Fluids and LubricantsMotor oil, transmission oil, radiator fluid, power steering fluid, blinker fluid... wait, there is no blinker fluid. Technical discussion and analysis of the different lubricants we use in our cars.
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*12/30/04* Oil Spreadsheet-How do I take a sample? What lab? How to do more research?
After the continued successful brainwashing by the media that if a car goes one mile over 3k on the same oil it is going to die, members Shingles, myself, and Jeff92se decided to start getting our oil analyzed at the end of each oil interval to see if "3k is a waste of money". We’ve had many members ante up as well to help produce more accurate results with a range of driving styles and vehicles to see if our beliefs could be substantiated.
In the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet available in a zipped file in the link at the bottom of this post, just right click on it and save to your disk and extract for your viewing pleasure.
This spreadsheet isn't centered around how an oil is made up, what car it goes in. Rather, this is a real-world spreadsheet that can't be duplicated in a lab or in a R&D department. We have varying degrees of driving conditions, locations, oil use, oil filter selection, etc. that is too cost-prohibitive to undertake on a large scale, despite Consumer Reports' attempt a few years back which did little to show how real oils perform in the real world.
The composition of this spreadsheet:
There are fourteen worksheets now being part of the spreadsheet, broken down as follows:
”Baseline” analyses of different motor oils before use
"Baseline" analyses of different ATF oils before use
"Baseline" analyses of different gear oils before use
Motor oil analyses of 89 to 94 Maximas
Motor oil analyses of 95 to 99 Maximas
Motor oil analyses of 2000+ Maximas
Motor oil analyses of Honda 4-cylinder Vehicles
Motor oil analyses of Honda V6 Vehicles
Motor oil analyses of Subaru Vehicles
Motor oil analyses of other Foreign-nameplate vehicles
Motor oil analyses of other Domestic-nameplate vehicles
ATF analyses for all members’ vehicles
Gear oil analyses for all members’ vehicles
*NEW* Oil filters for Maxima-specific applications
Members are encourages to submit “Baseline” oil analyses of other kinds of oil to see the additive package differences as well as initial TBN values, be they dino name-brand oils (Pennzoil, Castrol GTX, ULX-110) or synthetic name-brand oils such as Amsoil, Mobil 1, Redline, etc.
NOTE: If you run a personal firewall program such as BlackICE or ZoneAlarm, then you may have problems browsing the directory and/or downloading this file. Simply disable/stop your firewall engine and re-try downloading.
If you would like to participate in this spreadsheet, it's suggested that you join this site so that you may be contacted should someone have questions about your particular analysis. Everyone is welcome to participate, whether they drive “God’s gift to automobiles” (the Maxima in many of our members’ eyes), or if you are curious as to how your oil holds up after any interval.
Here are three analysis options that I recommend on where to have your oil analyzed:
Option #1 - Blackstone Laboratories:
They generally have the most comprehensive and detailed analyses available. It is recommended that first-timers especially use this option initially.
Blackstone will analyze any of the following fluids:
Motor Oil
ATF (same as Power Steering Fluid)
Gear Oil (for 5-speeds)
Differential Fluid
E-mail Blackstone Labs for a free sample kit at the following link:
Blackstone also offers discounts when buying 6 or more sample "kits" at a time.
Cost: $20.00 plus postage (usually $1.50 or so via regular mail)
Should I get a TBN performed?
You can pay Blackstone another $10.00 to perform a TBN (Total Base Number) analysis on the oil as well. This will give you another indication as to how long the oil could continue to function normally in your particular engine. This can be useful for those “first-timers” who are getting their oil analyzed for the first time and need an initial baseline of the overall health of their used oil.
For $35.00, you can now request a "Dyson Analysis" package through Blackstone Labs. Terry Dyson, a member of Bobistheoilguy forum, interprets Blackstone's analysis results further to provide more specific comments regarding all values in the Blackstone analysis results. This options is a good idea for those who need an expert opinion to integrate the laboratory results with real world driving results.
Contact member iwannabmw by sending a Private Message for specific pricing info. Based on my being an Amsoil dealer in the past, it should be around $15 for a kit.
Oil Analyzers offers TBN, oxidation, and nitration values in addition to all other Blackstone Lab's values except flashpoint. It is the best value for the money of the three options here, but only vague interpretations/comments of the results are given. I recommend this kit for those on a tight budget and those who don't need a laboratory interpretation of the results and are free to ask for interpretation here from "oil experts" (a term used loosely).
This is not straightforward. The only way I know to reliably take a sample is to get the oil/ATF warm by driving the car around a little bit (this allows all "particles" in the engine to be evenly suspended in the oil). Once the engine temperature cools down and is warm (not blazing hot), then take the oil plug or ATF plug off and allow it to drain for at least 5 seconds before placing the container under the flow of the oil. Is it messy? Yes. Also, it is best to sample when you are actually changing the oil, so you don't have to get yet another container to catch the oil while you're taking a sample and trying to get the oil drain plug back on without draining all the oil out.
Please note the ATF drain plug on 3rd generation Maximas (89 to 94 model years) requires a 1/2" square ratchet to take off. Meanwhile, the ATF of 4th and 5th generation Maximas may be sampled using a 19mm hex drain bolt located on the bottom of the transmission pan, which is a bit simpler. The ˝” square drain bolt on the lower side of the transmission is available on the 4th and 5th gen Maximas as well, but more fluid (and more accurate results) will be obtained using that drain plug on the bottom of the transmission pan.
