Autocrossing and Road Course RacingEnjoy and discuss the fun through the twisties at your favorite auto-x event. Check out the links to the SCCA website to locate your local club.
Yesterday SE-R Club of America had their convention track day @ AutoBahn Country Club in Joliet, IL. TONS of fast cars showed up to this event, and I even entered my Max into the whole mix of cars.
Overall, car was a absolute blast to drive and kept up with anything that didn't have a turbo on the car with over 300WHP. Even the rental Grand Prix GT w/SCed 3.8L didn't stand a chance anywhere, straights where it "should" dominate where no contest.
I would like to say that the cooling system on the 3.0L is great, after 4 20min balls out racing sessions where I was runing up to rev limiter most of the time- the temp stayed the same the whole time.
Brakes- ouch... car just does not wanna stop after some laps. I managed to crack, groove and do just bout everything to the stock front rotors- OEM blanks. I run Hawk HPS with SS lines and stock brake fluid. This combo blows for road racing, the rotors get overcooked in short time and I was really held back by mostly the brakes not inspiring any more confidence in me to push the car harder. This said I am going with 13" Baer EradiSpeed 2piece Cobra rotors, Jeffs brackets + rings and TTZ calipers. I should have enough stopping power then.
Wheel spin- I need a LSD. In some instances I am going through a corner at 60-70MPH trying to power out at that speed out of a corner I get massive wheel spin. Pretty much everything else on the track that day but rentals had LSD in their cars, and most cars ran slicks too.... I was on street tires.
Suspension- did an excellent job controlling the car and I thought my combo was perfectly suited for this event. It inspired me to take corners at speeds some people wouldn't try to do in smaller cars, yet my big car just craved the track. Looking through the pictures you can see the car is just flat through the turns and there is nothing that can change the way the car is planted to the ground. I ran Toyo T1Rs all around and I must say excellent tires, they let me know when I was pushing a little too hard through the corners at time with a hint of squeal but I simply love these tires. Even on the street they are excellent tires, probably the best tires I've ever had to date on my car.
174K miles on this car, and it never stops to amaze me what kind of beating it can take and ask for more. I had 2 SE-R guys run with me on 2 sessions and they where impressed in how the car had tons of power and response, and how well the suspension and chassis absorbed all the transitions through the corners. In the 2 solo sessions I had in my car (alone with no passengers) I chased down cars I had no business even being around- mid 90s 911 and E36 M3 with tons of mods driven by a cocky woman.
I have some videos from in-car also, but I don't even like watching those, makes it seem like we are not going up to 110MPH in some parts of the track- camera makes it seem like we are just driving slowly, where I was booking it pretty hard.
Enjoy.
__________________
Mike Jez
2004 Volkswagen R32.
OZ wheels, tons of suspension mods, brakes, go fast & light goodies.
Nice....I'd love to do some Autocrossing around Memphis....now if I could just click on every one of those pics fast enough, it might look like a little video....
Still haven't decided myself on picking up a '01 DE-K or '02/'03 (after the requisite leakdown test is performed )
Yesterday SE-R Club of America had their convention track day @ AutoBahn Country Club in Joliet, IL. TONS of fast cars showed up to this event, and I even entered my Max into the whole mix of cars.
Overall, car was a absolute blast to drive and kept up with anything that didn't have a turbo on the car with over 300WHP. Even the rental Grand Prix GT w/SCed 3.8L didn't stand a chance anywhere, straights where it "should" dominate where no contest.
I would like to say that the cooling system on the 3.0L is great, after 4 20min balls out racing sessions where I was runing up to rev limiter most of the time- the temp stayed the same the whole time.
Brakes- ouch... car just does not wanna stop after some laps. I managed to crack, groove and do just bout everything to the stock front rotors- OEM blanks. I run Hawk HPS with SS lines and stock brake fluid. This combo blows for road racing, the rotors get overcooked in short time and I was really held back by mostly the brakes not inspiring any more confidence in me to push the car harder. This said I am going with 13" Baer EradiSpeed 2piece Cobra rotors, Jeffs brackets + rings and TTZ calipers. I should have enough stopping power then.
