99se5spd

oh yea, that car is set up stock so nice, its just so..."flickable" im 100% comfortable i can make that car do anything in any type of situation, unlike the max where i dont think i will ever feel as confident because of the characteristics of a larger car, maybe with quite a bit of suspension and body stiffening which i unfortunatelly dont have the money for.

Daily Driver2k2

Yeah i was cooking around a corner fast one time and i hit a patch of gravel/sand in the road and whipped my TTZ in a 360 and manage to gain control of it after it came out of a 360 and manage to keep going strait. It was so bizzar/scary/ and fun... but to watch peoples facial expresion was pricesless! They look like this ->
LOL!!!

VQdriver

right now i guess i'm a wannabe track driver lol. i use racing techniques on the street. i heel toe double clutch every downshift. i see late apexes and braking points on a normal commute. when i experience understeer i use left foot braking. i can use left foot braking and the handbrake to manipulate the angle of the car in the snow. i can bust left or right ebrake 180s (my version of the Kturn) at will. if you have a RSB oversteer can be cancelled by calmly easing off the accel. this method will not work in rwd. overall, i think a 4th gen maxima with logical suspension tuning is a decent handling car capable of keeping up with many of today's. i know enough to leave proper spacing between cars and whether if i trust the other guy or not i'll get closer.
in terms of track performances i have dragged my maxima to 14.0 in the past. nowadays i have an S13 srswap pushing around 300whp to learn. i've attended a couple drift clinics at englishtown as one of the instructors is a friend of mine. he built my S13 from the ground up. i will focus on more dgtrials events this season. drifting teaches the limits of a rwd car. it's a different feeling driving "sideways." it's humbling at first, but persistence is the key to learning anything. i want to start autoXing and road course racing to add to my experience, so if anyone can show me the ropes lemme know!

Stalldaworld

iTrader: (8)

i think being a good driver has alot to do with feeling comfortable with the vehicle your driving in...if you dont know squat about how the vehicle will perform in any given situation your going to run into problems especially when you encounter a hairy situation. i have had my infiniti for a while and i feel comfortable when i push it through the corners or am going fast 110+. here in ct where i live, the highways are not in tip top shape...the winter really messes them up and they are under constant repair the conditions are always changing obv warenting caution if your not familiar. i could def benifit from a driving school but wouldnt consider myself a non-compitent driver. i have never been in an accident while behind the wheel and have never gotten a speeding ticket. i do travel fast all the time 15 to 25 mph over the limit but i do know where the 5 0 hang out and consider myself aware of my suroundings while driving. i also tailgate unconciously and have a minor RR flare up here and there.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I drive like a 90yr old. I love the brake pedal, and use it even when I am pressing the gas.

silvermax2k2

iTrader: (1)

--------

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Just remember, something like 70% of drivers out there consider themselves "above average"

Just because you THINK you know how to take a corner doesn't mean you'll react properly when there's a schoolbus behind you, a semi beside you, and the rednecks in the truck in front of you drop a bale of hay off the truck.. where you gonna go? dive left and hit the semi? go right and run off the road? slam on your brakes and risk getting hit by the schoolbus- or worse, causing the bus driver to swerve to miss you resulting in a bus full of kids rolling over. (actually, they're taught to just keep going and run you over. less damage by going straight)..

you wannabe race drivers need to remember that next time you're zipping between cars on the freeway in your Maxima 'race car'... just because YOUR car can go fast and turn and stop doesn't mean the idiots around you can, and it still doesn't stop them from doing something stupid and taking you out with them.

Daily Driver2k2

The logical awnser would be to go off the road.I have been in that situation many times, not with the same vehicles you mentioned , but hey shoulder or no shoulder if thats the only option, then yes, i am going for it. And yes you can avoid killing yourself when going off the road, as long you stay calm and have you hands on the steering wheel and don't lock up the brakes and make suttle adjustment in your steering to avoid a spinout, it can be done.. living proof of it, i been driving the highway for 10 years now going back and forth to and from work and i have had my full share or great stories and scenarios of being cutoff/ran off the road by drivers who forget your there, not paying attention, debrie and other large object falling from truck beds, falling of roofs of vehicles, people on the cell phone aimlessly drift or swerve into your lane , truckers who are all over the road for pushing themselves to hard, the occasional drunk, the stupid ricer who doesn't know how to handle quick lane shifts,old people who just don't give a **** and just try to come into your lane , yes you mention it , i have been through it!

