Jime

iTrader: (10)

I'm not sure how to approach this subject with just being blunt.

It drives me crazy reading some the of the posts and answers given. Some of the posts ask very immature questions and many of the replies are downright WRONG.

The answers give to some technical questions are beyond belief and in a lot of cases hearsay and not based on any credible information or fact.

Sometimes humor is greatly appreciatiated and we would all be at a loss without it, so I hope that we can always carry that theme.

One board I frequent has the following disclaimer contained in the reply window for every response made on the forum.

I suggest we should adopt a similar format.

When replying to a discussion:

Don't give tech advice unless you have first-hand knowledge of the subject.

Link to the answer and try not to guess the answer to a question.

If you are not completely sure about your answer, be sure and state that in your reply.

The goal is to not spread hearsay or bad information.

Help on any subject is always appreciated by everyone and should never be supressed but following these simple rules would enhance our forum and certainly give our Moderators (God bless our Moderators for what they put up with) some welcome relief.

Thank You
Jime

PS This post has nothing to do with NEWBIES, we have all been there and I appreciate them and enjoy responding to their questions no matter how silly we think they may be. Once you stop learning you may just as well roll over and die.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

i agree jime, im one of those who should link if no one with true knowledge shows up on the scene. i think neal has suggested a technical section which i think we need BIG TIME for people like me who need to learn more about that aspect of our cars versus cosmetics lets say.

i do appreciate your patience with me with those horrible emails i send you ...LOL ! i still have to wonder about a technical section strictly for mechanical questions.. ? we need this !

deezo

iTrader: (3)

This is why I posted my high output alternator threads so the myths can be laid to rest.

metallic97gxe

iTrader: (3)

very true post I try to only post to helk the topic or point them in the right direction or if I don't know just skip the thread...

waveridr85

iTrader: (4)

I agree, can some ADMIN or mods change that so we can have that stated next to the reply fields

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Nail --> Head

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Jime, this is a fact of life. This is not going to change when you got 16yr old kids posting like they know stuff more than a 50yr old who has 3x his life in experiece. Complete disregard for respect. It seems like its all about being an internet thug these days. Gets into wars on who knows more, whos car is faster, who car has the biggest spoiler on it, who thinks 20" chrome wheels look ghetto, its just nonsense. No one seems to understand the concept of "to each is his own"

Almost like you have to build an immunity to it and just let it pass. Sometimes I want to help and get technical on certain threads where I know the answer, but since there are 4 other people who put their 2cents into the thread, i normally choose to just let it take its course, because no matter who comes in, they wont listen.

Im not saying any of the moderators are not doing their jobs. Cause I know they put in alot selflessness amount of hours into this mess. I think they need to now just become even more hard now on these dumbazz style threads that come up where these threads get out of hand. Sort of lay down the law.

Dixit

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Dixit, I know for one that we really are cracking down on that BS (Internet Thugism), so you won't see it getting to wild here. Everything else you said just shows that the car makes the person.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Thats a good thing. Keep the up the good work. You and the rest of the crew. Lay down the lay and those IT (Internet Thuglife) ***** will see this is more about showing people what the maxima is about, not a war on who nuts can you kick.

Dixit

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

so kicking nuts is wrong?

j/k
navfe-

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Basicly now, if the posting person cannot ask in an intelligent manner or at least TRY to use decent grammar, they are left to fend for themselves.

If something is so wrong that it might harm the car or the person, I'll correct the mistake and flame the idiot who have incorrect advice.

Frank Fontaine

I tend to agree with the comments here. I would take the advice here with a grain of salt, because there is much bad advice given on financial matters, technical matters, and basically most matters! We don't really have to mention them all because they come up almost daily. Has this forum really improved over the last 5 years, or is it still like it always was, "What's the best place to buy clears?" The LED and xenon HID stuff reminds me of clears back in 1998, seeking stuff purely for looks at the expense of function.

But for me, when I asked for advice on the rear brakes, all the responses said the caliper was seized. Now that I've seen 2 cars averaging 100k each, with calipers that were fine, I'm not really sure why seized pistons would be common at all. Ultimately, the fact that I wasn't using my wind back tool properly was the culprit. However, even when I mentioned that yanking on the parking brake caused the pads to go from loose to tight upon reassembly, ie piston is working, replies still insisted on a seized piston which makes no sense. When people say they can't get the caliper over the new pads after retracting the piston, nobody ever suggests to line up the notches properly and again the seized piston replies come out. It's not always easy to troubleshoot people's problems without seeing things first hand, but the canned responses cause people to start shopping for things they don't need, and waste their money. It's like throwing out the baby with the bath water. That's to be expected in the car business because that's how shops maximize their revenue, but on the web, one expects some ingenuity. Seriously--I find a lot of telecom and legal solutions on professional forums that Tier 4 engineers can't come up with. But like someone said, it could be an age thing too. The people on the tek forums are probably over 40 and take their jobs seriously, so they share solutions in detail. my .02.

