Dyno Discussion and SlipsDiscussion and a moderated "Dyno Slips" sub-forum to allow for posting of dyno slips.
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I just got back from Revline in K.C. MO. where I did four dyno pulls on their dynojet. Conditions there were 84*F, 29.48 in-Hg pressure, and 17% humidity - and SAE correction was 1.01.
I made one N/A pull as a baseline(#1), the next was with a 50-shot spray to fuel-cut(#2), then a combined 50-shot plus 50-shot pull for the third one(#3), then a 50-shot plus 75-shot pull for the last one(#4). On pulls #3 and #4, the second stage was engaged at 4500 RPM. A/F was consistently 12.3-4:1 across the board - I had the operator drop the A/F section for more detail on this sheet. N/A pull was 13:1
All four pulls are combined on this page. Oh, yeah, open cutout...
Not too bad - a maximum of 355.26 WHP and 332.8 ft-lb of torque... just another 50-shot away from 400 WHP. I haven't read the plugs yet - it's raining everywhere now - but if the plugs look good, what's another 50-shot for my third stage, right? But no run-files...
I do think it's good that a 50-shot of NX nitrous produces 50 WHP. Really good.. I am using VPRacing Fuel's "Street Blaze 103" magic stuff for high-compression and way too much nitrous.
I don't use cheap gas...... the S.B. 103 is $10.50 a gallon, and the VP Motorsport 109 is considerably more. Cheap insurance IMHO.
Watching the operator make the dyno pulls was educational -and this is a guy who built and races a 10-second turbo Honda - when he made the last pull, he was grinning from ear to ear and shouted, "This car is fast!" ... The Max got a lot of respect in the Honda builders shop today. Probably the fumes from the "GAS" I use, eh?
Get something to get that bad boy, you can prob make like 10-15 more hp if you take full control of the timing with that octane.(advancing and retarding)
__________________
97 Pearl White Max GLE
I has car
Get something to get that bad boy, you can prob make like 10-15 more hp if you take full control of the timing with that octane.(advancing and retarding)
Very good - a UTEC is next, I think.... but advancing is NOT is the list of things to do to a heavy-shot nitrous car. My NA hp is low because I don't advance the ignition - GO BOOM! is what happens.... I add nitrous, not timing.
Go back and look at my torque values - there is monster torque down low now - just where I need it. HP is just calculated from torque, you know... The lower you start spray, the more overall power you have - and the more traction problems you have.
The UTEC does not piggyback to the stock ECU - you set absolute values for ignition advance, injector timing etc - so when your ECU decides to dial in 10 more degrees of timing (I've logged it happening), the UTEC ignores the idiot and does just what you told it to do. Much safer...
Here's photos of a couple of the front plugs after the 355HP pull...
these look good - the tip of the ground strap is just blackened a bit.
Finally spraying the 3.5! about time. where is Jime at, its his turn. Acceptable numbers, so basically in 4th run total of 125hp shot gave you 355whp and 332wtq? I dont know but something tells me theres power still hidden in there somewhere, numbers are good but I think they can be alot higher with 125shot.
Nice
What rpm do you spray the first stage? 3500?
My 3.0 dyno seems backwards compared to most.lol
The MSD controller allowed spray between 3000 and 6300, then we raised the upper cutoff to 6400 for the last two pulls. It's wired with a relay that controls power for the relays that pick the nitrous/fuel solenoid pairs. Probably saved the motor yesterday....
Finally spraying the 3.5! about time. where is Jime at, its his turn. Acceptable numbers, so basically in 4th run total of 125hp shot gave you 355whp and 332wtq? I dont know but something tells me theres power still hidden in there somewhere, numbers are good but I think they can be alot higher with 125shot.
Still terrorizing south Florida, I see !! Actually, the NX shots added power - to the wheels - at almost exactly the same amount for each shot. The shop owner was impressed with that - he commented that Zex would make about 15hp for a 25-shot.
Heck, I'm not even up to spraying what I did with my old 3.0s - that was a combined 150-shot.
This much power does no good unless you hook up, and spraying a 50-shot off a 2800-stall launch gave me some 2.0 60's , but still no real traction. Lots to learn here - but 400 WHP looks doable now...
