Fluids and LubricantsMotor oil, transmission oil, radiator fluid, power steering fluid, blinker fluid... wait, there is no blinker fluid. Technical discussion and analysis of the different lubricants we use in our cars.
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Horse or anyone that is aware, is there some way to buy that ZDDP additive concentrated in a small bottle to just pour it in at the oil change - for new camshaft protection?
I bought the AC Delco EOS that has it, but this could get costly to add it to regular oil every time. I've heard Shell Rotella T has this stuff in the oil still, and may be one of the few remaining oils that has it, but I don't think it's comes in 5W-30, it has some diesel ratings.
My buddy has to use this stuff in his '67 fastback stang with a built 351 cleveland, and he had a very hard time finding the additive locally also. A quick search on E-bay for ZDDP turned up alot
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Horse or anyone that is aware, is there some way to buy that ZDDP additive concentrated in a small bottle to just pour it in at the oil change - for new camshaft protection?
I bought the AC Delco EOS that has it, but this could get costly to add it to regular oil every time. I've heard Shell Rotella T has this stuff in the oil still, and may be one of the few remaining oils that has it, but I don't think it's comes in 5W-30, it has some diesel ratings.
What's the work around?
I would be cautious using Zinc additives.
If you are looking for a motor oil that is heavily fortified with Zinc, try AMSOIL "Premium Protection" 10w-40, Product Code AMO. This oil is specifically recommended for flat tappet, high performance, heavy duty and high mileage applications. In fact a renowned expert on the earlier generation Corvette ZR-1 engine manufactured between 1990-1995 recommends this oil exclusively for the ZR-1 engine because it has flat tappets and most current SM-rated oils typically don't provide the necessary level of protection for this design. AMSOIL AMO has been named in articles in Corvette magazine and is recommended for the old generation ZR-1's for this reason.
If I were inclined to use a diesel oil (which I'm not), I would definitely consider AMSOIL 15w-40 Synthetic Marine and Diesel oil (AME) or the Series 3000 5w-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) over Shell Rotella...the up-front investment might be slightly higher, but I've read field tests where fleet operators are able to extend service intervals by a factor of 3 and reduce wear on their equipment with AMSOIL AME over Rotella. AMSOIL AME and HDD are both SL rated for gasoline applications.
If you want a 30-weight oil that will also offer outstanding winter performance, AMSOIL Signature Series (SSO) 0w-30 contains a very robust additive package that offers superior wear protection without the adverse effect Zinc will have on your emission control systems over time. AMSOIL SSO is SM rated so it will be kinder to your catalyic converter(s) and potentially save/delay a costly repair down the road.
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Last edited by talkinghorse; 10-25-2009 at 01:30 PM.
I use Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in my heavily abused and raced VQ35 4th gen. Got my first oil analysis done a few days ago. Results turned out to be very good. Put 4500miles on that oil, including one full track day (1 hour and 20 minutes of lapping is more abuse than you can possibly imagine on a car, oil temps as high as 275 degrees F) and 3 days at the drag strip, then daily driving for a couple months. This was a junkyard engine (who knows how well it was taken care of or not taken care of) with 70k miles on it when I got it, has probably 90k miles on it now.
__________________ 95 SE - Stock 3.0L w/ USIM - T61/P-trim @ 14.5psi - 93 octane
11.76 @ 121 - 1.82 60' - ET Street DOTs
12.15 @ 123 - 1.95 60' - Nitto DR 3.5L swap with I/Y/E
12.92 @ 104 - 1.69 60' - M&H Slicks
13.60 @ 103 - 2.15 60' - Street tires
I'm sure it performed well for you, but diesel oils contain a more aggressive additive package than typical oils formulated for gasoline engines do. While these diesel oils might provide good protection, they will have an adverse effect on catalytic converters over time...and those are not cheap to replace. There are gasoline engine formulated oils out there that meet SM requirements, provide outstanding wear protection and be less harmful to emission control systems.
Yes I was aware of that, I don't run it in my other maxima which is catted. My 3.5 swap car has no emissions equipment on it whatsoever (neither do any of my friends that run it) - we are lucky up here that we don't have to worry about that stuff.
I wasn't aware that there were gasoline engine oil formulations that provide the same level of protection though, that is good info to know for people who don't have the luxury of not having emissions testing and as you said it's not really that expensive either. Only costs about $10-12 more per oil change it looks like. Nice.