Wheel spin- I need a LSD. In some instances I am going through a corner at 60-70MPH trying to power out at that speed out of a corner I get massive wheel spin. Pretty much everything else on the track that day but rentals had LSD in their cars, and most cars ran slicks too.... I was on street tires.
Suspension- did an excellent job controlling the car and I thought my combo was perfectly suited for this event. It inspired me to take corners at speeds some people wouldn't try to do in smaller cars, yet my big car just craved the track. Looking through the pictures you can see the car is just flat through the turns and there is nothing that can change the way the car is planted to the ground. I ran Toyo T1Rs all around and I must say excellent tires, they let me know when I was pushing a little too hard through the corners at time with a hint of squeal but I simply love these tires. Even on the street they are excellent tires, probably the best tires I've ever had to date on my car.
174K miles on this car, and it never stops to amaze me what kind of beating it can take and ask for more. I had 2 SE-R guys run with me on 2 sessions and they where impressed in how the car had tons of power and response, and how well the suspension and chassis absorbed all the transitions through the corners. In the 2 solo sessions I had in my car (alone with no passengers) I chased down cars I had no business even being around- mid 90s 911 and E36 M3 with tons of mods driven by a cocky woman.
I have some videos from in-car also, but I don't even like watching those, makes it seem like we are not going up to 110MPH in some parts of the track- camera makes it seem like we are just driving slowly, where I was booking it pretty hard.
Enjoy.
Post the video, in car footage is the best. I do remember seeining in car footage of another car on the track when I was out on Pocono, you're right, it seemed really slow in some parts, but I know I was up at 60-70 in those areas.
I haven't bothered with the video really. My brother was sliding around and getting in the way of the camera
Plus this kind of racing isn't what 99% of people here do, which is why we have no track event this year @ Maxus. Not sure if I will even attend, its in my back yard and it makes me sick that people actually like drag racing more than road racing. Oh well.... guess this is why I am almost never on the .org anymore.
it makes me sick that people actually like drag racing more than road racing. Oh well.... guess this is why I am almost never on the .org anymore.
You're never on the .org anymore because some people like drag racing better than road racing?
I thought there was supposed to be an autobahn track day for maxus? what ever happened with that?
Sounds like you had a good time, time to upgrade those brakes. lol I tried to run HPS my first lapping day ever so I wasn't even going that hard, was on those old kumho 712s that everyone used to buy back in 2001 and just had GC coilovers so the car was anything but fast - what a fiasco that was lol. about 3 laps in I thought I was going to end up a permanent part of the guard rail at the end of the back straight...
General attitude on the .org has gone down the krapper.... its not just that people like drag racing or what not, but because of them we didn't get Autobahn for Maxus.
There is no track for Maxus, due to lack of interest from EVERYONE but Matt Blehm and 95% of the locals we canceled the track event. They are going to go *sight* : drag racing thou, because people expressed tons of interest in that type of racing.
It took me about 3 laps to figure out that my stock rotors can't dissipate the heat fast enough. I was inspecting my car on the lift yesterday and my rotors are red like the grounds in the Arizona desert- rust looks overheated. The surface area is all grooved and I got crack in the rotors. My pads used to have black paint (looked pretty new) on the backing pads.... pure orange rust now.
I'm saving up for a Quaife and BABK, some new cheap light 17" wide rims to put some wide VictoRacers or V700s on. I plan on removing the fog lights because I don't use them, and installing some brake ducts to cool down the brakes.
__________________
Mike Jez
2004 Volkswagen R32.
OZ wheels, tons of suspension mods, brakes, go fast & light goodies.
General attitude on the .org has gone down the krapper.... its not just that people like drag racing or what not, but because of them we didn't get Autobahn for Maxus.
There is no track for Maxus, due to lack of interest from EVERYONE but Matt Blehm and 95% of the locals we canceled the track event. They are going to go *sight* : drag racing thou, because people expressed tons of interest in that type of racing.
It took me about 3 laps to figure out that my stock rotors can't dissipate the heat fast enough. I was inspecting my car on the lift yesterday and my rotors are red like the grounds in the Arizona desert- rust looks overheated. The surface area is all grooved and I got crack in the rotors. My pads used to have black paint (looked pretty new) on the backing pads.... pure orange rust now.