Dave B

I couldn't agree more. I changed my sig this week because I've been feeling the same thing for quite a while now. I get sick and tired of guys flaming me when I correct them and provide facts and links. The misinformation on this site is never ending. Nearly all of it is heresay and "I heards" which then somehow become factual. Without the search feature available to all, this Org is going to crap very quickly.


Dave

mansurxk

iTrader: (14)

yeah dave's right, ive seen him post some links last week with pepole arguing, id have to say i disagreed at first, but i did ask for proof and sure enough he proved me wrong, while some other people continued to argue, probalby just for the sake of arguing, and yeah it is a younger crowd, im 22 myself, not by any means old, but reading some of tehse questions, i feel like im 50...

i think once a new member registers, you should have a pop-up window requiring someone to answer questions and make sure they READ and check the FAQ's, im amazed people dont see where it says "i must read the faq...." instead it sthe same old intake questions, we should just put an intake sticky, cuz thast probalby waht 10% of the questions are.."how do my ypipe sound, how does my intake sound" get a life people...this isnt NASCAR
use your logic, and deduce where yoru problems are coming from, if all else fails ask someoen else, but post your knowledge ont he subjct matter so someoen can correct you and come up with a possible solution or alternative, if you have a problem, check the stickys, check the haynes manual, read up on the subject matter, see how the system operates, then ask away, because people need to learn how to come up with their own solutions, you never learn anything if you dnt figure things out yourself

man this was a long message, sorry

MaximaMoJo

It is just not the misinformation of these "internet thugs" that brings the board down it is there whole attitude. I have pretty much left the board due to all of the negativity and flaming. Just a thought.

SteVTEC

Thanks for speaking up Jime! Maybe we should sticky this. I know a lot of people feel the same way, and personally I couldn't agree more.

Maxima.org "used to be" a truly great place to learn at and in general just hang out. Now there are soooooooooo many idiots here that it's ridiculous. So much misinformation that it's crazy and it just makes this site useless.

And unfortunately that's why I hardly even bother to post here anymore. Dare I try to "correct" some of that BS and the same thing happens to me. Together a lot of us guys that have been around for awhile know these cars inside and out like the back of our hands. If only people would listen and THINK about what some of us are saying first, instead of flaming to protect their precious little egos when we say they're wrong, maybe, just maybe this site would improve. People are too immature these days. Personally I have better things to do than to waste my time here trying to teach people about how these cars work - it's like arguing with brick walls. Even the Honda guys are more open minded.

I agree that that's a big contributing issue and a catch-22. The server can barely handle the load with search limited to donators, much less the whole site. But without the admins taking new donations and flipping status, newer folks can't search and learn and read through past discussions where everything is already covered. Of course, a lot of this IS covered in the FAQs and stickys though. If only people would read them.


So.....I've been sitting out for the most part lately but still just surf. Mainly just GD and OT though. And dare I surf into the 4th gen forum, I'll see a thread with a bunch of BS and will then try to clear it all up for folks. But unfortunately that requires a week long committment to refute all of the idiot flames and counterpoints because people again do not LISTEN or THINK. Yeah, it is a lot of "hearsay" well my buddy told me that...blah blah blah" which means that they don't even understand it themselves so why do they bother? I know what I know, and a lot of guys posting in this thread know what they know too. Maybe when a lot of these newer guys finally "GET IT" and start listening instead of flaming I'll start posting a little more.


It's not that I don't want to contribute anything here anymore. It's just that there are "consequences" of posting legit information in the form of dealing with all of the idiots that will disagree with you who don't know squat themselves and shouldn't even be opening their mouths to disagree with you in the first place. NO respect.


bleh...I'm rambling. Anyways, I feel your pain buddy!

chinaonnitrous1

iTrader: (12)

IMO with topics and b/s replies, i feel that i know who's credible here, and who do dis-regard.

SteVTEC

That's easy for people who have been around for awhile to determine, but not so easy for people that are just joining, trying to learn, and really don't know who to believe. People come here to learn, not be misled. Unfortunately people get misled a lot here and that is sad.

