SSIM vs. Block off Plate comparison

allblackmax96 · 08-25-2009, 08:02 AM

well im getting ready to head down to the dyno with kevin(krrz350) to do some testing on my new motor(finally). well be running my car as it is right now, with a full SSIM then dialing in the A/F ratio, then spraying it(75 shot). after that we're going to swap on an upper plenum that just has a block off plate installed, get the A/F down, and then spray that. after i saw the other dyno comparisons of this i wanted to see for myself. ill have videos of acouple runs and some run-files posted tonight or tomorrow hopefully.

*grey99max* · 08-25-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allblackmax96

well im getting ready to head down to the dyno with kevin(krrz350) to do some testing on my new motor(finally). well be running my car as it is right now, with a full SSIM then dialing in the A/F ratio, then spraying it(75 shot). after that we're going to swap on an upper plenum that just has a block off plate installed, get the A/F down, and then spray that. after i saw the other dyno comparisons of this i wanted to see for myself. ill have videos of acouple runs and some run-files posted tonight or tomorrow hopefully.

WOW - I'm really interested in whatever you find out. Thanks in advance for doing this.

.

95BLKMAX · 08-25-2009, 08:47 AM

awesome man keep us posted!

jr schultz · 08-25-2009, 03:59 PM

In for results.

Grand_hustle17 · 08-25-2009, 05:29 PM

Subscribed

MaximA StyLeZ · 08-25-2009, 06:04 PM

thanks for the info... subscribed

NiZMo1o1 · 08-25-2009, 07:29 PM

can you do 2 runs without the juice / N/A ? I have my theory but I will see the outcome if possiable.

*t6378tp* · 08-25-2009, 07:43 PM

can't wait to see the results

Grand_hustle17 · 08-25-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiZMo1o1

can you do 2 runs without the juice / N/A ? I have my theory but I will see the outcome if possiable.

i see where u are going with this n i like the idea, but i guess why not do two of both???

NiZMo1o1 · 08-25-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand_hustle17

i see where u are going with this n i like the idea, but i guess why not do two of both???

it will finally end discussion and theorys if he can provided both.

He might as well give one run N/A
The Spray.

Then the time to change the SSIM back to NON SSIM will have the car cooled and hopefully the same temp as the first run.

run N/A non SSIM
run Spray non SSIM

Grand_hustle17 · 08-25-2009, 08:56 PM

isnt it 3 pulls minimum???
1 SSIM
1 with the block plate
1 with the spray and whichever one made the more power

allblackmax96 · 08-25-2009, 10:10 PM

well i just got home and while im kinda dissapointed in my actual numbers, the block off plate clearly outshined the full ssim overall. i dont have the runfiles yet but i dynoed with the ssim and no safc tune and got 225whp and 214wtq(SAE). then we tuned it and got nothing,i was so baffled, you will see when i get the run files,the a/f ratio was all messed up, we cleaned it up and got 2 foot pound. i was dissapointed to say the least. then we ran the juice and got 270whp and 280wtq(im pretty sure,those numbers might be off alittle). then we swapped the upper plenum to just a block off plate, instant 12wtq, the HP didnt change,even when we cleaned up the a/f again. we ran the nitrous on the block off plate and saw about 5wtg and like 1-2whp (these numbers are off the top of my head so bare with me til i get the runfiles).

im not really sure why the numbers are so low,and why the a/f corrections didn't do much of anything. i know maximorpheus gained like 20 foot pounds from an safc tune,and hes got 248whp. i drove the car for awhile and it feels much better to drive around.you can clearly see the block off plate shows better numbers all the way up to 6000 and up, thats the only place where the ssim benefited. it makes sense, with the shelf still in the runners are longer and smaller in diameter so they help the low end out,while running out of breath way up top.while the ssim is so hollow and open that you really benefit from the hollow air chamber when you rev it to 6000 and on. the car ran really lean from about 2500-4000 and started running really rich after 5500,we got the a/f to about 13 to 1.

im going to run the block off plate setup from now on. but i need to figure out why my numbers where so low?? anybody got any suggestions, im running an berk intake,block off plate,1 step colder coppers,obx headers,test pipe,cattman catback, safc tuned to 13. zex wet 75shot, bipassed knock sensor.

2 weeks ago kevin dynoed an 00VIed 4th gen with full exhaust and it only made 169whp. and the vias was functioning. im really not sure whats going on, is it possible that the dyno is out of calibration? im really stumped,if those are my numbers ill be disapointed to say the least. ill post up the runfiles and such when i get em.

allblackmax96 · 08-25-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiZMo1o1

Then the time to change the SSIM back to NON SSIM will have the car cooled and hopefully the same temp as the first run.

we had the different plenum on and running in less than 10 minutes,but mine is so modified it comes off that quickly. so it really didnt cool down.

tookrzy4u192 · 08-25-2009, 10:18 PM

was this on a mustang dyno?