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!!! I say stick to the 50shot and just add...... 8psi!!!!! you'd break 400 with less heat . j/k lol Impressive #s grey, but I have to agree with the guys here, there is more power to be had wit that big a shot, SOMETHING is bottlenecking the setup.
are you locking the torque converter for these runs?
__________________
Guys I need money to recover from my recent engine build (it wasnt by choice LOL). Im selling a Holset turbo if you are interested
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!!! I say stick to the 50shot and just add...... 8psi!!!!! you'd break 400 with less heat . j/k lol Impressive #s grey, but I have to agree with the guys here, there is more power to be had wit that big a shot, SOMETHING is bottlenecking the setup.
are you locking the torque converter for these runs?
I don't see why anyone expects MORE hp with a dual NX 125-shot added to the base 223 HP ?? That adds up to slightly less than the 355WHP we saw on the dyno.... (348 ) ???? Am I missing something? The dyno pros were quite pleased with the results. - while sitting in the shadow of a 800 hp Civic...
The Edge TC actually locks up by itself around 4K - the nature of a racing TC.. I haven't tried locking it up under computer control - yet. I have built the next Shift_Fast with four stages of control, so I can work the TC in there somewhere. Plus controls for the third stage of spray .
You know I don't understand turbos - they're way too much work for me.
Awesome numbers. Next time I'm out your way I wanna see (read: ride in) this beast.
Know him , do you? Heck, he just built a 600 HP Honda for a girl, but they had problems shifting the car at KCIR, he said. Crazy people - but very nice, very knowledgeable.
I'll be going to KCIR for Grudge nights as soon as I get the Shift_Fast installed and tested. Maybe see you there.... or I live in Topeka - PM if you wanna talk.
I have been waiting a long time for these dyno's. I agree your dyno #'s on the spray looks fine, you sprayed a 125shot and got 125+ fwhp what more can you ask for must people get less.
the only thing that does not add up to me is your n/a #'s thought they would be alittle higher maybe around the 230-240 with the cams, headers and etc but then I remembered your a auto and have alittle more drivetrain
any plans for a a/f cutoff switch
__________________ My Cardomain _ _Maxima runs 13.4@109
Dyno:? whp & ? wtq
Nitrous PB: 13.4@110mph
All Motor PB: 14.0@99mph
3280lb with driver, full trim, rims, spare, jack, fluids, etc & notorized proof
^ yea your right however what i meant is that overall the power seems slightly lower than what is hiding under that hood. For example the n/a times, there has been 3.0's with close to the same numbers. My questions is, how come the torque is not like the usual VQ torque, which is usually alot higher than HP? even with the nitrous the TQ still not higher, is it the cams, or just a 3.5 thing? i remember i gained about 75wtq from just 50shot on my 3.0, how come it dosnt provide the same output with 3.5?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95BLKMAX
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!!! I say stick to the 50shot and just add...... 8psi!!!!! you'd break 400 with less heat . j/k lol Impressive #s grey, but I have to agree with the guys here, there is more power to be had wit that big a shot, SOMETHING is bottlenecking the setup.
are you locking the torque converter for these runs?
The TCM automatically locks the TC in 3rd with OD off for example.
I have been waiting a long time for these dyno's. I agree your dyno #'s on the spray looks fine, you sprayed a 125shot and got 125+ fwhp what more can you ask for must people get less.
the only thing that does not add up to me is your n/a #'s thought they would be alittle higher maybe around the 230-240 with the cams, headers and etc but then I remembered your a auto and have alittle more drivetrain
any plans for a a/f cutoff switch
I had a different plan - the whole engine was set up to breathe - SSIM, special cold-air intake from the front of the hood, 70mm air path from filter through the TB, long-tube headers and 3" collector, 3" cutout, 3" cat and 3" exhaust system through the muffler. The cams were part of it - more lift, more duration. Lots of coil voltage, cut-ground plugs, and dual in-line oil collectors off the PCV. The ECU is stock - just my Tune-by-Tape to clear up that 10.8 A/F. and still no add-ons for tuning tweaks - not for nitrous.
I never did care about NA numbers - my guess before the first dyno was 220hp - pretty close, eh?
So, when I spray, it works as it should. I could have upped the spray another 50-shot yesterday and passed 400 WHP - but I wanted to look over a few things first, so I'm gonna run on the street set for 400+ WHP and then go back for another dyno. An A/F safety switch? maybe...