I'm saving up for a Quaife and BABK, some new cheap light 17" wide rims to put some wide VictoRacers or V700s on. I plan on removing the fog lights because I don't use them, and installing some brake ducts to cool down the brakes.
well that sucks - I was hoping to come out to autobahn to watch since my car is all torn apart - autobahn is a fun place. I know a couple guys who are founding members out there.
I think there are a number of reasons more people drag race than go hot lapping.
The first is cost - of couse a trip to the drag strip is much cheaper than a trip to the road course, not to mention the wear and tear on the car (brakes/tires).
Another is the fact that hot lapping is more intimidating than drag racing is. Drag racing isn't hard to do. It's not easy to do WELL, but it's not at all hard to just go out there and make some runs. Hot lapping takes a bit more balls and (depending on the track) you're more likely to damage your car in an off road excursion whether it be into the wall, trees, berms, etc.
Another, and this goes along with both of the above, is that it costs more and takes more work to take a car out on the road course than on the drag strip. Sure you could take a stock maxima out on the road course but it obviously would not be the best thing to have out there, you'd be limited to driving like 5/10ths probably lol. You can take a stock max to the drag strip and give it your all without fear of breaking anything or crashing, not so on a road course.
Lastly, drag strips are more plentiful than road courses are and more people know about them. They're just easier to get to usually for most people.
In my opinion, hot lapping is WORLDS more fun than drag racing, but some of the above reasons (cost, wear and tear, and accessibility) are why I drag raced more than I road raced when I had a car that could do both. As it sat, my turbo car that I've had since late late 2004 wouldn't have made it half a lap around a road course before ending up in the retaining wall. That's why it's under the knife and has been for the last 6 months. Back in the winter I had designs on having it ready for the Autobahn day of Maxus, but those plans quickly faded as it became apparent I wouldn't have it done.
Neal if you want to run at Autobahn, there are open spots for every event they have there pretty much. AMS is having a track day there on July 2nd as a matter a fact.... 245 dollars for FULL track- both courses open.
I agree the car has to be in TIP TOP shape in order to do this kind of thing.... but I've taken some hardcore drag guys out on the track in eighter my old SE-R or my Maxima and they are now elbows and credit cards deep into suspension tuning. It takes a well prepped car to hold up 20 min of balls out racing around at high speeds, suspension, brakes, cooling system and engine tune are a big priority when doing this kind of sport. I am a firm believer in reliable capable cars, if they can hold up to a days full of romping like this- they make excellent daily drivers'. Well the ride might be stiff and loud, but you shouldn't have any mechanical failures. It will make you a way better driver.
I am currently toying with the idea of scrapping my turbo install for a set of camshafts.... maybe do a bit of weight reduction still. Even with lack of LSD and good tires, I have no problem chasing down 200+WHP light weight cars like Civics and Sentras down the straights. Traction and braking.... my problems.
Road racing makes for better drivers, you can learn what your car can do - it will help you in every day situations. Where does drag racing help you ? When some deutchbag in a Z28 or some other poorly designed domestic revs on me on the street....... I just laugh my ***. Would love to see what he would do to me in my car on a real track, with turns.
Sure you could take a stock maxima out on the road course but it obviously would not be the best thing to have out there, you'd be limited to driving like 5/10ths probably lol. You can take a stock max to the drag strip and give it your all without fear of breaking anything or crashing, not so on a road course.
I did this...twice.....it was absolutely the most fun driving I have ever had. Even though I have a track car now, I might still take the max out to Watkins because I've wanted to since '03.
Neal if you want to run at Autobahn, there are open spots for every event they have there pretty much. AMS is having a track day there on July 2nd as a matter a fact.... 245 dollars for FULL track- both courses open.
I agree the car has to be in TIP TOP shape in order to do this kind of thing.... but I've taken some hardcore drag guys out on the track in eighter my old SE-R or my Maxima and they are now elbows and credit cards deep into suspension tuning. It takes a well prepped car to hold up 20 min of balls out racing around at high speeds, suspension, brakes, cooling system and engine tune are a big priority when doing this kind of sport. I am a firm believer in reliable capable cars, if they can hold up to a days full of romping like this- they make excellent daily drivers'. Well the ride might be stiff and loud, but you shouldn't have any mechanical failures. It will make you a way better driver.
