All this talk about broken/torn engine mounts yet no pics?
12-24-2002, 11:21 AM
#1
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
All this talk about broken/torn engine mounts yet no pics?
Can someone please post a pic of what a torn or broken engine mount looks like? I constantly read posts by "Joe Blow" who say they tore an engine mount yet they don't post any pics. I'd like to see what these things look like just for reference.
Dave
Dave
12-24-2002, 11:27 AM
#2
Re: All this talk about broken/torn engine mounts yet no pics?
Originally posted by Dave B
Can someone please post a pic of what a torn or broken engine mount looks like? I constantly read posts by "Joe Blow" who say they tore an engine mount yet they don't post any pics. I'd like to see what these things look like just for reference.
Dave
Can someone please post a pic of what a torn or broken engine mount looks like? I constantly read posts by "Joe Blow" who say they tore an engine mount yet they don't post any pics. I'd like to see what these things look like just for reference.
Dave
F4 
12-24-2002, 07:05 PM
#14
Originally posted by gtr_rider
i dont have wheelhop, only had it once in the max's life
i dont have wheelhop, only had it once in the max's life
12-24-2002, 07:31 PM
#15
Originally posted by emax95
The more power you have the more wheel hop is created. Driving a manual transmission car makes it easier to create wheel hop too.
The more power you have the more wheel hop is created. Driving a manual transmission car makes it easier to create wheel hop too.
12-24-2002, 09:41 PM
#16
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally posted by emax95
The more power you have the more wheel hop is created. Driving a manual transmission car makes it easier to create wheel hop too.
The more power you have the more wheel hop is created. Driving a manual transmission car makes it easier to create wheel hop too.
I've watched quite a few Hondas wheel hop off the line and I no they don't have remotely the kind of power I've got. I do agree that wheel hop is a problem for manuals. I've never had problems with it and that's probably why I haven't torn a mount yet.
Dave
12-24-2002, 10:10 PM
#17
Originally posted by Dave B
I've watched quite a few Hondas wheel hop off the line and I no they don't have remotely the kind of power I've got. I do agree that wheel hop is a problem for manuals. I've never had problems with it and that's probably why I haven't torn a mount yet.
Dave
I've watched quite a few Hondas wheel hop off the line and I no they don't have remotely the kind of power I've got. I do agree that wheel hop is a problem for manuals. I've never had problems with it and that's probably why I haven't torn a mount yet.
Dave
The weight of a vehicle, tires and tire pressure will also have an effect on a vehicles ability to creat wheel hop.
12-24-2002, 10:13 PM
#18
Originally posted by emax95
Hmm, power must have some effect on wheel hope. Let's break this down. Lets take a car with 20 WHP, I am willing to bet you can't make the wheels hop in it, and very little if you can. Now a 200 WHP car can most definatly make the wheels hop and do a it a lot. I am using a crude example here but it shows that power does have an effect on wheel hop. Given this logic I am willing to bet a 500 WHP FWD car could creat much more hoop then a 200 WHP FWD car. For example a 500 WHP FWD car could surely make the wheels hop at a higher speed then a 200 WHP car. Using this logic I strongly beleive HP has an effect on wheel hop.
The weight of a vehicle, tires and tire pressure will also have an effect on a vehicles ability to creat wheel hop.
Hmm, power must have some effect on wheel hope. Let's break this down. Lets take a car with 20 WHP, I am willing to bet you can't make the wheels hop in it, and very little if you can. Now a 200 WHP car can most definatly make the wheels hop and do a it a lot. I am using a crude example here but it shows that power does have an effect on wheel hop. Given this logic I am willing to bet a 500 WHP FWD car could creat much more hoop then a 200 WHP FWD car. For example a 500 WHP FWD car could surely make the wheels hop at a higher speed then a 200 WHP car. Using this logic I strongly beleive HP has an effect on wheel hop.
The weight of a vehicle, tires and tire pressure will also have an effect on a vehicles ability to creat wheel hop.
12-24-2002, 10:35 PM
#19
Originally posted by gtr_rider
what if your axels are hella tight? Does that matter or not?
what if your axels are hella tight? Does that matter or not?