Look at those torque numbers - with spray, low-end power is HUGE - and the car feels really strong. When I get the Shift_Fast installed and working right, it's off to a drag strip. Daymn, this car pulls hard...
^ yea your right however what i meant is that overall the power seems slightly lower than what is hiding under that hood. For example the n/a times, there has been 3.0's with close to the same numbers. My questions is, how come the torque is not like the usual VQ torque, which is usually alot higher than HP? even with the nitrous the TQ still not higher, is it the cams, or just a 3.5 thing? i remember i gained about 75wtq from just 50shot on my 3.0, how come it dosnt provide the same output with 3.5?
The TCM automatically locks the TC in 3rd with OD off for example.
"how come?" I dunno - shiz happens ?? Look at the graphs - at 4000RPM there is about 80 ft-lbs diff between Pull #1 and Pull #2. Is that what you meant?
I have no interest in what some 3.0s did - heck, there's monster 3.0s that still can eat my lunch - but that's not what I care about now. This is a different motor and different setup, and a different school I'm in.....
For example the n/a times, there has been 3.0's with close to the same numbers. My questions is, how come the torque is not like the usual VQ torque, which is usually alot higher than HP? even with the nitrous the TQ still not higher, is it the cams, or just a 3.5 thing? i remember i gained about 75wtq from just 50shot on my 3.0, how come it dosnt provide the same output with 3.5?
remember as stated above he has cams, gutted intake and 3inch exhuast which take away tq but keeps the engine from choking up on the top in
also nitrous makes less tq the higher up in the rpm you go and he did not spray till around 4300rpms so if he activated the nitrous earlier like around 3000-3500rpms you could add another 50-75wtq easy. but the problem is 400wtq at 3000-3500rpms your starting to reach the point were your putting some stress on a stock bottom end and it also equals NO traction in a fwd car
__________________ My Cardomain _ _Maxima runs 13.4@109
Dyno:? whp & ? wtq
Nitrous PB: 13.4@110mph
All Motor PB: 14.0@99mph
3280lb with driver, full trim, rims, spare, jack, fluids, etc & notorized proof
Know him , do you? Heck, he just built a 600 HP Honda for a girl, but they had problems shifting the car at KCIR, he said. Crazy people - but very nice, very knowledgeable.
I'll be going to KCIR for Grudge nights as soon as I get the Shift_Fast installed and tested. Maybe see you there.... or I live in Topeka - PM if you wanna talk.
Ha yeah, everyone knows Chuong around here, especially on kcsr...he swapped an integra b18 into my buddy's friend's civic. They're a bunch of hooligans, but they do great work.
When's the next grudge night? I got caught by work last time, I was gonna head out there with some guys with a '03 spec-v and a 12 sec Duramax
__________________ : Illuminas : Progress : Muranos : Vibrant FSTB : MEVI : NWP Spacers : Budget SS Y : Full SS catback : : I30 Auto-Dim Mirror & Armrest : Maglite Mod : AE Headlights : Red/Clears : 35% Tint : SE Conversion : : LED'd interior : Sony CDX-GT31W & Speakers : Sony XT-100HD : RF Punch HE2 10" 800w : Kenwood 600w :
Ha yeah, everyone knows Chuong around here, especially on kcsr...he swapped an integra b18 into my buddy's friend's civic. They're a bunch of hooligans, but they do great work.
When's the next grudge night? I got caught by work last time, I was gonna head out there with some guys with a '03 spec-v and a 12 sec Duramax
I like hooligans - even with Hondas ... I occasionally log into KCSR - a good cross section of Kansas City street racing and other stuff !!!
Do you know the guy with the AWD green Eagle Talon that runs in the 11s ?? He has a brother nearly as crazy over turbos as he is...
I don't have the transmission shifter installed yet, so no Grudge night for me until it's installed and tested. Soon - real soon..
I like hooligans - even with Hondas ... I occasionally log into KCSR - a good cross section of Kansas City street racing and other stuff !!!
Do you know the guy with the AWD green Eagle Talon that runs in the 11s ?? He has a brother nearly as crazy over turbos as he is...
I don't have the transmission shifter installed yet, so no Grudge night for me until it's installed and tested. Soon - real soon..
I don't know him, but I've heard of him- and if I'm not mistaken, he FLEW past me the other night on my way home on 435. Can't make out the model of a car too well at night when they're doing 140+
Well whenever it's finished I'll make sure to make it out when you go!