PulsarGTS · 08-25-2009, 10:22 PM

Informative thread, but I am far to lazy to replace my SSIM with a regular one.

allblackmax96 · 08-25-2009, 10:26 PM

nope it is a dyno jet.i dynoed with my old oil burning motor on the same dyno a year ago and dynoed 210whp 200wtq. and that was with stock manifolds.

*nismomaxct* · 08-26-2009, 07:09 AM

What did you dyno the last time you dynoed? Was it not something like 270whp and 290ishwtq? If I am not mistaken that was before headers as well. I am assuming this was at Performace. Just trying to get all the facts, but it seems really, really low. I would have thought you would have dynoed over 300whp. We'll see what I dyno there today and maybe it is dynoing low.

jr schultz · 08-26-2009, 12:00 PM

I'm looking forward to the actual numbers. At least it shows the benefits of the block off plate verses ssim. I have a ZEX wet kit as well, and I heard they rate there kits at the flywheel. If you sprayed a 75 shot and got about 45 to 50 whp that confirms it.

**nismology** · 08-26-2009, 12:12 PM

Right in line with what I expected. Most people will not benefit from an SSIM. I will continue to advocate a 350Z IM w/ non-revup plenum as a superior alternative as it matches the SSIM's performance up top without the midrange losses.

Phantom-V · 08-26-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismology

Right in line with what I expected. Most people will not benefit from an SSIM. I will continue to advocate a 350Z IM w/ non-revup plenum as a superior alternative as it matches the SSIM's performance up top without the midrange losses.

I put on the SSIM/NWP block plate on mine along with the a Fidanza flywheel to compensate for to much torque the flywheel would give me. But i deff feel it on top end. In order to get real gains out of the SSIM you need to get your car tuned.

With the 350Z, dont you have to change a lot under your hood? like cut somethings or something? my friend has it and he's trying to get rid of his.

*ajcool2* · 08-26-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom-V

I put on the SSIM/NWP block plate on mine along with the a Fidanza flywheel to compensate for to much torque the flywheel would give me. But i deff feel it on top end. In order to get real gains out of the SSIM you need to get your car tuned.

With the 350Z, dont you have to change a lot under your hood? like cut somethings or something? my friend has it and he's trying to get rid of his.

Im pretty sure you only have to cut off the neck of the Upper plenum and weld and weld some type of an adapter so the TB will bolt up.

Phantom-V · 08-26-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajcool2

Im pretty sure you only have to cut off the neck of the Upper plenum and weld and weld some type of an adapter so the TB will bolt up.

sounds like a lot of work rather than just hooking up another manifold or a gutted one. Its cheaper to gut it out also and place a block off plate on there. All you need to do is get a Tune.

Grand_hustle17 · 08-26-2009, 08:16 PM

good info here, but before we jump to conclusion shouldnt we let the OP get his problems fixed seeing that there is some problem for the really low numbers??? u may never know, whatever the problem is could either be affecting the SSIM mod or the block plate mod, just saying... OP has similar mods to datdude20 and he seemed to have gained with the SSIM

allblackmax96 · 08-26-2009, 10:24 PM

still dont have the runfiles yet, and im still pretty puzzled on why my power is so low,the car feels much better to drive,then more i drive it then better it feels,ive come up with a few ideas that prob arent it, the car was very hot when we ran it,but i cant see my numbers being that low from heat. also when we ran the nitrous,we saw a/f as low as 11:1,but then went lean up top....after looking at some safc charts from another car(maximorpheus's), my car was running considerably richer than his,we had to add more fuel down low and take away alot more up top...any ideas,ive been driving myself nuts trying to figure out this issue.

*Stormzusmc* · 08-26-2009, 10:30 PM

what gear did you run with

**nismology** · 08-27-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand_hustle17

good info here, but before we jump to conclusion shouldnt we let the OP get his problems fixed seeing that there is some problem for the really low numbers??? u may never know, whatever the problem is could either be affecting the SSIM mod or the block plate mod, just saying... OP has similar mods to datdude20 and he seemed to have gained with the SSIM

The absolute numbers don't matter. The delta between the block-off plate mod and SSIM is what's important here.

**nismology** · 08-27-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom-V

sounds like a lot of work rather than just hooking up another manifold or a gutted one. Its cheaper to gut it out also and place a block off plate on there. All you need to do is get a Tune.

Sure it's easier to just gut the VI but losing power everywhere before 6000 RPM might not be so appealing to most people.

PulsarGTS · 08-27-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nismology

Sure it's easier to just gut the VI but losing power everywhere before 6000 RPM might not be so appealing to most people.

