9maximuz8

hey guys
i just recently got my NX kit #20923 and i do know some stuff about nitrous but i think i still need to know more. My question is what things do i need to run safe with a 75shot wet kit. i know i need another fuel T, colder spark plugs, purge kit, bottle heater, in cabin nitrous pressure gauge. That is about all i know im not planing on going with higher shots anytime soon, so if you guys dont mind telling me if there is any other gauges or whatever else i need to get.
yes i know a lot of people like me have already asked this question
thank you

TAPOUT

iTrader: (5)

With a wet kit, you pretty much have everything you need listed.

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

Get a walbro 190 high flow (not high pressure) fuel pump. Also get a fuel pressure gauge and either egt gauge or a real wideband o2 gauge.

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Currently running a wet 75-shot without gauges. The only things I needed were the FP that SonicDust mentioned, colder plugs, and a stronger clutch. Of course, I didn't need the clutch until I had been already been spraying the 75-shot I have the purge thang and the bottle heater too, but you don't need those to run safely, they're more along the lines of improving the performance of the kit.

I'm probably running a little rich, but I'll take that over running lean anyday of the week.

BoostedED9

does anyone have a/f charts of how their car ran on different shots????

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

sorry but what's the difference between high flow and high pressure walbro pump and which one is better for boost in generala nd NA operation

JAIMECBR900

Don't mean to flame, but this is not very good advice.

You absolutely need gauges in a nitrous setup. How do you know if you're running lean or not? How do you know if you've got enough FP? How do you know what the bottle pressure is? How can you tune the car w/o getting the bottle to 975-1050 psi (i.e. bottle heater)?

You should have an EGT gauge or true wideband gauge/monitor and a FP (if dry) atleast to avoid problems later.

Running nitrous w/o gauges is like playing golf in the dark. You may be able to hit it, but you have no clue where its gonna end up.

I KNOW first hand what a VQ motor cost. I had 2 of them sitting on engine stands in my garage for projects for quite a while. So, trust me, when you spend money replacing your first engine because you skimped on buying a $100 gauge.....you'll remember somebody telling you that you can run nitrous SAFELY w/o gauges.

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Its only a 75-shot. Provided your car is in good mechanical order, you can just run the jets NX recommends and be fine. NX has the kits leaning a bit towards the rich side anyway.

I know I have enough FP because I put a bigger pump in. As mentioned earlier, it may be running rich, but thats better than lean. And I know the bottle pressure because NX included the bottle pressure gauge with the kit I bought


No tuning is necessary with a sub-100 shot NX wet kit. And if the bottle pressure is too low, its only gonna not spray at all (safety switch thingy) or run rich when it does spray, which isn't gonna hurt anything except the cat.

Yeah, it definitely wouldn't be a bad idea later down the road, but he can get by without it for now.

I'm glad you have extensive experience with the VQ motor and all, but we're just talking about a 75-shot on an NX wet kit, it doesn't get much simpler than that. If we were talking about a bigger shot or a dry kit, then I'd totally agree with you.

JAIMECBR900

So what you're saying is that just because it's "only" a 75 shot it can't do any harm? Gotcha. The car's mechanical shape has zero to do with the nitrous' setup tuning, maybe how it can handle nitrous, but nothing to how the setup is tuned.



WOW! Are you kidding me??? I hope so. So, let me get this straight....you KNOW that you have "enough" FP simply because you put in another pump??? A MECHANICAL PART that can fail at any time or malfunction? Wouldn't it be smarter to get a $100 FP gauge to make sure you ACTUALLY ARE so you don't end up making a $1500 mistake? BTW, how do you "know" you're running rich or lean w/o a gauge? Also how can you read what the bottle pressure is with the "bottle pressure gauge with the kit you bought"....ESP?




The original poster wasn't asking how simple the setup is to install, he was asking what was necessary to keep it safe.

As I said before, if YOU want to keep rolling the dice and run nitrous blind that's on YOU. Just don't tell other people that is a safe way to do it because it's not. Using your logic, just because a gun doesn't go off the first time when playing Russian roulette that makes it safe every other trigger pull. You've managed to avoid an easily avoidable problem so far. Just consider yourself lucky instead of good.