__________________ : Illuminas : Progress : Muranos : Vibrant FSTB : MEVI : NWP Spacers : Budget SS Y : Full SS catback : : I30 Auto-Dim Mirror & Armrest : Maglite Mod : AE Headlights : Red/Clears : 35% Tint : SE Conversion : : LED'd interior : Sony CDX-GT31W & Speakers : Sony XT-100HD : RF Punch HE2 10" 800w : Kenwood 600w :
Nothing useful - I was out last Sunday spray-testing Shift_Fast_3 and blew the guts out of my muffler (DynoMax turbo?), so I ordered a Flowmaster SUV muffler and got it welded on yesterday. Plan on going back out later today and spraying some more - see how the new shifter works....
If automatics have a 25% drivetrain loss (so I heard) then 355WHP is about 470 crank HP,and 400 WHP is about 530 crank HP. Makes me nervous...
Good - the less, the better... of course, for 355 WHP, that's still about 444 crank HP.
Since I'm back from testing Shift_Fast_3 with everything set the same as the last dyno run, with everything performing correctly, I think I'm ready for a little track time.
awesome grey!! i can't wait to see what you run!! i finally got my setup all ready too, so i'm going to hit the track next saturday...weather permiting of course! i'll try and get some video!
when are you going to get to the track??
__________________ Current Mods: 3.5 Swap, EU, Full exhaust
awesome grey!! i can't wait to see what you run!! i finally got my setup all ready too, so i'm going to hit the track next saturday...weather permiting of course! i'll try and get some video!
when are you going to get to the track??
Next available slots for Test-n-Tune are Wed and Fri of this week - at KCIR. The weather channel shows possible rain on Wed and Thur , so I'll be watching the forecasts closely. It's about $80 in gas for the 180-mile tow, plus $53 for race gas plus $45 for one 15lb bottle, plus $20 to get meself in the gate, so I'd rather get there on a dry evening... man, $200 for 1-4 passes in one evening.....
damn people. Round here its $30 to fill up a 10lb bottle . I guess more people spray down here so the shops are in more competition to bring the sprayers to their shops to fill up the bottles lol
__________________
Guys I need money to recover from my recent engine build (it wasnt by choice LOL). Im selling a Holset turbo if you are interested
damn people. Round here its $30 to fill up a 10lb bottle . I guess more people spray down here so the shops are in more competition to bring the sprayers to their shops to fill up the bottles lol
damn people. Round here its $30 to fill up a 10lb bottle . I guess more people spray down here so the shops are in more competition to bring the sprayers to their shops to fill up the bottles lol
holy crap for 30buck I am ready to mail you my bottle for a refill
__________________ My Cardomain _ _Maxima runs 13.4@109
Dyno:? whp & ? wtq
Nitrous PB: 13.4@110mph
All Motor PB: 14.0@99mph
3280lb with driver, full trim, rims, spare, jack, fluids, etc & notorized proof
yikes!! yeah....definitly wait for the dry day! haha
dang...$45 to fill up the 15lb bottle?? it cost me $45 to fill up a 10lb bottle....
OK OK - I have 5lb left in that 15lb bottle. At about $4.50 / lb, it will cost $45.00 to refill it completely. VP Racing unleaded 103 is $10.50 /gal, and I'm stocking up on VP Racing Motorsport 109 tomorrow - we'll see what that stuff costs..
grey....i think i'm going to have to take your advice a find a 15lb bottle....the 10lb just doesn't last long enough....
BY now you've noticed that you can only get about 1/2 of the bottle before you stop spraying liquid N2O - the level drops below the pickup tube and you're just "passing gas" after that. I have one 10lb and three 15lb bottles and they all come up short.
Don't know if you have room, but there are 20 lb bottles made -and sometimes show up on eBay. Expect to pay about $175 delivered on eBay for a 15 lb bottle. This will last a lot longer - typically twice as long -as a 10lb bottle.
. j/k lol Impressive #s grey, but I have to agree with the guys here, there is more power to be had wit that big a shot, SOMETHING is bottlenecking the setup.
Heck, he just built a 600 HP Honda for a girl, but they had problems shifting the car at KCIR, he said. Crazy people - but very nice, very knowledgeable. 
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