EGR or not to EGR?
11-04-2004, 03:56 PM
#1
EGR or not to EGR?
I was thinking of going away with the EGR, when I looked at my IM it was covered in black guck. I know the EGR is for Emissions only but there are lots of other little hoses conecting to it. So could it be done or will I have problems?
11-04-2004, 04:02 PM
#2
Originally Posted by japmaxSE
I was thinking of going away with the EGR, when I looked at my IM it was covered in black guck. I know the EGR is for Emissions only but there are lots of other little hoses conecting to it. So could it be done or will I have problems?
With what im doing i have to take it off too. Guy from JWT gave me some resisters to fool the ecu with. Just have to find where i wrote it down and who knows if it will work
11-04-2004, 07:59 PM
#3
I have the 2000 vi coming in the mail do you have to block off the egr system? How many egr ports are there?
-block?
-intake manifold?
-rear header?
Are those correct and are there any other, I want to take out the whole system too?
-block?
-intake manifold?
-rear header?
Are those correct and are there any other, I want to take out the whole system too?
11-05-2004, 06:09 AM
#4
Originally Posted by japmaxSE
I was thinking of going away with the EGR, when I looked at my IM it was covered in black guck. I know the EGR is for Emissions only but there are lots of other little hoses conecting to it. So could it be done or will I have problems?
11-05-2004, 06:55 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
i've removed my EGR system along with bypassing my PCV..my intake manifold stays as clean as a whistle and the car actually runs better but that may be from a non-working EGR system but i'll never know as i cannot find the valve, cut the tube and plugged the vac line. the black soot is from the EGR, the oily buildup is from the PCV, together they make mud. not sure what your ECU is going to say about removing the EGR i know mine hasnt thrown a code yet for anything (even when i initially started the car and didnt have the MAF or O2 plugged in :doh: )
11-05-2004, 03:30 PM
#6
Originally Posted by nismology
Well EGR reduces combusion chamber temperatures at partial throttle where the A/F ratio is close to 14.7:1 (stoich). If you don't run the EGR the combustion temps might get so high that they cause knocking and the ECU will retard timing. Apart from being bad for the environment, no EGR might cause partial throttle hesitation in the mid-range. I should know, my EGR is temporarily disconnected and I get that hesitation from time to time. WOT is fine though.
11-06-2004, 06:35 AM
#8
Originally Posted by japmaxSE
So you just unpluged it? nothing else.
Gonna have it cleaned out eventually though.
11-06-2004, 02:55 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,105
Originally Posted by Mizeree_X
At WOT the EGR valve stays closed so I really don't see much of a point in disconnecting it for the 1-2HP it may give you at partial throttle. It has lots of benefits, too.
in my specific case, my EGR caused strange idle (high, low, hunting, stalling), inconsistant EGT at idle, a slight stumble at low throttle. i plugged the vac line, cut and welded the tube shut, removed the valve and used a gasket and block plate. i'm guessing my system was very broken because i know it shouldnt do that..the only benefit i see from removing a good working EGR system is that the intake manifold wont get a ton of carbon in it..
11-06-2004, 06:19 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Mizeree_X
At WOT the EGR valve stays closed so I really don't see much of a point in disconnecting it for the 1-2HP it may give you at partial throttle. It has lots of benefits, too.
:
11-07-2004, 07:57 AM
#14
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by nismology
I didn't disconnect it for a HP gain. Read my first reply. I actually said it can hurt performance in the mid-range.:
:It worked very well however your NOx emissions will increase significantly due to the increased CC temps.
11-07-2004, 09:14 AM
#15
Originally Posted by eng92
Actually that is the opposite of how the Toyota guys think. Years ago when I had my Supra, one of the quick and dirty mods to improve throttle response was to disconnect the EGR vacuum line and plug it.
It worked very well however your NOx emissions will increase significantly due to the increased CC temps.
It worked very well however your NOx emissions will increase significantly due to the increased CC temps.
11-07-2004, 10:18 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by nismology
You can't compare a turbo car to an N/A car. Turbo cars are designed to run relatively rich (compared to n/a) during partial throtte acceleration.
This was years ago. They didn't start putting turbos on supras till '87. Mine was an 84. They didn't have knock sensors in "those days" to pull timing.
Of course reduced CC temps will reduce the possibility of knocking. You would need to have a map of EGT vs RPM for various throttle positions with and without EGR to know if it is an issue or not.
11-07-2004, 06:48 PM
#17
Can someone come up with a definiative answer as to weather or not it lets the engine run better? I'm fairly sure I'm going to disconnect my PCV but I can't decide about the EGR. I can understand that it allows the IM to stay cleaner longer. But does it actually hurt part throttle performance? I'm asking for a positive answer not hypothetical. What are the benifits of the EGR system?
11-07-2004, 08:52 PM
#18
The EGR system basically lowers combustion chamber temperatures to reduce NOx emmisions. Removing the EGR system will cause higher CC temps at partial throttle which might lead to knocking. This knocking causes the ECU to retard ignition timing, hurting performance. I have experienced this in my car with the EGR temporarily disconnected.
With all that said, its main purpose is reducing emmisions. I'll be reconnecting mine as soon as i figure out what exactly is causing my 0302 code.
