Tire decision time, need opinions

*michaelnyden* · 12-23-2007, 11:23 AM

I possibly need (or actually want) a new street tire...

I am possibly getting some forged altima se-r wheels (18lbs/each) 18x8 wheels soon from a local guy for my everyday/street wheels! I am thinking about ditching my 235/40/18 toyo t1r's since I can't stand the horribly soft sidewalls anymore that make my suspension feel like it is half the spring rate it really is (although when I have my r comps on at autox or track, it's fun to see night and day difference) in either case, I don't want to spend too much money since I might be selling my max soon...I had an option for half used 245/40/18 kumho mx's but those are really old technology (albeit a good double duty tire for those times when I don't feel like changing out my tires at an autoX, keep in mind that heat is not so much an issue since I always change out to my ra-1's for road race work, however, I hear they are very soft sidewall as well), now I have a set of hankook rs2 z212 as a option and I am wondering if those will last longer than azenis rt-615's....and I also have a option for a really cheap set (local guy) of used michelin ps2's

what are your opinions on these tires? and if you had to get something better than the toyo t1r, yet can on occasion do double duty and run an autocross here and there on a lazy day where I don't feel like changing out for r comps as well as street mostly, which would you get? I know the z212 would have better grip than the ps2, but am wondering if it would be just as good of a everyday street tire...

if anyone's had experience with both, which has a stiffer sidewall, I know the kooks are not very stiff from what I've read, but anything would be a lot stiffer than t1r's? The ps2 has a 220 treadwear rating, the z212 has a 200...also does anyone know the weight of hankooks? they don't have it on their website, but I do know the ps2's are notoriously lightweight like the t1r's...which is an characteristic I want to keep.

factoring in price, the z212's are new but a guy is letting them go cheap $500/set and the ps2's are $300 since they are local pickup to save on shipping but are at 6-7/32'nds left...which would you get in my position? then I look at the rt-615 which isn't that much more for a new set at edgeracing than the kooks, but the 615's won't be as good in the rain and will heat cycle out early, leaving me with a 3/4 used tire that will suck from my past experience with them

so I guess the ultimate question becomes what are the sidewalls like in relation to eachother, what is the wear like in relation to eachother...

I already can guess what the grip is like compared to eachother, 615 is best by a fair margin, and z212 and ps2 are probably close with the z212 coming out on top...

MorpheusZero · 12-23-2007, 09:32 PM

Grip and everything will vary with heat cycling, tread depth, etc... and you KNOW this, man!

I don't think there is a way to ascertain the best tire for your application from the information given.

*michaelnyden* · 12-23-2007, 11:41 PM

I don't want a best tire assesment, I know this is impossible, I want a objective opinion from those that have had experience with each of them along with a comparison of sidewall stiffness and wear more than anything...

I already know what will grip better and what will handle heat better or worse...

MorpheusZero · 12-24-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

I don't want a best tire assesment, I know this is impossible, I want a objective opinion from those that have had experience with each of them along with a comparison of sidewall stiffness and wear more than anything...

I already know what will grip better and what will handle heat better or worse...

I meant that depending on the wear of the tires and how many times they have been heat cycled they will grip differently. A lot of these tires change properties after they have seen their share of track days or back roads. Most of the tires you are talking about are used, no?

That said, I'd want to go with PS2s simply because they are the best all around tires and will be seeing street use as well, IIRC the sidewalls are pretty stiff, but don't quote me on that.

*michaelnyden* · 12-24-2007, 01:42 PM

no, the hankook's would be new, whereas the ps2's are used at 7/32'nds...

MorpheusZero · 12-24-2007, 02:55 PM

*michaelnyden* · 12-24-2007, 03:23 PM

well what I'm saying is they are both good prices, but would you do in my position and which has a stiffer sidewall and what is the wear difference?

the price difference is not a an object, but rather they are both good deals, are the same size, I just need to know from others experiences what the their opinions on each are and how they compare in sidewall and wear...

MorpheusZero · 12-24-2007, 07:08 PM

The kook Z212 sidewalls were a bit soft for me, I have heard that the PS2 sidewalls are adequately stiff but I don't know firsthand as they're too expensive for me to consider them.

Wear wise you will probably get more out of the kooks since they're new, but I think they are similar to RT615s in that they will lose grip much before they've run out of life, my guess is that the PS2 as more of a street tire doesn't possess the same property to the same extent--but again, no firsthand experience.

*michaelnyden* · 12-24-2007, 07:18 PM

hmm...it would be interesting to find out if the 615's and the kook's both share the property of becoming crap with a quarter life left...that would definitely knock them out of the running...but I do know the kook's handle heat a little better and rain/wet as well than the 615's...

the ps2's however while not as grippy, I am wondering how much slower they will wear than the kook and how stiff the sidewall is in relation to the kook...any idea on the z212 weight? I can't find it anywhere, whereas I can find the weights for the 615's and the ps2's...

so I guess the decision becomes $500 for a new set of kooks in 235/40/18 or $300 for a set of 6 or 7/32nd ps2's in the same size...

