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Old 10-02-2002, 04:41 PM   #1
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Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

I tend to use my 5th gear when I drive in the city at lower speeds too. I've heard opinions that say that is a good thing, so as to save on gas. But then I've also heard of opinions that doing that is bad because it puts added stress on the engine, which takes away from its life/performance in the long term. My question is, is there any truth to that second opinion? Should I avoid driving in 5th gear at lower speeds?

Another question I have is, is it bad for the engine to floor it in 5th gear at lower RPMs (1000 RPM for example).
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Old 10-02-2002, 04:57 PM   #2
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Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by speedemn
I tend to use my 5th gear when I drive in the city at lower speeds too. I've heard opinions that say that is a good thing, so as to save on gas. But then I've also heard of opinions that doing that is bad because it puts added stress on the engine, which takes away from its life/performance in the long term. My question is, is there any truth to that second opinion? Should I avoid driving in 5th gear at lower speeds?

Another question I have is, is it bad for the engine to floor it in 5th gear at lower RPMs (1000 RPM for example).
It is not bad, most people that I know do that with their manuals because it saves on gas and puts less stress on the engine...
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:10 PM   #3
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Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by ivelweyz


It is not bad, most people that I know do that with their manuals because it saves on gas and puts less stress on the engine...
If you drive in the city at a constant cruise speed of 36 and up use the 5th gear, other wise 4th should be the highest.
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:25 PM   #4
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Never use your 5th gear in low speeds. You causing more damamge then good. Be in the gear ur suppose to be. I engage in to 5th at like 50-60. Whats up with saving gas??? U will save like $2 worth of gas but fukc up ur engine and tranny. There is more load on the tranny when cruising at low speeds in 5th then other lower gears. Take a Nissan factory manual and see the speed rating for each gear.
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:36 PM   #5
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and what damage is that exactly?
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by lophix
and what damage is that exactly?
Extra wear and tear.
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:52 PM   #7
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hmm....in that case, i'd better stop using 5th to impress my girl at 20-30mph on campus.
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Old 10-02-2002, 05:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by lophix
hmm....in that case, i'd better stop using 5th to impress my girl at 20-30mph on campus.
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Old 10-02-2002, 06:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA


well the pulling power is something to be admired isnt it??
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Old 10-02-2002, 06:12 PM   #10
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I dont think its that good from 5th.
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Old 10-02-2002, 06:15 PM   #11
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easy way to burn thru a clutch...

keep it up...

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Old 10-02-2002, 06:18 PM   #12
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Re: easy way to burn thru a clutch...

Quote:
Originally posted by My4DSC2000
keep it up...

not taking off from fifth da, going through all the gears all the way to 5th at 20-30mph.....oh and while we're at it, what do you think of pushing your third hard and then shifting to fifth?
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Old 10-02-2002, 07:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
Never use your 5th gear in low speeds. You causing more damamge then good. Be in the gear ur suppose to be. I engage in to 5th at like 50-60. Whats up with saving gas??? U will save like $2 worth of gas but fukc up ur engine and tranny. There is more load on the tranny when cruising at low speeds in 5th then other lower gears. Take a Nissan factory manual and see the speed rating for each gear.
it wont kill your engine or tranny. The a 5 th gear is overdrive so the rear ratio is 1:1 or less this wont give your car much power and the trourqe wont be there when you need it. i have never heard of a problem running your car in a higher gear. The real problems are when you run to high with a low gear, thats where its really bad
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Old 10-02-2002, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA


Extra wear and tear.
I see no credibility in this statement at all. What would cause more engine and trans wear at a LOWER RPM?????

BTW - how many VQs have you heard of "wearing out" or how bout the 5-speed gearboxs?? (besides the differential carrier bearings, they have NOTHING to do with what gear you are in)
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Old 10-03-2002, 12:00 AM   #15
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Re: Re: easy way to burn thru a clutch...

pushing 3rd hard and shifting to 5th is fine. It's not helping your gas mileage, but it's really not doing anything bad. I have a 6-speed and skip 5th all the time. 4th is more fun on the highway so I go from 6-4 to pass/accelerate then back to 6th to maintain speed.

