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Looks like ill be learning how to do rust repair and body work pretty quick in the next few months. My friend bought a 68 Cougar yesterday for 400 bucks. And the last time it was registered was 1982, the car is a southern car so it does have quite a bit of rust in the quarters and floor pans. The body has no big dents at ALL just a few dings and that is it.
Things we already have or are planning on it:
POR15
Media Blaster
Grinders, cutting wheels, wire wheels, etc...
A flux core MIG and a Stick Welder
Rivet gun
Ive heard great things about POR15 but its pretty pricey and im sure we would use it in the quarters, and and fenders but what would be a good rust converter that is affordable for spots with just surface rust like the roof, trunk, and top?
What about just paint sealers in general? Is the duplicolor stuff pretty good?
And for the MIG what kind of wire can be used as a "filler" for some of the small pin holes.
Feel free to share your opinions on some of the methods and chemicals you have used to fix rust on your maxima's radiator support or other vehicles.
Looks like ill be learning how to do rust repair and body work pretty quick in the next few months. My friend bought a 68 Cougar yesterday for 400 bucks. And the last time it was registered was 1982, the car is a southern car so it does have quite a bit of rust in the quarters and floor pans. The body has no big dents at ALL just a few dings and that is it.
Things we already have or are planning on it:
POR15
Media Blaster
Grinders, cutting wheels, wire wheels, etc...
A flux core MIG and a Stick Welder
Rivet gun
Ive heard great things about POR15 but its pretty pricey and im sure we would use it in the quarters, and and fenders but what would be a good rust converter that is affordable for spots with just surface rust like the roof, trunk, and top?
What about just paint sealers in general? Is the duplicolor stuff pretty good?
And for the MIG what kind of wire can be used as a "filler" for some of the small pin holes.
Feel free to share your opinions on some of the methods and chemicals you have used to fix rust on your maxima's radiator support or other vehicles.
Mine was a mess - I just replaced the radiator and the metal under there was the worst. Literally flaking off by touching it. I basically just took extremely coarse belt sander paper and attacked it. Then I sprayed on a penetrant to see if that would loosen it up more. Then sanded again. In between I used an air blow gun to blast the particles into the air - and into my hair. I had a rusty pillow for a week.
Finally once all the particles were blown off, I mixed 5W-30 engine oil & NLGI No. 2 Grease into a green slime goop bucket. Then with a paint brush, I smeared this goop all over everything. It soaked in and I left it like that. I figured it might be better for it to stay greasy and wet maybe to be water resistant.
Other bad areas were around the transmission mounting areas, around the coolant drain bolt on the engine block, even some rust on the oil pan. The green slime dripped on some parts that caused a nice smoke show when I started the car up.
If you are going for major body work, I assume you are doing a frame off restoration. The wire wheels won't help you too much with the body.
Get a good media blaster and shoot the body. then epoxy primer it. once you notice the swiss cheese, start cutting sheet metal out.
As you get pieces out, you will notice more rust behind the panels you couldnt see becasue they were covered.
When you get to making your own sheet metal, do it in small pieces. you never want to cut a piece so large the rest of the panel changes shape. you can also get a basic metal stretch for this stuff--especially around the wheel wheels, windshield channel, weatherstipping type-areas.
Get a GAS mig welder. Do not do wire/rosin core for this. Also forget the rivets. learn to do a proper stitch.
Don't forget to spray the BACK of all your sheet metal patches with weld-through primer.
you also might find a TIG welder handy to melt some silicon-bronze. it's very useful for filling in areas that do not need a whole piece of tin--but still have a lot of holes. you can just melt the sil-bronze rod with the tig. It's kinda like spackle for metal.
I have used their "Rust Encapsulator" product with great results.
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HID Fog Lights. Otto Racing FSTB. Progress RSB. Falken Torque 5/GoodYear Eagle GTs. Cattman B-Pipe, Hi-Flo Cat. Techna-Fit SS lines. Hayden Tranny Cooler. Ground Wire Kit. Big Brakes, H&R Springs(in garage). and Illuminas coming to Maxima near me.
If you are going for major body work, I assume you are doing a frame off restoration. The wire wheels won't help you too much with the body.
Get a good media blaster and shoot the body. then epoxy primer it. once you notice the swiss cheese, start cutting sheet metal out.
As you get pieces out, you will notice more rust behind the panels you couldnt see becasue they were covered.
When you get to making your own sheet metal, do it in small pieces. you never want to cut a piece so large the rest of the panel changes shape. you can also get a basic metal stretch for this stuff--especially around the wheel wheels, windshield channel, weatherstipping type-areas.
Get a GAS mig welder. Do not do wire/rosin core for this. Also forget the rivets. learn to do a proper stitch.
