Supra is DOA

[bigleman]

Toyota Supra is DOA, FJ Cruiser won't be refreshed, more hybrids on the way
Posted Aug 15th 2008 11:35AM by Damon Lavrinc
Filed under: Coupes, Hybrids/Alternative, Minivans/MPVs, Sedans/Saloons, Green, Crossovers/CUVs, Toyota


Click above for a high-res gallery of the Toyota FT-HS concept.

A report by Automotive News detailing Toyota's future products reveals that the automaker's focus will be realigned to meet new fuel efficiency standards and limiting high-powered and niche offerings.

On the hybrid side, the new Prius will debut in Detroit, with sales beginning in the spring of 2009 as a 2010 model. The nickel-metal hydride battery will remain, and because of that, the plug-in model will be delayed until a lithium ion battery is offered. The new Prius will be packing the Corolla's 1.8-liter four cylinder and the car will be an inch wider and a half-inch longer. The second hybrid model might not come to Detroit, but development is currently under way and sales will be limited to Japan.

The Supra revival has been shelved due to high mpg requirements, allowing Toyota to focus on its RWD coupe, jointly developed by Subaru. Also, there's only room for one body-on-frame SUV from the automaker, so the 4Runner will be re-engineered for the 2010 model year, will debut in either New York or Chicago, and the FJ Cruiser will complete its lifecycle and be dropped in the next few years.

The Sienna and Venza will be equipped with hybrid drivetrains in 2012, with the Sienna receiving a facelift late next year, along with more cargo space and room for third-row occupants.

The report goes on to state that the Corolla will be redesigned in 2013, along with the Matrix, the next Camry will receive a facelift in 2010, with the new model debuting in 2012, and the new Avalon will debut in 2011 as a 2012 model.

[mtrai760]

Oh well, just one more car I wouldn't be able to afford anyway.

[ChrisMan287]

Originally Posted by mtrai760

Oh well, just one more car I wouldn't be able to afford anyway.

Damn that's the same for me too. What a shame.

[irish44j]

see, Toyota makes the hard choices to eliminate niche, low-volume vehicles. A good business model. Sell more Priuses and hybrids, make more money.

The American companies could learn something. GM spending alot of money hyping the new Camaro, when they're not gonna sell that many. Same with Dodge and the Challenger. American companies need to focus more on making what the GENERAL POPULATION wants, not worrying about a handful of "enthusiasts" IMHO...

Plus, if everyone has to drive Camrys, that will make my car look better in comparison

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by irish44j

see, Toyota makes the hard choices to eliminate niche, low-volume vehicles. A good business model. Sell more Priuses and hybrids, make more money.

The American companies could learn something. GM spending alot of money hyping the new Camaro, when they're not gonna sell that many. Same with Dodge and the Challenger. American companies need to focus more on making what the GENERAL POPULATION wants, not worrying about a handful of "enthusiasts" IMHO...

Plus, if everyone has to drive Camrys, that will make my car look better in comparison

i agree 100% irish...but the new camry is pretty damn hot. with the factory lip kit it's better looking then a 5th gen

[illlojik]

Originally Posted by irish44j

see, Toyota makes the hard choices to eliminate niche, low-volume vehicles. A good business model. Sell more Priuses and hybrids, make more money.

The American companies could learn something. GM spending alot of money hyping the new Camaro, when they're not gonna sell that many. Same with Dodge and the Challenger. American companies need to focus more on making what the GENERAL POPULATION wants, not worrying about a handful of "enthusiasts" IMHO...

Plus, if everyone has to drive Camrys, that will make my car look better in comparison

well said

[Magikone69]

Originally Posted by irish44j

see, Toyota makes the hard choices to eliminate niche, low-volume vehicles. A good business model. Sell more Priuses and hybrids, make more money.

The American companies could learn something. GM spending alot of money hyping the new Camaro, when they're not gonna sell that many. Same with Dodge and the Challenger. American companies need to focus more on making what the GENERAL POPULATION wants, not worrying about a handful of "enthusiasts" IMHO...

Plus, if everyone has to drive Camrys, that will make my car look better in comparison

couldnt agree more, toyota is thinking ahead with comfortable fuel efficient automobiles that speak to the people. Its no wonder why they are so successful.

