harness bar

*michaelnyden* · 11-02-2006, 01:57 PM

Does anyone have a harness bar on their car? does anyone even make a harness bar for our cars?

And yes, I know, your not supposed to run one without a full rollcage in case of a rollover...but there is no way my max will rollover...lol...and I will have camlock harness to release them quickly anyway...plus I will only use the harness bar and harnesses on the track not on the street.

**irish44j** · 11-02-2006, 08:49 PM

i asked this same question a while back and got the typical "blah blah don't run it without a roll bar" stuff, which I find is pretty bogus. I'm not worried about rolling the maxima on an autocross course, but would like a bar to hold my harness at the appropriate angle, as opposed to the 40 degree down angle it's at right now going straight to the back seatbelt bolts.

When i asked, nobody seemed to have interest in making one, and Piper motorsports (the top maker of rollbars and cages in this area) said they wouldn't make one either because of above-stated reasons.

So, if you find someplace to make one for a reasonable price, I'll go in with you for a second one....

gdmaxse · 11-02-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

I'm not worried about rolling the maxima on an autocross course, but would like a bar to hold my harness at the appropriate angle, as opposed to the 40 degree down angle it's at right now going straight to the back seatbelt bolts.

ummm isnt the whole safety issue with the angle of the harness only applicable in roll over situation. so if you are not worried about rolling over there is no reason to worry about the angle of the harness and therefore no reason to spend money on a harness bar. but get one if you want

*michaelnyden* · 11-02-2006, 11:26 PM

wait...do the harnesses really stretch that far that they can reach the rear seat belt bolts and still have adjustability?

well the harness bar serves two purposes...they add a little bit of structural integrity and they can be used as a proper camera mount as well putting the harness at a correct angle so that the belt feels better...I am putting in some 350z seats and want to top it off with a proper camlock harness and bar...why a lot of us avoid a cage is cause I have never seen a maxima rollover...and can't ever see my car doing so seeing as how I have been on very high speed road coarses and not seen a situation where that would happen and a proper quality roll cage starts at about 1200 for a sedan interior of our size...

there is a guy that makes sti and evo harness bars that I have contacted...he lives near me apparently, and said if I want to go through with it, he could do it in a weekend. He mig welds it all...and says they average about 12lbs with the support bars...then he powdercoats them to whatever color you wish...he quoted me about $200...

*97SEdriver* · 11-03-2006, 10:16 AM

I though GRM did a piece on this a while back.
I have seen a handful of harness bars in Subies, and they didn't have cages either, but who knows they could have done it themselves.

**irish44j** · 11-03-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmaxse

ummm isnt the whole safety issue with the angle of the harness only applicable in roll over situation. so if you are not worried about rolling over there is no reason to worry about the angle of the harness and therefore no reason to spend money on a harness bar. but get one if you want

actually, the issue with the harness angle has nothing to do with rollover. The maximum angle is there because if you hit something head on HARD (lightpost.....modded Celica) the harness having a large down-angle when your body goes forward will cause compression of the spine...because it will be pulling your shouders/torso DOWN instead of BACK.

A harness bar creates a smaller (ideally, +/- 10% incline) angle so that if you hit something, the harness will hold you back and not crush spinal vertebrae (I happen to like mine).

so now you know......

**irish44j** · 11-03-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

wait...do the harnesses really stretch that far that they can reach the rear seat belt bolts and still have adjustability?

I bought a g-force one with extended back straps so it would

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

well the harness bar serves two purposes...they add a little bit of structural integrity and they can be used as a proper camera mount as well putting the harness at a correct angle so that the belt feels better...

those points, plus the safety issue I noted in my previous post

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

there is a guy that makes sti and evo harness bars that I have contacted...he lives near me apparently, and said if I want to go through with it, he could do it in a weekend. He mig welds it all...and says they average about 12lbs with the support bars...then he powdercoats them to whatever color you wish...he quoted me about $200...

if you get one made for $200, let me know...maybe he'll give a discount to make two of them

Gabe wants one too...powdercoated in fuschia.

gdmaxse · 11-03-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

Gabe wants one too...powdercoated in fuschia.

haha no thanks ill save my $200 for some more tires since ill need new ones by this time next year, my harness is below the 45 degree down angle anyway

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

wait...do the harnesses really stretch that far that they can reach the rear seat belt bolts and still have adjustability?

yes my corbeau harness is adjusted to about half of whats available and it reaches the rear seatbelt mounting points fine

gdmaxse · 11-03-2006, 04:05 PM

also the spine crushing is when using a 5 or 6 point harness with anti submarine straps. with a 4 point harness you would slip under the lap belt before your vertebrae are crushed

**irish44j** · 11-03-2006, 05:07 PM

[quote=gdmaxse]haha no thanks ill save my $200 for some more tires since ill need new ones by this time next year, my harness is below the 45 degree down angle anyway[/img]

it's supposed to be ABOVE 20 degrees though, IIRC.