You may not "need" 5 gauges, but you definetly need a couple to keep an eye on conditions that change quickly DURING operation. I'd rather spend $300 to help me save my $1500 engine.

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

What "tuning" is there to do with an NX wet kit? Unless you have a SAFC, you just put the jets in that it says in the back of the manual.


Yes, I KNOW I have enough FP because I put in a bigger pump that is known and rated to pump more fuel. Its not rocket science. Maybe if I was spraying a 125 shot I might want to look into it a little more, but I'd probably still be fine, seeing as Jime used the same fuel pump to get him by on a 200-shot.

Because NX wet kits naturally run a little rich.

And I've heard people say that the fuel pump I'm using makes the FP go up ~6 psi, which is going to result in a rich condition. I can say with utmost certainty that I'm not running lean.

ESP??? Joo are so funny.

Here's how I do it. Before my run, I walk to the back of the car and open the trunk. I look at the little gauge (that came with the kit) on the bottle and see if its in the green (~1000psi). Then I close the trunk and go do my run.


Yes, I know. And you might want to go back and read that he was asking about what he needs for a NX WET 75-SHOT. A lot of people on here have run a wet 75-shot with no gauges and no problems. Its not like he's asking about a direct-port set-up that actually does need tuned.


Like I said before, this info is for a wet 75-shot with the most common kit on the org. If the variables were changed, then sure, gauges would be wonderful, but by no means are they necessary for what the original poster is running. Anyway, I'm gonna leave you with a quote from Jime.

9maximuz8

ok boys no need to fight!!
thanx to both of you tho

JAIMECBR900

That's a great way to "tune" your car. Even in your precious manual it advices to have a professional do the final tuning. Merely "putting in the jets" only sets the approx HP level and approx tuning. If you're smart, you'll put the car on a dyno and check it, under load, with a wideband, and REALLY tune it.




You "know" because the FP you're using is "known and rated" at something? Kinda like saying "it worked before, so it SHOULD work now"......talk about rocket science. Brilliant. Go ahead and keep making assumptions, since we all KNOW what assumptions eventually net you.

BTW, are you using a FPR? Because if memory serves me correct, Jime is and probably HAS TO to go to those power levels. I know I did. If you're NOT using a FPR, you won't ever flow the fuel he or I do. Therefore, rocket scientist, just because you are using the same 190 Walbro pump he and I use DOESN'T mean YOU are flowing as much as we are. Yes, the pump can go there, but not w/o a FPR. You are simply ensuring that when the demand is there, your pump won't peter out like the stocker is likely to with extended use.



Ever heard of an oximoron? How do YOU know that NX kits run rich? Have you gone to the dyno and tested that on YOUR car?

You've HEARD people say, yet you can say with "utmost certainty"? Hmmm, isn't that a little strange? You HEARD someone say something and now you are guaranteeing that same heresay as gospel? Makes sense to me......


I can read perfectly fine, obviously you glossed over one key part of his request. He said SAFELY, which leaves a lot of room for both opinion and experience. I happen to have both.

Just because "a lot of people on here" have used a wet kit doesn't mean that also "a lot of people" haven't also messed up their cars either. YOU may want to go back and do a little research yourself. I've not only been on the org longer, but also been using nitrous exponentially longer too. As a matter of fact, the one thing that shows me you have some potential is the fact that you're atleast listening to someone that knows a little something, Jime.

I've ran every type of nitrous setup possible on my max. From dry (all the way to 100 shot) to single wet (to 100 shot) to DPI (to 125 shot), so I'm far from a newbie at this. I certainly would never advice a newbie to run any kind of decent shot blind. That's not prudent advice. It's a bargain basement advice. There are a ton of ways that a nitrous system can malfunction. The majority we can't even monitor if we wanted to. And it is true that if a catastrophic failure occurs, you're pretty much FUBAR even with gauges. But there have been lots of less extreme failures spotted with the use of quality gauges too.


YOU don't seem to get it. There ARE changing variables in any nitrous setup. I've only seen one setup, that was ultra elaborate, that had both electronic and manual devices to make it safe enough to run totally blind. It was ultra custom and ultra expensive.

