Tools, 6 sided vs 12 sided sockets

[killerVQ30DE]

Doing the 5speed swap so finally brought a decent tool set, I got a 1/2 socket drive set.. The sockets that came with it are 12 sided.. but now I keep hearing that 6 sided are best for grip

Are 12sided sockets that bad? Is it only the cheap ones?

Basically I want to hear that they are fine

Tools are from http://www.fullertool.com

[f550maranello2]

well the first time u strip an important bolt and bust up you hands with the 12 sided ones u will learn to never use them again... lol.. i had to learn that the hard way...

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by f550maranello2

well the first time u strip an important bolt and bust up you hands with the 12 sided ones u will learn to never use them again... lol.. i had to learn that the hard way...

thats what I was fearing.. gonna try and take it back tonight I think.. Anyone else

[vipervadim]

sometimes you need the 12-sided but usually the 6-sided is perfect
i do all the work on my car myself and my craftsman set of 6-sided sockets is my most trusted tool (just like my screwdriver)

for large bolts i.e. tranny contrrol arm
6-sided is better because the socket applies pressure to each wall = more surface area = better torque transfer

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by vipervadim

sometimes you need the 12-sided but usually the 6-sided is perfect
i do all the work on my car myself and my craftsman set of 6-sided sockets is my most trusted tool (just like my screwdriver)

for large bolts i.e. tranny contrrol arm
6-sided is better because the socket applies pressure to each wall = more surface area = better torque transfer

Thanks for that!! I might just buy a couple of 12pt sizes for working on the bellhousing if its going to be a tight fit

Just returned my 12pt set.. now have to shop for another kit

What a mission theres not many quality tool suppliers in NZ for a good price..

Found set called PowerBuilt (www.powerbuilttools.com)

But they have Z drive 6 wall socket



154pc Mechanics Tool Set

Ring & Open End Spanners 9mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 16mm
5/16”, 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”, 9/16”, 5/8”, 3/4”
1/4” Dr, 3/8” Dr, 1/2” Dr, Gear to Gear Quick Release Ratchet
Sockets 1/4” Dr (6pt Std) 4mm, 5mm, 5.5mm, 6mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm
5/32”, 3/16”, 7/32”, 1/4”, 9/32”, 5/16”, 11/32”, 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”, 9/16”
Deep (6pt) 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm
3/16”, 7/32”, 1/4”, 9/32”, 5/16”, 11/32”, 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”
3/8” Dr (6pt Std) 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 16mm, 17mm, 18mm, 19mm, 20mm, 21mm, 22mm
3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”, 9/16”, 5/8”, 11/16, 3/4”, 13/16”
Deep (6pt) 9mm, 10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 16mm,
3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”, 9/16”, 5/8”, 11/16”, 3/4”
1/2” Dr (12pt Std) 15mm, 17mm, 18mm, 19mm, 21mm, 22mm, 24mm, 27mm, 30mm, 32mm
1/2”, 9/16”, 5/8”, 11/16”, 3/4”, 13/16”, 7/8”, 15/16”, 1”, 1 1/16”, 1 1/4”
Spark Plug Socket 3/8” Dr x 5/8”
Extensions 1/4” Dr 75mm/3”, 3/8” Dr 75mm/3”
Spinner Handle and Coupler
Bit Holder, Bits
Phillips #1, #2, #3, Slotted 4-5mm, 6-8mm, 8-10mm
Torx T-15, T-20, T-25, Robertson S-1, S-2, S-3
Hex Keys 1.5mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 3.5mm, 4mm, 4.5mm, 5mm, 5.5mm, 6mm,
1/16”, 5/64”, 3/32”, 7/64”, 1/8”, 9/64”, 5/32”, 3/16”, 7/32”, 1/4”
640195

[VQuick]

Yep always use 6-point if possible. 12-point are only handy if you're in a very tight place where you have almost no room to move a socket wrench or breaker bar. That's their sole purpose, as far as I can tell. 12-point work fine in most situations, but if you really have a tough bolt you want 6-point to avoid stripping the bolt.

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by VQuick

Yep always use 6-point if possible. 12-point are only handy if you're in a very tight place where you have almost no room to move a socket wrench or breaker bar. That's their sole purpose, as far as I can tell. 12-point work fine in most situations, but if you really have a tough bolt you want 6-point to avoid stripping the bolt.

All the tool kits seem to be 12-point, I've looked in my local stores.. and 99.9% are 12-point

[VQuick]

Do you have Sears or Harbor Freight in New Zealand? HF makes great cheap tools, most of which are of decent quality. www.harborfreight.com

[MDeezy]

to Harbor Freight. They have a variety of tools that is scary cheap.

[eng92]

Originally Posted by VQuick

Yep always use 6-point if possible. 12-point are only handy if you're in a very tight place where you have almost no room to move a socket wrench or breaker bar. That's their sole purpose, ...

Actually some bolts have 12 point heads on them. You find them on high strength fasteners where the recommended tightening torque cannot be reliably supported by the standard 6-pt hex head.

The bolts for the connecting rod and main bearing caps in our engines have 12-point heads on them.

[86maxima96]

Originally Posted by MDeezy

to Harbor Freight. They have a variety of tools that is scary cheap.

any waranty? lifetime or other...?

[DanNY]

i would stay away from HF...it's cheap for a reason and you know you get what you pay for.

for the home garage guy, you should be picking up craftsman or husky (home depot). both carry a lifetime warranty and no hassles...(IE they won't ask how u broke it and etc).

inferior sockets tends to break often..(during important times). more prone to rounding off the head of the nut/bolt (lower quality = more product control issues).

