sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

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grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Take a look at these photos of a '08 Altima LIM and UIM. The ports and passages are larger and better developed, plenum is larger, and there are two VIAS butterflies. Plus the UIM won't pick up engine heat....

It looks good enough to have a machinist take a look at making the LIM fit on my engine, anyway.



http://forums.maxima.org/nitrous/614...t-doing-3.html

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I saw and read your thread, looks interesting. Machining down the LIM and possibly having to relocate the injector holes may be a bit out of my range of ability, as everything I'm talking about doing on a SSIM can be done by myself at home and by my friend with his tig welder. I will probably be having the exterior thermal dispersant coated and continue to ice it at the track as I normally do, should work pretty well.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I was already working on something pretty close to what your talking about and was also talking to Streetz about it. I ditched the idea when my motor blew but plan to still due it in the future for a local org member who has a 8k rev limiter.

I"ll let you know how it works out when completed. Funny thing is the design is pretty simple.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Yep quite simple since we already have the flanges if you have an extra elbow to cut up.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Found aluminum cone reducers at this site so as to avoid using a coupler...

http://www.burnsstainless.com/rd-300-400-16-6061-l.aspx

I have a friend who can tig aluminum so the welding is no problem.

I would use a long one in 3" > 3.5" as the "straight" part of the elbow that goes to the TB.

MIKERNM1990

Great Write Up!

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

Or you can just make your own with a piece of spare pipe for nothing. I made this to elimate a 2.5-3inch coupler in my intercooler piping and had it tig welded

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

My welder friend said to just let him build a cone out of some 1/8" aluminum plate he has sitting around... said it would be easier to mate up with the cast stock stuff, anyway.

Will also be cutting/grinding off all the mounting points since I don't use an engine cover and possibly even polishing it instead of getting it coated... Don't know yet.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

So... Looking closely at the stock IM/elbow, it appears that the elbow is designed for split flow to make the length equal for both the top and bottom of the IM, with the top 3 being staggered about 1.5" further forward in the chamber than the bottom 3 and the 2 elbow tubes staggered in length to make up for it. In addition, the lower elbow runner aims the air slightly towards the driver side to get the bottom 3 cylinders centered in the airflow and the upper runner aims the air slightly towards the passenger side for the top 3 runners.

When the intake is SSIM'd and the plenum chamber opened, I believe the path of air made by the stock elbow would still be beneficial to getting even flow into each cylinder. Probably more beneficial than an elbow that can flow more at high RPMs. I'm actually somewhat inclined to leave the shelf inside the elbow fully in tact, although ported and carefully radiused. I may also try to sharpen and radius the "splitter" on the TB side where the upper/lower split to make it less of an obstruction and increase velocity.

So that basically means that the elbow modification is being cancelled in light of more specific analysis.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Also going to be considering a block off plate that bulges a little for a free volume increase. This should be VERY easy to test on the dyno vs an original BOP to see if it makes any difference at all.

tuko316

I wouldn't ditch the elbow idea. If you look at how SG did his plenum he made the elbow bigger and made it expand. by adding a 90mm throttle body he said he picked up more power then the carbotron manifold (God I love that manifold!).

The SFR manifold isn't segmented inside. It proved to add a lot of power at redline. On a stock cam motor with no other changes, not even a retune, it shows the factory manifold is a restriction. The neck on the SFR is pretty bigger too.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I don't have much to add, but cutting out the ledge in the elbow (In a v-shape) as much as possible & smoothing it out definitely made a noticeable difference on the dyno, it wasn't much, like 2hp peak, but it was definitely enough that it could be seen & repeated. This was on an ssim, stock elbow vs notched & portmatched elbow, it also had NWP spacers.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

You mean something like this

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Yup.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Interesting... It kind of stands to reason, in that case, that cleaning out the elbow through the bend would give nice gains too. Guess I could still do the custom elbow and see what it does on a dyno.... Too bad I can't monitor AFR on both banks easily.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Nice intake theory thread.

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/ka...old-guide.html

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Sort of sad not to see any results from this....

http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...m-setup-3.html

essential1

iTrader: (5)

Ah.. I remember that thread. The "poor man's ITB" I've always wanted to see those results too.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

I'm hoping the very large elbow will give a similar result, maybe without such a huge powerband shift as he was detailing.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Well the 3.5" piping came in today. It sure doesn't look much bigger than 3", but it measures 89MM OD, 83MM ID. My TB measures 70MM ID, so that's around 40% more cross sectional area (3848mm^2 vs 5410mm^2). I may try to stretch it a little bit just as it goes into the plenum, depending on how I set up the flange (if i even have a flange when it's done).

For comparison, I can't get an accurate measurement of the stock elbow cross sectional area through the 90 degree bend section, but rough estimate looks like around 4000-4500 mm^2, judging by outside dimensions with some guesswork.

I've got some ideas for the plenum that may work out really well... It will require me to spend much of the time I was expecting to spend hollowing out the stock plenum to do something completely different, basically shaping and cutting aluminum plate to build a new plenum around the stock runners (I couldn't recreate the runners, know my limitations). It will also give me the opportunity to clean up all of the runners and their venturi entrances without anything in the way and also to rebuild the plenum around the driver side runners so they are not in the very corner of the plenum. In addition, I will be able to have the elbow entering the plenum a little higher and aiming slightly down to get a more even angle of air flow on the top and bottom banks. It's going to be hilarious if I do this whole project with an increase in elbow flow and plenum volume, but lose power. Guess I'll be finding out the hard way...