Again, using your logic, is like saying that you don't need a speedo in the car because you "know" what 65 mph feels like, or you don't need a fuel gauge because you put $5 in gas and you "know" how long that will last you for, or maybe you don't need a temp gauge either because you'll pull over if smoke starts to billow out from under the hood.........that totally sounds smart huh? Well, that's the same logic you're using to justify NOT using gauges.

Even if we use YOUR best case scenario of simply running rich all the time which according to you "doesn't hurt anything but the cat" (and O2 sensors and plugs), why would you even do that when a cat for our cars costs well over what any gauge costs? So let's run rich all the time, which doesn't blow motors, but screws up $500 cats, $100 O2 sensors, and $50 plugs instead of buying a $100 gauge that could've avoided all that in the first place????? Talk about rocket science.

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Their "approx" HP levels and tuning are working fine for me. As mentioned earlier, NX doesn't want people going out an blowing their motors as a result of using their product so they are naturally going to make them a little on the rich side. If I wanted to get the most bang for my buck, then throwing it on the dyno and REALLY tuning it would be the thing to do.


WTF??? Both the manufacturer and experienced users know that the fuel pump will flow more fuel. And yes, if it worked before for a number of others, then, yes, it will work now. That's why we all post on this board, to gain knowledge learned from other's experiences. Did you purchase every single suspension set-up out there and install each one to see how they worked or did you just read, talk to people, and find out about the different ones?

No, I'm not using a FPR. I know that I should be, but again, all I'm doing is running a little rich because of it. Not having a regulator w/ the pump I'm using isn't going to make me run lean.

And I don’t intend to keep running without a FPR, its just what I have to do to get by for now ($$$)


No, but I have heard of an oxymoron.



See my earlier quote:
I also know with "utmost certainty" that I'm not running lean because I know if the vehicle I'm driving everyday is running lean. I used to race carbureted motocross bikes that had to be jetted for swings in temperature and elevation. Consequently, I have a fair amount of experience in telling whether I'm running rich, lean, or just right.


Please find me one instance of someone else using a NX wet 75-shot that blew their motor up but could've been avoided by using gauges. (Which wasn't a result of human error/stupidity or a non-related simultaneous failure or another part/piece.)

I'm not saying that as a challenge. If there have been instances like that, then maybe I need to rethink my stance on the subject.

Oh my fault, I didn’t know you had been on the .org 6 months longer than me. Had I known, I never would’ve questioned your knowledge.

Please tell me that story again about how you had two VQs sitting in your garage. I just love glossing over your automotive resume`


I never ran out of fuel or overheated any of my gauge-less motorcycles

Because I’ll just replace it with a $50 test-pipe

Yeah, it does come down to opinion, which is where we seem to be butting heads. And thats when arguments...oops, I mean discussions start becoming fruitless, as is the case of this one.

I’m sure someone else could come in and argue that in order to run nitrous safely a J&S Safeguard is absolutely necessary. It all just comes down to what we define as acceptable risk, and we obviously have different opinions on what is acceptable. Hopefully 9maximuz8 can take something from the both of us and use it to help him with his decision (which you know is 2 months old anyway )

Have a happy New Year Jaime.

JAIMECBR900

Boy you love to ASSume, huh? Do what you want, just don't sit there and preach it to newbies as gospel. Especially when even by your admission you're basing all this "knowledge" on heresay and word of mouth since you haven't even taken your own car to the dyno to tune it once, so you AGAIN are ASSuming what you're preaching since you have no clue what is ACTUALLY happening in YOUR car.





Yet again ANOTHER ASSumption. YOU don't know because YOU don't have ANY way of KNOWING what's going on under your nose, you're running blind remember. One sentence you admit you should have something and the very next one you try and justify it by saying everything is fine though. Quit riding the fence. Pick a side.

Now now....why would you NEED a FPR if you KNOW you're flowing enough fuel and YOU are FINE running "rich"???? It seems like we've come full circle now: "running blind is ok cause NX "SAID" it runs rich, so I'm ok", then "I don't need to verify that on a dyno cause NX "SAYS" they don't want you to tune it", to then "I'm not running a FPR, although I should, because I don't have enough $$$" (like I previously hinted around to).