Quote:
Originally posted by lophix

not taking off from fifth da, going through all the gears all the way to 5th at 20-30mph.....oh and while we're at it, what do you think of pushing your third hard and then shifting to fifth?
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Old 10-03-2002, 03:11 AM   #16
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Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by speedemn
I tend to use my 5th gear when I drive in the city at lower speeds too. I've heard opinions that say that is a good thing, so as to save on gas. But then I've also heard of opinions that doing that is bad because it puts added stress on the engine, which takes away from its life/performance in the long term. My question is, is there any truth to that second opinion? Should I avoid driving in 5th gear at lower speeds?

Another question I have is, is it bad for the engine to floor it in 5th gear at lower RPMs (1000 RPM for example).
IMHO, for a given engine load, inceasing RPM decreases stress (up to a point!). 1) Engine coolant and oil flow are proportional to RPM. Both fluids complete more cycles through the system at higher RPM. As a result, cooling efficiency for both systems should be better at higher RPM. 2) Oil pressure is also proportional to RPM. Especially at low RPM. Side loads imparted on the crank journals will have a harder time squeezing the oil film out when the pressure is higher. 3) Side loads between rotating parts and their bearing will be distributed more rapidly, again reducing the tendency of the oil film to be squeezed out.

Even if I'm right in my reasoning, it's not going to make a big difference in the real world durability of the car (again IMHO). There are other factors that have a much bigger impact.
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Old 10-03-2002, 03:14 AM   #17
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Re: Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

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Originally posted by SonicDust187
If you drive in the city at a constant cruise speed of 36 and up use the 5th gear, other wise 4th should be the highest.
5th gear at 36? I don't shift out of 3rd until I know I'll be maintaining more than 45. 3 to 3.5 KRPM is where the fun starts.
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Old 10-03-2002, 04:43 AM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by pblaze


5th gear at 36? I don't shift out of 3rd until I know I'll be maintaining more than 45. 3 to 3.5 KRPM is where the fun starts.
I don't engauge my 5th gear untill I am moving at least 40mph.
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Old 10-03-2002, 05:56 AM   #19
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Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by SonicDust187
I don't engauge my 5th gear untill I am moving at least 40mph.
The great thing about a manual tranny is that you can drive it however you want to. It's one of the reasons I've never had a slush box car for a daily driver. In my opinion there's no problem with oozing along in 5th at under 2000 RPM unless you spend a lot of time there at high load.
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Old 10-03-2002, 07:08 AM   #20
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Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by speedemn
Another question I have is, is it bad for the engine to floor it in 5th gear at lower RPMs (1000 RPM for example).
Why in the hell would you do this?

Lugging the engine like this is extremely tough on the pistons. The throttle is opened 100% and you're pushing the engine extremely hard, yet when the combustion starts, the pistons are hardly even moving and they're stuck right in the center of the combustion. It's a good way to burn up your pistons and put a lot of wear on your rings. From what I've read, it's also rough on the main bearings as well.

Lugging is definitely *not* something you want to do.

Whenever I'm below 2000rpm in a higher gear, I don't give it more than about one-quarter throttle until I get up to 2000rpm where the engine starts to make some torque and can actually pull away cleanly. Full throttle at 1000rpm in 5th is just insane.
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Old 10-03-2002, 07:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by lophix
hmm....in that case, i'd better stop using 5th to impress my girl at 20-30mph on campus.


She probably doesn't even understand what gears are, and is just wondering why in the hell your car is so freakin slow!
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Old 10-03-2002, 07:23 AM   #22
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Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC
Why in the hell would you do this?

Lugging is definitely *not* something you want to do.

Whenever I'm below 2000rpm in a higher gear, I don't give it more than about one-quarter throttle until I get up to 2000rpm where the engine starts to make some torque and can actually pull away cleanly. Full throttle at 1000rpm in 5th is just insane.
Flooring in 5th is equivalent to half throttle or so in 4th. The way I see it, I'm saving the clutch by not shifting down 5-4 and then back up 4-5. Instead I would just give it 3/4 - full throttle in 5th. But I wasn't sure if it was bad or not.

