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Old 02-03-2008, 05:40 PM   #1
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Birchrj- Think twice before buying a car out of state...LONG

Back in May of 2007 I was in the market for a new (used) car. My wife was sick of her 98 Integra, and I wanted something to play around with again. We decided my wife would drive my 5th gen, and I would pick up a 4th gen if I could find a decent one. We set a budget total of $10k, including any mods I wanted to make to the car.

After looking around for about a month, I hadn't found much. All the local cars were either junk, overpriced, or both. Despite my wife's best wishes, I decided to start looking out of state. I have driven all over the US and I'm not afraid of a little travel. My reasoning was, if I could find someone who seemed like an honest seller, and the price was right, I could then go out and check out the car myself before handing over any money. I've been working on Maxima's now for 8 years, I know what to look for right?

I finally found the 98 Maxima that Birchrj was selling in AZ around the end of June of 07. I debated on it a few days, still not finding anything local, so I contacted him. This is the PM I recieved about the car:

"I bought the car as is, with all the upgrades, and do not have any of the stock items. The car has been well maintained, however I do not have all of the receipts. I bought the car 3 months ago from a guy in Salt Lake City, Utah, and drove it the same day to Arizona. Drives like a top. I do not know why the engine was swapped, other than that the guys dad owns a repair shop that deals mainly with Nissan. I have had the wheels off to look at the brakes, and there is still lots of wear left on them. There is one small hole in the back seat. Other than that, the interior is in excellent shape. It is a round hole, and one that is not going to run. There is now a crack in the windshield, thanks to the AZ streets. Other than that, the car really is in excellent condition. As I said, I have driven it a bunch in the three months that I have had it, and it runs flawless. I really do like driving it more than my Lexus, but my wife doesnt like it. She is paranoid about the air dam in front. If the car doesnt sell soon, I am going to list my Lexus and see what goes first. It really is a nice car, and a good price for everything that it has on it."

We had several more PM's, and also spoke on the phone several times. I was assured that nothing he had not already told me was wrong with the car. I explained that I was concerned about traveling that far, only to end up with a lemon of a car. The car is perfect he said, your going to love it.

I will give him credit for being easy to work with, I was not able to fly out for a few weeks, and he held the car for me. Birchrj is no kid, he is in his 40's I believe, after all our messages and talks, I was pretty confident that I was getting what I was paying for. We agreed on a price of $6k, down $200 from his asking price, and I purchased my plane ticket.

Before flying out, my wife and I decided that if I found anything major wrong with the car, that I would just buy a plane ticket home and call the deal off. My plan was to drive to Los Angeles where my folks live, and my Mother and Brother were going to ride back to WA with me, stay for the 4th of July, and then fly back, so they had to purchase plane tickets as well.

I flew into Phoenix and grabbed a taxi. Upon arriving, I began checking out the car. I must note that it was around 110 degree's out, everything was SUPER hot. The car is lowered ALOT. Okay, so I started checking out the car. First thing I noticed was a lot of dust on the engine. Didn't really suspect a whole lot from that, it's the desert. I checked the oil and all the fluid levels, all were fine. Then I started up the car, no CEL, sounded fine. At this point, I stepped out of the car and ran into the first problem, the e-brake was not holding. I pulled the handle up harder and felt something pop...

This should have been my sign to walk away, but I did not, my bad. The e-brake stuck on, and the car would not move. I pulled the carpet out of the trunk to lay on (110 out remember!) and found the return spring missing on the LH rear caliper. No biggie I thought, I can replace that, I don't need an ebrake to drive to WA. I pushed the cable back in by hand, and tried to check out the rest of the bottom of the car for leaks. With the bright sunshine out, and the car so low, I really couldn't see much.

At this point, I decided to take the car for a test drive, and an oil change. I figured I would have a shop take a look for any leaks before I signed the deal. 3 shops later, and I couldn't get anyone to change the oil! I got excuses from 'the car is too low', to 'we can't work on it if it doesn't have an ebrake'. At this time, I still had a several hour drive to LA, and it was around 1pm already. The car SEEMED to be running fine, I hadn't seen anything stand out at me, and the seller seemed like a stand up guy. I decided to sign the paperwork and get on my way, deciding to just have the oil changed in LA the next day, where I know shops would look at it.