[Jeff92se]

I have to agree. I've used cheap/good tools. In the end, getting the decent quality ones saves money/time over the cheapo ones. I recommend getting doubles or triples of the sizes you use often. ie.. 8,10,12,14,17,19,22 mm sizes. These you might get away with getting cheap. Or get good ones used on ebay/pawn shop etc..

Originally Posted by DanNY

i would stay away from HF...it's cheap for a reason and you know you get what you pay for.

for the home garage guy, you should be picking up craftsman or husky (home depot). both carry a lifetime warranty and no hassles...(IE they won't ask how u broke it and etc).

inferior sockets tends to break often..(during important times). more prone to rounding off the head of the nut/bolt (lower quality = more product control issues).

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by Jeff92se

I have to agree. I've used cheap/good tools. In the end, getting the decent quality ones saves money/time over the cheapo ones. I recommend getting doubles or triples of the sizes you use often. ie.. 8,10,12,14,17,19,22 mm sizes. These you might get away with getting cheap. Or get good ones used on ebay/pawn shop etc..

So I can use 12-point sockets safely most of the time? I'm buying these tools mostly to do a 5speed swap.. so is 12 going to round bolts off on the bellhousing?

[DanNY]

Originally Posted by killerVQ30DE

So I can use 12-point sockets safely most of the time? I'm buying these tools mostly to do a 5speed swap.. so is 12 going to round bolts off on the bellhousing?

i have craftsman 6 and 12 point sockets. IMHO it's pretty much the same. i've never turned hard enough for the socket to slip. if it did slip then i didn't set the socket on the nut/bolt correctly.

[konak85]

Originally Posted by DanNY

i would stay away from HF...it's cheap for a reason and you know you get what you pay for.

for the home garage guy, you should be picking up craftsman or husky (home depot). both carry a lifetime warranty and no hassles...(IE they won't ask how u broke it and etc).

inferior sockets tends to break often..(during important times). more prone to rounding off the head of the nut/bolt (lower quality = more product control issues).

sorry my friend, husky tools are total crap. Craftsman or Wiha is what i recommend.

[MDeezy]

Originally Posted by 86maxima96

any waranty? lifetime or other...?

I think that maybe the catch, either no warantee or limited lifetime. check their web site.

www.harborfreight.com

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by MDeezy

I think that maybe the catch, either no warantee or limited lifetime. check their web site.

www.harborfreight.com

The only brands I can seem to find here are:

Powerbuilt (Allied tools) - lifetime
Fuller - lifetime
Sidchrome (Stanley) - lifetime
Snapon (uber expensive) - lifetime

All 12-point sockets

Can't find much else... maybe I have to find a place that supplies the trade...

no husky.. craftman.. habourfreight here

[MrGone]

If you have problems with a 12 point, then you need to buy better sockets.

/thread

[thebear]

Originally Posted by killerVQ30DE

So I can use 12-point sockets safely most of the time? I'm buying these tools mostly to do a 5speed swap.. so is 12 going to round bolts off on the bellhousing?

You will probably never notice the difference unless the bolt/nut has been overtorqued/rusted. Just make sure that you have the entire surface contained within the socket and the axis of the the wrench is in line with the axis of the bolt.

You might wish to start out with a "breaker bar" and the 12pt will be an advantage. Once the rotation starts it is of no consequence what you use to finish temoving the fastener.

Another possibility if you have the clearance and are really worried would be to use a 6pt "Box End" wrench (spanner). You might need to cheat and put a pipe over the end in order to gain the leverage you need as the handles are shorter than those on "BB's" and ratchets.

Another post here suggested duplicating some of the sockets. This can save time as you will not have to remove them from one handle and put them on another (with greasy hands and other inconveniences to deal with).

Don't forget a bucket or pan to drop the fasteners in when you remove them and TURN THE WRENCH IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION

[killerVQ30DE]

Originally Posted by thebear

Don't forget a bucket or pan to drop the fasteners in when you remove them and TURN THE WRENCH IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION

heh, do you mean something cryptic there Counter-clockwise to loosen .. clockwise to tighten

[ThurzNite]

Originally Posted by eng92

Actually some bolts have 12 point heads on them. You find them on high strength fasteners where the recommended tightening torque cannot be reliably supported by the standard 6-pt hex head.

The bolts for the connecting rod and main bearing caps in our engines have 12-point heads on them.

Yeah, I was working on my friend's Prelude and had to stop at the Pressure Plate... 12points. The head looked funny, like star shaped. I went to Kragen and they ordered a socked from Honda... I looked at the socket, and said screw them and bought a 12point socket.

I have a set of Challenger sockets 6points. They're supposedly made in the US, and were dirt cheap. It's all I've needed so far, till the Prelude incident. Later I found out I had a set of snap-on 12points in the back of the tool chest drawer. Dang.

What about the sockets that supposedly grip the middle of the flat side of a bolt/nut? They're advertised as having more torque and less likely to strip (even working on stripped heads)

Jae

[thebear]

Originally Posted by killerVQ30DE

heh, do you mean something cryptic there Counter-clockwise to loosen .. clockwise to tighten

How about "Righty-Tighty", "Lefty-Loosee"?

Another note on construction: Really cheap/bad sockets have much thicker walls and as a result a larger outside diameter. This can be a problem if the space around the bolt head is limited (lug nut holes, for instance). Other problems that can arise and cause stripped bolt heads are due to very loose manufacturing tolerances and oversized bolt head cavities. Therefore the prior 6pt recommendations hold true.

[speed racer]

I'm learning the hard way that for the first time you should always use a 6 point socket or box wrench. I stripped the bolt on the idle pulley twice already and every time I used a 12 point. Worse thing I've done since that 14mm bolt is super soft. Its completely stripped now. The only way to take it off is to torch it and I'm not even sure the shop can do that with the engine in the car.

[Cutler]

6 winz...................