Just as a general rule, what RPM (and above) should I be in, if I want to go full throttle in any gear? Is 1500RPM+ okay or should it be even higher, like 2000RPM+? (ie I want to have an idea, that if I am in x RPM - y RPM range I shouldn't be in 5th gear - and does this apply to all the other gears too)

Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2002, 08:20 AM   #23
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Lets see...after driving my car 120K miles, it seems to be just fine cruising along at 5th at 30-35 mph. No I don't give the car heavy throttle but as all the ads for the 4th gen said, it has 90% or so of its torque at 1800 rpm. So there's plenty of torque to accelerate around town. I agree WOT at low rpm in high gear puts uneeded pressure on the engine and driveline components. But cruising at low rpms in high gear is fine. I average around 26-30 mpg with city/highway driving in my 95 5 speed.
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:07 AM   #24
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Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC
Why in the hell would you do this?

Lugging the engine like this is extremely tough on the pistons. The throttle is opened 100% and you're pushing the engine extremely hard, yet when the combustion starts, the pistons are hardly even moving and they're stuck right in the center of the combustion. It's a good way to burn up your pistons and put a lot of wear on your rings. From what I've read, it's also rough on the main bearings as well.

Lugging is definitely *not* something you want to do.

Whenever I'm below 2000rpm in a higher gear, I don't give it more than about one-quarter throttle until I get up to 2000rpm where the engine starts to make some torque and can actually pull away cleanly. Full throttle at 1000rpm in 5th is just insane.
Bravo...Well said. And it takes a full two pages of this thread for someone to finally answer correctly? sheesh...
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:50 AM   #25
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Re: Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by speedemn
Flooring in 5th is equivalent to half throttle or so in 4th. The way I see it, I'm saving the clutch by not shifting down 5-4 and then back up 4-5. Instead I would just give it 3/4 - full throttle in 5th. But I wasn't sure if it was bad or not.
If you're rev-matching and applying throttle properly, you won't be putting any wear on the clutch at all. The clutch only wears when it's slipping, and if you're rev-matching like you should be and not adding power until the clutch is fully hooked up, there's almost zero clutch wear.

Quote:
Originally posted by speedemn
Just as a general rule, what RPM (and above) should I be in, if I want to go full throttle in any gear? Is 1500RPM+ okay or should it be even higher, like 2000RPM+? (ie I want to have an idea, that if I am in x RPM - y RPM range I shouldn't be in 5th gear - and does this apply to all the other gears too) Thanks.
LOL, well there's no exact science to it. Just think of it this way. If an auto tranny would have downshifted, then you should be downshifting too. If you mash all over the gas at 20 mph in 4th in an automatic, what happens? That sucker downshifts to 1st and you start hauling in a hurry. If you want harder acceleration, there's absolutely zero point in lugging the engine in a higher gear than it can pull at any given speed. This is not how a manual tranny car should be driven.

The only time I ever go full-throttle below 2000rpm is in 1st gear, which will accelerate the car hard enough that you're not lugging the engine. If I'm cruising in traffic at 10 mph in 2nd (1000rpm) and I need to pull out fast, I either rev-match down to 1st if I have time, or just ease it up to about 50% throttle until around 1800-2000rpm where the VQ gets moving and *then* gas it.

Heavy throttle in a manual Max below 2000rpm in a higher gear is just pointless. You get massive engine lugging and strain, and not much acceleration anyways.

Downshift!
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Old 10-03-2002, 10:36 AM   #26
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You don't get better gas mileage necessarily in 5th gear, our cars also dump more fuel related to throttle position and being in 5th you need more throttle to keep speed then in lower gears.

On another note, I'm curious about what you guys think the Maxima (especially a SC'd one) can safely do for constant 5th gear highway RPMs.