Don't forget to spray the BACK of all your sheet metal patches with weld-through primer.
you also might find a TIG welder handy to melt some silicon-bronze. it's very useful for filling in areas that do not need a whole piece of tin--but still have a lot of holes. you can just melt the sil-bronze rod with the tig. It's kinda like spackle for metal.
hope that helps some.
Thanks! Me and my friend have been talking about what all we are going to do to the car. It isnt going to be a frame off resto, just enough to get the car to a weekend status vehicle, fix and seal as much rust as we can. Since the car is sitting outdoors still we ended up wire wheeling and sanding off most of the surface rust on the body, and just spraybombed it with some rust converter, some primer and then some sealer primer for now until he gets a garage for it.
+1 on using POR 15.
It really "seals off" the rust!
As far as MIG Welding small holes, I'd recommend using a 110V Welder using .025" wire. Real easy unless you have a "ton" of rust near the hole!
I had water pooling on my floors this spring and was not sure why until I took out the back seat and found that my wheel wells were seriously rusted. Pushed my hand right through them. I cleaned them up as best I could and did a fiberglass job on it. Then sprayed with a rustproofiing paint followed by a foaming undercoating substance.
Jildon, I've been doing some experimenting. (I don't know how rust works exactly), but even when you cover it with paint, I'm pretty sure it's still rusting from within. Think about it this way - you cover it with rust paint, then you notice 1 yr later it's bubbling or starting to show through the paint? I would think that because the air isn't getting to it, it shouldn't rust, but then it pops up AGAIN?
I've been experimenting with different types of greases and what i've found is that the oil & grease may be the best effort to slow the rust.
We'll see though - it's very hard in Canada to find something that will stand up to the constant slush, salt spray here. Conventional grease (lithium soap base) or oil just comes off when the slush freezes to the metal then thaws or falls off...(wet snow being thrown up into the wheel well) I am going to test this crazy mining grease (barium base) I have, that appears to stick like glue.
Jildon, I've been doing some experimenting. (I don't know how rust works exactly), but even when you cover it with paint, I'm pretty sure it's still rusting from within. Think about it this way - you cover it with rust paint, then you notice 1 yr later it's bubbling or starting to show through the paint? I would think that because the air isn't getting to it, it shouldn't rust, but then it pops up AGAIN?
I've been experimenting with different types of greases and what i've found is that the oil & grease may be the best effort to slow the rust.
We'll see though - it's very hard in Canada to find something that will stand up to the constant slush, salt spray here. Conventional grease (lithium soap base) or oil just comes off when the slush freezes to the metal then thaws or falls off...(wet snow being thrown up into the wheel well) I am going to test this crazy mining grease (barium base) I have, that appears to stick like glue.
Rust is a chemical reaction between water oxidizing metal. when salt is present this reaction is sped up like 100 times. this is why i was told never ever buy a car from Canada or a beach town no mater how rare it is. the only way to stop rust 95 % is to cut or grind it out completely. replace the metal or lead the metal and put the rust converter on prior to painting. some work great with paint. Permatex rust treatment. Works like naval jelly but leaves a paintable polymer coating and does not need to be rinsed. Comes in brush-on and spray. I used the brush-on. seems to work OK. i have leaded grind holes in bodies for years and it alway looks flawless. but dont use lead in large holes. get sheet metal. 20 ga about 9 out of 10 times is the best.
also some greases are hydroscopic. meaning they absorb water like brake fluid does
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1991 GXE Resurrected from the dead
1989 SE gutted for parts and 5 speed.
First of all,sorry if my terms and grammar isnt the best,but I'll try.
I felt like this is something I must reply on. You need a little of training to see the whole picture.But you have a great project to start gaining it. There is really no way to learn how to weld but doing it. Of course theory is good to know.
Before you start,make sure there is nothing flammable inside or outside the car. Carpets and stuff need to go if youre going to weld the floor.
What you really want to do is get ALL of the rust out. There is no such option as "hiding it" .That way you dont need to worry in near future.And youll always find more of it,I'll bet ya.You may see just a few spots,but if there really is just few,then I call you lucky.
Remember before you start,that bare steel will rust! So paint the areas youve done when you call it a day,it'll save you from extra work. Trust me.
Get a GOOD gas MIG welder. You save lot of nerves if you buy a truly good one,and also it lasts years and years.I prefer Kemppi welding machines,and I owe Kempomat 2100. It is maybe a little too big for thin steel,but it can handle it. Second,you need lots and lots of time. Welding thin steel is maybe the hardest welding operation if you have no experience. Many think that it is easy and fast operation,but it is not. Even little spots can take hours of work. Try to take as much of rust out without replacing metal as you can,with a "sand blower" or ?grinding? machine(I have no idea what it is called in English).. For the tight corners,use blower.