Drove the car pretty uneventful to LA. I noticed some shimmy in the steering wheel, and a slight whine from the transmission. I took it in to get the oil changed the next morning when I got my first big slap in the face. One of the workers came out to tell me that there was oil ALL over the bottom of the car. I asked him where, it was coming from, the answer? Everywhere. The car did not seem to lose any oil from the drive, but the news was disturbing. I asked him to check the transmission, and he SAID it was full (more on that later). He also told me most of the suspension bushings were shot.

So here I am, I've already signed the title over in my name, I have two other people who have plane tickets counting on me, and Phoenix is 7 hours away, kinda hard to return the car now, though in hindsight, I REALLY should have. I decided whatever it was I would just have to fix when I got home.

Drive to WA was uneventful. Checked the oil every fuel stop. Clutch felt like it slipped a couple times, but not 100% on that. Made it without breaking down, miracle in hindsight.

Once back in WA, I continued to get parts together for supercharging the car. I figured i would pull the transmission, install my new clutch, and replace whatever seals needed replacing and call it a day, 2-3 day job MAX. After driving for a week, I noticed the transmission whine getting louder, and decided to check it out. Transmission was about 3 quarts low. I don't think it was full like the guy said in LA, I think it was low all along and just got worse, but I guess I'll never know for sure. At this point I also saw all the oil EVERYWHERE, caked onto everything, suspension bushings torn up from the oil contamination. I ordered new bushings, and a new bearing and seal kit for the transmission...




At this point while under the car, I also noticed something much, MUCH worse... lower radiator support corrosion...



So, now the transmission needs to be rebuilt, the lower radiator support needs to be replaced, the engine needs to be pulled to have seals replaced and for the radiator support, the front suspension bushings need to be replaced, and the rear calipers need to be replaced. If only it was that EASY...

The last week of July I pulled the tranny. I found corrosion everywhere, and ALL the bolts I removed were severly over torqued, I think an air gun was used for everything (Big NO NO! ) It actually took me two days to get the tranny out, due to all the overtorqued bolts. I also found at this time that the exhuast was severly corroding, and had siezed on bolts. Oh joy. New exhaust and Cat coverter required now. Once I got the tranny off, I was treated to more carnage:




4-5 hours of washing, scrubbing, brake cleaner, and simple green, and it still wasn't spotless, but it would have to do. I decided to complete the tranny rebuild, and then move on to the rest.

Pardon the fuzzy picture, shows the diff needle bearings, clearly pitted and on there way out...



I did all the work on the transmission myself, including installing a quaife while I was in there. Typical transmission rebuild is $1200. That is $1200 I shouldn't have had to spend. Actual cost, $250 for the bearing/seal set and my free labor. Much thanks goes out to Nealoc for answering all my questions during the rebuild.

Next I pulled the engine. Both lower motor mounts were completely shot. Someone had used a TON of RTV to try and fix a rear main seal leak, instead of just replacing the stupid seal. The lower oil pan was dented to hell, so I had to get a new one of those. Both valve cover gaskets, front and rear main seals. The alternator was so caked up I had to completely pull it apart (watch out for those brushes!!!) to clean it. Spent a couple of days time just cleaning the engine and related parts. Found RTV everywhere it didn't belong. They used RTV to seal the Y-pipe to the stock headers!!! Freakin RTV!!! Proper maintenance procedures where not followed anywhere I could find.

While doing work on the engine, I also started the suspension work. All the bushings on both sides were completely shot, along with the sway bar bushings. Both control arms were badly corroded.

Suspension bushings are not supposed to play 'peekaboo'


I do not wish replacing these bushings on anyone. I don't have a press, so it took me a couple days to cut/burn them all out and get the new ones pressed in. I took my time cleaning up the control arms and repainting them.