Oh yeah you mention there of us here that"think" we know how to drive but there are many of us that "know " how to drive our cars. Such as myself ia m not one to brag , but in this catergory HELL YEAH I THINK I AM HELLUVA DRIVER!!!!

Max96GLE

iTrader: (2)

My friends and co-workers said I drive like grandma. I'm not in a rush to get to places. When I need to use the restroom, than that's a different story. Doesn't say if i'm a good driver or not. Oh, I was involve in an accident. Damn Lincoln cut infront of me.

RacertilTheEnd

Part of being a "good" driver, and probably a good portion of it, is confidence. You can have the fastest car, and the cleanest driving record, but it don't mean jack. Being confident means knowing your car, and knowing yourself. And knowing when to stop. From personal experience, I can say that I hate it when people are "granny" drivers and they persist in staying in the fast lane, because it makes the road more dangerous than a person who is speeding, for the fact that the speeder has to pass the grandma. I'm rambling, oh well. You get my point.

Bonka

iTrader: (13)

A local police officer uses this quote in his sig..

I have yet to come across anyone who thinks otherwise.

I personally would hope to think that drivers who've had professional driving experience to be at least average on a pessimistic tone.

I believe I'm an average driver. I get to places without trauma to myself/passengers. However my friends know me as the most aggressive driver they know You have to learn to get to places on a tight schedule damnit.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

Daily Driver2k2, thanx, i learned something new today. never would have thought it that way.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

People like him are who I'm scared of on the highway.

Deckdout2

iTrader: (151)

don't think you're a good driver just cause you can manuver around traffic, and dodge things. trust me, i've learned from my earlier days that being a good driver and driving defensively can be somewhat different. i thought i was a good driver till i headbutted a telephone pole doing 55. granted it was cause i wasn't paying attention for a split second, but it wasn't because i was a bad driver......to be very attentive 100% of the time is the biggest focus. do you think race car drivers fiddle with anything while on the track? of course not, but they still make mistakes.......hummmm don't let yourself be fooled by the way others might act or react either, you never know when anything is going to happen. be safe and enjoy your drive.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

That's my point... not matter how good of a driver you are- doesn't matter if you can take corners like an andretti-- it's how you deal with what's around you. Just because you can drive fast around little orange cones or you can avoid a semi doesn't mean you know what to do when a bad situation presents itself.

The people that scare me are the ones that seem to say they're a good driver, but freak out the instant someone else does something unexpected.
there are so many flat out STUPID drivers out there, that you've got to watch everyone else 100% of the time. people changing lanes without checking blind spots, stuff falling off a truck in front of you, the jerkoff behind you talking on his cell phone and smoking at the same time, etc etc..

A lady almost killed again tonight when a 6" metal pipe cap on a semi fell off and went through her windshield... not a damn thing she could do about it, no matter how good of a driver she was...

Daily Driver2k2

True ...yes and no, but you can still take action no matter what situation arises. What causes crashes and deaths are that people panic when things go out of the ordinary. The average joe/jane are use to jumping in the car, putting on the seat belt, and driving off everything id fine and dandy, now put them in a scenario where stuff is falling off peoples car, a major blow out oocurs,dismal conditions outside, thats were they lose it...then they crash or kill themeslves or somebody else.

Like somebody mention, confidence is the key , it doesn't matter wether you have zero tickets, no accidents or you drive the safest, fastest, or POS car on the road. Inexperience and not being confident behind the wheel is a time bomb waiting to go off.

Also what causes more accidents , are people that don't have the proper equipment on there car, my friend who is a Deputy says more than half the people who get into ugly situations is because the person is riding on bald tires, worn out brake pads, down to the indicators, faulty suspension, busted struts, alot of these cars on the orad , should be.... and combine that with inexperience your really asking for wreck! My friend got nailed from behind by a F350 a 2002 , in his Mitsubishi galant, the cars backend was totaled, he got hit from the other guy doing 45mph,not some insane highway speed , but normal city limit cruising speed and you know what the cause of the guy plowing into my friend, it wasn't drunk driving, or him being on the cell phone or eating or anyother distraction, the guy had zero brake pads left. Couldn't stop!

