Automakers Lengthen Intervals Between Oil Changes
05-05-2007, 03:18 PM
#1
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Automakers Lengthen Intervals Between Oil Changes
This was the title of an Associated Press article in my local paper. I will not quote the whole article but only parts, below {and place my comments in these brackets}:
Detroit -- Most major automakers agree: The adage that you should change your car's oil every 3,000 miles is outdated, and even 5,000 miles may be too often. Ford became the latest manufgacturer to extend its oil life guidelines, making public that its is raising the recommended oil change interval {OCI} from 5,000 miles to 7,500 on its newly redesigned 2007 models and all subsequent redesigned or new models. The company, like many other manufacturers, said Tuesday that higher oil quality standards and new engine designs were responsible for the change, which affects vehicles driven under normal conditions. {Another reason not mentioned is the US government's mandate of ultra-low sulfur gasoline last year for most of the USA, except areas in the Rocky Mountains. Some of the sulfur in gasoline ends up in the motor oil, where it combines with moisture (water) to form sulfuric acid. Less sulfur = less acid.}
"The oils have advanced a lot since the days when 3,000 miles were the typical OCI," said a senior engineer for the American Petroluem Institute, an industry organization that sets quality standards. "They're certainly more robust than oils of 10, 15 years ago." These days, motor oils start with a higher-quality base oil {or even synthetic base oil} than in the past, and they have more antioxidants that make the lubricating properties last longer and other additives that keep deposits from forming on engines, he said.
Ford's supervisor of fuel libricants said the company conducted numerous fleet and lab tests with newer oils before it raised the interval. . .
Oil can lose its lubricating properties if it runs at too low or too high of a temperature. GM's director of service operations said oil can last 12,000 miles or even more for many dirvers who don't run their verhicles in extreme heat or cold or tow heavy loads. "It really does depend on the individual driver and how they've used the vehicle," he said. . . .
The longer oil life can save customers money. Ford estimates that drivers would save $600 over a 5-year period by going from 5,000 miles to 7,500 between oil changes. "From an environmental perspective we can save an enormous amount of oil," he said. "There's no point in wasting precious oil changing it prematurely and we don't have to dispose of so much waste oil, either."
When to change oil is not without controversy, though. Toyota reduced it OCI from 7,500 miles to 5,000 in 2004 in part because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly. Toyota also had an oil sludge buildup problem on less than 1% of its 1997-2002 model year vehicles. {I believe this engine problem was the real reason for Toyota's change. They designed engines that were not up to normal Toyota quality and to protect their A-S-S used motor oil sludge as the excuse. I'm told that Toyota has corrected the design problems in engines built after 2002.}
Nissan recommends changing oil in its Nissan and Infiniti vehicles every 7,500 miles or 6 months -- unless the vehicle is used mainly for towing, trips of 5 miles or less in normal temperatures, 10 miles or less in freezing temperatures, stop-and-go driving in hot weather, or low-speed driving for long distances -- in which case the oil should be changed every 3,750 miles or 3 months, a spokeswoman said.
For some engineers and mechanics, 5,000 miles is too long to wait. Drivers must take the weather and how much freeway driving they do into account before deciding when to change their oil, said the owner of a an auto repair garage in Sarasota, FL {who wants your oil-change business}. Freeway driving is less harmful to oil than driving in the city, but in Sarasota the heat places nearly all cars under severe driving conditions that warrant more frequent changes, he said. {IMHO, until the air temperature gets to over about 100 degrees F, you should not consider driving in hot weather to be severe driving conditions.} . . .