I decided to have the front wheel bearings replaced while I had things apart. I got a call a few hours later letting me know the LH hub had been subjected to an air chisel by someone and had mangled it so bad I would need a new one. Gave another $150 of my hard earned money to DaveB to fix someone elses mistake...

I spent the next couple of weekends drilling out all the spotwelds in the lower radiator support. Went through lots and lots of bits. New support was around $160 from DaveB. Next props go to Jeff92SE for welding in the new support. That job is $1000+ any where you take it. Total cost with free labor, $160 + $30 in drill bits.

Once I got the front end all put back together, I cleaned up the corroded coilovers the car came with, replaced the calipers, rotors, pads, re-installed the engine and transmission, and got the front end back on the ground. The coilovers had been assembled incorrectly, with the top bearing in the wrong spot, destroying it and causing wear to the upper components. Smooth move.

I moved on to the rear of the car and the exhaust. The O2 sensors were all rusted into the pipes so bad they had to be trashed. $75 X 3 for those. New Cat coverter was required, $150 from Cattman. Muffler could not be removed, the bolts had disapeared into rust, had to but that off. New exhaust, $450. The b-pipe was not even sucured properley, it was laying on a piece of radiator hose on the chassis support. WTF??!!??

With the exhaust done, I moved onto the rear brakes and suspension. Found a clip missing on the RH rear caliper that holds the parking brake cable, so it wouldn't work at all. Got the calipers/rotors/pads replaced and went to test the parking brake. Nothing. Turns out the cable is all jacked up. Well, after replacing the whole exhaust already, I decided to put that off for now, but that is another $200 or so the cables are going to cost me. All the heat shield bolts under the car are rusted up, and will have to be cut out to get to the cables. Fun stuff huh?

Rear coilovers where just as corroded as the fronts. Spent a few hours cleaning/rebuilding each one. Funny, sqeaks are all gone now, imagine that?


The amount of half assed maintenance done on this car was just ASTOUNDING. I can't believe half the crap I saw, why even bother if your going to do such a piss poor job? I don't think Birchrj did the work, but whoever did should seriously have there arms broken and NEVER be allowed to pick up a wrench again, they have no business working on cars.

I can't even add up the total just getting this car in decent shape has cost me. I have spent thousands, not to mention the potential cost had I not known how to work on cars. I still have to replace the parking brake cable, and there are little bits of rusted this and that which will be replaced over time. I probably have 600+ man hours into working on it. The stereo stopped working a week after I got the car home. I found a blown fuse. Why? There were 5 things wired into the stereo power wire!!! I suprised the car didn't catch fire. An invertor, a LCD screen, the stereo, a CD Changer... Jebus!

Transmission rebuilt $1200 if I hadn't done it myself. $250
Lower radiator support replaced, $1000 if I hadn't done it myself. $160 or so...
Suspension bushings replaced - $300+
New O2 sensors, $225
Engine seals, probably $200+ (front and rear mains are around $50+ each)
New hub $150
New rear calipers $200
New battery $100
Rusted hardware $200+
New oil pan $75
New motor mounts $150
New axle $150
Flywheel resurfaced $50
New clutch $450 - I upgraded, stock would have been $200
New knock sensor $50 (had a code come on later)
Needs new tires, I was told there was plenty of tread left... not! $600
The list could go on, I have replaced so much stuff I can't remember half of it. My bank account does though.

I sent a email to Rod (Birchrj, explaining a lot of the issues. Want a suprise? Never heard a word back from him. Suprise.

Lesson learned, I will never buy a car out of state again, I don't care how it's advertised or who is selling. Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice... not gonna happen. He is lucky he lives so far away, I woulda parked this once POS in his living room for all the trouble it's caused.


The car as it stands now is about 90% where it needs to be. I did a lot of other upgrades along the way, along with a whole lot of preventative maintenance, since the car was CLEARLY not well taken care of.

Tough lesson learned, hopefully someone will read this and not make the same mistake I did.
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....