My thinking is, since toyota is already so successfull and things are only getting better...wouldnt it be nice for them to crown their success in the automotive industry with a Halo sports car? Even if it was only for 1 or 2 model years. Sorta how the egyptians and romans and such crowned their superiorty with pyramids and collosiums and such.

[MorpheusZero]

Originally Posted by irish44j

see, Toyota makes the hard choices to eliminate niche, low-volume vehicles. A good business model. Sell more Priuses and hybrids, make more money.

The American companies could learn something. GM spending alot of money hyping the new Camaro, when they're not gonna sell that many. Same with Dodge and the Challenger. American companies need to focus more on making what the GENERAL POPULATION wants, not worrying about a handful of "enthusiasts" IMHO...

Plus, if everyone has to drive Camrys, that will make my car look better in comparison

The car that you're selling..... to get something more reliable?

[irish44j]

Originally Posted by Magikone69

couldnt agree more, toyota is thinking ahead with comfortable fuel efficient automobiles that speak to the people. Its no wonder why they are so successful.

My thinking is, since toyota is already so successfull and things are only getting better...wouldnt it be nice for them to crown their success in the automotive industry with a Halo sports car? Even if it was only for 1 or 2 model years. Sorta how the egyptians and romans and such crowned their superiorty with pyramids and collosiums and such.

True, but Toyota already has that. It's called the Lexus IS-F

Originally Posted by MorpheusZero

The car that you're selling..... to get something more reliable?

I hope you're kidding. While the maxima has never left me stranded on the side of the road (ok, once but I had an extra MAF in the trunk), it has been FAR from a "quality" or "well-built" car overall. I've replaced about a dozen coils, 3 or 4 MAFs, had about $1500 of warranty work done over the years (extended warranty), had an electronic climate control unit go bad, one window motor gone bad, replaced both rear calipers TWICE, and other things. And almost all of that was in the first 120k miles. The VQ30DE-K is an awesome engine. As for the rest of the car, it has served me well but is certainly nothing I would rate as "quality"

And let's not even get talking about Nissan paint quality.

I hardly think that the BMW or Lexus or Audi or whatever I buy will have MORE problems. And if they do, at least they will have a warranty on them and will make up for problems by being faster, more comfy, and handling better than the max

[skuccio's max]

I don't buy that not doing the niche thing works

Look at Honda, I think they have the best of both worlds...

They sell a ton of Civics and Accords, and use cash to make halo cars like the S2K and NSX, while providing a relatively inexpensive middle ground with Civic Type Rs and RSX Type-Ss

Toyota completely abandoned the idea of enjoying driving (outside of the IS and even that isn't all it could be)

[irish44j]

Originally Posted by skuccio's max

I don't buy that not doing the niche thing works

Look at Honda, I think they have the best of both worlds...

They sell a ton of Civics and Accords, and use cash to make halo cars like the S2K and NSX, while providing a relatively inexpensive middle ground with Civic Type Rs and RSX Type-Ss

Toyota completely abandoned the idea of enjoying driving (outside of the IS and even that isn't all it could be)

....and they're laughing all the way to the bank. Last I checked Toyota is still the #1 manufacturer, not Honda.....

btw, I have an 08 4Runner and I greatly enjoy driving it. I kills other SUVs in its class in pretty much every category, including "fun to drive."

[Jeff92se]

Not a hard decision to kill the FJ. It was a terrible niche idea anyway and it wasn't selling.

But Toyota seems to be able to make the hard decisions fast to react to the market.

[irish44j]

Originally Posted by Jeff92se

Not a hard decision to kill the FJ. It was a terrible niche idea anyway and it wasn't selling.

But Toyota seems to be able to make the hard decisions fast to react to the market.

IMO it was a good idea, but terrible execution.

They should have brought back the FJ as a cheap, bare-bones recreational vehicle (ala Jeep) like the original was. Instead it was basically an ugly, smaller version of a 4Runner...

[Jeff92se]

Plus the styling trumped the utility. The view was terrible from the inside.

Yup. A bare bones version ala Honda Element would have worked well.

But Toyota can afford to take risks.

[irish44j]

QFT..

