Dyno Discussion and SlipsDiscussion and a moderated "Dyno Slips" sub-forum to allow for posting of dyno slips.
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I was asking for NmexMAX's uncorrected numbers as a joke.
I don't know how one can hear if timing has been added or not, but as for the EB, it CANNOT add timing directly. All it can do is lower MAF signal voltage going into the ECU and add timing that way, just like a S/V-AFC.
I don't know how one can hear if timing has been added or not, but as for the EB, it CANNOT add timing directly. All it can do is lower MAF signal voltage going into the ECU and add timing that way, just like a S/V-AFC.
Tis my point all along. With EB/AFC that's a good way to gain power. Through leaning AFR, which, IMO, helps better 'burn' and also, and most importantly, adds timing.
I do remember kevlo911 stating when he added timing via SMT-6, the idle changed.
__________________ 03 SE 4AT 242whp/238wtq
95 SE 4AT 235k Miles
you can hear it when the idle changes... like I stated in an earlier post. he advanced the timing, the idle changed, he retarded the timing the idle changed. I saw it on the tach, and I heard it. pretty simple really. IIRC the last 2 runs on the dyno had the AFR the way he wanted it. the last 2 runs he added timing. if it didn;t work the idle would not have changed. CORRECT?
oh wait a minute I get it. I only have 400 posts, so I am blind and deaf, but someone with 5000 + posts says it can't be done and he is correct because of the 5000+ posts?
I never said the EB couldn't advance timing. Read again. I said it advances timing indirectly like the S/V-AFC, not like the EU. You can't advance timing independent of the MAF voltage, but you CAN retard it. Why else do you think the arrival of the EU to the maxima community was such a big deal? You might be one, but I'm no stranger to the EB or its capabilities and it has nothing to do with my post count. If I had 2 posts I'd be saying the same thing. SR20DEN and/or Nealoc187 (both EB users) will tell you the same thing if you ask them so you can save the attitude.
Please explain how your tuner manipulated the hardware and/or software to be able to do this because it certainly wasn't an option from the factory. Furthermore, how could an EMS possibly advance timing without reading any crank position signals?
I can't explain it. The guy who tuned it is an expert. Not me. Why would he lie to me and say he advanced the timing? I could care less if he did advance it or not. All I know is the results are better then pretty well everyone out there with the same mods. Explain that. I thought I'd let you know that perhaps some of the so called experts on the org may not have all the answers. I know this guy has tuned 100's of cars and mostly with the "blue box" as he called. I told him there was disagreement in here about whether or not timing advance was possible or not. I don't remember his exact words but he said something to the effect that it depended on something looking for the igniter. And I know he could have advanced the timing further, but he was afraid of pinging, because ages ago when I did the baseline the engine was pinging. He remembered that. I didn't tell him it was a newer engine replaced under warranty. If I was running 94 I could have posted better numbers. But I couldn't justify paying the price of 94 octane gas at well over 4 bucks a gallon in Ontario.
We can argue in here until the cows come home. I'll visit with dandymax next week and one of us can eat crow when I post the outcome.
Furthermore, how could an EMS possibly advance timing without reading any crank position signals?
Possibly acceleration and time based... anticipate the next firing based on the previous.. it would be a somewhat coarse method and not as finely controlled as using crank inputs though.
I've been wondering about this for a while now with the EB. He's going to come up here end of next week and I will play with the software and a timing light. Then we'll know for sure, one way or t'other.
I wanted to do that the day I first installed it but couldn't due to missing the cable...
(PS did Matt or Neal ever use a timing light, or just a scanner.. because it won't show up on a scanner...)
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2000. 3L. 5-spd. Black on black. SE. (DD)
1998. 3L. 5-spd. Sterling Mist. SE. (fun car)
1/4 mile stats (all N/A VQ30):
Best 60': 1.73
Best ET & trap: 12.61, 108.98 mph
Click to see the video. More videos also here.
Mods list and dyno here (as of May 9/08).
My EU writeup can be found at VQ Power.