After taking a sample, it’s time to send in your sample. As you will notice, the package to send it back is a bottle with a top cap that is easy to twist off. Several of our members have actually attempted to have their oil analyzed, only to have their package mysteriously “not arrive”. In my experiences sending these containers at the post office, I can understand why. Several of the postal employees made under-breath comments about what was in the bottle, signaling to me that there was a little too much curiosity over its contents (most speculated it was blood). Therefore, I would recommend placing the sample container in another small box and shipping it to Blackstone. I’m unaware of this method getting containers “lost in the mail”.
Blackstone alludes to such "mail" issues as well, including whether or not oil is a hazardous material (it isn't):
Now, just wait for the results. Based on the results and their recommendations, adjust your drain interval accordingly. The next time you change your oil, send it in again to make sure everything is OK. Then follow their guidelines for a drain interval again, and take future samples for your own peace of mind. Using their recommendations will automatically account for your specific driving habits (towing, really low mileage, high mileage, S/C and other aftermarket modifications installed, etc.).
There is an easier way to sample. Blackstone and others sell a pump that has a thin tube you run down the dipstick opening. You then screw on the sample bottle, push the plunger in a few times, and you're done. This is much, much easier and cleaner than trying to collect a sample from the drains.
There is an easier way to sample. Blackstone and others sell a pump that has a thin tube you run down the dipstick opening. You then screw on the sample bottle, push the plunger in a few times, and you're done. This is much, much easier and cleaner than trying to collect a sample from the drains.
If they do, they don't sell it on their site or anywhere else.
There is an easier way to sample. Blackstone and others sell a pump that has a thin tube you run down the dipstick opening. You then screw on the sample bottle, push the plunger in a few times, and you're done. This is much, much easier and cleaner than trying to collect a sample from the drains.
To me, that isn't as representative of a sample as draining it out of the bottom of the pan and collecting a sample after 7 to 10 seconds of the oil draining when warm.
To me, that isn't as representative of a sample as draining it out of the bottom of the pan and collecting a sample after 7 to 10 seconds of the oil draining when warm.
1) Just call Blackstone and ask. I forget how I figured out that they offer the sample pump, but no kidding, I got one from them. In fact, I used it two days ago to pull a sample.
2) I feel that the sample pump is a superior method compared to draining. First, I follow the same "heat it up first" protocol mentioned above, so my oil is very well mixed too. Second, a clean tube inserted down the dipstick hole is drawing oil from the very same place your sample is coming from -- the crankcase -- and there's zero risk of contamination from dirt around the drain opening. Third, I can easily take "mid-term" samples from above, without hassling with trying to quickly get the plug back into a hot oil flow. Finally, I ensure complete cleanliness of my samples by drawing two or three bottles full and discarding them before drawing up the "keeper." This ensures that the tube did not introduce any crud picked up as it traveled down the dipstick space into the crankcase.
The pump was $25 from Blackstone, and their sample bottles screw right onto it. With two or three pulls on the handle, the bottle is full. I didn't mind paying this, and it's waaaaaaay easier to use than the catch-from-drain method.
After the continued successful brainwashing by the media that if a car goes one mile over 3k on the same oil it is going to die, members Shingles, myself, and Jeff92se decided to start getting our oil analyzed at the end of each oil interval to see if "3k is a waste of money". .....
....
Simply disable/stop your firewall engine and re-try downloading.
Good News Guys! I've been searching high and low through my archives and finally found a copy of this spreadsheet. I'm not sure if it's the latest and greatest, but it's better than nothing :-) Enjoy!
p.s. This is from 12/2004 - Thanks to Mike Bresnahan for the updated one!
I've got a copy of the xls named 123004 Oil Analysis Results.xls from 12/30/2004 but don't have a way to host it. I can e-mail the file if someone wants to host it.
I've got a copy of the xls named 123004 Oil Analysis Results.xls from 12/30/2004 but don't have a way to host it. I can e-mail the file if someone wants to host it.
I believe that's the same one i just found and linked to two posts back
A helpful addition to this sticky might be a brief runthrough on how to interpret the results. Getting the data is one step, but I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing exactly what all the numbers mean.
I am very interested in starting to get my oil analysed and wouldn't mind having a sense of what everything means. Obviously, high levels of certain elements is bad, but what are the thresholds for bad and acceptable?
A helpful addition to this sticky might be a brief runthrough on how to interpret the results. Getting the data is one step, but I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing exactly what all the numbers mean.
I am very interested in starting to get my oil analysed and wouldn't mind having a sense of what everything means. Obviously, high levels of certain elements is bad, but what are the thresholds for bad and acceptable?
Its hard to say what "thresholds" there are. It varies by oil and application. Blackstone lab with Dyson analysis would be your best bet. I've got some oil I need to send in for that. I went about 12,000 miles on Amsoil synthetic...I'm interested to see the results.
Just looked at the spreadsheet. Good stuff! I'm looking to buy a '97 Maxima for my daughter now and will send the first sample off to Blackstone. Thanks!
A helpful addition to this sticky might be a brief runthrough on how to interpret the results. Getting the data is one step, but I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing exactly what all the numbers mean.
I am very interested in starting to get my oil analysed and wouldn't mind having a sense of what everything means. Obviously, high levels of certain elements is bad, but what are the thresholds for bad and acceptable?
Elements are quantified in the oil at part per million levels (PPM). This list shows the most common sources of the elements in a gasoline or diesel engine oil.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper : Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin : Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings
(washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel : Trace element in steel.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon : Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium : Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc : Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Physical properties: Viscosity, flashpoint, % fuel and antifreeze, % water and insolubles are all measured in gasoline and diesel engine oils. If fuel is present in the oil, the viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in the "Should be" line. Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.
STRAIGHT FROM BLACKSTONES WEBSITE
Had to say it like that, dont want people giving me credit for know all that **** when all I know is how to "copy" and "paste" lol
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