I am currently toying with the idea of scrapping my turbo install for a set of camshafts.... maybe do a bit of weight reduction still. Even with lack of LSD and good tires, I have no problem chasing down 200+WHP light weight cars like Civics and Sentras down the straights. Traction and braking.... my problems.
Road racing makes for better drivers, you can learn what your car can do - it will help you in every day situations. Where does drag racing help you ? When some deutchbag in a Z28 or some other poorly designed domestic revs on me on the street....... I just laugh my ***. Would love to see what he would do to me in my car on a real track, with turns.
I know that it isn't exactly a track day.....but really for Maxus at least they could set up an autocross. It has advantages that a "real track" day doesn't have:
- people can bring their cars and run regardless of modifications
- little to no chance of damage or breakage of the car
- won't kill your tires nearly as much
- relatively inexperienced drivers can still do it without much risk
- it's pretty inexpensive (assuming you can set it up through a local autocross club who has the timing gear/cones/venue available)
We've had about 10 of our local "friday drag strip regulars" from this area come out to autocrosses and run, and EVERY one of them expressed how much more fun they had than at the drag strip.
Just saying...there really is a limit to "who" on here can safely (and affordably) run on AutoBahn or other road courses, whereas there is really no limitations to them doing autocross.....which is not as much fun, but still alot of fun.
__________________ 2000 Maxima SE (sold but still on the org) - 2009 Subaru WRX - 2008 4Runner SportEdition - 1990 Cherokee Laredo - 1970 Triumph GT6 Mk2
For those of us that came to MSR at Maxus '06, how many had bone stock cars? I know Sarah did... (is her name still allowed to be mentioned on this forum? ) Last year Tom Schatz brought his baiscally stock Max to MSR and ran the year before at TWS.. I I ran my bone stock 240SX- bad shocks and all- at several track events. all of the cars held up just fine.
the only thing you really need to do to a decently maintained Maxima is to install some good brake pads and bleed the brakes with high quality fluid. Even if it's 100+ degrees outside, a stock Max won't overheat.
and I've broken more parts on my Maxima in 50 passes at the dragstrip than I have in 500 laps on a road course. In 5 years of tracking my car, the only things I've broken at the road course is an engine (with 233,000 miles), one blown shock, bent LTB, and a small mountain of tires and brake pads which is normal wear and tear.
each and every time I've gone to the dragstrip, I've broken an engine mount, clutch, throwout bearing, or bent the crossmember.
launching a car at a dragstrip is infinitely tougher on the car than anything you'll do on a roadcourse.
Soooo, the argument that more stuff breaks at a road course is bunk.
The simple fact of the matter is that too many people are afraid of the costs and the stigma of wrecking their car at a road course.
Hell, you go the same speed at the dragstrip! floor the car to 100mph and then you have to stop and turn around! the only difference there is that you're not doing it from a dead stop on a road course and you get to do it multiple times per lap. so going to a road course is a win-win, IMO.
For those of us that came to MSR at Maxus '06, how many had bone stock cars? I know Sarah did... (is her name still allowed to be mentioned on this forum? ) Last year Tom Schatz brought his baiscally stock Max to MSR and ran the year before at TWS.. I I ran my bone stock 240SX- bad shocks and all- at several track events. all of the cars held up just fine.
the only thing you really need to do to a decently maintained Maxima is to install some good brake pads and bleed the brakes with high quality fluid. Even if it's 100+ degrees outside, a stock Max won't overheat.
Should be more like...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
the only thing you really need to do to a decently maintained Maxima is to install some good brake pads and bleed the brakes with high quality fluid. Even if it's 100+ degrees outside, a stock Max won't overheat.
And not let 98SEBlackMax drive it...
At TWS in '05 your engine wasn't the only victim of road racing combined with Texas heat. If you recall I boiled the coolant and the temp gauge was pinned at H. I had to run the rest of the track day with the heaters on full so the coolant wouldn't boil. Though my car isn't stock and the rad had about 175K miles of scale on it. Im happy the damn thing made it 1800 miles home later that week. At tear down the head gasket between Cylinder 2 & 4 was pretty bad, would explain the excessive coolant and oil loss it had from TWS until it finally died in October.