You also can't forget the importance of supporting mods. SSIM by its self its self is ok, SSIM with a portmatched lower IM makes a big diff in TQ delivery. Tuning IS still need however. I ended up playing with the lenght of the intake piping which DOES make a difference. That said if I could do it all over, just a block off plate would do. Cheaper too...

Phantom-V · 08-27-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarGTS

You also can't forget the importance of supporting mods. SSIM by its self its self is ok, SSIM with a portmatched lower IM makes a big diff in TQ delivery. Tuning IS still need however. I ended up playing with the lenght of the intake piping which DOES make a difference. That said if I could do it all over, just a block off plate would do. Cheaper too...

i agree...the smoother the air can travel and faster...the better your ability is to produce more HP/Wtq. Tuning included will give you a big difference.

I hope we can find out what is going on in this case though...those numbers are wrong.

**nismology** · 08-27-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarGTS

You also can't forget the importance of supporting mods. SSIM by its self its self is ok, SSIM with a portmatched lower IM makes a big diff in TQ delivery. Tuning IS still need however. I ended up playing with the lenght of the intake piping which DOES make a difference. That said if I could do it all over, just a block off plate would do. Cheaper too...

Well what if you port-matched the lower manifold, tuned, and messed with the intake piping an equal amount but used a block-off plate? See where I'm going with this?

allblackmax96 · 08-27-2009, 02:45 PM

is it possible the dyno is outa calibration??if not,i really have no clue why my numbers are so low...unless because the motor is so new its not fully broken in yet?? it has roughly 10k on it,give or take 1-3k. once i get my runfiles it might be more obvious why the numbers are low.

my ssim was port matched and unless i get an extended rev limiter,i wont go back,driving around daily is much more fun now.

and btw, the smoother the runners,the less torque you'll have,but you will have better top end horsepower.

Grand_hustle17 · 08-27-2009, 06:09 PM

IDk if the OP is gonna ever go back to the dyno, but i'd say just get a quick diagnostic check on ur car, u just never know... even with me running the times in my sig, my cats were going bad and the car wasnt running right but to me all seems good by the times, get the car 100% if u can

wyche89 · 08-27-2009, 06:11 PM

I have a question. I see that the block off plate makes more HP than the SSIM. But, has anyone dynoed with the SSIM AND the block off plate and made comparisons with only the block off plate? Maybe the block off plate as a supporting mod would help the SSIM make more power

Grand_hustle17 · 08-27-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyche89

I have a question. I see that the block off plate makes more HP than the SSIM. But, has anyone dynoed with the SSIM AND the block off plate and made comparisons with only the block off plate? Maybe the block off plate as a supporting mod would help the SSIM make more power

Hmm what an excellent point

**nismology** · 08-27-2009, 06:58 PM

I didn't know people gutted their manifolds and left the butterfly valve in...

*t6378tp* · 08-27-2009, 07:54 PM

this thread is going downhill fast

it does not matter if the dyno was off cause your not comparing dyno runs from different sessions they are from the same car, from the same day, from the same dyno

all the dyno is just showing the difference between the two intakes does not matter if the #'s are high or low the difference will basicly be the same

also as for the port match of the runners, remember you can open the runners too much and lose power cause the motor either does not have enough stroke or cam duration to suck the air in

and as for fwhp, the ssim makes more peak hp and the vias delete makes more avg hp

*t6378tp* · 08-27-2009, 07:55 PM

btw did you do a with and without ssim dyno pass on nitrous

Grand_hustle17 · 08-27-2009, 08:03 PM

is it impossible???

Grand_hustle17 · 08-27-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t6378tp

this thread is going downhill fast

it does not matter if the dyno was off cause your not comparing dyno runs from different sessions they are from the same car, from the same day, from the same dyno

all the dyno is just showing the difference between the two intakes does not matter if the #'s are high or low the difference will basicly be the same

also as for the port match of the runners, remember you can open the runners too much and lose power cause the motor either does not have enough stroke or cam duration to suck the air in

and as for fwhp, the ssim makes more peak hp and the vias delete makes more avg hp

well just to explain why i was saying to get the car right is the fact that whatever causes the cars overall performance to drop like that could have more of a toll on the SSIM than it does the block plate (i dont really care for the numbers either we all know his ball park numbers), most unlikely but not impossible hence the reason i didnt want to jump to conclusion

*t6378tp* · 08-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand_hustle17

well just to explain why i was saying to get the car right is the fact that whatever causes the cars overall performance to drop like that could have more of a toll on the SSIM than it does the block plate (i dont really care for the numbers either we all know his ball park numbers), most unlikely but not impossible hence the reason i didnt want to jump to conclusion

the only thing I can think of is if his intake or air filter does not flow enough air for the ssim at high rpms but from looking at his mod I doubt it

I wonder which intake did he dyno 1st, heak soak maybe remember he did say the runs were within 10mins of each other and nitrous will heat things up pretty fast