
#9
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When I downloaded the TecIII program last night and installed it, I opened it and it gives you some general templates to run. It askes questions such as cylinder#, 1bar, 2bar etc, other misc questions. Your not exactly starting from scratch, but changing a template as you need to. Then you tune.
I haven't myself, but I have 2 friends that know exactly what there doing. With there guidance (which basically means them doing it for me and teaching me) I have no doubts it could be pulled off in no time.
Keep in mind Jeff I wasn't talking about a perfect tune also, just to get the car driveable is what I had in mind. I know that fine tuning takes a very, very long time
.
I haven't myself, but I have 2 friends that know exactly what there doing. With there guidance (which basically means them doing it for me and teaching me) I have no doubts it could be pulled off in no time.
Keep in mind Jeff I wasn't talking about a perfect tune also, just to get the car driveable is what I had in mind. I know that fine tuning takes a very, very long time
.
09-28-2005, 12:46 PM
#10
Standalone on the maxima has and will be a breakthrough type of experiment. Everyone should remember the trials and tribulations Uncle Max went through with Motec. Well good luck if you do it cool if you try and dont succeed least you tried and that is more than most here will do
09-28-2005, 12:48 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Snowy
It shouldn't take that long to tune from scratch- maybe a Saturday morning just to get it running decent. Im sure fine tuning takes quite some time with one of those systems.
)
09-28-2005, 06:52 PM
#12
Snowy,
Despite a few trials&tribulations, the Lexus is running great! I'm hoping to get on my friends dynodynamics this weekend and tune timing for MBT on 32-36psi should be good times barring any problems! Next week I'm hoping to test/tune Friday night, and run Car Wars on Saturday. (year end 1/4 shootout) I have my fingers crossed... and my toes... etc.
As far as install, though it is going on a Maxima, I don't consider it experimental... it's not like AEM where you have to try and get the factory signals working properly. I would personally yank the stock wiring harness, and just run the few tec3 wires that I need. Hardest part I can think of, is getting the trigger wheel machined onto the crank pulley (no biggie) and making a little bracket to the hold the crank sensor magnet. The rest of it just takes a little time, especially if you want the wires run clean (take the time and do it right!!! big jumble of wires and bad connections will come back to haunt you always!)
While the wizard can help get a car on it's feet with a quickness, it can only do so much. Also, all the fuel modifiers can be a bit much at first - I dumb a bunch of them down to get it running well at first, and add back what I want.
A 0'd out fuel table really does not mean bad things. This past weekend I switched turbos along with other things on my car, and decided it would be easier to start from scratch with fuel and set all 256 points to 0. Keep in mind Tec3 knows the VE (vol. effic.) of the motor, so all you have to do on fuel is tell it +/- to tune (and most of your tuning will be adjusting the whole row equally). I have put about 15 miles on the new setup and have inboost AF holding steady @ 11.5. Tec3 can be a headache in the beginning, I have spent countless hours reading, talking with tec3 tuners, reading and playing more. I was told by one guy who knows tec3 very well and runs it on his 8sec (soon to be 7s) supra that he will sit and make his whole map on his dining room table. Then he plugs it in the car and makes a couple passes keeping a close eye on plugs to clean it up a little bit, and he is finished. I couldn't believe that at first, but I finally understand. Let me know if you do end up using it, I can give you a few pointers to save you a lot of time and frustration... like making sure UAP is right and tuning POT to rev clean before ANYTHING else. While building your first map is not a HUGE nightmare, don't underestimate it as a walk in the park either.
As for price, RPW has the unit for 1850 and 6cyl coils for 160. I am not sure if thats msrp or discounted... I would suggest using Larry @ HP Works in VA to purchase from , he is great! I think he gives me 15% off on emotive parts maybe? Tell him Hal sent you.