CullenJ76

iTrader: (3)

I've been feeling the same way for a while now. It seems like it's getting progressively worse, especially in the 4th gen and gen disc. forums. I can't really speak of 2nd,3rd,5th, and 6th gen forums being that I don't surf there much. The problem has actually benefitted me a little because I now go in forums I never had before and I have enjoyed that. If I have any tech question I'd rather go ask the local pep boys counter boy than post in the 4th gen forum. It seems like there are about 3-4 automatic answers puked out by members, no matter what the problem is that the posting member is addressing: must be your plugs, must be your fuel filter, and my PERSONAL favorite YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR THROTTLE BODY!!!

For now I'll just stick with the TC/SC and n2o forums, where real problems are diagnosed and solved.

It is just really unfortunate for those newer members who rely on the board to help them out and are being fed misinformation. Steve's point about everyones ego is on-point

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

I still have hope for the .org!

I think most of the idiots will eventually taper off, and this will leave behind the true Maxima.org site gurus (with the ability and time to actually carry on decent technical conversations).

DSMJim

One thing we do on DSMTuners is recognize members who are knowledgeable by calling them "Wisemen".

I am a part of the "Wisemen" group on DSMTuners and it has worked out very well. The newbie’s know that the wisemen are people who have much experience in the area they are talking about. They are easily recognizable as people who you can rely on for good information.

I still have to answer a lot of dumb questions but it really stops the "my buddy's dog's neighbor told me your wrong" type of posts. Basically those people learn their place pretty quickly.

Wisemen also have our own forum where we can direct each other to threads that need our help and direction.

Overall the Wisemen project has worked out very well and has brought much success to the DSMTuners board. It keeps the smart people posting and helps shut the dumb people down.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...threadid=16949

Refer to this thread for info on how the program works. Just ask the Admin how successful it has been.

ohannon7

iTrader: (5)

The problem is for alot of people on here this is their first time modding a car. They want to give input and become a "member" but they give wrong/bad advice/info or crap that they just think is logical.

I have also come to know which members to believe and which members not to even read what they say.

Another thing that sucks is all the d@mn complainers on here. i.e.(intakes, exhausts, and suspension)

SteVTEC

Damn, I like that idea a lot too. That could be really REALLY useful here at the org too. Thanks for sharing.

DSMJim

They don't have the power to close/lock threads like moderators do it's only title. Moderators are known to be "wisemen" already, where the title given to others is mearly a way for newer or less mechanically inclined members to know who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't

When it comes down to it, we all have the right to be here (hell I don't even own a Maxima) but certian people should be regonized for being major players on their board and the guys who help others because they have already figured it out and help to pave the way for others.

How fast your car goes is not an indication of how smart you are either. It's determined by the quality of your posts and how you help others and know what your talking about. Not your post count or time slip. Honestly I think the post count number should be removed, it stops people from posting stupid stuff so their number gets higher. You can list it on the profile page but remove it from the thread view.

Anyway enough BS out of me...

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Another view on the SEARCH feature here. I'm pretty sure that some of the nOObs that join do actually look back a few pages back to fing the answers to their problems. Only thing about that is that the first few pages are basically the same 5 topics discussed in about 200 threads. I feel that the only way I'll get some answers is if I ask them in the F/I forums. I know it's off topic for the F/I guys but soon that will be the only way to get solutions.

hakk97se

I also agree with everything being said here and I appreciate Jim speaking up. It's very hard to get people to read stickies, and having the search function disabled doesnt make it any easier to tell people to look before asking. I deal with this all the time in tech circles. The gut reaction to dumb questions is to tell people to go "RTFM" (read the ... manual), but inevitably they want to just ask their question enough times until someone answers it because they are too lazy, to incompetent, or too arrogant to go look for an answer themselves. Unfortunately this does lead to them getting bad information quite often because they have no way of authenticating who is authoritative and who is a random jerk passing along bad hear-say information. Plus, given their unwillingness to look up the information in an authoritative source, they are more than satisfied when they hear any answer, just so long as they -believe- the answer is correct.