And my friend was at a light waiting...unfourtunately my friend in his scenario couldn't do nothing, but at the light we all take for granted the guy behind us will have common sense to brake or at least have brakes to stop.

4dscPat

I'm better than most of the guys at my high school, but that really isnt saying much. I guess I'm a decent driver. Most of the time I dont do more than 10 over and blend in with everybody else, although every once in a while when nobody is around I get urges to drive like I stole it. Also, I often can't resist opening it up if I find myself on a deserted 2 lane twisty out in the boonies.

JSniper0

i like that

VQdriver

yea i'm really not that great. i try not to drive like a hero most of the time, but when i do make a move i try to have the car balanced. i try to have everything mapped out in my headk, nothing impulsive. i also space myself according to how the other cars are driving. defensive driving wins out on the street everytime. i've learned it's better to be safe than sorry.

joebangaa

iTrader: (3)

imo, if you truly are a good driver i'll sleep while you're driving lol. i care more about accidents than tickets, i've gotten one speeding ticket in the max (1st ticket in 4 cars...) no accidents, and i admit i drive fast. and i'll be honest, i'm not the best driver, i'm no stunt driver, but for the most part i can push the car to the max and keep it surprisingly under control. and out of everyone i personally know i could say i'm a better driver than them, i drive more miles, and not to brag but i've been told about eight times from various people that they'd hire me as a driver (whatever that's supposed to mean). When i first moved to this neighborhood and it was all under construction, me and my audi friends would go nuts in the paved construction area cuz they were always wet, fun times. i made the max look nuttier than their quattros lol, i'll ask him for the vid next time i see them and i'll try to post.

and the comment on gassing it on turns... good basic idea but of course in the max too much gas will create the worst understeer ever and just take you straight into a curb lol, i always throttle it easy around turns, much better traction.

99se5spd

one of the most important things, i dont think anyone mentioned (correct me if i am wrong) is being observant.if you can get in the habit of constantly knowing whos around you, whos changing lanes/or driving aggressively, on ramps/exit ramps/side streets, shoulders, everything. than you can be prepared in case there is an emergency situation, you already have all the information in your head to make a rational and potentialy life saving decision. some things i do are the "name that car" game (just the other day my gf's mom was saying how uncanny it is that i can name a car make model and generation just by the headlights) guessing when x-car is going to exit/turn, my gf even quizes me sometimes by asking what the last sign we passed said. being aware of your surroundings and, as previously stated, being confident in yourself, your ability to use your vehicle as an extention of yourself, the mechanical condition of your car, and your awareness of your cars limits will get you out of most all potentialy harmful scenarios. oh yah and a good reaction time always helps too.

joebangaa

iTrader: (3)

i notice i can name pretty much most makes and models too, even at night just by taillights or headlights. its not even something we try to do. and yea, i live through my rearview lol

Wills98MaxSE

i'm a defensive driver, just pisses me off when people ..

- drive BELOW the speed limit (if you wanna drive slow, drive in your own subdivision)
- Tailgate behind me
- Ride/slam the brakes like its the end of the world
- Slow on a yellow light then deliberately speed thru it just when it turns red

Epacy

iTrader: (6)

Me either, but that doesn't mean you will never get in a wreck.
I had some drunk broad total my 94 Max from behind. No fault of my own and I am a very solid driver. Doesn't matter how good you are, you can still get f*cked.

Maxceler8

Yeah OHIO j/k I second you Will. I think my driving is ok, I just tend to drive fast (usually cause I don't manage my time as well as I could and usually end up leaving later than I should've). I've had my share of tickets, but have been working on trying to manage my time better, so I don't need to drive fast. Better that way so I can avoid trouble with tha cops, and also so a tank of gas would last longer, as well as ppl's overall safety. Am trying to improve, but always room for more improvement, and I hope to get better.