12-24-2002, 10:38 PM
#20
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Ethan-
I disagree because I know that Hondas, Sentras, Contour SVTs, and Neons get some pretty nasty wheelhop and most of these cars have less HP and a lot less torque. Here is one of the best explainations of wheel hop I've read:
Car & Driver "Wheel Hop":
"An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.
Wheel hop is one of the wildest mechanical temper tantrums a car can throw. Our tech feature, "How We Test Cars," on page 154 reminded me of the once-common phenomenon. In the presence of a peculiar mixture of high traction, limited compression damping, and just the right ratio of unsprung to sprung weight, a wheel or two will leap off the pavement briefly during hard acceleration.
As it rises an inch or two, the driven wheel speeds up when it's airborne, only to be jerked to a halt when it's grabbed by the pavement on its descent. If you keep your foot in it, the wheel then launches again to repeat the process, leaving a neat dotted line on the pavement as it hops up and down numerous times per second.
A hopping wheel doesn't produce much forward thrust, but it does play havoc with the driveline. Imagine the stress on the axle shafts, universal joints, gears, and bearings when these components are repeatedly accelerated and stopped.
No imagination was required two decades ago when I was testing a 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, one of the original GM J-cars, the guts of which still soldier on in today's Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire. Equipped with a manual transmission, that front-drive Firenza had hellacious wheel hop. About 50 feet into its third acceleration run, the thrust and the wheel hop suddenly ceased.
I braked, opened the door, and looked behind the car. Between the twin dotted lines of rubber laid down by the hopping tires was an oil trail sprinkled with numerous ***** and rollers that had been liberated from the Firenza's transaxle. When I and the none-too-happy GM engineer peeked under the car, we saw the transaxle had split open like a ripe peach, exposing its gears and shafts to the elements."
As you can see, even the way underpowered Oldsmobile Firenza was capable of destroying itself with wheel hop. This car probably put down half the power to the ground of what my car makes. You'll also see that wheelhop is not something that makes you quicker.
Dave
I disagree because I know that Hondas, Sentras, Contour SVTs, and Neons get some pretty nasty wheelhop and most of these cars have less HP and a lot less torque. Here is one of the best explainations of wheel hop I've read:
Car & Driver "Wheel Hop":
"An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.
Wheel hop is one of the wildest mechanical temper tantrums a car can throw. Our tech feature, "How We Test Cars," on page 154 reminded me of the once-common phenomenon. In the presence of a peculiar mixture of high traction, limited compression damping, and just the right ratio of unsprung to sprung weight, a wheel or two will leap off the pavement briefly during hard acceleration.
As it rises an inch or two, the driven wheel speeds up when it's airborne, only to be jerked to a halt when it's grabbed by the pavement on its descent. If you keep your foot in it, the wheel then launches again to repeat the process, leaving a neat dotted line on the pavement as it hops up and down numerous times per second.
A hopping wheel doesn't produce much forward thrust, but it does play havoc with the driveline. Imagine the stress on the axle shafts, universal joints, gears, and bearings when these components are repeatedly accelerated and stopped.
No imagination was required two decades ago when I was testing a 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, one of the original GM J-cars, the guts of which still soldier on in today's Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire. Equipped with a manual transmission, that front-drive Firenza had hellacious wheel hop. About 50 feet into its third acceleration run, the thrust and the wheel hop suddenly ceased.
I braked, opened the door, and looked behind the car. Between the twin dotted lines of rubber laid down by the hopping tires was an oil trail sprinkled with numerous ***** and rollers that had been liberated from the Firenza's transaxle. When I and the none-too-happy GM engineer peeked under the car, we saw the transaxle had split open like a ripe peach, exposing its gears and shafts to the elements."
As you can see, even the way underpowered Oldsmobile Firenza was capable of destroying itself with wheel hop. This car probably put down half the power to the ground of what my car makes. You'll also see that wheelhop is not something that makes you quicker.
Dave
12-24-2002, 10:47 PM
#21
Originally posted by Dave B
Ethan-
I disagree because I know that Hondas, Sentras, Contour SVTs, and Neons get some pretty nasty wheelhop and most of these cars have less HP and a lot less torque. Here is one of the best explainations of wheel hop I've read:
Car & Driver "Wheel Hop":
"An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.
