Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Mods please consolidate my other posts in the all motor forum if you want. I figured I'd just start my own thread so as to reduce and consolidate threads. And before anyone gets annoyed, I have thoroughly researched all 3.5 swap threads. My case is slightly unique as I am swapping in a 2008 VQ35 which I acquired with basically the block, cylinder heads and valve covers.

I'm scavenging as many parts off the 3.0 as I can, but realized there are many that will not be used.

So far I've finished the timing, swapped in 3.0 thermostat, spark plugs and installed flywheel. Installed front stock 3.0 exhaust header, and rear including egr/purge set-up.

This is where I'm stuck. Almost all the threads involve swaps that used engines with all accessories (except obvious stuff like alt/psp etc.) I installed my 3.0 water outlet and there are so many f**cking hoses coming out of it where I just cut the old im & TB hoses off.

WTF do I do to connect the water outlet, egr, and TB/IM?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Does the order of the coil packs matter?
, the ones I have all came off a 2004 vq35 I think.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Why 3.0 spark plugs?

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

Get rid of the 3.0 spark plugs! Put NGK copper 3.5 plugs and you wont have a problem. Change them every 12k-15k miles and you're good to go.

* The small hoses (5/16" hoses) are for the TB crap. You can just connect the 2 with a union and you're set. It's a PITA to be removing those from the bottom of the TB
* The bigger 1/2" hose fittings are for the hoses that go back to your firewall and turn to the passenger side and plug into the heater core fittings there (these are your heater hoses)
* The EGR I cant help you with it. The only experience I have with EGR is to get rid of it , not actually trying to get it to work
* The IM and TB... well if you cant figure out how to put THOSE on, how the heck are you doing and engine swap?

Good luck man!

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.

The IM and TB are no problem, converted the Egas TB, but worried now after reading some of the probs with them acting up after bumps in road etc. I will just have to make sure the tps is well mounted.

Its the multitude of other hoses in addition to the heater core coming off the 3.0 water outlet that I'm unsure of what to do with, there looks like about a dozen of them. Will the unused ones have to be capped?

So the engine will run without the EGR?

What about the purge/EVAP BS, is that necessary or can I sh*t can that crap too?

Never even took the old plugs out of the 3.0, but I didn't get very good plugs either. All I could get was autolite iridium tipped pos. My impatient a$$ couldn't wait for next day dellivery.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK, what is this in pic below. It's located on the back of the block just behind the rear exhaust manifold?



Also bye bye EGR, but that still leaves me these lines coming off the water outlet. I now the two main ones go to the heater core, but what about the others (6 cirlcled in yellow, two rubber, 4 rigid)?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK, found out that's the coolant plug and the reason it has a hole in it is for Canadians so they can heat the engine. Still unsure about extra outlets on coolant outlet, but I'll worry about that later. Got the UDP installed with no worries, belts too.


Here's the ACT Six Puck Clutch



Pilot bushing would not fit in crankshaft so had to just eyeball the install.



And got injector harness today. Just waiting on intake, last coil pack and afpr.
Should be in this weekend

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Ok, it's in, pics to follow can't post pics at work . I got it in with the tranny attached, was a bit of a biatch as the garage door limited the height that the cherry picker could reach so I had to lift it part of the way over myself. All those deadlifts finally paid off. Radiator's in, harness is hooked up, however there seems to be a lot of connectors that don't go anywhere. Will post pics later. Still need help with EVAC setup, not doing the EGR, but need to know what to do with the sensor. Do I just connect it and leave it hanging there?

Also, I lost my pax side CV bolts, does anyone happen to have some spares???? Help!!

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

IACV is not going to be connected, read that the egas adjustment screw will work for now until I get a pathy TB. Had a friend help me out a little last weekend, showed me some of the vacuum system hookups. I'm still confused somewhat about the vacuum connections. So far I have connected via T fittings all the vacuum lines (fpr (to tank) tank from evap cannister, stock fpr (I modded 3.5 rail to take 4th gen stock fpr, sure hope it works) These all all connected to the TB collector. The brake line is connected sep to IM. I'm a bit worried about this set up.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

It's almost ready. Waiting for cat to come from cali, sigh. Here's a good laugh, I installed a new battery yesterday and hooked up the positive cable from the battery to the hot side of the starter solenoid. Wife and I were in bed almost asleep when I smelled something burning. We got up and sniffed around all the electronic equipment in the bedroom until I remembered that the air conditioner intake was in the garage. When I got out there it was full of smoke. The solenoid was molten plastic and solder. LMFAO. Another rookie mistake by a pure rookie. Here's to best hopes for this car running next week. Fingers crossed.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

She cranks but won't turn over. I did the returnless system with the T in the supply line and the afpr. I used the stock 4th gen fpr to supply fuel to the rail. I pulled the supply hose off and fuel poured out so I got gas. Trouble is, there is no pressure at the afpr. There is no label for input/output so I'm not 100% sure it is connected correctly. Will check engine codes next and grounds.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Cleaned off the Crank pos sensor at the tranny, it was dirty. Is there supposed to be a small metal bracket under the screw? After I cleanded both the crank sensors, I tried in vain to start it. No joy. Next is to repalce the udp with the stock 3.0 and see if that helps. I pulled the codes, got these:

Ignition circuit
Idle control
Knock sensor

Would the knock sensor prevent engine start? I just replaced it during the swap, it's brand new.