Wills98MaxSE

another to my previous post

- driving like a dumbass while talking on your cell phone and not paying attention to anything around you

lots of this in my area .. w/ me tho., I can drive and talk at the same time, at least I pay att'n to the road and drive the car reasonably when I'm on my cell phone, unlike the hot-shot execs or little punks that are glued to thier phone in my area that think they're invincible

Maxceler8

I have been nearly wiped-out or involved in an accident many times due to this. Not to be steriotypical (ad I can't be, 'cuz I'm one), but women are the worst usually holding a cell-phone and driving some stupid suv or minivan. That drives me nuts, how can ppl be so careless when they drive? It almost makes me wish they would get in an accident, just so they can then really see the consequences.

You mean they're not?!?!

I haven't spent a lot of time in Rochester, but have been in Novi several times, and every time I go there, I see TONS of cops. Their tickets and court fines are outragous also. Even compared to Farmington Hills.....I know they got some nouveau riche city to pay for, but sheesh.....

I wouldn't mess around with Grosse Pointe cops either...they got my bf several times just traveling thru the city on business, on his old car for tint. Good thing I'm usually around Clinton Twp and Pontiac....when I do see cops they don't give me any trouble for my tint or anything.

Ant96GLE

iTrader: (4)

I'm da bestest driver evar

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I'd be an ever better driver with a turbo

Wills98MaxSE

they'll get their day


tell me about it! seems like the whole Novi police dep't is on the roads or something .. there's one Novi cop car I see, he always parks hides in his car by the Jeep/Infiniti dealer on Haggerty, seems like he's there every single time I pass by .. depends on where you are in the area, some of them are a little more flexible, some are real ****** (Novi) .. Farmington Hills is just as bad, I got a ticket from them a while back, wasn't cheap either.

Maxceler8

Im sure that cop still snags lots of ppl, even though you say you seem him there all the time. The places that I see lot of cops (M53, M59 where there are hills and concrete dividers to hide in...sneaky bastages!!) in and around the same position...I tend not to speed much 'cuz...duhh! But I see ppl pulled over all the time in these places.....get a clue!

One thing else I've noticed is, State cops seem to be the worst, as far as hiding and gunning ppl. I've seen lots of county cops do it too.....just more stateys that I see.

Hornswoggler

There is a very, VERY big difference between a good "street" driver, and a skilled/trained "track" driver.

Those of you who think it looks like a piece of cake out there, have NO idea. It's actually very challenging, especially for your first event.

Track events (commonly called HPDE's, or high performance driving events) will teach you a LOT about car control, and you will get a really good feeling of your cars handling limits. You will learn to appreciate concepts like smoothness (both on and off the gas, in steering, in braking, in everything...), rev matching, corner exit speed, corner entry, apexing, trail braking, accelerating out of turns, driving lines, setting up for the next turn, how/when/where to pass, heel-toe shifting, etc. There is a lot going on for every lap, and really rewarding when you can hit the "zone" and let your muscle memory take over, lap after lap.

A good driving school (HPDE) can make you faster than ANY go-fast part of the same price. If you can't afford a driving school, you can't afford any go-fast mods for your car. Period. A car is only as fast as the driver.

Find a good driving event to attend. Using your own car, expect to pay anywhere from $200-500 per weekend, and be sure and find one with in-car instruction for beginners. Be humble. Go out there and learn and definately have fun. You will come back a safer and smoother driver. Track driven cars are also some of the best maintained cars on the road. Hone your skills!

For those on the east coast and midwest, check out http://www.trackschedule.com . A good book to read before the event is Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley. You will probably need a helmet.

Even after two seasons of track events in my M3, I rated my own skill as good driver. I have been in the car with some awesome instructors, and have GREAT respect for some of those guys on TV (i.e. speed world challenge, F1, grand am cup, ALMS, etc.) and don't think I can hold a candle to them! hah. (although 1:56 around Road Atlanta isn't too bad, but I can do better this year, me thinks)

Mod the driver, not the car.

MAX2000JP

My friend has always told me to save my money on HPDE schools. I have always asked him to come along with me and give me tips when I am on the track. The guys teaching these schools usually aren't pro drivers and may not be that great of drivers. He told me to go somewhere like Bondurant and do a 4 day Grand Prix school. I am not saying you wont learn anything at one of these schools, but they only teach you so much.

Hornswoggler

It really depends on the quality of the event (i.e. who is hosting it) and what your goals are as a driver.