{The marketing manager of a motor oil additive company says} "There's not what I consider a right answer {on OCI}. However, if you go with the owner's manual recommendation you should in gereral not have any problems." {And the safest bet is to send a sample of your drained motor oil -- from the middle of the draw -- to a lab for complete analysis. This way you will know for certain if you are wasting resources, changing at about the correct time, or pushing the oil past its useful life.}
Detroit -- Most major automakers agree: The adage that you should change your car's oil every 3,000 miles is outdated, and even 5,000 miles may be too often. Ford became the latest manufgacturer to extend its oil life guidelines, making public that its is raising the recommended oil change interval {OCI} from 5,000 miles to 7,500 on its newly redesigned 2007 models and all subsequent redesigned or new models. The company, like many other manufacturers, said Tuesday that higher oil quality standards and new engine designs were responsible for the change, which affects vehicles driven under normal conditions. {Another reason not mentioned is the US government's mandate of ultra-low sulfur gasoline last year for most of the USA, except areas in the Rocky Mountains. Some of the sulfur in gasoline ends up in the motor oil, where it combines with moisture (water) to form sulfuric acid. Less sulfur = less acid.}
"The oils have advanced a lot since the days when 3,000 miles were the typical OCI," said a senior engineer for the American Petroluem Institute, an industry organization that sets quality standards. "They're certainly more robust than oils of 10, 15 years ago." These days, motor oils start with a higher-quality base oil {or even synthetic base oil} than in the past, and they have more antioxidants that make the lubricating properties last longer and other additives that keep deposits from forming on engines, he said.
Ford's supervisor of fuel libricants said the company conducted numerous fleet and lab tests with newer oils before it raised the interval. . .
Oil can lose its lubricating properties if it runs at too low or too high of a temperature. GM's director of service operations said oil can last 12,000 miles or even more for many dirvers who don't run their verhicles in extreme heat or cold or tow heavy loads. "It really does depend on the individual driver and how they've used the vehicle," he said. . . .
The longer oil life can save customers money. Ford estimates that drivers would save $600 over a 5-year period by going from 5,000 miles to 7,500 between oil changes. "From an environmental perspective we can save an enormous amount of oil," he said. "There's no point in wasting precious oil changing it prematurely and we don't have to dispose of so much waste oil, either."
When to change oil is not without controversy, though. Toyota reduced it OCI from 7,500 miles to 5,000 in 2004 in part because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly. Toyota also had an oil sludge buildup problem on less than 1% of its 1997-2002 model year vehicles. {I believe this engine problem was the real reason for Toyota's change. They designed engines that were not up to normal Toyota quality and to protect their A-S-S used motor oil sludge as the excuse. I'm told that Toyota has corrected the design problems in engines built after 2002.}
Nissan recommends changing oil in its Nissan and Infiniti vehicles every 7,500 miles or 6 months -- unless the vehicle is used mainly for towing, trips of 5 miles or less in normal temperatures, 10 miles or less in freezing temperatures, stop-and-go driving in hot weather, or low-speed driving for long distances -- in which case the oil should be changed every 3,750 miles or 3 months, a spokeswoman said.
For some engineers and mechanics, 5,000 miles is too long to wait. Drivers must take the weather and how much freeway driving they do into account before deciding when to change their oil, said the owner of a an auto repair garage in Sarasota, FL {who wants your oil-change business}. Freeway driving is less harmful to oil than driving in the city, but in Sarasota the heat places nearly all cars under severe driving conditions that warrant more frequent changes, he said. {IMHO, until the air temperature gets to over about 100 degrees F, you should not consider driving in hot weather to be severe driving conditions.} . . .
{The marketing manager of a motor oil additive company says} "There's not what I consider a right answer {on OCI}. However, if you go with the owner's manual recommendation you should in gereral not have any problems." {And the safest bet is to send a sample of your drained motor oil -- from the middle of the draw -- to a lab for complete analysis. This way you will know for certain if you are wasting resources, changing at about the correct time, or pushing the oil past its useful life.}
05-05-2007, 05:04 PM
#2
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I have been doing 5K OCI on dino for a very very long time and have had multiple vehicles, come and go by. The one thing I have religiously done with all my previous vehicles was to do UOA every 40-50K miles to be sure the 5K OCI was fine.
I feel this recommendation is a bit too late.
I feel this recommendation is a bit too late.