2500 in 60MPH, I think 100 is like 4200rpm or near there. I feel bad making the engine work that hard for long periods of time so I keep it at or below 3500 for long distances, what do you guys think? I wish I had a car like a vette that can cruise at 100MPH at like 2500RPM.
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Old 10-03-2002, 10:38 AM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC
If you're rev-matching and applying throttle properly, you won't be putting any wear on the clutch at all. The clutch only wears when it's slipping, and if you're rev-matching like you should be and not adding power until the clutch is fully hooked up, there's almost zero clutch wear.

LOL, well there's no exact science to it. Just think of it this way. If an auto tranny would have downshifted, then you should be downshifting too. If you mash all over the gas at 20 mph in 4th in an automatic, what happens? That sucker downshifts to 1st and you start hauling in a hurry. If you want harder acceleration, there's absolutely zero point in lugging the engine in a higher gear than it can pull at any given speed. This is not how a manual tranny car should be driven.

The only time I ever go full-throttle below 2000rpm is in 1st gear, which will accelerate the car hard enough that you're not lugging the engine. If I'm cruising in traffic at 10 mph in 2nd (1000rpm) and I need to pull out fast, I either rev-match down to 1st if I have time, or just ease it up to about 50% throttle until around 1800-2000rpm where the VQ gets moving and *then* gas it.

Heavy throttle in a manual Max below 2000rpm in a higher gear is just pointless. You get massive engine lugging and strain, and not much acceleration anyways.

Downshift!
I completely agree that there is almost no point in leaving the car in a higher gear and gassing it..when you can simply downshift, and get the power you need.

BUT, I don't think ANYONE should worry about "too much" throttle at too low an RPM in any give gear....How many VQs have we had "wear out" period...let alone becuase of this so-called lugging of the engine at low rpms...

For you, maybe giving it only half thottle in second from 1000-1800rpms gives you some kind of piece of mind...but by no means should someone adopt this habit as a way of supposedly prolonging the life of their engine.
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Old 10-03-2002, 11:10 AM   #28
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Because of the 3.0L VQ's large 2.0:1 rod:stroke ratio, the side forces imparted on the piston rings are very, very small. Also because of the large R:S ratio, the piston speeds are relatively small compared to more conventional geometry engines (1.75:1). The engine is also extremely well balanced. All of these mean the engine can run at sustained high rpms for long periods of time with the same equivalent wear as a more conventional geometry engine. For example, an engine with a 1.5:1 R:S ratio (some Hondas) will run the pistons at 25% greater piston speed compared to the Maxima. This means the piston speed of the Honda at 3000 rpm is the same as the 3.0 VQ at 3750 rpm. Likewise, the side forces on the piston rings are also much less.

In summary, the 3.0L VQ can sustain longer periods of high rpms compared to most other engines because of the engine design (internal geometry). Personally, I have done extended trips at 90+ mph (5 speed so 4000ish rpm) with no issues whatsoever. It also helps that the Maxima has a top-notch cooling system, which allows the engine to remain cool, which is typically more of a concern at high speeds for extended periods than piston speeds, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
You don't get better gas mileage necessarily in 5th gear, our cars also dump more fuel related to throttle position and being in 5th you need more throttle to keep speed then in lower gears.

On another note, I'm curious about what you guys think the Maxima (especially a SC'd one) can safely do for constant 5th gear highway RPMs.

2500 in 60MPH, I think 100 is like 4200rpm or near there. I feel bad making the engine work that hard for long periods of time so I keep it at or below 3500 for long distances, what do you guys think? I wish I had a car like a vette that can cruise at 100MPH at like 2500RPM.
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Old 10-03-2002, 11:13 AM   #29
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Originally posted by Keven97SE
Because of the 3.0L VQ's large 2.0:1 rod:stroke ratio, the side forces imparted on the piston rings are very, very small. Also because of the large R:S ratio, the piston speeds are relatively small compared to more conventional geometry engines (1.75:1). The engine is also extremely well balanced. All of these mean the engine can run at sustained high rpms for long periods of time with the same equivalent wear as a more conventional geometry engine. For example, an engine with a 1.5:1 R:S ratio (some Hondas) will run the pistons at 25% greater piston speed compared to the Maxima. This means the piston speed of the Honda at 3000 rpm is the same as the 3.0 VQ at 3750 rpm. Likewise, the side forces on the piston rings are also much less.