gdmaxse · 11-03-2006, 05:50 PM

this is what came with the corbeau harness that i use:

and this page sais 45 degrees too
http://www.sportscar-parts.com/spraceblts.htm

*michaelnyden* · 11-03-2006, 06:06 PM

so where do you guys have yours mounted? the lower seat belt mounts/bolts that go between the back seat upper and lower cushions? or the upper bolts (on the deck where the rear speakers and sub are)?

gdmaxse · 11-04-2006, 09:20 AM

lower seat belt mount bolts, i dont think the upper deck is reinforced enough to handle a harness

*michaelnyden* · 11-04-2006, 09:59 AM

hmm...what about to the enclosed baby seat loops? those would have to be very reinforced since they wouldn't want to get sued if a baby seat would fly around in an accident...

gdmaxse · 11-04-2006, 11:03 AM

no those are not reinforced enough, babys dont weigh as much as adults, take a look at them if you want, but i dont believe they are reinforced enough for a full size adult

*MaximaSE96* · 11-04-2006, 11:47 AM

instead of a harness bar invest in the Schroth harness....they are SCCA Approved and street approved....the mount to the back seatbelt mounts BUT have a special tensioning piece to keep a vary shallow PROPER angle....

**irish44j** · 11-04-2006, 05:04 PM

Instructions from my G-Force harness here. I guess they'er more concerned about spinal compression than other manufacturers. I'll take their word for it. Better safe than sorry, in my opinion. Maybe Sparco is more interested in selling them than they are in safety, who knows.....

note the second paragraph.

**irish44j** · 11-04-2006, 05:08 PM

funny how sparco thinks a big down-angle is OK, yet they manufacture harness bars for many of the most popular track cars (evos, mustangs, etc)

http://www.sparcousa.com/harness_bars.asp

gdmaxse · 11-04-2006, 10:31 PM

i dont think the 45 degree angle is a problem since BOTH sparco and corbeau suggest it as the maximum angle for their harnesses. since i am within the recommended range from the manufacturer of MY harness, i dont consider a harness bar necessary, but if you feel safer using one, go ahead

**irish44j** · 11-05-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmaxse

i dont think the 45 degree angle is a problem since BOTH sparco and corbeau suggest it as the maximum angle for their harnesses. since i am within the recommended range from the manufacturer of MY harness, i dont consider a harness bar necessary, but if you feel safer using one, go ahead

Thanks for your permission

I don't cosider it a "necessity" either. I was only replying to your statement that

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdmaxse

if you are not worried about rolling over there is no reason to worry about the angle of the harness and therefore no reason to spend money on a harness bar

which is incorrect, as the angle of the harness has little to do with rollover and everything to do with a front-end collision.

I'm not sure why Sparco, Coreau, G-Force, etc would all have different maximum angles.....after all, when it all comes down to it they are all just a pair of freakin straps that go over your shoulders....

gdmaxse · 11-05-2006, 07:11 PM

yeah you are right, the angle is not a problem with roll over, but i think the reason most companies are not interested in making harness bars for cars without roll cages is because when you flip a car with a harness and no roll cage, the roof could cave in and break your neck because your body is held in place securely but your head can be forced around

gdmaxse · 11-05-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

I'm not sure why Sparco, Coreau, G-Force, etc would all have different maximum angles.....after all, when it all comes down to it they are all just a pair of freakin straps that go over your shoulders....

yeah i mean the main reason i have it is because i have the stupid automatic seatbelts which dont hold you in the car at all and i can drive faster without having to brace myself with the dead pedal

*michaelnyden* · 11-05-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

yeah you are right, the angle is not a problem with roll over, but i think the reason most companies are not interested in making harness bars for cars without roll cages is because when you flip a car with a harness and no roll cage, the roof could cave in and break your neck because your body is held in place securely but your head can be forced around

then why do they make them for evo's, sti's, integra's, etc....yes it is a concern...and you would most likely break your neck if held in during a rollover...but I don't ever see my car rolling over in all the type of racing I have done so far and don't plan on doing it anytime soon...in addition, it's not like we use the harnesses all the time, just at the track/autox...on the street I would use my regular seatbelt...I just want something better than my current cg-lock...

gdmaxse · 11-06-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelnyden

...I just want something better than my current cg-lock...

then get one of the harnesses that bolt into stock seatbelt locations like the corbeau, sparco, schroth, gforce. the corbeau one works well for me and is cheap but the others are essentially the same thing so any should work. stick with 4 and 3 point models. you can decide whether you want to clip them in or bolt them in permanently and stuff them away when you dont need them. mine has a buckle in the middle so i can disconnect it from the back mount points and put my tires in the back seat easily.

**irish44j** · 11-06-2006, 04:00 PM

I was told by the guys at Piper motorsport that the only way you can safely use a harness bar to be safe from rollover is to have the harness custom-changed to have velcro quick-release sections that could be torn free in case of rollover.