Met up with Knight at the track yesterday, brought my timing light to check out the EB on his 5.5 gen. Turns out it can advance timing. I've actually kind of suspected this for a while going back to a certain conversation I had with Greddy technical people during my whole EU saga thing.
Anyways, I had him add in a bunch of timing while I watched the pulley with the light and it does indeed advance. I mentioned above how I think it works - which is a somewhat coarse method - but it does seem to work. I also added some timing in his WOT areas and we saw his times get better on the next pass down the track (he'll have to supply the numbers, I don't have them).
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2000. 3L. 5-spd. Black on black. SE. (DD)
1998. 3L. 5-spd. Sterling Mist. SE. (fun car)
1/4 mile stats (all N/A VQ30):
Best 60': 1.73
Best ET & trap: 12.61, 108.98 mph
Click to see the video. More videos also here.
Mods list and dyno here (as of May 9/08).
My EU writeup can be found at VQ Power.
I'd love to see these #s to really know how far the EB can advance timing using this theorized course method. Good find! Cant wait for data!
(Because I need to increase my timing about 8-10* [of course depending on how it goes with the other parts coming, but thats what Im aimin for as of right now])
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Guys I need money to recover from my recent engine build (it wasnt by choice LOL). Im selling a Holset turbo if you are interested
Hey guys, FTR, I did 7 runs at the track, first 6 runs were 98.92, 98.89, 96.17, 96.82, 98.04, 98.5 in no particular order because it's early in the morning and I'm too lazy. Not that great but i had a few problems. After Dan added some timing I ran 14.39 @100.19mph Note this was on street tires at 24psi.
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6MT | 06HLSD | I/H/E & FC | Stillen FSTB & RSB | Eibach Pro Kit | Illuminas | Watkins STS | UDP | NWP Spacers | Greddy Blue | ES Bushings
253.50 fwhp
249.75 lb/ft tq
14.3 @ 101mph (street tires, bad wheel bearing and a few spun tranny bearings)
I need wider tires for sure. When I left the shop I was rolling at 20kmh then stomped on it. Tires broke loose so I let up. Got going a bit faster and tried again, still broke loose. Basically I can not put it to the floor in first gear at any point without the tires spinning.
Well if your wondering, I just put Zigen 17x9's wrapped in 255/40/17 on the car and they fit perfectly thats about the biggest your can go without spacers. grips like a mofo too, it was raining hard yesterday and i turned the TCS off and punched it all the car would do is grip the road and take off. and the best part is they weigh less then my original rims. by about 2 or 3 lbs!
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2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Comp G
|3.5" Intake Bpi/R2C|Ram Air|3.4" Pulley|180* T-stat|Headers|Corvette Brakes|SSC Lowering|KYB|LEDs everywhere|GXP parts|SE Parts|
Want a Plug and Play Harness for your Emanage Ult/Blue? CLICK HERE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOHFpro90
Thank you Dave. I love you Dave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigleman
...so i had to get towed out of a ditch last night...
Hey, how much are those air/fuel thingamajiggies that you use to tune after a header install? To the OP: since you got so much WHP from your setup, i'll probably go with the one you have, so how much did you pay for yours if you dont mind me asking? just trying to prepare myself for the cost when i get my 5.5 gen
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2003 6 speed TE
Looks: Superwhite LEDs Inside Smoked Side Markers
Performance: Stillen Intake with Custom MAF-TB Pipe, NWP Phenolic Intake Spacers, NWP Block Off Plate, Cattman Gen 3 Headers, Custom 3" Magnaflow Cat-back Exhaust
Suspension: Tokico Illumina Struts, Ebay FSTB, Progress RSB
To the OP: how much are those air/fuel thingamajiggies? Since you got so much WHP out of yours i'll probably go with the one you did, so how much do they typically run? just trying to prepare myself for the cost when i get my 5.5 gen
His mods, IMO, are all cumulative. The thingamajiggie you’re referring to didn’t do it all on its own. I'm guessing the headers helped along with the larger MAF housing, and of course all the other supporting mods.