Last edited by mtrai760; 02-03-2008 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:41 PM   #2
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Lots and lots o' pictures




New oil pan time anyone???
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:41 PM   #3
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Lots of pitting in the bearing race...
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:42 PM   #4
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This is what happens when you don't lube the splines before installing axles...

Why yes, that is a crappy key value clutch...
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:43 PM   #5
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Look what I found sitting on the bottom of the trunk...

That is supposed to be on the LH caliper, little hard for the parking brake to function without it...
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:50 PM   #6
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New lower radiator support installed... Thanks Jeff!!!


And the old one...


Removed...

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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....

Last edited by mtrai760; 02-03-2008 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:52 PM   #7
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Damn dood!

My old 320,000 mile 3rd gen is waay more "perfect" then that thing..

sorry about the deal..
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:37 PM   #8
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At this point it's almost a new car...
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:52 PM   #9
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that sucks man.

i got burned like that last july, cept it was an accord. unlike you tho, back then i didnt know **** about cars.

it was a 97 EX coupe, white, 98k on the engine, auto, power everything, aftermarket wheels, new tires, tints, sunroof, intake/exhaust, kenwood stereo, etc.
i saw it on craigslist and the asking price was $4400. dam it looked good.

4400 for a honda with under 100k? i was sold before i even saw it in person.
i got the vin # from the seller and it came back clean as a whistle. it had 4 owners in 10 years, but no accidents.

i brought my buddy to the deal, who supposedly worked as a mechanic a couple of years back, and he gave it a thumbs up. i drove it around, the tranny was a bit harsh but i attributed to the fact that the tranny mounts and other mounts were dead. when you changed from D to P to R the whole car shook.
everything else worked well tho, all the interior parts, windows, lights, etc. it drove relatively straight and smooth. there were no discernable oil leaks anywhere. the body was in good external shape. the headlights seemed almost new (........) the AC worked great.
i realized i was buying a car with problems, but i figured they would only cost a grand, at most, to fix.
with the buying price + $1000 it was still under bluebook.

so i get done with the test drive and go to talk to the lady about price. i got kind of a weird vibe off of her.
she started telling me this story outta no where how her husband was cheating on her, and she just divorced him. she was selling his car super cheap to "get back at him". she mentioned lots of other strange unneccesary things during the conversation as well, like how he was a criminal and a drug user.....

didnt matter to me tho, i was just nodding, believing that this woman actually was pouring her heart out to me, and i was just facilitating her revenge.
i finally work my way around to talking about price.
now i would call myself a pretty tenacious negotiator. i rarely pay asking price for anything thats not in a store. i aim low and meet in the middle. i been doing it for years.


so i open with talking about the problems with the car and this and that and how the timing belt needs to be replaced, etc. i offer her $3500.
without hesitation, she says "ok". almost 1000 less than her asking price. that should have been a clue right there, but i was stupid and desperate for a car, so i whipped out my wad of 100s and slapped em on the table.

i get the title and drive the 50 miles back home.


the next day after work i drive to my local midas to get it looked at.
i knew the manager there so i had him do a quick once-over.
he comes outside, is about 15 feet from the car, and says immediately "this car has been in an accident"
he began to point out all the blatently obvious **** anyone with any kind of experience with cars would know: the drivers side quarter panel doesnt match up with the hood, the unibody screws behind the drivers side door have been undone, the headlights are brand new, it had been repainted, the honda stickers were missing from under the hood, etc. etc. etc.
so im thinking to myself at this point, "doesnt matter that much, it drives ok"

he puts it on the lift and does a closer inspection.
apparently the whole front end had been crushed in and rewelded on....
yes, you heard me, the entire front end, probably about 1.5 feet from the front bumper, had been welded onto the rest of the car....meaning the original front end was crushed, removed, and a new, homemade one was put on.
you could see the spot welds from one side of the car to the other

thats just the beginning.