MorpheusZero · 12-24-2007, 08:06 PM

I have found the kooks to generally be between 615s and T1Rs in the weight category. They are never exemplary but generally aren't too heavy either. Obviously there are some outliers though.

*BlackBIRDVQ* · 12-24-2007, 09:21 PM

T1Rs are very good tires especially in rainy track conditions. I had to finish off a track event in heavy downpour and it did excellent.

I'm looking at a set of Nittos for track events.

*michaelnyden* · 12-24-2007, 10:28 PM

don't get me wrong, the t1r's are good for what they are, grip, wear, and wet grip, are good for the price, but those damn sidewalls...lol...makes my car feel like stock suspension!

I've had 615's, they are notoriously heavy! but the sidewalls are very stiff...similar to bridgestones philosophy, stiff sidewalls, heavy tire...

the bottomline is if the kooks are better in wet than the 615's (sure they are since tread pattern has more void area), and have stiffer sidewalls than t1r's combined with the ability to not heat cycle out 3/4 through the tire like the azenis, then I will certainly put them at the top of my list...other wise I might go for the used set of ps2's that are really cheap near me...

*BlackBIRDVQ* · 12-24-2007, 10:41 PM

I ran T1Rs at the last event and they did pretty good, 245-40-18 and 265-35-18.

I'm looking at doing 275s all around on a set of CE28Ns this coming season, then again my car has absolutely nothing inside it now and lost about 350lbs over winter. I am going to have to recalibrate everything once I roll her out of the garage spring time.

1st official 5th gen dedicated time attack car

*michaelnyden* · 12-24-2007, 11:04 PM

make that second, well it was only for one season though, I had absolutely no interior and 255/40/17's ra-1's on enkei rpf1's...and then 245/45/17 v710's...with no exhaust after the headers...lol...

*BlackBIRDVQ* · 12-25-2007, 12:28 AM

I'm removing the dashboard, heater, A/C condenser, Lexan windows with manual front window regulators. I'm puting a STACK instrument cluster in there and a fuel cell in the trunk. Car is pretty uncomfortable to drive as it is now, I've decided to make it a time attack car. I find my R32 a comfy DD at the moment and the Maxima is my track queen.

*michaelnyden* · 12-25-2007, 01:27 AM

r32 as in skyline or r32 vw?

wow, the only thing I took out except for the entire interior was a/c and heater...I was considering full roll cage and fuel cell/cut off switch/fire system but decided to put it all back together since at the time I didn't have another car, it was my only...

*BlackBIRDVQ* · 12-25-2007, 01:32 AM

VW R32 is my winter beater for now.

I'm in process of mild turbocharging 350-400WHP (very high response turbo) and big time weight reduction. The car is not going to see any street after I get done, if anything maybe just a quick drive here n there but its not going to be a DD.

*michaelnyden* · 12-25-2007, 02:11 AM

what is the torque/power bias of the r32 awd system?

*michaelnyden* · 12-25-2007, 02:12 AM

hmm...so 6/7/32nd ps2's for $300 or new hankook z212's for $500...I am sure they will both be dead in the same amount of time/miles...provided the z212's don't do what the azenis do...

*BlackBIRDVQ* · 12-25-2007, 11:46 AM

50/50 split when slip is detected. Its not a full time AWD like Subaru's. They sell Haldex controllers which can vary the TQ split and even engage the rear diff under braking. Alot of people have asked my why I don't track the R.

It would need a ton of weight reduction to do that, and personally I like the way Maxima handles.

I advise you not to buy used tires, I've done that a few times. Its a waste of $$$.

96blkonblkse · 12-26-2007, 01:53 PM

I just picked up some Hankook RS2 Z212 in 235/45/17. Given i havent taken them auto-xing in them yet, but i got to drive them VERY aggresively on the street for a day, and compared to my michelin pilot sports i like them much better. Dry traction is insane, i find the sidewalls are a tad soft, but the thing is, it takes quite a bit for them to break loose, i couldnt get them to break loose in a turn, even going over the speed limit

but the breakaway seems pretty predictable i had a feeling i was getting close to it.

Overall im happy picked up 4 for cheap,

used tires i bought once, and i was told no holes, well i mount it, balance it within 10 minutes its loosing air, there was 2 HOLES, so now i have 2 patches in a tire i was told that was good, and usually by the time you realize something is bad, its too late, my freind picked up 2 used tires and one of the belts had shifted, he didnt realize it till he already had them for a week, it was only bad on hte freeway.

*michaelnyden* · 12-26-2007, 02:02 PM

this is a friend who is selling the used ps2's...so it's not a shop...I wouldn't buy used tires from a shop...

but I have bought plenty of used r comps in the past and they worked out great...

that puts me off a little since I am trying to get away from mushy sidewalls from my t1r's...I wonder how the z212's are in comparison...

*michaelnyden* · 12-26-2007, 03:39 PM

does anyone know or have read if the z212's remain grippy till the end and don't heat cycle out like the azenis?

*BEJAY1* · 12-26-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

does anyone know or have read if the z212's remain gripp