On a wet setup, the only reason to have a FPR is to TUNE THE CAR BETTER. It is the ONLY way to keep yet another variable of the equation steady. The only reason YOU would, admitedly, get one is to TUNE YOUR CAR BETTER. Then why are you sitting here telling a newbie HE doesn't need anything else????? That's been my point to you all along. You just proved my point that it's not SMART to run blind ALL the time. With a 30-50 shot, fine. With a 75+ shot, it's not SMART. Possible, yes. SMART, NO.



Wow! When was the last time you got your BUTT DYNO calibrated???? Maybe you should charge your buddies to use it that way you'll have enough money for your FPR.......

Again, you're using two totally different and opposing technologies as your "knowledge" base. So now, "since I rode a DIRT bike that need to be JETTED in their CARBURATORS, I know when something is running LEAN by simply sitting on it". Got it.

Again, charge your buddies BUTT DYNO time to make you some money then. In a CAR, running lean for even a second (under certain conditions) will result in definite engine problems. YOU wanna gamble that on YOUR car based on YOUR vast experience with DIRT BIKES, be my guest. Again, just don't sit here and preach it to newbies as a SAFE way of doing things.


Great, "knowledgeable" AND funny too???

Again, you may wanna do your own research on that. It's not about how long I've been on the org by itself, it's how long and how many different setups I'VE personally installed, tuned, raced, and had on MY MAX BEFORE YOU ever decided to install your first one on YOUR car. THAT is what you should think about, not that I've been here for 6 mos more than you. As a matter of fact, for a while my car was one of the fastest N2O cars at the track. Many have surpassed me now I'm sure, but I was on the board as one of the fastest N2O cars around at least once. Can YOU say that? I guess I got there by not KNOWING anything about N2O, huh?

THAT relates to CARS in which way again???????



The only statement you've made that I agree with. "Acceptable" risk to you may be one thing, but preaching that as "acceptable" risk to everyone else is another.

And you're absolutely right, it's obvious I'm not going to convince you that running 75+ shot BLIND is NOT smart, and there's no way in this world you are going to convince me it is.

You'll remember this conversation again I'm sure. Unfortunately for you it will be when it's too late to do anything but pay the bill.

RichP23

iTrader: (1)

Interesting...

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Jesus H. Christ, its not running lean. Yes, I ASSume that just like I ASSume the sun will come up tomorrow. Why the hell would NX make a kit that runs lean and then why would it be the kit of choice here on the .org?

Without messing with other parts of the fuel delivery system, a bigger, better flowing fuel pump is not going to give me less FP. It may give me more FP though. The only reason I should get a FPR is because the FP I'm using may give me a few more PSI than stock, which, again, IS ONLY GOING TO MAKE ME RUN RICH, NOT LEAN!!!!

Here is what Jime had to say about it: Still wanna argue?



Was that a personal shot at my economic status?

I knew how to tell on a motocross bike by looking at the same things you do on cars. Plugs, exhaust, etc. Is that as good as a dyno? No, but its been doing me fine.




It says in your profile that you ran a 13.335. If I ran a 13.335 on a direct port 125-shot, I'd stop worrying about the necessity of gauges and start worrying about how pi55-poor of a driver I was.


Oh, my fault. I guess when you add two extra wheels, all the concepts of a combustion engine completely change.




Agreed, and thats why we need to drop this.

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

Pass the Pop this way.

SeaFoam2DMax

Jesus tap-dancing christ, this thing is still alive!!!??

JAIMECBR900

Why would any manufacturer MAKE a kit to go lean???? They don't genius. OMG, so its the "kit of choice" on the org so suddenly THAT makes it OK to run blind huh? YOU make about as much common sense as a dodo popsicle...



Hmmm, let me get this straight....in YOUR world you WANNA run RICHER for what reason again???? For SAFETY????? Hmmmm, kinda like going around your elbow to get to your a$$hole, huh? How is THAT gonna net you any MORE HP? Wait, in your parallel universe RICHER=more HP, got it......



Figured you'd take it that way, although YOU said YOU couldn't AFFORD a FPR right now. I guess I was trying to help you get there by selling some of your butt dyno time to supplement your income.....you know, since it's SOOOO accurate......LOL.