With all that said, its main purpose is reducing emmisions. I'll be reconnecting mine as soon as i figure out what exactly is causing my 0302 code.
11-08-2004, 11:21 AM
#23
Originally Posted by spanishrice
all my car does is ping. I havent heard one other maxima at idol ping like mine does. I don't know why it does it. I need to check my codes.
11-08-2004, 08:14 PM
#25
Originally Posted by krismax
Maybe BSWITHTF can posts his pics of what and where he took the rgr stuff off . He took his whole system off
With what im doing i have to take it off too. Guy from JWT gave me some resisters to fool the ecu with. Just have to find where i wrote it down and who knows if it will work
With what im doing i have to take it off too. Guy from JWT gave me some resisters to fool the ecu with. Just have to find where i wrote it down and who knows if it will work
11-08-2004, 11:11 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Broaner
How are you guys dealing with the higher temps and knocking issues? Toulene or higher than 93?
I think its the leaking headgasket and old engine with alot more power than stock.
Ill see what happens with my new engine .
11-09-2004, 07:15 AM
#29
Okay. How 'bout the rest of you? How are you dealing with knock prone combustion chamber? If run with the correct fuel(Above 93) does it all become more powerful? Where are those pics? J/k take your time. I'm removing my IM and rear VC next week and I want to do this while I'm in there. What size resistors did you use and where do they go? I don't remember any sensors back there besides the one with two wires right where the pipe meet the IM. Any others?
11-09-2004, 07:25 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Broaner
What size resistors did you use and where do they go? I don't remember any sensors back there besides the one with two wires right where the pipe meet the IM. Any others?
The resistor would go in place of the EGR solenoid. You could just measure the DC resistance of the solenoid and go form there.
11-10-2004, 12:10 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Broaner
Which solenoid is this? The one that connects to the IM. I must be blind cause I can't find any EGR diagrams in the FSM. What are they entitled and under which section?
Credit: Dave Sz
11-11-2004, 05:10 AM
#35
Originally Posted by Broaner
Which solenoid is this? The one that connects to the IM. I must be blind cause I can't find any EGR diagrams in the FSM. What are they entitled and under which section?
11-11-2004, 11:15 AM
#36
Thanks. You have a 95 FSM? I've been working off a 99 this whole time. The emissions things are really the only differences. Could you please upload a pic for me of that page. Or maybe just email me the 95 FSM? Hmmm.... Thanks again.
11-11-2004, 11:17 AM
#37
Originally Posted by Broaner
Thanks. You have a 95 FSM? I've been working off a 99 this whole time. The emissions things are really the only differences. Could you please upload a pic for me of that page. Or maybe just email me the 95 FSM? Hmmm.... Thanks again.
11-17-2004, 10:45 AM
#38
This article in MotorAge is very informative. It helped me understand what the EGR does for fuel mileage. I really can't sum it up cause there is so much good information in the article. It really makes me wonder if removing it does anything but keep the IM cleaner. I know mine is partially if not fulley clogged. The article also says that if the ECU detects low EGR flow it will retard the timing to protect everything. Due to this informaion I must ask if this is the case w/ the Max ECU. To those that have removed it, have you noticed lower ignition advance? This could also explain why the ignition advance gradually retards as the car gets older. As it gets more and more plugged the advance is retarded more and more. I'll be cleaning this mother like non other when I pull the engine.
Spanishrice, this article says that EGR is not active at all during idle.
BTW, I have a 95 FSM now so I don't need one.
Spanishrice, this article says that EGR is not active at all during idle.
BTW, I have a 95 FSM now so I don't need one.
11-17-2004, 05:58 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Broaner
This article in MotorAge is very informative. It helped me understand what the EGR does for fuel mileage. I really can't sum it up cause there is so much good information in the article. It really makes me wonder if removing it does anything but keep the IM cleaner. I know mine is partially if not fulley clogged. The article also says that if the ECU detects low EGR flow it will retard the timing to protect everything. Due to this informaion I must ask if this is the case w/ the Max ECU. To those that have removed it, have you noticed lower ignition advance? This could also explain why the ignition advance gradually retards as the car gets older. As it gets more and more plugged the advance is retarded more and more. I'll be cleaning this mother like non other when I pull the engine.
Spanishrice, this article says that EGR is not active at all during idle.
BTW, I have a 95 FSM now so I don't need one.
Spanishrice, this article says that EGR is not active at all during idle.
BTW, I have a 95 FSM now so I don't need one.
I know the focus sport ecu disables the egr system ,i wonder why they see the need to do that?Well this is what they say who knows if it applies to our cars???
"EGR system disabled
The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system will pull a fraction of the exhaust gases from your exhaust manifold and re-introduce them to the engine. This process results in cleaner air being emitted from your exhaust system, but it also introduces air into the engine that is not only un-metered (is not measured or compensated for by the Mass Air Flow Sensor), but is also extremely hot and reduces the density of the air your engine is taking in. Those of you who are familiar with the "DPFE Stumble" know all-too-well what happens when too much EGR is applied by the engine. By default, the EGR System is disabled at WOT (wide open throttle) from the factory, but disabling the EGR System entirely, with an FS/SCT chip will make the car run smoother and better across the entire power band, regardless of throttle position."