__________________ 03 SE 4AT 242whp/238wtq
95 SE 4AT 235k Miles
I don't have the larger MAF housing yet. It's almost ready to install. Just some cosmetic finishing touches to do. 80mm ID aluminum tube 85mm OD, still trying to figure out what to do about an air filter. I don't think anyone makes a 3.375 inlet cone.
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6MT | 06HLSD | I/H/E & FC | Stillen FSTB & RSB | Eibach Pro Kit | Illuminas | Watkins STS | UDP | NWP Spacers | Greddy Blue | ES Bushings
253.50 fwhp
249.75 lb/ft tq
14.3 @ 101mph (street tires, bad wheel bearing and a few spun tranny bearings)
His mods, IMO, are all cumulative. The thingamajiggie you’re referring to didn’t do it all on its own. I'm guessing the headers helped along with the larger MAF housing, and of course all the other supporting mods.
yeah.. i am aware that the thingamajiggie is not responsible for 100% of his power increase.. of course his other mods are responsible for most of it.. i was just wondering how much they run for a good one like his that would give good support to his other mods
Wow, I have the same headers (Gen 3), full cattman cattback, fastcat, intake (injen) and emanage blue ultimate and I only got 230 with 225 lb/tq. I had 216 with just a y pipe and no emanage. Maybe my tune was not done right? Im wondering. Should'nt I have gotten more? Maybe cuz Im auto? What do I know? Nice numbers btw. Im impressed.
230whp even as an auto should be possible w/the headers and no EB I would think but if you don't know what the 'tuner' did, who knows....assuming everything else is working properly....
Wow, I have the same headers (Gen 3), full cattman cattback, fastcat, intake (injen) and emanage blue ultimate and I only got 230 with 225 lb/tq. I had 216 with just a y pipe and no emanage. Maybe my tune was not done right? Im wondering. Should'nt I have gotten more? Maybe cuz Im auto? What do I know? Nice numbers btw. Im impressed.
Emanage Blue Ultimate?
Get rid of that horrid intake. I dynod over 230 with headers and a JWT intake, and I'm auto.
What type of dyno was it on? Do you have the runfiles? What gear did you dyno in? How was the AFR?
Maybe start a thread so we can help figure things out.
__________________ 03 SE 4AT 242whp/238wtq
95 SE 4AT 235k Miles
the only time I tried to advance timing with EB, just out of curiosity, i simply added +5 degrees at idle and the car just started running really rough so i shut it off. i put it back to how it was and never messed with it again.
__________________ 95 SE - Stock 3.0L w/ USIM - T61/P-trim @ 14.5psi - 93 octane
11.76 @ 121 - 1.82 60' - ET Street DOTs
12.15 @ 123 - 1.95 60' - Nitto DR 3.5L swap with I/Y/E
12.92 @ 104 - 1.69 60' - M&H Slicks
13.60 @ 103 - 2.15 60' - Street tires
IIRC the "tune" added about 15 horse to the total and improved gas mileage immensely. (first run was about 230ish)
After showing dandymax the maps it's obvious the tuner isn't a nissan guy, but I still think he did a good job getting it over 250whp. Hopefully I'll get to spend some time with dandymax when my new MAF tube is ready and we can improve upon that.
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6MT | 06HLSD | I/H/E & FC | Stillen FSTB & RSB | Eibach Pro Kit | Illuminas | Watkins STS | UDP | NWP Spacers | Greddy Blue | ES Bushings
253.50 fwhp
249.75 lb/ft tq
14.3 @ 101mph (street tires, bad wheel bearing and a few spun tranny bearings)
Advancing timing at higher RPM will shift your powerband to the LEFT. Thats why you see your timing drops the higher your RPM is, you just need that proper balance.
Anyway, I am not sure if you have this mod, but CAMS can shift your RPM to the RIGHT. I would do that next if I were you. If you really want to go crazy, get upgrade valve springs and retainers, now you can rev maybe up to 7500 RPM with a good set of CAMS and make power.
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2007 Altima 3.5 SE 6MT- 7200 miles - 14.180@100.16MPH *BONE STOCK*
Advancing timing at higher RPM will shift your powerband to the LEFT. Thats why you see your timing drops the higher your RPM is, you just need that proper balance.
