6th Gen Transmission Swap (HLSD Swap) Questions
06-27-2011, 09:00 PM
#1
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6th Gen Transmission Swap (HLSD Swap) Questions
I am posting this here because I know this is where the gurus lurk...
The input shaft bearing is starting to go bad on my 2002 6MT.
I plan on swapping a low mileage 2006 Maxima transmission in.
The transmission that came in my car has the HLSD.
The transmission that I am getting does not.
I know that the HLSD can be swapped over from my current transmission, but I was wondering how involved this process is.
Is there anything special that I should know before I try to open up the transmission?
I am assuming that I would just swap the ring gear from the '06 tranny onto the '02 diff and just drop it in.
Do I have to worry about **** flying out of the transmission once I crack the case open (like ball bearings or anything)?
Is there any hidden snap rings or something that will prevent the housing from coming apart? (I remember reading something about a member on here who was having trouble separating the housings.)
The FSM states that I should replace the plugs that hold in the ball and spring. Is this necessary?
Should I attempt to replace any bearings in the new transmission while I'm in there?
Should I attempt to replace any shims like the input shaft bearing shim to prevent this problem from happening again?
I read on here on some random thread about someone using (solder?) to measure the clearance of the input shaft to determine which shim they need. Can anyone shed some light on this process?
I have access to precision measurement tools.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
The input shaft bearing is starting to go bad on my 2002 6MT.
I plan on swapping a low mileage 2006 Maxima transmission in.
The transmission that came in my car has the HLSD.
The transmission that I am getting does not.
I know that the HLSD can be swapped over from my current transmission, but I was wondering how involved this process is.
Is there anything special that I should know before I try to open up the transmission?
I am assuming that I would just swap the ring gear from the '06 tranny onto the '02 diff and just drop it in.
Do I have to worry about **** flying out of the transmission once I crack the case open (like ball bearings or anything)?
Is there any hidden snap rings or something that will prevent the housing from coming apart? (I remember reading something about a member on here who was having trouble separating the housings.)
The FSM states that I should replace the plugs that hold in the ball and spring. Is this necessary?
Should I attempt to replace any bearings in the new transmission while I'm in there?
Should I attempt to replace any shims like the input shaft bearing shim to prevent this problem from happening again?
I read on here on some random thread about someone using (solder?) to measure the clearance of the input shaft to determine which shim they need. Can anyone shed some light on this process?
I have access to precision measurement tools.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 06-27-2011 at 09:05 PM.
06-28-2011, 04:50 AM
#2
I did a similar swap so this might help. I went from on Open Diff 6th gen gearbox and swapped in the HLSD from a Sentra Spec-V. The assumptions that you have are pretty much what I did. I just swapped over the ring gear and bolted the Diff back into the trans. That is what I suggest you do as well since you state the gearbox you are swapping in has low miles. Also I used the FSM to help me take the gearbox apart. There are really not any tricks but you do have to take your time especially since you basically will tear the whole gearbox down. I suggest having a different variety of pliers especially snap ring pliers and a magnet of some sort. Also you will have to remove the two "towers" that all the gears sit on to be able to take the diff out.
Some pictures for you. Have Fun
Some pictures for you. Have Fun
06-28-2011, 08:45 AM
#4
They remove as one tower after you get the shift forks off (I HATE THOSE ****ING PUSH PINS)
After you remove the shift forks, you have to pull vertically on both of them simultaneously.
It comes out like that (look in the right bottom corner of the pic)
And then you should be left with.....
The FSM is actually kind of helpful in this case.
BECAREFUL WITH REVERSE! Please for the love of all thigns holy do not let that thing fall apart, I couldn't put it back together without help.
You have to take out the input shaft and output shaft psuedo simultaneously
After you remove the shift forks, you have to pull vertically on both of them simultaneously.
It comes out like that (look in the right bottom corner of the pic)
And then you should be left with.....
The FSM is actually kind of helpful in this case.
BECAREFUL WITH REVERSE! Please for the love of all thigns holy do not let that thing fall apart, I couldn't put it back together without help.
You have to take out the input shaft and output shaft psuedo simultaneously
06-28-2011, 09:05 AM
#5
IIRC, you can pull the diff out without having to completely remove the input and main shafts, just pulling them up some.
You might have to pull the 1/2 shift fork, but I seem to remember (though it's been years since I've torn down an RS6F) that you could get just enough room to wiggle the diff out without removing everything else.
You might have to pull the 1/2 shift fork, but I seem to remember (though it's been years since I've torn down an RS6F) that you could get just enough room to wiggle the diff out without removing everything else.
08-08-2011, 12:10 PM
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I just ordered a bunch of parts from Courtesy Nissan.
I ordered new shims for the input shaft bearing and the differential side bearings. I ordered the biggest ones available as I plan on having them ground down to the proper size after I take my measurements.
I also ordered new oil seals for the differential and input shaft, as well as new plugs for the check *****.
I am picking up the transmission tomorrow and plan on swapping it in next week. I will post plenty of pics of the process.