05-06-2007, 04:00 AM
#4
i dont care if they say 5 or 7.5 K miles to change your oil...i have been changing it every 3K religiously and even since our maximas usually consume some oil, im afraid that by 7.5K that all the oil will be gone and the motor will be running dry 
05-06-2007, 04:46 AM
#5
Originally Posted by Y2k2maxse
i dont care if they say 5 or 7.5 K miles to change your oil...i have been changing it every 3K religiously and even since our maximas usually consume some oil, im afraid that by 7.5K that all the oil will be gone and the motor will be running dry
05-19-2007, 05:34 PM
#9
Interesting, my fathers 07 ES350 recommends 5000 mile intervals, car holds 6.4 quarts, Im sure it can do 7500 with no problem
Most people I know don't have a clue as to when they need to change their oil, a friend of mine bought a Grand Cherokee Limited V8 and drives 2 miles to work, dealership told him change the oil every 7000 miles, he does stop and go and idling like no one should and his engine is probably shot but he does not have a clue, and he uses regular oil
Most people I know don't have a clue as to when they need to change their oil, a friend of mine bought a Grand Cherokee Limited V8 and drives 2 miles to work, dealership told him change the oil every 7000 miles, he does stop and go and idling like no one should and his engine is probably shot but he does not have a clue, and he uses regular oil
05-20-2007, 06:03 PM
#10
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Driving only 2 miles to work is hard on an engine -- it never has a chance to warm up to operating temperature -- particularly in the cold NY state winters. This should be considered extreme driving conditions and the oil should be chaged more frequently.
Dino motor oil is OK, provided it gets changed when needed. When I was running Dino in my Max, I changed it on the Nissan shortened OCI schedule of every 3,750 miles -- and I have to drive 2 miles just to get out of my sub-division and on the road into town. Your friend should change it at least this frequently.
Dino motor oil is OK, provided it gets changed when needed. When I was running Dino in my Max, I changed it on the Nissan shortened OCI schedule of every 3,750 miles -- and I have to drive 2 miles just to get out of my sub-division and on the road into town. Your friend should change it at least this frequently.
05-21-2007, 02:43 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Here in South Florida I've been using any quality dino 15W-40 oil with 5-6K intervals.
Filters: M1-110 or Old Style quality 9E000 (non-cardboard).
My driving is 15 miles highway to work one way and then back 80%. Got the car with 72K miles, now at 92K and all is still well. I always try to educate friends, etc. who think the Jiffy Lube 3 months/3K miles is gospel and let them know it can be too much= money wasted.
Filters: M1-110 or Old Style quality 9E000 (non-cardboard).
My driving is 15 miles highway to work one way and then back 80%. Got the car with 72K miles, now at 92K and all is still well. I always try to educate friends, etc. who think the Jiffy Lube 3 months/3K miles is gospel and let them know it can be too much= money wasted.
05-21-2007, 04:03 PM
#12
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I question why you would want to use that heavy an oil for a VQ engine.
It wouldn't do wonders for fuel economy.
Given you run a high proportion of highway miles, you should be able to extend your OCI beyond the standard 3,750 miles. I would recommend you send your oil in for a UOA to someone like Blackstone Labs and determine just how suitable 5-6k OCIs are for you. Given the heat, you might be pushing the envelope.
Have you ever considered switching to synthetic oil? It strikes me that you are a prime candidate for it.
TE=A33Black]Here is South Florida I've been using dino quality 15W-40 oil with 5-6K intervals.
Filters: M1-110 or Old Style quality 9E000 (non-cardboard).
My driving is 15 miles highway to work one way and then back 80%. Got the car with 72K miles, now at 92K and all is still well. I always try to educate friends, etc. who think the Jiffy Lube 3 months/3K miles is gospel and let them know it can be too much= money wasted.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't do wonders for fuel economy.
Given you run a high proportion of highway miles, you should be able to extend your OCI beyond the standard 3,750 miles. I would recommend you send your oil in for a UOA to someone like Blackstone Labs and determine just how suitable 5-6k OCIs are for you. Given the heat, you might be pushing the envelope.
Have you ever considered switching to synthetic oil? It strikes me that you are a prime candidate for it.
TE=A33Black]Here is South Florida I've been using dino quality 15W-40 oil with 5-6K intervals.
Filters: M1-110 or Old Style quality 9E000 (non-cardboard).
My driving is 15 miles highway to work one way and then back 80%. Got the car with 72K miles, now at 92K and all is still well. I always try to educate friends, etc. who think the Jiffy Lube 3 months/3K miles is gospel and let them know it can be too much= money wasted.[/QUOTE]
05-21-2007, 07:12 PM
#13
Sunlit Sand Beauty
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
everyone is talking about the oil...but what about the filters???
and what if were drivin an older model such as my 03...im sure nissan will still recommend 3k...though they always tell mee its 3750...but my question is....if i use mobil one synthetic extended life...should i leave the filter on the whole time?? or should i replace it at 3k?
and what if were drivin an older model such as my 03...im sure nissan will still recommend 3k...though they always tell mee its 3750...but my question is....if i use mobil one synthetic extended life...should i leave the filter on the whole time?? or should i replace it at 3k?