Wheel hop is one of the wildest mechanical temper tantrums a car can throw. Our tech feature, "How We Test Cars," on page 154 reminded me of the once-common phenomenon. In the presence of a peculiar mixture of high traction, limited compression damping, and just the right ratio of unsprung to sprung weight, a wheel or two will leap off the pavement briefly during hard acceleration.
As it rises an inch or two, the driven wheel speeds up when it's airborne, only to be jerked to a halt when it's grabbed by the pavement on its descent. If you keep your foot in it, the wheel then launches again to repeat the process, leaving a neat dotted line on the pavement as it hops up and down numerous times per second.
A hopping wheel doesn't produce much forward thrust, but it does play havoc with the driveline. Imagine the stress on the axle shafts, universal joints, gears, and bearings when these components are repeatedly accelerated and stopped.
No imagination was required two decades ago when I was testing a 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, one of the original GM J-cars, the guts of which still soldier on in today's Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire. Equipped with a manual transmission, that front-drive Firenza had hellacious wheel hop. About 50 feet into its third acceleration run, the thrust and the wheel hop suddenly ceased.
I braked, opened the door, and looked behind the car. Between the twin dotted lines of rubber laid down by the hopping tires was an oil trail sprinkled with numerous ***** and rollers that had been liberated from the Firenza's transaxle. When I and the none-too-happy GM engineer peeked under the car, we saw the transaxle had split open like a ripe peach, exposing its gears and shafts to the elements."
As you can see, even the way underpowered Oldsmobile Firenza was capable of destroying itself with wheel hop. This car probably put down half the power to the ground of what my car makes. You'll also see that wheelhop is not something that makes you quicker.
Dave
Ethan-
I disagree because I know that Hondas, Sentras, Contour SVTs, and Neons get some pretty nasty wheelhop and most of these cars have less HP and a lot less torque. Here is one of the best explainations of wheel hop I've read:
Car & Driver "Wheel Hop":
"An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.
Wheel hop is one of the wildest mechanical temper tantrums a car can throw. Our tech feature, "How We Test Cars," on page 154 reminded me of the once-common phenomenon. In the presence of a peculiar mixture of high traction, limited compression damping, and just the right ratio of unsprung to sprung weight, a wheel or two will leap off the pavement briefly during hard acceleration.
As it rises an inch or two, the driven wheel speeds up when it's airborne, only to be jerked to a halt when it's grabbed by the pavement on its descent. If you keep your foot in it, the wheel then launches again to repeat the process, leaving a neat dotted line on the pavement as it hops up and down numerous times per second.
A hopping wheel doesn't produce much forward thrust, but it does play havoc with the driveline. Imagine the stress on the axle shafts, universal joints, gears, and bearings when these components are repeatedly accelerated and stopped.
No imagination was required two decades ago when I was testing a 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, one of the original GM J-cars, the guts of which still soldier on in today's Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire. Equipped with a manual transmission, that front-drive Firenza had hellacious wheel hop. About 50 feet into its third acceleration run, the thrust and the wheel hop suddenly ceased.
I braked, opened the door, and looked behind the car. Between the twin dotted lines of rubber laid down by the hopping tires was an oil trail sprinkled with numerous ***** and rollers that had been liberated from the Firenza's transaxle. When I and the none-too-happy GM engineer peeked under the car, we saw the transaxle had split open like a ripe peach, exposing its gears and shafts to the elements."
As you can see, even the way underpowered Oldsmobile Firenza was capable of destroying itself with wheel hop. This car probably put down half the power to the ground of what my car makes. You'll also see that wheelhop is not something that makes you quicker.