I ordered new shims for the input shaft bearing and the differential side bearings. I ordered the biggest ones available as I plan on having them ground down to the proper size after I take my measurements.
I also ordered new oil seals for the differential and input shaft, as well as new plugs for the check *****.
I am picking up the transmission tomorrow and plan on swapping it in next week. I will post plenty of pics of the process.
08-09-2011, 12:13 AM
#12
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This was suggested to me by another forum member because it takes so long for the shims to get here because most of them are on back order.
08-15-2011, 09:47 AM
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Is it possible to open the case the other way? Like have the trans axle side sitting down and lift the bell housing side off of it? This would make it easier to remove the diff assembly.
Like this picture:
Instead of:
Like this picture:
Instead of:
08-15-2011, 05:02 PM
#15
The check *****, check plugs and springs hold the shift rods/ forks. Therefore the shift rods/forks restrict you from just pulling up on the input shaft and main shaft up. So no that probably wont work. (As far as Im concerned)
08-18-2011, 11:55 PM
#16
What he said. He/she seems very knowledgeable for a new poster.
The picture being shown with the gearshafts in the case is for shimming purposes. Unfortunately, ALL of the gearshafts, shift rods/forks, check *****, etc are IN the bellhousing. It's not like a RWD tranny. This is a VERY involved process and not for the faint of heart. You have to disassemble the entire tranny to do this. IIRC, if you have the 5spd non-LSD, you could wiggle out the final drive without removing the gearshafts and shift rods. But NOT with the VLSD 5spd.
Again, I can't stress enough how hard this is. On a scale from 1-10, this is probably a 9 or a 10 in difficulty. If you've never cracked open a tranny, you should have someone else do it, or have someone with experience help you.
Last edited by Weimar Ben; 08-18-2011 at 11:58 PM.
08-19-2011, 06:22 AM
#17
^^^^^^
What he said. He/she seems very knowledgeable for a new poster.
The picture being shown with the gearshafts in the case is for shimming purposes. Unfortunately, ALL of the gearshafts, shift rods/forks, check *****, etc are IN the bellhousing. It's not like a RWD tranny. This is a VERY involved process and not for the faint of heart. You have to disassemble the entire tranny to do this. IIRC, if you have the 5spd non-LSD, you could wiggle out the final drive without removing the gearshafts and shift rods. But NOT with the VLSD 5spd.
Again, I can't stress enough how hard this is. On a scale from 1-10, this is probably a 9 or a 10 in difficulty. If you've never cracked open a tranny, you should have someone else do it, or have someone with experience help you.
What he said. He/she seems very knowledgeable for a new poster.
The picture being shown with the gearshafts in the case is for shimming purposes. Unfortunately, ALL of the gearshafts, shift rods/forks, check *****, etc are IN the bellhousing. It's not like a RWD tranny. This is a VERY involved process and not for the faint of heart. You have to disassemble the entire tranny to do this. IIRC, if you have the 5spd non-LSD, you could wiggle out the final drive without removing the gearshafts and shift rods. But NOT with the VLSD 5spd.
Again, I can't stress enough how hard this is. On a scale from 1-10, this is probably a 9 or a 10 in difficulty. If you've never cracked open a tranny, you should have someone else do it, or have someone with experience help you.
I managed to strip down the transmission properly and store everything and not loose one single piece, as for re-assembly... Eh Reverse fell apart on me then I got too busy w/ work and I just said screw it and let my mechanic do it....
I need to go over the FSM again... But it may be possible to... Crack open the crase, remove pins/check *****, put case back on, do a 180 with it, and have everything sitting pretty inside of the tranmission housing??? Hrmm wait how would reverse stay together? (THAT GEAR CAN GOTO HELL)
//edit nah I don't think it's possible, more trouble that it's worth, just do it the way the FSM states..... Until some genius figures out a way around it (I'm sure there is a way around it, but I wont be finding out until this old sentra tranny of mine calls it quits)
Last edited by aackshun; 08-19-2011 at 06:27 AM.
08-20-2011, 10:57 AM
#18
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UPDATE:
Everything worked out!
I removed my transmission and opened the case as per the FSM instructions.
(Remove the check ***** and shift mechanism while pulling the main shaft snap ring open through the bore hole)
My input shaft bearing was destroyed and there were a bunch of metal shavings on the magnet.
Input shaft bearing:
Magnet from inside the trans:
From there, I tried removing the differential by sliding it out, but it was being sort of "blocked" in by the gear tower and 1-2 shift fork. From this point on I kind of improvised.
I removed the two bolts that hold the reverse fork in which allowed me to completely remove the reverse fork (not the reverse gear or anything).
Next, I punched out the pin that holds the 1-2 shift fork on and removed the rod that holds the fork on.
Next I tried pulling up on the gears but they still wouldn't move up enough to allow me to slide the diff out. My friend Rick who is really good with this kind of stuff came up with the brilliant idea of tapping the input shaft with a soft hammer. THIS WORKED. It allowed the gears to move up about a half inch, giving the differential just enough room to fall out!
That left me with this.
Next, I repeated the entire process with the new transmission and swapped the ring gear over.