05-22-2007, 07:13 AM
#14
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Nissan has never recommended 3K.
How many miles are on your car? I question the need for an extended life oil.
What OCI do you use? There is no need to replace the oil filter at 3K as that is ridiculous. If you were planning something like a 10k OCI, you might want to change the filter at 5K, but I question why one would want to extend Mobil 1 oil that far - Amsoil yes, Mobil 1 no.
How many miles are on your car? I question the need for an extended life oil.
What OCI do you use? There is no need to replace the oil filter at 3K as that is ridiculous. If you were planning something like a 10k OCI, you might want to change the filter at 5K, but I question why one would want to extend Mobil 1 oil that far - Amsoil yes, Mobil 1 no.
Originally Posted by icemanf14d
everyone is talking about the oil...but what about the filters???
and what if were drivin an older model such as my 03...im sure nissan will still recommend 3k...though they always tell mee its 3750...but my question is....if i use mobil one synthetic extended life...should i leave the filter on the whole time?? or should i replace it at 3k?
and what if were drivin an older model such as my 03...im sure nissan will still recommend 3k...though they always tell mee its 3750...but my question is....if i use mobil one synthetic extended life...should i leave the filter on the whole time?? or should i replace it at 3k?
05-22-2007, 10:36 AM
#15
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 77
It's very hot here year round in Southern Florida. Also, the European FSM recommends heavier viscosity oils as opposed to the lighter oils in the USA FSM due to CAFE.
There was a long discussion on why lighter oils are used in the US, check out prior threads. For instance, the Euro FSM does not recommend 5W-30 if the temps are above 59F!! (!!)
With regards to fuel economy, I've not noticed any real drops in MPG. And I use the trip meter/pump gallons to accurately calculate it.
Bob is the Oil Guy discussions on using 15W-40 in cars have also shown it to be a good oil for use in certain car applications and conditions and I think in my particular situation it works well.
I don't want to use synthetic because I don't have short trips, am not in cold weather, and don't do super long intervals. Although 5-6K may be pushing it, but I think the heavier oil help towards the end.
I would use syn if I lived in a cold climate or had a forced induction or wanted to do 7-10K intervals.
Lastly, reading some of the BITOG threads, there have been a couple of folks who used 15W-40 in a VQ in hot climates and the UOA were still good after 6K.
There was a long discussion on why lighter oils are used in the US, check out prior threads. For instance, the Euro FSM does not recommend 5W-30 if the temps are above 59F!! (!!)
With regards to fuel economy, I've not noticed any real drops in MPG. And I use the trip meter/pump gallons to accurately calculate it.
Bob is the Oil Guy discussions on using 15W-40 in cars have also shown it to be a good oil for use in certain car applications and conditions and I think in my particular situation it works well.
I don't want to use synthetic because I don't have short trips, am not in cold weather, and don't do super long intervals. Although 5-6K may be pushing it, but I think the heavier oil help towards the end.
I would use syn if I lived in a cold climate or had a forced induction or wanted to do 7-10K intervals.
Lastly, reading some of the BITOG threads, there have been a couple of folks who used 15W-40 in a VQ in hot climates and the UOA were still good after 6K.
Originally Posted by Bobo
I question why you would want to use that heavy an oil for a VQ engine.
It wouldn't do wonders for fuel economy.
Given you run a high proportion of highway miles, you should be able to extend your OCI beyond the standard 3,750 miles. I would recommend you send your oil in for a UOA to someone like Blackstone Labs and determine just how suitable 5-6k OCIs are for you. Given the heat, you might be pushing the envelope.
Have you ever considered switching to synthetic oil? It strikes me that you are a prime candidate for it.
It wouldn't do wonders for fuel economy.
Given you run a high proportion of highway miles, you should be able to extend your OCI beyond the standard 3,750 miles. I would recommend you send your oil in for a UOA to someone like Blackstone Labs and determine just how suitable 5-6k OCIs are for you. Given the heat, you might be pushing the envelope.
Have you ever considered switching to synthetic oil? It strikes me that you are a prime candidate for it.
05-22-2007, 11:36 AM
#16
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Whatever floats your boat, A33Black. Personally I wouldn't use anything heavier than 10w40.