Since these people are not willing to go to a centralized authoritative information source, we must distribute some authority to competent people (other than a few moderators). For this purpose, I also like the "Wisemen" idea. Other forums have a comment moderation system where people who are known to be knowledgable have a certain number of points they can hand out in each thread. Good posts can be pushed +1 and bad posts -1 (perhaps multiple times). Eventually, those individuals who consistently have their posts pushed +1 gain enough "karma" to the point where they too can push posts +1 or -1. The more karma you have, the more you can push posts. That way, even without it being built into the forum software, people can look at (perhaps the top of) a post and decide whether to read it or not. More complex forum software suites have this feature built in. On large sites, like Slashdot, they even have meta-moderators where people can look at a random selection of +1 or -1 actions and decide whether or not they were justified. That way the community feels that these "wisemen" are not abusing their power.


My $0.02

Dave B

The Wisemen title is a pretty sweet idea. How could we go about incorporating something like that?

Yep, I understand. Now if we could stop the newbies from asking questions that are already covered in the FAQs and stickys maybe the server wouldn't become so glutted up and everyone would be allowed to search. Yeah I know, it's a pipe dream.

A lot of the problems do stem from young guys that know very little (not their fault). We just need to try and point them in the right direction. Sometimes in this process egos get crushed. About everyday I read a post with a legitment question and I try to offer the simple, correct, and direct answer and then the flames start flying. It gets really old. I've been on Maxima.org for well over 5 years now and I've seen it grow massively. Unfortunately with the huge member base comes a huge amount of BS.

Here's my simple take on how the forums have progressed:

General: "I crashed my car"
6th gen: "Can I put 22s on my 6th gen?"
5th gen: "My crappy 5th gen broke this.... (insert item)"
4th gen: "what is a CAI?"
3rd gen: "how do I fix my VTCs?"
2nd gen: "where can I find any mods?"
1st gen: "how do I find parts for this thing?"
OT: "check this out *NWS*"


Dave

j_bryan

iTrader: (1)

Reading this post made me think back to when Daniel B. Martin was around. He was a very knowledgeable, yet humble individual who politely answered a variety of questions on various subjects. He always seemed to have a good attitude even though he often answered the same question over and over.

His unselfishness was truely rare and I think people respected that.

I like the Wisemen idea, and I hope that the search feature can be reactivated in the not too distant future. In the meantime, if I see a question that has been answered in the sticky, I plan to post a link to the sticky. If many of us did this, it would help reduce rampant misinformation.

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

Lately, I have seen so many threads where people with less than 50 posts start attacking posts made by people who have been here for a long time and have firsthand experience with what they're talking about. I read through a thread just recently where some guy who just bought his maxima was throwing out info like he built the damn thing and then jumped people that knew more when they tried to correct him. We've lost some good members from here that really, truely helped people learn. DBM for one. I feel bad for people that come here to get some answers and are led in the wrong direction by people that really don't have an answer and aren't man enough to admit they don't know it all.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

i agree completely, will do my best to help out the newer members and those who have been here for a while and need valid info, good thread, i hope more people read this

Terran

iTrader: (6)

I think a tech section is a GREAT idea. I was just looking in the fluids and lube forum and it is absolutely free of the BS threads that fill the 4th gen forum. (maybe add it under that same maintenance section). I would like to add that the org has been immensely helpful to me thanks to all you "wisemen."

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Thank you to all who have voiced their Amen. I really enjoy helping folks who have a real question or need help and I get a lot of emails that I respond to and some even respond back later thanking me and its truly a good feeling knowing that I have done the right thing and someone has benefited from it.

However it just takes one $%^&(* that questions everything you say (not a bad thing) to quickly dispell your helping attitude and turn it into almost a war of words because they have no idea what they are talking about.

I personally have a lot of people on the org to thank who have helped me over the last couple of years. I don't ask too many questions but that doesn't mean I don't learn from those who do. Many of them don't even know what they have done because I haven't even directly asked them a question, I have just read their response to someone elses post. Those are the unknown's that have truly made the org the "place to be and learn from" and I thank you all for your contribution.

Some people can sift through the bull and other stuff and glean immensely from their experience, others are greatly swayed from misinformation and that is what concerns me. I really enjoy getting the occasional email from someone thanking me for info that I had forgotten about even responding to that has helped solve their individual problem and saved them $$ and time with their particular problem. To me, thats where the rubber hits the road.

Ben is one guy that really comes to mind, sometimes he just inserts the right thing to bring the topic back on track without being confrontational or subjective and is truly a great help to all who will listen.

Thank you all for your responses, everyone has been positive and reflect a caring attitude to keep on helping those who need it.

PS I do hope that DBM is still listening occasionally, he was truly an inspiration to all.