Despite a few trials&tribulations, the Lexus is running great! I'm hoping to get on my friends dynodynamics this weekend and tune timing for MBT on 32-36psi
should be good times barring any problems! Next week I'm hoping to test/tune Friday night, and run Car Wars on Saturday. (year end 1/4 shootout) I have my fingers crossed... and my toes... etc.As far as install, though it is going on a Maxima, I don't consider it experimental... it's not like AEM where you have to try and get the factory signals working properly. I would personally yank the stock wiring harness, and just run the few tec3 wires that I need. Hardest part I can think of, is getting the trigger wheel machined onto the crank pulley (no biggie) and making a little bracket to the hold the crank sensor magnet. The rest of it just takes a little time, especially if you want the wires run clean (take the time and do it right!!! big jumble of wires and bad connections will come back to haunt you always!)
While the wizard can help get a car on it's feet with a quickness, it can only do so much. Also, all the fuel modifiers can be a bit much at first - I dumb a bunch of them down to get it running well at first, and add back what I want.
A 0'd out fuel table really does not mean bad things. This past weekend I switched turbos along with other things on my car, and decided it would be easier to start from scratch with fuel and set all 256 points to 0. Keep in mind Tec3 knows the VE (vol. effic.) of the motor, so all you have to do on fuel is tell it +/- to tune (and most of your tuning will be adjusting the whole row equally). I have put about 15 miles on the new setup and have inboost AF holding steady @ 11.5. Tec3 can be a headache in the beginning, I have spent countless hours reading, talking with tec3 tuners, reading and playing more. I was told by one guy who knows tec3 very well and runs it on his 8sec (soon to be 7s) supra that he will sit and make his whole map on his dining room table. Then he plugs it in the car and makes a couple passes keeping a close eye on plugs to clean it up a little bit, and he is finished. I couldn't believe that at first, but I finally understand. Let me know if you do end up using it, I can give you a few pointers to save you a lot of time and frustration... like making sure UAP is right and tuning POT to rev clean before ANYTHING else. While building your first map is not a HUGE nightmare, don't underestimate it as a walk in the park either.
As for price, RPW has the unit for 1850 and 6cyl coils for 160. I am not sure if thats msrp or discounted... I would suggest using Larry @ HP Works in VA to purchase from , he is great! I think he gives me 15% off on emotive parts maybe? Tell him Hal sent you.
09-28-2005, 09:10 PM
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by hlh0501
Snowy,
Despite a few trials&tribulations, the Lexus is running great! I'm hoping to get on my friends dynodynamics this weekend and tune timing for MBT on 32-36psi should be good times barring any problems! Next week I'm hoping to test/tune Friday night, and run Car Wars on Saturday. (year end 1/4 shootout) I have my fingers crossed... and my toes... etc.
As far as install, though it is going on a Maxima, I don't consider it experimental... it's not like AEM where you have to try and get the factory signals working properly. I would personally yank the stock wiring harness, and just run the few tec3 wires that I need. Hardest part I can think of, is getting the trigger wheel machined onto the crank pulley (no biggie) and making a little bracket to the hold the crank sensor magnet. The rest of it just takes a little time, especially if you want the wires run clean (take the time and do it right!!! big jumble of wires and bad connections will come back to haunt you always!)
While the wizard can help get a car on it's feet with a quickness, it can only do so much. Also, all the fuel modifiers can be a bit much at first - I dumb a bunch of them down to get it running well at first, and add back what I want.
A 0'd out fuel table really does not mean bad things. This past weekend I switched turbos along with other things on my car, and decided it would be easier to start from scratch with fuel and set all 256 points to 0. Keep in mind Tec3 knows the VE (vol. effic.) of the motor, so all you have to do on fuel is tell it +/- to tune (and most of your tuning will be adjusting the whole row equally). I have put about 15 miles on the new setup and have inboost AF holding steady @ 11.5. Tec3 can be a headache in the beginning, I have spent countless hours reading, talking with tec3 tuners, reading and playing more. I was told by one guy who knows tec3 very well and runs it on his 8sec (soon to be 7s) supra that he will sit and make his whole map on his dining room table. Then he plugs it in the car and makes a couple passes keeping a close eye on plugs to clean it up a little bit, and he is finished. I couldn't believe that at first, but I finally understand. Let me know if you do end up using it, I can give you a few pointers to save you a lot of time and frustration... like making sure UAP is right and tuning POT to rev clean before ANYTHING else. While building your first map is not a HUGE nightmare, don't underestimate it as a walk in the park either.