I use Esso Extra XD3 0w30 which is a full synthetic, PAO, diesel oil suitable for gasoline engines. It is a heavier oil at operating temperature than Mobil 1 and lends itself to longer OCIs and is raved about on BITOG.
I switched to this oil in February 06 and my VQ purrs like a kitten on it, after an AutoRX run. I formerly used Castrol GTX 5w30 dino juice most of the time.
I use Esso Extra XD3 0w30 which is a full synthetic, PAO, diesel oil suitable for gasoline engines. It is a heavier oil at operating temperature than Mobil 1 and lends itself to longer OCIs and is raved about on BITOG.
I switched to this oil in February 06 and my VQ purrs like a kitten on it, after an AutoRX run. I formerly used Castrol GTX 5w30 dino juice most of the time.
05-22-2007, 04:08 PM
#17
Sunlit Sand Beauty
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
my car has 30k miles. im about to do the 30k mile maintenance and well idk what oil to use...ive heard great things about mobil one so i guess ill have to go with mobil 1, and synthetic ive heard is better for your engine so i wanted to try mobil one synthetic...idk whats the best type of oil for where i live...its hot 11 out of 12 months here....
05-22-2007, 05:30 PM
#18
Originally Posted by SilverMax_04
Driving only 2 miles to work is hard on an engine -- it never has a chance to warm up to operating temperature -- particularly in the cold NY state winters. This should be considered extreme driving conditions and the oil should be chaged more frequently.
Dino motor oil is OK, provided it gets changed when needed. When I was running Dino in my Max, I changed it on the Nissan shortened OCI schedule of every 3,750 miles -- and I have to drive 2 miles just to get out of my sub-division and on the road into town. Your friend should change it at least this frequently.
Dino motor oil is OK, provided it gets changed when needed. When I was running Dino in my Max, I changed it on the Nissan shortened OCI schedule of every 3,750 miles -- and I have to drive 2 miles just to get out of my sub-division and on the road into town. Your friend should change it at least this frequently.
Staying on topic, I think it would be really cool to see oil change places, dealerships etc... not only offer to change your oil but send it out and tell you how your oil is actually doing, and you would know the condition of the engine and not just hey I change it every X amount of miles
05-22-2007, 05:52 PM
#19
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Won't happen. The dealers and quick oil change places don't want you to know how good the oil is that they drain from your vehicle after only 3 K miles. They know that if you knew the facts, you would increase your OCI and they would lose business.
05-22-2007, 06:45 PM
#20
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by STARR
I think it would be really cool to see oil change places, dealerships etc... not only offer to change your oil but send it out and tell you how your oil is actually doing, and you would know the condition of the engine and not just hey I change it every X amount of miles
when the oil is hot, just take the dipstick out and blot some oil onto an old business card or standard 3x5 card. let it soak in overnight. the resulting blotter pattern will tell you a lot about the oil.
blotters are not a substitute for spectral chemical analysis of the oil.
blotters will not tell you how well your car is wearing, or if there's fuel or coolant in the oil, etc. but it will give you a sense for how dirty/oxidized the oil is, and if the additives are close to being used up -- and that will tell you if it needs to be changed.
I posted a bunch of oil blotters on here a while back. you might find them with a search. there's also a bunch of examples on bitog.
here's a few examples of bad blotters:
1) jagged outer edge --> low TBN (this one measured 1.6) --> oil change needed...
2) excessive contamination/deposits/sludge -- change oil ASAP....
3) TBN still ok, but excess carbonaceous deposits (dark center) ---> change the oil....
4) here's some NASTY ATF. >100k miles on it. this stuff is WAY past due. >300ppm of wear metal content, and 0.3 insolubles, which is really bad for ATF...
(this ATF is NOT from my car)
05-26-2007, 06:02 PM
#23
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
So basically right now my OCI is 5000 Km (3106 Mi) and at the end of the interval my oil does NOT look black, looks dark-brownish-golden, but not completely black. should i increase the interval to 6000Km (3728 Mi) as the manual suggests ?
the car has almost 215000 Km (133595 Mi) and the engine seems to be in good condition and i think its safe to increase it by such a small amount. the only thing that scares me is the fact that the engine is old and longer OCI may build varnish and sludge.