In summary, the 3.0L VQ can sustain longer periods of high rpms compared to most other engines because of the engine design (internal geometry). Personally, I have done extended trips at 90+ mph (5 speed so 4000ish rpm) with no issues whatsoever. It also helps that the Maxima has a top-notch cooling system, which allows the engine to remain cool, which is typically more of a concern at high speeds for extended periods than piston speeds, etc.

Cooling system, what is it about the cooling system that is so great, I've overheated my car because of a faulty fan, but it overheated very fast.
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Old 10-03-2002, 11:55 AM   #30
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Uh yeah, it overheated because your fan was dead. You need the fan to make the cooling system work when the car is sitting there idling, as there's no air movement across the radiator otherwise. Any radiator needs airflow across it to work properly. The VQ's cooling system isn't so advanced as to defy the laws of physics.

The cooling system design was novel at the time the motor was developed to provide enhanced heat cooling to the cylinders and heads. It does an excellent job keeping the coolant temp stable regardless of the weather conditions. I have never had my temp needle move even a bit from just under mid-line in spite of running very hard in very hot temps. Stays the same for cold weather too. And yes, the gauge does work.

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Originally posted by Bandit


Cooling system, what is it about the cooling system that is so great, I've overheated my car because of a faulty fan, but it overheated very fast.
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Old 10-03-2002, 12:14 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Driving in 5th gear at low speeds

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Originally posted by BriGuyMax
For you, maybe giving it only half thottle in second from 1000-1800rpms gives you some kind of piece of mind...but by no means should someone adopt this habit as a way of supposedly prolonging the life of their engine.
Yeah I drive like that just for peace of mind. I agree that nothing would probably happen long term if you drove like that. But I just don't like to feel like I'm abusing my equipment
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Old 10-03-2002, 12:14 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Keven97SE
Uh yeah, it overheated because your fan was dead. You need the fan to make the cooling system work when the car is sitting there idling, as there's no air movement across the radiator otherwise. Any radiator needs airflow across it to work properly. The VQ's cooling system isn't so advanced as to defy the laws of physics.

The cooling system design was novel at the time the motor was developed to provide enhanced heat cooling to the cylinders and heads. It does an excellent job keeping the coolant temp stable regardless of the weather conditions. I have never had my temp needle move even a bit from just under mid-line in spite of running very hard in very hot temps. Stays the same for cold weather too. And yes, the gauge does work.

I know a system needs a fan, but it always has the second A/C fan and it does not take long without that fan to heat it up (or at least any longer then any normal car). I was just thinking if it was some SUPERIOR design that it would last a little longer before overheating without the fan. You are right about the needle never moving though, but I had come across some guy's webpage with a SC maxima in california that was running at like 95-100MPH for 100 miles and ended up with melted pistons and his temp needle hadn't even risen.
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Old 10-03-2002, 01:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit

but I had come across some guy's webpage with a SC maxima in california that was running at like 95-100MPH for 100 miles and ended up with melted pistons and his temp needle hadn't even risen.

That "guy" was BrianV and he was running at 85mph....not 95-100mph....his pistons melting had absoultely NOTHING to do with the engine overheating (it didn't overheat at all). He had an excessively lean condition in two of his cylinders that made the cylinder temps rise to VERY high levels...something that the cooling system cannot compensate for.
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Old 10-03-2002, 01:21 PM   #34
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Originally posted by BriGuyMax