If you need to replace spots,look for the easiest way. I mean,usually bigger part are easier. Remember to replace as much as you need at once,so you dont have to weld spot next to spot next to spot.Although,sometimes you need use your imagination to get the new piece of metal look like the old one especially if you dont have good equipment for modifying steel. Find the easiest place and position to weld,it will save your head from exploding once again.
This is so big area that I cant just tell you everything. But lets sum the few facts:
1.Dont hide rust,it'll get worse.Get rid of it.All of it.
2.Dont set your car on fire.
3.It is not a quick job.Welding takes time and nerves.
4.Gas welding machine.
5.Bigger areas at once=easier.
6.Bare steel rusts. Cover it with paint or something.
7.Remember to use mask!!! This is a point I really cant underline too much. I've welded many times without one,and you really know it when going to sleep. Try once,and you know what Im talking about. I think its called snow blindness. Also if you decide to try,get ready for looking like a mummy for few days.Your skin will fall off if you weld too long without proper coverage.
Thanks Antti for those tips. I'll take a look at those MIG units, but for me I mainly have access to Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Thermal Arc, & ESAB...I don't see that brand you speak of. For doing basic rust work, can I get away with an economy MIG package. The one I'm looking at is 115V, Current Range: 30-135 A, 88 A Rated Output at 20% Duty Cycle. It's approx. $600.00. It's described as "Single Phase, gas / no gas MIG welder, Step Voltage Adj., Stepless Wire Speed Adjustment....suitable for mild steel and mild alloy steel welding.
Basically, what's a typical lower cost (this MIG stuff isn't cheap - and don't have boat loads of money to spend on something I'll rarely use) setup I could get away with to do the rust work.
If those are your options,I would most likely go with ESAB. If youre going to use it for smaller than ~3mm steel,then you can stick with a "weak power/?single phase?" version. For anything bigger I suggest getting a bigger one.I would maybe choose one from the ESAB MIGmaster series.One of the smaller ones is good for you. Our Kemppi gives out something about 210A at 20% maybe.
The choice you showed is good for basic rustwork,but thats about it. If I were you,I would save money so that I had enough to buy a goog MIG,so it would serve me for the next two decades. But you need to think about whats going to happen in the near future. If you know that youre not going to weld anything thicker steel,then buy that small one. It really is up to you.
you also might find a TIG welder handy to melt some silicon-bronze. it's very useful for filling in areas that do not need a whole piece of tin--but still have a lot of holes. you can just melt the sil-bronze rod with the tig. It's kinda like spackle for metal.
I haven't used that one, but I've used the one by Rustoleum brand called RUST REFORMER. They are probably similar. These things are like primers sort of. You only coat it lightly then let it dry as instructions...then cover with industrial enamel for best protection. You could also try that POR stuff that guys use around here - I haven't tried it yet.
One thing about the rust converter though, the rust area needs to be wire wheeled or sanded down to get the loose crap off, then clean it with paint thinner and let it dry or use a blow gun on it to dry it fast...then coat it. If you just spray over the rust area without prepping it, it won't stick on well.
I just bought some of this to use on the bottom of my rear door...
Has anyone ever heard of this and/or used it? experience?
Yeah Ive used it. It works alright just make sure you get off as much rust as you possibly can. It sprays clear but when it dries it turns black but only in the rust. Its pretty neat.
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96 Nissan Maxima SE 5SPD
Full Warpspeed Exhaust~Short Shifter~Exedy Stage 1~00VI~Black Leather Conversion~Shaved~Blacked Out Lights
If you want to do a long lasting job, I would suggest that you clean the crap sandblasting as much as you can, aluminum oxyde is one of the best media if not the best to remove rust and foremost you can re-use it over and over, just buy a filter and you can re-use the alu/oxyde. Once this is done you will have to take care of the metal sheet to cover hole and replace panel. I have always prefer to use and oxy/acetylene and bronze to solder the metal sheet. A cheap mig will give you a ride for your money and will make you swear. a Tig welder will do a much better job but I see you dont have much experience with welding so the oxy/acety with bronze might be a better option, been there done that. Once the car has been rust clean, you want to seal the metal so the rust process it stop and doesn't start again, and formost will last until you prime/paint the car, so for that I used PPG DX579, this stuff is not given but trust me it work and will remove all contaminent wich is one of the key in car painting preparation. Like someone said use and epoxy base primer, also forget about those product in spray can, if you want to do a nice job do dont cut corner and the result will be great. If you have questions dont hesitate to ask I'd be more than happy to help.
Good luck with the project.
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2004 BMW X5 4.4i
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