Also is there a point in switching to synthetic at this point in the game ? the engine is not leaking now but i am scared of making it leak with synthetic. i do look to keep my car untill i can afford something a lot better but that will not be anytime soon.
PS: Oh yeah, and i strictly put castrol GTX 5w-30 into my car only, but im not sure what the filter is called cause i dont change the oil myself. The engine does not appear to be consuming any oil, or none that i can detect by looking at the dipstick.
the car has almost 215000 Km (133595 Mi) and the engine seems to be in good condition and i think its safe to increase it by such a small amount. the only thing that scares me is the fact that the engine is old and longer OCI may build varnish and sludge.
Also is there a point in switching to synthetic at this point in the game ? the engine is not leaking now but i am scared of making it leak with synthetic. i do look to keep my car untill i can afford something a lot better but that will not be anytime soon.
PS: Oh yeah, and i strictly put castrol GTX 5w-30 into my car only, but im not sure what the filter is called cause i dont change the oil myself. The engine does not appear to be consuming any oil, or none that i can detect by looking at the dipstick.
05-26-2007, 11:29 PM
#24
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When I was running dino oil during engine break-in, I changed at 3,750 miles and used GTX. So you should be OK going to the slightly longer OCI.
The problem with changing to synthetic at your mileage is that it has a tendency to remove sludge build-up that now may be preventing a gasket from otherwise leaking. So the synthetic does not cause leaks, it exposes leakes that are currently plugged by sludge. It's your call.
I would be tempted to do the following:
- Have your oil checked by a lab when you change it at 6,000 Km.
- If the lab says this oil still has useful life.
- Increase your OCI to 8,000 Km (about 5 K miles).
- Have this oil checked by a lab to be certain you aren't exceeding the useful life.
This way you can be certain that a higher OCI is not going to cause future problems for your VQ engine.
The problem with changing to synthetic at your mileage is that it has a tendency to remove sludge build-up that now may be preventing a gasket from otherwise leaking. So the synthetic does not cause leaks, it exposes leakes that are currently plugged by sludge. It's your call.
I would be tempted to do the following:
- Have your oil checked by a lab when you change it at 6,000 Km.
- If the lab says this oil still has useful life.
- Increase your OCI to 8,000 Km (about 5 K miles).
- Have this oil checked by a lab to be certain you aren't exceeding the useful life.
This way you can be certain that a higher OCI is not going to cause future problems for your VQ engine.
06-12-2007, 09:50 AM
#25
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First time when I changed the oil on my max myself about two month ago, I could not believe how dark the oil was after only 3k miles. Before that I got my oil change @Mr Tire and they used valvoline oil and filter which I think was a crap. I think the reason quick lube places say "change your oil every 3k miles" is because they use cheap oil and filter which will not protect very good after 3000 miles. From now on, I will never let anyone to do an oil change to my car!
06-12-2007, 01:24 PM
#26
Originally Posted by nick_auto96
First time when I changed the oil on my max myself about two month ago, I could not believe how dark the oil was after only 3k miles. Before that I got my oil change @Mr Tire and they used valvoline oil and filter which I think was a crap. I think the reason quick lube places say "change your oil every 3k miles" is because they use cheap oil and filter which will not protect very good after 3000 miles. From now on, I will never let anyone to do an oil change to my car!
06-12-2007, 03:41 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by JwaxMax99
The "dark" color of your oil does not mean it's bad.
06-12-2007, 07:00 PM
#28
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Location: Pleasanton,CA
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Guys you can easily take dino for 5K miles without any concerns, my UOA has proved it time and again.
Since I haven't used synthetics, I cannot comment but then I hear 3K on synthetics by some folks out here which is an absolute overkill.
Since I haven't used synthetics, I cannot comment but then I hear 3K on synthetics by some folks out here which is an absolute overkill.