Save your money? They are only like $150-300 per day. For everything you do to your car (mods, etc.), wouldn't it be worth the money just to let your car stretch its legs and you get to drive as fast as you want on a premiere road course?!? I think they are well worth the money, most of them atleast.

Sure, if you want to be a COMPETITIVE race car driver, you would be more interested in a racing school. The way I see it, is you need to learn how to walk before you can run, and attending HPDE's is a LOT cheaper than wheel-2-wheel racing, and you can get a good feel for track driving. No, HPDE's won't train you to be a racecar driver, but it WILL help build a good foundation of driving skill. It will also make you a MUCH better driver, and it will teach you a lot about your cars handling limits. There is some value in attending HPDE's.

I have had my best experiences with www.tracktime.com and the BMWCCA hosted events. Of course, there are others that are probably just as good.

Take it for what its worth. Personally, I have an awesome time at HPDE's and can't think of a better way to spend my weekend. Save my money? Hell no... I'll drive a nice road course, thank you very much!

Hornswoggler

Sure, not all of these guys are pro's, but there are a LOT of them who ARE great drivers, and some of them ARE pro's. For example, the upcoming BMWCCA track event at Road Atlanta next month will have Seth Thomas (Bimmerworld 325 from Speed World Challenge TC) instructing, and I know the last event his teammates James Clay and Matt Richmond were there. Not sure of James and Matt were instructing, but Seth was.

My instructor at Gateway International raceway has the record speed for that track. I think he drove it in a formula atlantic or something, I dunno.

Other instructors I have had were avid club racers. At the Panoz open lap days, the instructors were the same ones who run the racing school. Unfortunately they didn't ride along, but would make notes on cars at certain points on the track. From what I understand, these guys are awesome drivers... some of them "pro".

So maybe you are just going to the wrong HPDE's?

Hornswoggler

They won't teach you everything, but you can learn a lot. I think its a good start, and a big step-up from just being a good "street" driver.

MAX2000JP

Actually it's funny that you mention track time because that was the one he was talking about. My friend and his dad have a lot of experience road racing and said they could teach me everything taught in that school, so don't waste your money. I have went to Gingerman a few times and didn't pay a dollar, since they usually rent out the track for the afternoon. I can go out there as much as I want with only a handful of cars on a 1.8 mile track. You just have to watch out for their Formula car because it's small and it comes up on street cars FAST.

I also worked with a guy whom was an SVTOA instructor. His lap times were the same as I was in my auto 330i. The sad part about it was the car he was driving was a full race GT350 with roughly 700 hp. He is a real great driver in regards to his technical experience, but he doesn't have the ***** to push hard. My friend told me to stick with a school like Bondurant or Skip Barber because they are top notch and you will learn the most from that type of enviroment. I took a shifter kart class at Bondurant and I can tell you it's an amazing operation they have their in Phoenix. Shifter Karts will teach you how to be smooth in regards to turning or braking. If you are not, you will loose the rear end quickly.

I think a lot of people think they are pushing their cars hard on the streets, but it's nothing compared to pushing your car on a closed road course. I push my car hard on the street every once in a blue moon, but I don't get my tires/brakes as warm as I do on the track. I will go on to say, that you really cannot approach the true limits of your car on the street.

Wills98MaxSE

don't forget I-696 & I-275

Hornswoggler

OK, so you have a special opportunity that not everybody else has. Just because you can get free track time and free instruction from your buddies, doesn't mean the rest of the audience here can. I am happy for ya... but for everybody else (i.e. those who don't already have racing buddies), I still think its well worth the time and money to attend an HPDE (just go to the right ones, with the better instruction).

Hornswoggler

MAX2000JP,

I am just curious...

But what do you advocate for the majority of street drivers here (who don't have racing buddies) that would like to improve their performance driving skills?

Should that person jump into a racing school for $3-4k and drive open wheel race cars for a week or two (14 days?)...

or maybe find a baby step with a $300 HPDE where they can get to better know their own car over the weekend?

(both options assuming the same road course/race track)

To recommend that most ppl here jump straight into a Bondurant or Skip Barber-like racing school is like shooting a rabbit with a bazooka!