Also in '06 I boiled that POS "Heavy Duty" Ford brake fliud and made an a$$ of myself. Nothing beats having the brake pedal goto the floor at 80 MPH and ending up off course right before the Rattle snake at MSR. In retrospect it wasn't a good idea for me to put the whole car together so quickly and 4 days later take it for a shake down run that far away from home, but hey that's how I roll.
This year if Maxus had a road course you know I would of been there to break something else on my car, at least this time around I finally have a truck and would of towed it there and back.
__________________
- Joe
1996 KH3 Maxima SE - 215 WHP / 200 WTQ SAE corrected @ 202,000 miles, VQ30DEK swap
(5 spd - project car, never ending money pit )
With all due respect, you installed the 5th gen IM onto your 4th gen, which caused the overheating issues, correct? So had you had the stock IM on it, it wouldn't have overheated..
and that Ford brake fluid is crap. the only thing under $10/quart that I consider is the Valvoline Synpower or Castrol GT-LMA. everything else in that price range is junk- especially the Ford HD stuff that somehow got a good rap about 10 years ago.
Drag racing does wear out alot of your drivetrain components MUCH faster and is harder on the car than any kind of other racing.
For instance you do not have the jolt of the crazy launch you have to pull off to get a good 60' time. You do not need to powershift/speed shift the tranny to get the momentum going, easy shifting and being calm extends the life of your car by far. I am always nervous when I am drag racing, not that I will loose but that I will fuq up the launch or break :tranny, clutch, flywheel, axles, engine mount.....
Durring my track escape my temp gauge didn't move at all, and I am creeping up to 175K miles on my Maxima right now- all original internals, water pump, chains, radiator etc. I absolutely have so much fun while doin this type of racing, I have a HUGE smile on my face while the car is just dancing through the corners. I haven't seen the track in my Maxima in like 2-3 years now, and I am ABSOLUTELY hooked now.
Looking for brake ducts, used JDM (Work,SSR, Volk) wheels that are wide to accommodate slicks, brake upgrades, 2 racing seats.... oh and I am thinkin of pullin the interior out and thrown a cage in there Might become a dedicated TRACK car.
With all due respect, you installed the 5th gen IM onto your 4th gen, which caused the overheating issues, correct? So had you had the stock IM on it, it wouldn't have overheated..
and that Ford brake fluid is crap. the only thing under $10/quart that I consider is the Valvoline Synpower or Castrol GT-LMA. everything else in that price range is junk- especially the Ford HD stuff that somehow got a good rap about 10 years ago.
The plastic manifold was one of the reasons, I think alot of other stuff added up to the overheating issue. Reason I say that is alot of people have done a DEK manifold swap onto a 4th gen and do not report over heating issues. My car still ran hot until I replaced the radiator. Though Id agree that my car was an isolated incident.
And I learned never to use the Ford Brake fluid again, I ordered the ATE Blue when I got home and have never had a problem with it at a road course. In the future for convience Im going to use the Valvoline Synpower from now on.
From what I've gathered everyone has always had a good time at these events and they want to do it again. IMO Each year there needs to be a strong push for a road course and eventially alot more people will get into it.
launching a car at a dragstrip is infinitely tougher on the car than anything you'll do on a roadcourse.
Soooo, the argument that more stuff breaks at a road course is bunk.
Perhaps I should have worded it differently. You wear stuff out more at the road course than you do at the drag strip. You break stuff more at the drag strip though a stock maxima would be hard pressed to break anything at the drag strip unless you just wheelhop like crazy which is always a possibility.
)
this brings a tear to my eye,.. beautiful and inspiring!!!
- 2009 Subaru WRX - 2008 4Runner SportEdition - 1990 Cherokee Laredo - 1970 Triumph GT6 Mk2
) Last year Tom Schatz brought his baiscally stock Max to MSR and ran the year before at TWS.. I I ran my bone stock 240SX- bad shocks and all- at several track events. all of the cars held up just fine.
)
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