06-12-2007, 10:55 PM
#30
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,307
I know that oil can go a lot longer than that between changes. I've seen my dad do the seemingly impossible for over 30 years and still counting. He would check the oil regularly, but he didn't always change it. Depending on how the oil looked, felt, etc. sometimes it would be over a year (>8-10k mi) between changes. That was on conventional oil BTW. Anyway, the interesting thing is that he was such a cheapskate that he only used new oil in our newest car. He would then take the used oil from that car and put it into the next oldest car and so on. By the time oil came out of the last car, it would have had gone through at least 40K miles on it (usually more). But my dad wouldn't throw out the used oil from the oldest car. He would save it in a bucket. If things around the house needed oil (like door hinges or bikes or the lawn mower), my dad would dip from the bucket. Oh, but it gets better! If he knew we were going on a long-distance trip, my dad would put the old oil from the bucket back into the car and "save" the "new" oil. When we'd get back from the trip, he would swap the "new" oil back in again. We've had new cars, old cars, foreign and domestic. We never had any engine die on us. They usually lasted at least into the high 100K mark (usually well into the 200K range) before getting totaled in an accident or having doors/axles literally rust off.
After my dad retired, he really extended his OCI. But it's because he drives mostly highway miles to visit family as we spread out more and more. Like this month, he drove from IL to MA to NY to CA with my mom to go to my cousins' graduations (he hates to fly). His current ride is a base '88 4 cyl AT Camry that he's owned since new. By base, I mean no radio or A/C or power anything. Last time I rode in the car was when he used it to help me move from MI to PA. It was packed full and towing a trailer and a roof rack over the Appalachians and back a couple times. The oil was only changed once after the initial break-in. It was just changed again for the second time in its life this year when my cousin past the break-in period on her new car. When my dad heard about this, he went over to do her oil change and put the used oil from her car into his Camry. BTW, the odometer broke years ago at 170K, so we don't know the real mileage on his car. But it's still going strong. The engine starts every time and still purrs. My dad is even too cheap to spring for filters, so those are still originals. The only things he's changed on it has been the battery, some bulbs, 1 set of wiper blades (shortened and adapted from my mom's minivan's used wipers), and 6 tires. He's never changed any other fluids, brakes, etc.
Given all that compelling first-hand evidence, you would think I extend my OCI. But I don't. Unlike my dad, I do almost 100% city driving and/or short trips, often in stop and go traffic or in gridlock, so I stick to factory recs for severe service. If my situation changes, I'll definitely consider extending my OCI. For right now, my dad thinks I throw away money on my car, since I follow the manual, which he thinks is way overkill. I'm sure he's right, but I prefer to err on the safe side. I have found out though that things like the OEM wiper blades and cabin filters can last for > 5yrs/40k mi. Maybe when my car is a POS, I'll stop caring and cut my maintenance expenses to zero and see how long stuff can really last. But until then, it's only the best for my baby.
After my dad retired, he really extended his OCI. But it's because he drives mostly highway miles to visit family as we spread out more and more. Like this month, he drove from IL to MA to NY to CA with my mom to go to my cousins' graduations (he hates to fly). His current ride is a base '88 4 cyl AT Camry that he's owned since new. By base, I mean no radio or A/C or power anything. Last time I rode in the car was when he used it to help me move from MI to PA. It was packed full and towing a trailer and a roof rack over the Appalachians and back a couple times. The oil was only changed once after the initial break-in. It was just changed again for the second time in its life this year when my cousin past the break-in period on her new car. When my dad heard about this, he went over to do her oil change and put the used oil from her car into his Camry. BTW, the odometer broke years ago at 170K, so we don't know the real mileage on his car. But it's still going strong. The engine starts every time and still purrs. My dad is even too cheap to spring for filters, so those are still originals. The only things he's changed on it has been the battery, some bulbs, 1 set of wiper blades (shortened and adapted from my mom's minivan's used wipers), and 6 tires. He's never changed any other fluids, brakes, etc.
Given all that compelling first-hand evidence, you would think I extend my OCI. But I don't. Unlike my dad, I do almost 100% city driving and/or short trips, often in stop and go traffic or in gridlock, so I stick to factory recs for severe service. If my situation changes, I'll definitely consider extending my OCI. For right now, my dad thinks I throw away money on my car, since I follow the manual, which he thinks is way overkill. I'm sure he's right, but I prefer to err on the safe side. I have found out though that things like the OEM wiper blades and cabin filters can last for > 5yrs/40k mi. Maybe when my car is a POS, I'll stop caring and cut my maintenance expenses to zero and see how long stuff can really last. But until then, it's only the best for my baby.
06-13-2007, 12:06 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Are you referring to me? I've never done that in my life.
I am sure you are aware that I am a BITOG member and am using Esso XD3, PAO, full synthetic, along with OEM oil filters.