That "guy" was BrianV and he was running at 85mph....not 95-100mph....his pistons melting had absoultely NOTHING to do with the engine overheating (it didn't overheat at all). He had an excessively lean condition in two of his cylinders that made the cylinder temps rise to VERY high levels...something that the cooling system cannot compensate for.
I wasn't aware there was a fuel system problem, but in a sense that could be one of the only explanations for such a thing, it's just since then I've been sort of afraid of running my car at high speeds, and I'm often in high temp environments. Before the SC I had success with driving 110+ for extended periods of time.
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Old 10-03-2002, 07:46 PM   #35
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Personally, I have done extended trips at 90+ mph (5 speed so 4000ish rpm)
I've done this too but I was at 110-115 for a couple of hours straight. car was fine.
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Old 10-03-2002, 08:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kashoggio
it wont kill your engine or tranny. The a 5 th gear is overdrive so the rear ratio is 1:1 or less this wont give your car much power and the trourqe wont be there when you need it. i have never heard of a problem running your car in a higher gear. The real problems are when you run to high with a low gear, thats where its really bad
5th is not an overdrive. Drive a mustang COBRA and you will find out what an overdive is. 5th is the gear you reach your top speed thus its not an overdrive. Cars like cobra the 5th gear always StAys at like 2500 RPM and doesnt move.

Wanna know what wear and tear? U are causing preassure on ur flywheel and burning ur clutch. Why dont you drive in 5th all the time.

I get ~250 Miles per tank in NY traffik and like 450 on the highway. aND i DRIVE ROUGH.
What do you get driving in 5th all the time???
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:51 PM   #37
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Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA


5th is not an overdrive. Drive a mustang COBRA and you will find out what an overdive is. 5th is the gear you reach your top speed thus its not an overdrive. Cars like cobra the 5th gear always StAys at like 2500 RPM and doesnt move.

Wanna know what wear and tear? U are causing preassure on ur flywheel and burning ur clutch. Why dont you drive in 5th all the time.

I get ~250 Miles per tank in NY traffik and like 450 on the highway. aND i DRIVE ROUGH.
What do you get driving in 5th all the time???
I will be sure to listen to what you say since you know what your talking about Where do people come up with this type of stuff?????
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA


5th is not an overdrive. Drive a mustang COBRA and you will find out what an overdive is. 5th is the gear you reach your top speed thus its not an overdrive. Cars like cobra the 5th gear always StAys at like 2500 RPM and doesnt move.

Wanna know what wear and tear? U are causing preassure on ur flywheel and burning ur clutch. Why dont you drive in 5th all the time.

I get ~250 Miles per tank in NY traffik and like 450 on the highway. aND i DRIVE ROUGH.
What do you get driving in 5th all the time???

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. the ratio of our 5th gear in our maximas is .795

Anything less than 1.00 is OVERDRIVEN....hence the name OVER DRIVE.

If you think a Mustang Cobra in 5th gear stays at 2500rpms no matter what speed it is going, you need a lesson in how an automobile transmisson works.

BTW...would you like to also tell me how you are "burning" you clutch when it's fully engaged in a gear??????
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:55 PM   #39
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Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA


5th is not an overdrive. Drive a mustang COBRA and you will find out what an overdive is. 5th is the gear you reach your top speed thus its not an overdrive. Cars like cobra the 5th gear always StAys at like 2500 RPM and doesnt move.

Wanna know what wear and tear? U are causing preassure on ur flywheel and burning ur clutch. Why dont you drive in 5th all the time.

I get ~250 Miles per tank in NY traffik and like 450 on the highway. aND i DRIVE ROUGH.
What do you get driving in 5th all the time???
You are way off base. 5th gear in the 5spd Max IS an overdrive gear. It's ratio is .795:1. .795 < 1. Hence it's overdriven.

Your statement about overdrive gears always staying at the same RPM is wrong. What is it some sort of magic size changing carburized steel?
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by BriGuyMax



You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. the ratio of our 5th gear in our maximas is .795

Anything less than 1.00 is OVERDRIVEN....hence the name OVER DRIVE.

If you think a Mustang Cobra in 5th gear stays at 2500rpms no matter what speed it is going, you need a lesson in how an automobile transmisson works.

BTW...would you like to also tell me how you are "burning" you clutch when it's fully engaged in a gear??????
Dude JINX buy me a Coke. hahaha
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Old 10-03-2002, 09:56 PM
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