Dave
12-25-2002, 04:55 AM
#22
My definition of Wheelhop
From what I've observed here, and felt while driving aggressively, is that wheelhop is a function of 2 things, the car's driveline components, and the engine's actual power. Wheelhop is an oscillation type movement, like a pendulum. The frequency of the pendulum movement is determined strictly by the length of its arm. The duration of the pendulum movement is determined by the mass of the pendulum. Analogizing, the engine would be like the pendulum, the more powerful it is, the bigger the pendulum, and the longer wheelhop will last as power increases. The suspension components will be like the length of the pendulum. The suspension, motor mounts etc detrmine the frequency. It's really easy to make a pendulum on a short arm oscillate, but the same pendulum on a long arm takes a whole lot more energy. So, the best way to attack the wheelhop issue is to adjust the frequency, motor mounts or suspension. 
DW
DW
12-25-2002, 10:23 AM
#23
Originally posted by emax95
Thats a nice article Dave, I learned a lot. However my point still stands. Give that same olds another 100 WHP and it will definatly have more WHP. Take 100 HP away form that same car and it will have far less to no wheel hop.
Thats a nice article Dave, I learned a lot. However my point still stands. Give that same olds another 100 WHP and it will definatly have more WHP. Take 100 HP away form that same car and it will have far less to no wheel hop.
Actually...I also disagree Ethan. My max with a 100 shot of Nitrous NEVER hopped...but N/A it does it all the time. With the torque that the nitrous produced, my wheels never had a chance to hop...they simply spun like mad.
Your theory is kaput
12-25-2002, 01:28 PM
#25
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
I think a lot of wheelhop issue guys have has to do a lot with how they launch and the stickiness of the track. If you dump the clutch really fast from a relatively high rpm and have a halfway sticky clutch, the driveline shock and traction will most likely induce wheel hop.
When I launch at the track, I slip the clutch from 2500-3500rpms just until I feel start to grab, but I'm not moving. Then when the final amber lights off, I moderately release the clutch and compensate the throttle to keep the rpms at my desired 3000rpm range. Once I'm rolling, I quickly release the clutch and go WOT. This usually nets me mid to higher 2.2 60 foots and sometime low 2.2s (not spectacular 60 foots, but not horrible). I still get spin, but it's not too dramatic. I never get wheel hop on or off the track when "racing". I
have gotten wheelhop in the past, but I noticed it only occurs when release the clutch too fast with higher rpm launch. The only time I get wheel hop now is on slick surfaces. It's flat out violent when it happens too.
Dave
When I launch at the track, I slip the clutch from 2500-3500rpms just until I feel start to grab, but I'm not moving. Then when the final amber lights off, I moderately release the clutch and compensate the throttle to keep the rpms at my desired 3000rpm range. Once I'm rolling, I quickly release the clutch and go WOT. This usually nets me mid to higher 2.2 60 foots and sometime low 2.2s (not spectacular 60 foots, but not horrible). I still get spin, but it's not too dramatic. I never get wheel hop on or off the track when "racing". I
have gotten wheelhop in the past, but I noticed it only occurs when release the clutch too fast with higher rpm launch. The only time I get wheel hop now is on slick surfaces. It's flat out violent when it happens too.
Dave
12-25-2002, 03:08 PM
#26
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
Actually...I also disagree Ethan. My max with a 100 shot of Nitrous NEVER hopped...but N/A it does it all the time. With the torque that the nitrous produced, my wheels never had a chance to hop...they simply spun like mad.
Your theory is kaput
Actually...I also disagree Ethan. My max with a 100 shot of Nitrous NEVER hopped...but N/A it does it all the time. With the torque that the nitrous produced, my wheels never had a chance to hop...they simply spun like mad.
Your theory is kaput
12-28-2002, 05:41 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 816
94 Shore Urethane
Check out my site to see how I repaired mine on my SE-R. Fill em' with 94 Shore urethane.
Curt B. Shumaker
http://members.cardomain.com/shumax
Curt B. Shumaker
http://members.cardomain.com/shumax
12-30-2002, 06:46 AM
#29
For the power vs. wheelhop debate...I can say that going up a hill by where my parents live, in the max, if I punch the gas almost to WOT while cruising in 1st, I'll hop nasty. I'll never do that again
But in my integ, even w/the short gearing, I never had it hop on that hill. I would have had to've dropped the clutch pretty aggressively probably.
But in my integ, even w/the short gearing, I never had it hop on that hill. I would have had to've dropped the clutch pretty aggressively probably.
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