I am sure you are aware that I am a BITOG member and am using Esso XD3, PAO, full synthetic, along with OEM oil filters.
Originally Posted by CCS2k1Max
This coming from the guy that replaces the oil filter every other oil change?
06-13-2007, 04:05 PM
#34
Originally Posted by A33Black
Bob is the Oil Guy discussions on using 15W-40 in cars have also shown it to be a good oil for use in certain car applications and conditions and I think in my particular situation it works well.
Have you ever read these?
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_m...1&categoryID=1
"15W50
The ultimate high-temperature protection in Red Line engine oils recommended for street use. Good for engines that regularly run very high oil temperatures. Best for engines that run large clearances such as air-cooled engines or large-displacement, all-out racing engines that see occasional street use. Provides 25% more viscosity in bearings than petroleum 20W-50s. Not recommended for use in cold climates where temperatures are at or below 10°F or -12°C. Not recommended for street use in production engines that see sustained oil temperatures below 225°F (those engines should use Red Line 10W-30 or 10W-40)."
To each his own, and I know it's best to take advice from a manufacturer with a grain of salt. But I personally don't believe the VQ ever gets its oil temperature up high enough during street use to need a 15w-40. Your climate really doesn't get really hot, at least nowhere near the temperatures that places like Phoenix gets.
06-13-2007, 04:09 PM
#35
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by Bobo
I have heard it all now, lol!
Does you dad recycle toilet paper too, bigEL?
Does you dad recycle toilet paper too, bigEL?
Before he learned to e-mail, he used to send me letters using the pre-addressed junk-mail response envelopes with the address scratched out. Sometimes, he would just write on the back or margins of the junk mail that the envelop came with. Sometimes he would just write on the inside and back of the envelop. Even now when he writes e-mails, they're very short and to the point. There's absolutely nothing unnecessary in them. It's as if he's paying by the letter, like they used to do with telegrams. But that's how he is normally. He doesn't say much, but when he does, the entire room listens.
06-13-2007, 06:59 PM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 77
Reasons for using 10W-30 and 15W-40
I'm also basing my decision for using 15W-40 in the Miami summers because I happened to see the European Nissan Factory Service Manuals. In it, they recommend up to 20W-50 for hot climates. Incidentally, they also state no 5W-30 for any temps above 60F.
I was curious why there were different recommendations, Europe vs US. Upon further digging, I found that a lot of manufacturers recommend lighter viscosity oils when the cars are sold in the US to meet the CAFE requirements. If they don't, they could be penalized.
In Europe, a same model will get recommend thicker oils (presumably for more protection) where they do not have anything like CAFE to contend with.
I still feel that for Miami temps, 5K intervals (sometimes 6K), M1-110 filter, and 80% Highway that Dino 10W-30 for winter and Dino 15W-40 for summer does well without sacrificing too much fuel economy.
Miami does get HOT! In the winters, Miami stays much warmer than Phoenix. I've lived in Vegas, and yes, it's hotter, but the humidity here is a killer!
To each his own, and I know it's best to take advice from a manufacturer with a grain of salt. But I personally don't believe the VQ ever gets its oil temperature up high enough during street use to need a 15w-40. Your climate really doesn't get really hot, at least nowhere near the temperatures that places like Phoenix gets.
I was curious why there were different recommendations, Europe vs US. Upon further digging, I found that a lot of manufacturers recommend lighter viscosity oils when the cars are sold in the US to meet the CAFE requirements. If they don't, they could be penalized.
In Europe, a same model will get recommend thicker oils (presumably for more protection) where they do not have anything like CAFE to contend with.
I still feel that for Miami temps, 5K intervals (sometimes 6K), M1-110 filter, and 80% Highway that Dino 10W-30 for winter and Dino 15W-40 for summer does well without sacrificing too much fuel economy.
Miami does get HOT! In the winters, Miami stays much warmer than Phoenix. I've lived in Vegas, and yes, it's hotter, but the humidity here is a killer!
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
To each his own, and I know it's best to take advice from a manufacturer with a grain of salt. But I personally don't believe the VQ ever gets its oil temperature up high enough during street use to need a 15w-40. Your climate really doesn't get really hot, at least nowhere near the temperatures that places like Phoenix gets.
06-13-2007, 09:19 PM
#40
Originally Posted by D-Bo
I know that BMW extended their intervals, around the same time they started offering free maintenance...