As for price, RPW has the unit for 1850 and 6cyl coils for 160. I am not sure if thats msrp or discounted... I would suggest using Larry @ HP Works in VA to purchase from , he is great! I think he gives me 15% off on emotive parts maybe? Tell him Hal sent you.
Despite a few trials&tribulations, the Lexus is running great! I'm hoping to get on my friends dynodynamics this weekend and tune timing for MBT on 32-36psi
should be good times barring any problems! Next week I'm hoping to test/tune Friday night, and run Car Wars on Saturday. (year end 1/4 shootout) I have my fingers crossed... and my toes... etc.As far as install, though it is going on a Maxima, I don't consider it experimental... it's not like AEM where you have to try and get the factory signals working properly. I would personally yank the stock wiring harness, and just run the few tec3 wires that I need. Hardest part I can think of, is getting the trigger wheel machined onto the crank pulley (no biggie) and making a little bracket to the hold the crank sensor magnet. The rest of it just takes a little time, especially if you want the wires run clean (take the time and do it right!!! big jumble of wires and bad connections will come back to haunt you always!)
While the wizard can help get a car on it's feet with a quickness, it can only do so much. Also, all the fuel modifiers can be a bit much at first - I dumb a bunch of them down to get it running well at first, and add back what I want.
A 0'd out fuel table really does not mean bad things. This past weekend I switched turbos along with other things on my car, and decided it would be easier to start from scratch with fuel and set all 256 points to 0. Keep in mind Tec3 knows the VE (vol. effic.) of the motor, so all you have to do on fuel is tell it +/- to tune (and most of your tuning will be adjusting the whole row equally). I have put about 15 miles on the new setup and have inboost AF holding steady @ 11.5. Tec3 can be a headache in the beginning, I have spent countless hours reading, talking with tec3 tuners, reading and playing more. I was told by one guy who knows tec3 very well and runs it on his 8sec (soon to be 7s) supra that he will sit and make his whole map on his dining room table. Then he plugs it in the car and makes a couple passes keeping a close eye on plugs to clean it up a little bit, and he is finished. I couldn't believe that at first, but I finally understand. Let me know if you do end up using it, I can give you a few pointers to save you a lot of time and frustration... like making sure UAP is right and tuning POT to rev clean before ANYTHING else. While building your first map is not a HUGE nightmare, don't underestimate it as a walk in the park either.
As for price, RPW has the unit for 1850 and 6cyl coils for 160. I am not sure if thats msrp or discounted... I would suggest using Larry @ HP Works in VA to purchase from , he is great! I think he gives me 15% off on emotive parts maybe? Tell him Hal sent you.
That would be great. I only live about 20 mins from you, so it should be no big deal. I wouldn't mind peeping the Lexus also, lol.
09-29-2005, 07:53 AM
#16
2 Step + Antilag are added features of management that could help the manual cars run bigger turbos without nitrous - launch in boost and set a secondary limiter hooked to clutch for full throttle shifts that hold full boost. Just need a tranny that could take the power :/ , and big slicks!
Example: building 13psi in 1second in neutral on my 3liter with a 76mm turbo. VIDEO
Example: building 13psi in 1second in neutral on my 3liter with a 76mm turbo. VIDEO
09-29-2005, 02:43 PM
#17
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by hlh0501
2 Step + Antilag are added features of management that could help the manual cars run bigger turbos without nitrous - launch in boost and set a secondary limiter hooked to clutch for full throttle shifts that hold full boost. Just need a tranny that could take the power :/ , and big slicks!
Example: building 13psi in 1second in neutral on my 3liter with a 76mm turbo. VIDEO
Example: building 13psi in 1second in neutral on my 3liter with a 76mm turbo. VIDEO
Thats freaking crazy Hal..
10-01-2005, 10:37 PM
#18
I called electromotive a few years ago with my application, and goals and they told me to kick rocks! I wish I could try, but emissions started this year and if they can't plug into the OBDII port thay fail you automatically. I'll give it a wherl on my Miata/LS1 project. Glad to see you back on the org Hal, don't be a strainger!
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