Not quite sure I agree with this part. As revs increase, you have less and less time for combustion to occur. This necessitates initiating the combustion process earlier and earlier for a complete (somewhat) burn. You will notice stock timing advance goes up toward redline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng92
We had some nice dry, ice-free roads this weekend, so I had a chance to do a few WOT runs to get some timing and air flow data.
The first graph below compares the WOT ignition timing advance from my stock 2k2 ecu against some 4th gen data I logged last winter.
these are some nice numbers. makes me think I need to pick up a vq35 to swap for my stock vq30.
Is yours a DE-K?
There are people on the board who have hit between 230-245whp on headers/exhaust/intake 3.0DE-K on Emanage Ultimate.
DandyMax ran his old 3.0 off of the EU using stock 3.5 cams, Cattman full exhaust, and extended the rev limiter (among some other things) and hit 270whp.
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2001 A33 AE || KV3 || 5MT || VLSD
SHIFT_sleepy
PM for cheap Infinity, Rockford Fostgate, and Kenwood car audio equipment!
There are people on the board who have hit between 230-245whp on headers/exhaust/intake 3.0DE-K on Emanage Ultimate.
DandyMax ran his old 3.0 off of the EU using stock 3.5 cams, Cattman full exhaust, and extended the rev limiter (among some other things) and hit 270whp.
numbers almost nobody on maxima.org will ever see from a DE-K (best motor nissan ever made for a max)
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SHIFT_LOTS OF OIL
DCMAX current mods- 4th gen intake, 2.5" custom catback, NWP block off plate, 00SE tailight w/overlays, Rewired fog lights, Eyelid, JIC coilovers, FSTB, 3.0 OBX headers, SSIM...
95 White GXE- 15.1 sold... now 14.9 (car next to me in sig)
00 Sterling GXE- 15.0 (ebay intake, exhaust) my next love and beauty (crashed n sold)
02 Sterling GLE- 13.84@100 2.1'
numbers almost nobody on maxima.org will ever see from a DE-K (best motor nissan ever made for a max)
not so sure with some of the stuff flying around and the abundance of 350Z parts(I almost got my hands on Z33 R-tune cams 262/258), I wouldnt be surprised see an NA 3.0 in the 280-290 range, the cams dandy used were not extremely aggressive they are just the basic S1s (260/260 iirc vs stock DEK 224/232) with the kelford 302/292s floating around it will be interesting to see what the 3.0 can really do.
__________________ 96 Black I30t VLSD 5spd A.K.A Big Black(has a bad attitude) Eibach springs//Koni yellows//Koyo OE Radiator//F&RSTB//Black retro'd Cefiros w/E46 Bi-Xenon projectors/ZKW clear lense'd//Budget y-pipe//test pipe//Apexi WS2//WAI//Grounding kit
not so sure with some of the stuff flying around and the abundance of 350Z parts(I almost got my hands on Z33 R-tune cams 262/258), I wouldnt be surprised see an NA 3.0 in the 280-290 range, the cams dandy used were not extremely aggressive they are just the basic S1s (260/260 iirc vs stock DEK 224/232) with the kelford 302/292s floating around it will be interesting to see what the 3.0 can really do.
BlackBirdVQ and DandyMax and a few other members have built hella powerful DE-Ks using E-manage Ultimate/cams.
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2001 A33 AE || KV3 || 5MT || VLSD
SHIFT_sleepy
PM for cheap Infinity, Rockford Fostgate, and Kenwood car audio equipment!
well goodluck to everyones else that makes even close to those numbers, cant wait to see em
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SHIFT_LOTS OF OIL
DCMAX current mods- 4th gen intake, 2.5" custom catback, NWP block off plate, 00SE tailight w/overlays, Rewired fog lights, Eyelid, JIC coilovers, FSTB, 3.0 OBX headers, SSIM...
95 White GXE- 15.1 sold... now 14.9 (car next to me in sig)
00 Sterling GXE- 15.0 (ebay intake, exhaust) my next love and beauty (crashed n sold)
02 Sterling GLE- 13.84@100 2.1'
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Emanage Blue Ultimate? 
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