Open diff on the left, HLSD on the right:
My friend Rick bolting on the ring gear (ignore the kid in the background):
I just threw the entire HLSD carrier in the new trans without messing with the bearings. They were in great condition. I did not change the races in the new trans and I did not re shim for the preload. I know once a bearing has been worn into a race, it should never be ran on a different race, but I concluded that I would have done more damage to the bearing trying to remove it from the diff.
I didn't shim for the preload because I couldn't afford to wait for the proper shim and didn't feel like waiting for a machine shop to grind my shim down. I am going to assume that most of the manufacturing variances are in the case of the transmission rather than the bearings and the carrier, so I should be good.
On a side note, the synchros in my original transmission were in excellent shape even with 140k hard miles, considering for the last 2k miles, I have been shifting without the clutch lol.
CONCLUSION:
The diff CAN be swapped without removing everything inside the trans.
Thanks pmohr, Shift_Max, and aackshun.
Everything worked out!
I removed my transmission and opened the case as per the FSM instructions.
(Remove the check ***** and shift mechanism while pulling the main shaft snap ring open through the bore hole)
My input shaft bearing was destroyed and there were a bunch of metal shavings on the magnet.
Input shaft bearing:
Magnet from inside the trans:
From there, I tried removing the differential by sliding it out, but it was being sort of "blocked" in by the gear tower and 1-2 shift fork. From this point on I kind of improvised.
I removed the two bolts that hold the reverse fork in which allowed me to completely remove the reverse fork (not the reverse gear or anything).
Next, I punched out the pin that holds the 1-2 shift fork on and removed the rod that holds the fork on.
Next I tried pulling up on the gears but they still wouldn't move up enough to allow me to slide the diff out. My friend Rick who is really good with this kind of stuff came up with the brilliant idea of tapping the input shaft with a soft hammer. THIS WORKED. It allowed the gears to move up about a half inch, giving the differential just enough room to fall out!
That left me with this.
Next, I repeated the entire process with the new transmission and swapped the ring gear over.
Open diff on the left, HLSD on the right:
My friend Rick bolting on the ring gear (ignore the kid in the background):
I just threw the entire HLSD carrier in the new trans without messing with the bearings. They were in great condition. I did not change the races in the new trans and I did not re shim for the preload. I know once a bearing has been worn into a race, it should never be ran on a different race, but I concluded that I would have done more damage to the bearing trying to remove it from the diff.
I didn't shim for the preload because I couldn't afford to wait for the proper shim and didn't feel like waiting for a machine shop to grind my shim down. I am going to assume that most of the manufacturing variances are in the case of the transmission rather than the bearings and the carrier, so I should be good.
On a side note, the synchros in my original transmission were in excellent shape even with 140k hard miles, considering for the last 2k miles, I have been shifting without the clutch lol.
CONCLUSION:
The diff CAN be swapped without removing everything inside the trans.
Thanks pmohr, Shift_Max, and aackshun.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 08-20-2011 at 11:03 AM.
08-20-2011, 03:00 PM
#19
Great how to right there! 
I'm pretty sure I sheared or broke a tooth off the ring gear on my diff. The car makes a clacking sound and I drained the fluid in the trans and there were metal shavings.
So looks like I'll be finding a sentra spec v trans and swapping in the HLSD from it.
Can't wait till I get back to school so I can have the tools to do it right. Then I can keep racing the car.
I'm pretty sure I sheared or broke a tooth off the ring gear on my diff. The car makes a clacking sound and I drained the fluid in the trans and there were metal shavings.
So looks like I'll be finding a sentra spec v trans and swapping in the HLSD from it.
Can't wait till I get back to school so I can have the tools to do it right. Then I can keep racing the car.
08-21-2011, 11:53 AM
#20
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Great how to right there!
I'm pretty sure I sheared or broke a tooth off the ring gear on my diff. The car makes a clacking sound and I drained the fluid in the trans and there were metal shavings.
So looks like I'll be finding a sentra spec v trans and swapping in the HLSD from it.
Can't wait till I get back to school so I can have the tools to do it right. Then I can keep racing the car.
I'm pretty sure I sheared or broke a tooth off the ring gear on my diff. The car makes a clacking sound and I drained the fluid in the trans and there were metal shavings.
So looks like I'll be finding a sentra spec v trans and swapping in the HLSD from it.
Can't wait till I get back to school so I can have the tools to do it right. Then I can keep racing the car.
You will probably have to re-shim everything if you do swap the entire bellhousing though. That's why I chose not to go that route.
08-23-2011, 04:36 PM
#23
Honestly I think you will be fine. I did not shim the carrier bearings either and have not had any issues. I just dropped in the HLSD unit into the lower mileage trans. To this day it still feels great and no noises or weird issues from the trans.
Dont even sweat it IMO
Dont even sweat it IMO
08-24-2011, 10:22 AM
#24
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Honestly I think you will be fine. I did not shim the carrier bearings either and have not had any issues. I just dropped in the HLSD unit into the lower mileage trans. To this day it still feels great and no noises or weird issues from the trans.
Dont even sweat it IMO
Dont even sweat it IMO
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