I guess YOU didn't get it last time so I'll go slower for ya this time......butt dyno=about as accurate as weather forecasts in GA, motorcross bikes=nothing like a car in any way except being a means of transportation, YOU using it as an analogy to show YOU KNOW what lean is because YOU FELT it on your dirt bike before=priceless.

Do you get it now? A 2 stroke dirt bike that uses a single carburator compared to a 4 cycle engined CAR that uses ECU and individual injectors is like comparing apples to walnuts. No where on the same planet, especially when discussing nitrous. How many dirt bikes did you run nitrous on?????



I'll tell you what, I'll be happy to run you title for title whenever you're ready. Feel a froggy? Wanna bet against this pi55-poor driver? I doubt it. Wait, let's check and see in YOUR profile how FAST your ride is with this untuned and no gauges nitrous kit that's perfectly safe all the time from factory.........hmmm, 13.9@99....last I checked THAT is SLOWER than my best time????....yet you wanna talk smack?

That wimpy (according to you) 13.3 @108mph was done with 100 shot DRY and 16" half bald street tires, with full interior, full stereo, and half a tank of gas. I ran the 125 DPI with slicks and UNtuned and never ran better times BECAUSE it was untuned and probably netting LESS HP than my TUNED 100 shot dry that DYNO'D at over 300whp back when only Supercharged guys ran close to 300whp. So with "only" 25 more HP, I ran a full .5 sec faster than you with an older car and 150,000 miles? Bad driver, huh? I'll be happy to meet you at the track anytime you feel froggy.

I warned you to do your research and quit ASSuming stuff. Come talk crap about me when you can climb up on the front porch with the big dogs. Until then, you're nothing more than a yap yap chihuahua to me since you haven't PROVEN anything yet. Bring YOUR timeslips when you wanna talk crap about mine.




Actually Einstein, when comparing a 2 stroke to a 4 cycle motor, YES there is in fact a complete difference in concepts. So now you're proving my points for me???? Excellent.

SeaFoam2DMax

hmmm, seems to be devolving into personal attacks. Everybody step back and rub one out.

RichP23

iTrader: (1)

See 9maximuz8... Look what you started!

j/k

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Yes, richer is generally safer. Its not gonna get me the most power, but I know its not gonna go boom, which is kinda what this thread is all about, safety.


Listen, I never said I could feel if my car was running rich/lean.


You know many of the competitive motocross bikes are four-stroke right?

This is where you put your foot in your mouth. That time was ran with a full interior, bald yoko all-seasons, 105K miles, a half tank of gas, in August, @ 1500 ft, on a 50-shot.

Like you just did about that time in my sig


In regards to the above, its obvious that you're no longer as concerned with helping out 9maximuz8 as you are with trying to win this argument.

Seriously, "I'll be happy to run you title for title ". What the hell, you gonna meet me somewhere in the middle of the country so we can drag race for pinkslips in the name of an internet argument?

If you have anything else to say, how about PM'ing me instead of whoring this thread up?

Bags

iTrader: (3)

As you can see, people's opinions differ on "safety". What may be safe to me, may not be safe to you.

The whole gauges discussion is a big argument. People have a hard time saying don't use them. They are cheap compared to the cost of a new motor. But, if your on a limited budget, they may as well be a new motor. I would reccomend the use of gauges, I am a MODERATOR here... so if I say something, it directly affects this website. So I error on the side of caution

Not saying bluebird or jaime is correct or incorrect. They just do it differently. If you choose NOT to run gauges, it would be a good idea to DYNO TUNE. I use the word TUNE, VERY loosely.

Without an adjustable FPR or SAFC(any air fuel controller) you can't really TUNE you nitrous. Unless you swap jets.

What I am recommending you do is go dyno tune, using a Wide Band o2 sensor. That way you will KNOW for FACT what your A/F ratio is. This way there is no guessing. Without the above mentioned parts, you can't change it, but you will know what it is. 12.5:1 use to be the industry standard, now shops are doing 12:1 and even 11.5:1

Just becareful, if you go in the 10:1 area or lower, borewash become an issue.

If you have more questions, just keep asking, as long as they are not in the FAQ's

Everyone here will be more than happy to help and ***** your thread