Once all the pieces are together, I am going to get 4 tunes together on the UTEC by installing each and using autotune to get the maps together quickly. Ignition maps will be identical for each.

1. Current 3" SRI and stock maf on vias delete... already have this one.
2. 3.5" SRI/LRMAF(to battery) on vias delete (guessing and hoping this makes more power)
3. 3.5" SRI/LRMAF(to battery) on new plenum
4. 3.5" SRI/LRMAF super short, filter on MAF basically on new plenum

Then I can get an hour of dyno time and test all of these things in order without spending much time on air/fuel tuning. This will be holding the assumption that the 3.5" intake/MAF makes power and that the new plenum makes power. I won't be doing the dyno until later in the spring or early summer because cams (BC S2) and supporting mods (HR springs, revup pump, ARP rod bolts) will have to be installed first for me to make the most accurate comparisons.

Plan for late spring/summer. Once I get the optimal intake and IM set up squared away, plus other parts installed, I will take my car to National Speed and have them do a solid tune starting from a lower throttle % and with cam timing adjustments (Vmanage).

Should be starting work on the IM plenum as soon as I get the right tools together and will start posting pictures at that point.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

82MM MAF for $60 shipped on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9#ht_936wt_939

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

3003-H14 .125 (1/8") aluminum plate will be used for the plenum changes. Most "custom" sheet metal intake manifolds use the .090 or .125 aluminum of this type for easy welding and forming.

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-96-83...num-plate.aspx

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Pictures of the IM before it goes fully under the knife. Already had a rough SSIM job done.

Everything with black sharpie on it is being cut off. So all the bolt mounting holes, and the whole plenum aside from the back "plate" that the runners are connected to.

Will be taking measurements under the hood to determine the final plenum size and carefully designing the new one.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Will be cutting off the mounting points and plenum tomorrow, then get started cleaning up the inside of the plenum and rough polishing of the outside.

I'm only going to polish it down to 400ish grit to get it smooth for coating so it will look identical to the 1/8" plate when it's all coated black.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

cant wait to see the finshed product , what size stacks your going with ? 60mm ?

are you buidling something similar to this ?

http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php...d=194777241351

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Won't be using velocity stacks because of the huge cost and difficulty increase, as well as increasing runner length more. I am basically making a frankenstein sheet metal intake using stock runners.

Here are pics of today's progress. Most of the time was spent cutting off the stock plenum then playing with the welder to make sure the cast could be welded without too much trouble, but I also started forming the shelf, cutting off the bolt mounts, and some polishing.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Were I to build a full custom manifold, it would have to be 100% optimal... Twin plenums and separate TBs/intakes with a standalone that can support it. That way you could have straight runners exiting the heads meaning they could be formed from sheet metal for the perfect 1-2% taper up to the bell mouths with the exact length and total volume needed for the cams/heads being used. If I ever go with a 350z instead of the swap project I've been planning as my "toy" car, making a twin plenum intake manifold may be one of my big projects for it (If it's a DE/revup).

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

well the best OEM flowing manifold right now is the VR38DETT / Twin intakes, that is the best flowing manifold right now on the market , so your idea isnt far off from building an ideal manifold.

We done some testing/comparing from the VG30DETT manifolds, Z33, Maximas, the Pathfinder 4.0 acutally flows pretty well

good luck , tho that looks like alot of grinding /cutting you did for the day

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, yeah that cast is a lot stronger than it looks... It's true Nissan changed to the twin plenum designs on the new RWD (and GTR) V6s for a reason, good stuff! All this is really costing me is a bunch of time + some minor expenses for the aluminum plate and 3.5" piping. If I wanted to spend a bunch of cash, I'd just pony up for ITBs and a haltech platinum lol!

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Lots of progress and the hardest welding is now out of the way... Obviously there is still tons of grinding and cleaning up to do, but I ran low on time today as the last of the welding was finished. Waiting on some flap wheels with a long mandrel to come in the mail for cleaning and polishing the runners.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Got a lot more grinding and polishing done today. Also cleaned up the LRMAF (82MM ID) to be ready for paint, stabbed myself with some sheet metal, and played with a big *** tesla coil. Just need to polish the runners a little and we'll be ready to finish building the plenum box.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Dude , there must be a story behind you being in a wheel chair...


looks pretty good so far, runners are nice and shiney !

get well soon

JonBlz

iTrader: (11)

looks very interesting

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

That's actually my buddy Dominic (the tig welder pro) with the broken leg. He rolled it under a bunch of steel rod a couple of months ago.

ampire

iTrader: (12)

Looks better than that custom 3.0 intake manifold that Soravia adapted for RWD.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/240sx-vq-swap-project-s13-v-spec-with-vq30de-from-maxima-t326877-80.html

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Well I certainly hope so. That intake looks terrible, the stock VQ30 manifold would surely flow better. I'm not sure if you are trying to compliment or if that's a jibe at my work comparing it to that junk.

ampire

iTrader: (12)

Haha I think your work looks great, and I thought you would get a kick out of seeing that mess of jbweld.

tonedef

iTrader: (7)

great work, props...

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

haha yeah... I was expecting to see something cool, then to my horror it just got worse and worse. I def wouldn't have embarked on this project without a friend who can tig aluminum and some planning.