he points out how the o2 sensors had been bent sideways to fit the aftermarket exhaust.
the front axle was askew, putting one wheel 2 inches from the panel and one 3 inches...
the check engine lightbulb had been crushed
the spare tire was missing (god im an idiot)
the tranny was failing
and the radiator wasnt even from a honda ???

he calculates about 4000-4500 in parts and labor including the mounts.
he says "go get your money back"

i call this lady the next day (3 days from the deal) and say "i decided i dont want this car, can i get my money back"
she says "ok, come up here tomorrow"
the next day i leave after work to go there. im about 10 minutes from her house, after driving 40, and she calls and says "i actually wired the money to my husband in india, and he is refusing to give it back".
i know shes lying.
i threaten her with lawsuits and the cops and everything but i know i have no legal case. i try to intimidate her, but nothing happened. i was stuck with this mother****ign thing.
i did know where she lived, and she did have a shiney new 06 honda. i was considering the ol oven-cleaner-on/paint-comes-off trick, but decided against it.


so i have a little money left over. i pay Midas $850 to do the timing belt and water pump (yea i know...)


i drive the car for about a month before deciding to sell.
in that month, both windows stopped working. the sunroof was leaking. i was getting about 12 mpg due to the o2 sensors being dead.
the camber was so ****ed i was already wearing the inside of the new tires.
not to mention the rumbling was getting far worse. i guess those mounts were really on their last legs. i would come to a stop light and not be able to see anything clearly out of my rear view cuz it was vibrating so much.

after a couple of weeks of zealously trying to sell this thing, i finally get some family on the hook. i was asking 4, they gave me 3. yea i know theres implied ethical issues about selling a car you know is a POS, but i could live with it.

so i put about 4400 into this thing and sold it for 3. a 1400 dollar loss.
i like to think of it as a stupidity fee.


i vowed never again to trust my car to someone else.

within a few weeks a got a great deal on a 96 GLE and joined the org that night.

if i only knew then what i know now....


here it is.








Last edited by ROCKART; 02-03-2008 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:38 AM   #10
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Thread jack maximus....




Back on point, that sucks Matt... Sounds as bad as that POS I test drove for ya. It's not fun being force to replace that many parts but you've gotten a better setup now than most used cars on the market.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:51 AM   #11
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Thread jack maximus.....


yea didnt mean to jack it per se

meant to sympathize with you and relate a similar story
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:05 PM   #12
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No problem Matt. Glad I could help. You had these so well prepped, it was easy.

Your friend has been on today.

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Old 02-04-2008, 12:32 PM   #13
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Damn!! What a story Matt! That royally sucks.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this Maxima?? Looks like it's been through hell and back.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:47 PM   #14
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I dont know that the lesson should be all about cars out of state. I think your story helps back up the idea of not buying modified cars.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I dont know that the lesson should be all about cars out of state. I think your story helps back up the idea of not buying modified cars.
Well in his case it wasn't that the car wasn't appropriately modified, the problem lies with the repairs and maintenance (or lack thereof) that was done previously.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard View Post
Damn!! What a story Matt! That royally sucks.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this Maxima?? Looks like it's been through hell and back.
160k on the chassis, SUPPOSEDLY 100k on the motor.

I know for a fact that the motor was changed, and that the motor in the car now came from an auto. Compression test was good on the motor.

Mechanic wise, car is NOTHING like it was when I bought it, since basically everything has either been replaced or rebuilt.
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff92se View Post
No problem Matt. Glad I could help. You had these so well prepped, it was easy.

Your friend has been on today.

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I still owe you, that saved me around $1000. I know he was on, none of this should be news to him, I sent him info on most of it months ago, just never heard anything back from him.
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98 SE - Supercharged at 10psi w/the works - VQ35 coming soon...
2k SE - Stock... pretty much
88 RX-7 - Sold
95 240sx KA-T 10psi - sold
3 4th gens.... gone....
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by D-Bo View Post
the problem lies with the repairs and maintenance (or lack thereof) that was done previously.
Quoted for teh troof!!!
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:35 PM   #19
Play with my balls
 
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