__________________ 95 SE - Stock 3.0L w/ USIM - T61/P-trim @ 14.5psi - 93 octane
11.76 @ 121 - 1.82 60' - ET Street DOTs
12.15 @ 123 - 1.95 60' - Nitto DR 3.5L swap with I/Y/E
12.92 @ 104 - 1.69 60' - M&H Slicks
13.60 @ 103 - 2.15 60' - Street tires
I'm sure it performed well for you, but diesel oils contain a more aggressive additive package than typical oils formulated for gasoline engines do. While these diesel oils might provide good protection, they will have an adverse effect on catalytic converters over time...and those are not cheap to replace. There are gasoline engine formulated oils out there that meet SM requirements, provide outstanding wear protection and be less harmful to emission control systems.
Rotella has reduced the amount of Zinc in their diesel oils to conform to more strict emission regarding diesels. IMHO the amount might reduced to a point where it's not really a concern?
The highest concentration in an additive I've located is called Comp Cams. Maybe after break-in, i'll just add a bit of the bottle on each oil change.
Horse, I've calculated the cost of the Amsoil for oil, although I think it's worth it for the tranny fluid, it's too costly for me for every oil change. My OCI is 6000 KM city driving, so i'm going to stick with Walmart Super Tech 5W-30 (Safety-Kleen), and try and find the zinc in a bottle that I can just add a bit at a time.
Rotella has reduced the amount of Zinc in their diesel oils to conform to more strict emission regarding diesels. IMHO the amount might reduced to a point where it's not really a concern?
I believe you...I just don't know how reduced is reduced. API limited ZDDP levels for SM-rated oils essentially in 10w-30 viscosities and lighter...and it's those viscosities that as you know are most often recommended for modern engines. The higher viscosity oils (such as those typically recommended for diesels) are not bound by the same limits. There's also different formulations for diesel oils...those for ultra-low emission engines produced for model year 2007 and newer (CJ-4), and oil for pre-2007 engines...so one needs to be knowledgeable as to what they're actually buying. Sounds like you're talking about the CJ-4 oil.
People a lot smarter than me design engines, formulate oils and make recommendations for a reason. EPA and/or API must have determined that high amounts of ZDDP in oils shortened the life of emission control systems, which in turn contributes to air pollution. I recently had one of the cats replaced on my I-30 and it was pretty expensive. The shop owner told me that there are lots of cars running around with the service lights on for that reason and people either don't have the money to get the cars fixed or they just won't be bothered. We don't have emissions checks in San Antonio, but in areas where they do the cars won't pass inspection if it fails an emissions check or in some cases if the SES light is on. Everything is a trade-off...if one thinks they really need an oil with higher amounts of zinc, then they might well be setting themselves up for a costly repair down the line. There are PCMOs available that meet API SM requirements and still offer outstanding wear protection through the use of other advanced additives...not convinced a diesel oil, zinc additives, or other high-zinc formulations are necessary for most people driving modern street cars.
Last edited by talkinghorse; 11-06-2009 at 08:09 AM.
In my case, I too was interested in an oil that provided good protection. I broke in my motor with Castrol GTX and a bottle of Comp Cam break-in additive (very high in zinc), it was also recommened to me by the engine builder that did machine work on my block, he also warned me about the cat's but as we know in FL we dont have emissions, so im covered. I have about 4 to 5k miles on the motor and I am still using the Castrol GTX (10w40) + the Comp Cam. I think I am going to stick to this, I haven't done an oil analysis yet though but I dont see why it wouldn't be a good mix
That's what I did, comp cams break-in. I used half a bottle for the initial 20 min flush, then the other half for the first fill. I have an extra bottle of the AC Delco EOS which has the zinc in it, but i've found out that it's a very low amount, pretty useless. Consensus is Comp Cams is one of if not the highest concentration, there is one other that alot of flat tappet customers were using as it was cheaper and it had a really high amount of zinc in it too, I forgot the name but I may use that on every oil change. The bottle was much bigger I recall.
Comp cams on every oil change would be way too costly. The stuff isn't cheap around here at least. How much by the way are you planning on using on each oil change, do you think a 1/4 bottle would be suffice?
I'm going to stick to it too. I want this camshaft and lifters to last. Don't know what killed the last one, but I'm wondering if it was because the zinc was removed from the oil....in what yr I don't know. That cylinder head had a slow death over a yr, but by the end it was rattling like crazy.
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