[A32AusMax]

Toyota should still invest in the future though. Sure its safe to to keep coming out with new models of old cars but there's no real long term goals for Toyota except for making heaps of money

innovation and exploration should be at the forefront of the company, especially since they have heaps of money and r&d resources

sure they have the market share, but would you rather own a Toyota or a BMW? im pretty sure Toyota arent happy being the 'settle for' brand

[irish44j]

Originally Posted by A32AusMax

Toyota should still invest in the future though.

They are....which is why they have more hybrids than anyone else. Hybrids are the future. 450hp supercars aren't....except for the ultra-rich. And the ultra-rich don't buy Toyotas, they buy Lexus or other luxury brands and/or exotics (ferrari, aston, etc)

Originally Posted by A32AusMax

innovation and exploration should be at the forefront of the company, especially since they have heaps of money and r&d resources

I agree. Innovative would be a full-size sedan that has 250hp and gets 40mpg. That's the kind of innovation Toyota does - the kind that make a difference in the mass-market, not some little niche. Meanwhile, Nissan is spending all its R&D on the GT-R rather than something more marketable.

Originally Posted by A32AusMax

sure they have the market share, but would you rather own a Toyota or a BMW?

Me personally? My next car will likely be a 335i. That said, I can afford a $35k car. But Toyota will sell more Corollas this year than BMW will sell ALL their cars...or Priuses for that matter.

But I'd rather own an Aston Martin. Doesn't mean I can....

Originally Posted by A32AusMax

im pretty sure Toyota arent happy being the 'settle for' brand

I'm betting Toyota is VERY happy selling more cars than any other company, and making more profit than any other car company.

And they're probably happy to build solid, good, if unexciting cars that the majority of Americans would rather buy over an "exciting" Nissan or Ford....Besides, you apparently forget that LEXUS is also TOYOTA. That's where they build the exciting cars (IS-F, anyone?).

I think they should make the Supra. And then badge it as a Lexus.

[Kevlo911]

Toyota world take over part 3 has begun !

[A32AusMax]

We can all agree that Toyota are smart with both the products they put out and their manufacturing processes but while they are gaining a share in the Hybrids and Family they are totally disregarding the sports car market.

they have let Nissan walk all over them and with this announcement it doesn't look like they are gonna fight back either.

lets not talk about 2 different brands here, The Toyota brand is where the money is, While a certain amount of Lexus profit goes to Toyota it is still a different brand, with different equity scores and market share.

While Nissan has lost the plot now, lets not forget how they clawed there way back up from nothing a decade ago. They are trying to cover every market, think of a market which Nissan is not a player of.

Toyota on the other hand have totally forgot about a number of markets, they dont make a sports car and they dont make a supercar. Nissan and Toyota are two different companies with two very different goals

[The Wizard]

Frankly I'm a little shocked that the new Supra is going to be officially shelved. I figured with the GTR out, Toyota would definitely feel the pressure, need, and desire to finally bring back the Supra and build their own super car and try to compete with the GTR. Toyota has been talking and prototyping the next Supra for at least 6 years now. I had envisioned them selling a comparable supercar for less in an attempt to start a 'supercar war'. Same formula as before, an inline 6, twin turbo 6 speed for 50k-60k but 400hp this time around; and no insane dealer markups.

Back in 1993, 50k for a 'Toyota' Supra was a lot and by 1998 the car was doomed and no longer in production. I believe people had a hard time forking up the dough for a 50k 'Toyota' because the name Toyota doesn't have that aura or nostalgia associated with it and is family to the camry, corollas etc. On the contrary, when someone says Porsche, it's a completely different feeling and nostalgia that comes with the name. Fast forward to today. Nissan insisted on keeping the GTR in the Nissan family, although many felt it should have been an Infiniti GTR based on what the car stands for. With the GTR here, that 50k 'Toyota' Supra doesn't sound so bad anymore, and I feel Toyota could steal the show if they brought the Supra back as described above. People would probably feel more comfortable in this era forking out 50k for a 'Toyota' supercar considering how many are buying 85k-100k Nissan (not Infiniti) GTR's sight unseen.

But then again, the economy is going in the crapper, taxes will be raised with the next president etc. So I guess Toyota will sit on the side lines and wait for the perfect time in the distant future to try again.

[MorpheusZero]

I do not think the Supra could steal the GT-R's thunder. There are plenty of 400hp cars around, the GT-R's claim to fame was its ridiculous track and acceleration times for its power to weight. The Supra was always great in a