RastaManMax

iTrader: (5)

I agree. There is also too many posts of "Will this wheel fit?" "Will this bodykit look good with this?" "Just got new clears!", etc. The place is becoming a ricefest. Phil put it right, Maximas are just becoming to riced out. Most of the time these posts and replies are so pointless some of us just post smartass responses. For real reading you guys should check out dsmtalk IMHO, they provide better answers for Maxima problems than most of the maxima boards. The idea of wisemen sounds pretty good too. I wanted to post a thread like this a while back but like Jime, didn't know how to say it. Back in the days with Don in Texas, Daniel B. Martin and such this was a lot better forum IMHO. (Yes, i've been reading here for quite a while before actually becoming a member because i wasn't into modding the Maxima at that time).

LEMAR

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Ditto's all across the board

sbslacker

iTrader: (1)

In a public forum, as in life, it's hard to completely cut out all the BS. There will always be bad apples among us that make things difficult for others. I can only hope that the newer members here who ask questions have the common sense to 'shop around' and seek out second and third opinions for the answers that they get, rather than relying on the first response that comes their way.

It is such a bummer that the search function is not readily available to everybody. It is flat out the best way for newbies to recognize whom to listen to (experienced members with thoughtful, constructive, first-hand advice who know when to speak up and when to shut up) and whom not to listen to (pretty much everybody else).

I understand why the search function is available only to donating members and I'm in no way disrespecting Kevin & Jane's hard work and benevolent intentions for this site but still....the newbies need it the most. I wish there was a way...

Push2TheMax

Being a person who is totally new to the Maxima community. I'm glad to see that many of you who have been here a long time are trying to keep the "sanctity" I guess you could say. I know I have only a handful of posts, but it seems hard to find a decent answer/link to some questions. I think that you all, the concerned, are awesome. I came in here not too long ago with just about |<->| that much knowledge about Maxima's. And after time, I've started trying to answer my own questions, unless I've read the how-to's and am totally stumped.

Unfortunately......I think it's going to be very hard to crack down on the "d00d, my CAI will ownz j00" and "misinformation" type of stuff. Like some have said, there are younger members that tend to do that. I can think of some that have minded their P's and Q's, but it's needles in a haystack. I'm not sure what could be done, but I wanted to say good job Mods and Veterans. I'm glad to call this place my "iHome".

-Trav

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Perhaps we need a '/V\1$1/\/4/V\@T10/\/' section for the "LED" and the "d00d, my CAI will ownz j00" .

I think the format we have works well for the most part. And as much as I would like to see Technical, etc. sections within each chassis section, I know it really wouldn't make much of a difference for thread segregation. I will just continue to weed through the clutter and help random people when I feel the need to do so.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I've suggested this before in the feedback forum, a thread which I bump every few months. Kev and others insist it's too much work, even though it would be the exact same # of forums that we have now.

A "General Rice Crap" forum for blue headlight and carbon fiber dash kit questions, and then a "Technical" forum for each specific generation for gearheads.

For some reason they won't go for it and I honestly can't understand why for the life of me. I still love the .org but I think it could be improved.

DSMJim

Maybe somebody should make the 3rd 4th 5th and 6th gen forums (or whatever) for performance related talk not cosmetic. Then make one forum for only interior/exterior mods that have no performance value. At least the guys who are looking for info on clear corners (where we all started, be honest) can find it and address others who are interested in the same thing.

This will seperate all the performance from cosmetic threads up a bit. What is typically happening on these forums is 90% of the topics are in 30% of the forums. If you break it down a bit so performance is talked about here, cosmetic there, it will sift it out a bit.

The other thing is the search. I realize that bandwidth is the major hold back, however this board has enough members and should have enough sponsors that this should be affordable. Other sites I am on limit you to one search every 60 seconds so people are not running 10,000 searches a day. If there is not enough money at the end of the month (bandwidth) then charge more for advertising and encourage forum sponsorship, and product sponsorship advertising on the site. There are a lot of enthusiasts on this site who spend a lot of money through the industry, Maxima.org is providing a valuable resource for all these people to find companies, reviews of their products and others with those products. Make those manufacturer's pay for what they are getting, I'm sure they are more than willing, they already see the benefit of maxima.org, they advertise here now!

I worked for a major import magazine selling web advertising, and you will not believe what some companies are willing to pay for web advertising becase they know how powerful it is. If you don't ask for enough money, they are more than happy to not give it to you however...

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

I hate everybodys attitude when someone tries to develop something new or try something new. Everybody is like it can not be done! Stop being negative and give some encouragment god dammit.