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

Make sure your injectors are grounded.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK, injectors are grounded to the im. Changed the UDP back to the stock pulley. Still cranks but no turn over. Trying not to get mad. No CEL. Pulled #2 coil pack off with plug and there is spark there, but it is light. I have these cheezy autolite plugs, maybe I should use better ones? Can hear injectors clicking with stethescope. The only thing i'm not feeling good about is my fuel set up. I used the 3.0 stock fpr and there is fuel there, not sure on the pressure though.

Please help, any suggestions would be welcom.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK, changing out cheap plugs, going with NGK copper I think. Also think I'm going to get a walbro fuel pump and a better fpr. That pos I got from ebay is bunk as far as I can see. I have it between the T fitting and the return to tank line and there is no pressure indication at all.

Anyone think that poor fuel pressure, no return and ****ty plugs can cause a crank but no start condition?

datdude20

iTrader: (17)

yup.....did u try and start it with the crank sensor unplugged? it will take a while to start but it should start

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Tried it with sensor unplugged and still won't turn over, doesn't even sputter. I used an obdII code reader today and got the following codes:

P0325 Knock Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Malfunction.

Could these issues prevent the engine from turning over?

The timing ring I took from my old OEM flywheel and installed on the fidanza, it seemed to fit fine. Is it posible that the timing ring is misalligned. It looked dead on after I installed the flywheel. Sigh.

The knock sensor is brand new, could this prevent the engine from turning over also?

timmay5835

iTrader: (14)

I would definitely look into that crankshaft position sensor code. That for sure wont let you start the car.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, I've been reading in the 4th gen forums about similar instances where starting difficulties occured after clutch changes. I'm going to install a new negative cable from the battery directly to one of the transmission bolts and see if that fixes it. The FSM t/s guide for P0335 lists the starting circuit as a possible reason for this code.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK, new negative cable straight to transmission. Grounded knock sensor directly to battery. Engine spins better when cranking, but still won't turn over. I'm getting pissed. The CKPS code is gone, but the KS remains. Can a knock sensor failure prevent engine from turning over?

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

KS is not the reason it is not starting. What did you do to fix the CKPS code? Where did you ground the 2 sensor grounds that were on the 4th gen lower im?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

To fix the CKPS I put a washer under the sensor screw that mounts it to the oil pan. I think the code cleared because I replaced the negative battery terminal with a 2 ga wire grounded to the tranny directly. The FSM said the starting circuit could be the cause. The engine cranks faster so I think this cleared the crank sensor code.

However, I noticed while cranking it today that the RPM Gauge is not fluctuating like it should.

I also have 52 psi of fuel pressure supplied by the stock 4th pump in the stock 4th gen fpr with a T to a pos ebay fpr on the return line.

Is there a way to check the timing without removing the block?

timmay5835

iTrader: (14)

Have you checked for spark?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

I got a weak spark from #2, didn't check the rest. Assumed the rest were good. I did upgrade all plugs to ngk platinum. I will check the rest.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

Why are you putting a washer under the CKPS?? That makes the distance from the flywheel teeth even farther and magnetic fields diminish in strength not to the inverse square, but the inverse cube.

You don't need to remove the motor from the car to redo the cam timing.

Assuming you're getting spark, a timing light can verify that the cam/crank events occur at the right time. IIRC, you should be getting spark 15* or so BTDC.

You can also do a compression test. If cam timing is off, you can get weird compression readings that are low in both banks or normal in one bank but low in the other.

Another thing I would recommend is cleaning the cam sensor, but that's a low possibility of being the root cause of your problem.

Have you tried spraying starter fluid into the intake? Even if the sensors or wiring are bad, the engine should still start and run for a second or two by dieseling, assuming the cam timing and compression are good. I know from experience that these motors will start and run ok with a bad CKPS (REF), but only start with starter fluid.

If your cam timing is off and you spray starter fluid in it, it may run but run really crappy or backfire. Again, I know this from personal experience.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

I'll try the starter fluid today after work and re-do the compression test. I did a compression test on Friday and the results were somewhat worrying. I started with only 90psi in #1 and eventually reached 135psi after 3rd crank. The rest averaged 135-150psi. I am not very confident the test set that I borrowed from autozone was calibrated lately. I could not get the part that screws into the spark plug hole beyond hand tight as there was no socket that would fit around the fitting and go down into the hole. I'll buy a brand new one, they are only $25 and re-do the compression test if the starter fluid trick doesn't yield any positive results.

This may seem like a silly question, but to a noob novice it's not. If it diesels I'm guessing this means an issue with fuel delivery and hence injectors?

Is it possible to check the timing while cranking the engine?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

OK she runs with starter fluid!!! WOW how f*cking awesome! I'm really stoked now. Thanks for suggesting this WB, I've seen it posted many times but not sure why I never tried it. So what does it mean if she runs on starter fluid? There was a decent bit of valve rattle too, does that mean bad timing or just pulling oil in for the first time?

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

So it runs and idles indefinitely after using starter fluid? I had that exact same issue a few weeks ago and the problem was the wires going to the CKPS (REF) were broken in the harness. I cut, soldered, and heat-shrinked the wires in the harness and it started on the first compression stroke.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

No, it runs for a few seconds and then quits. I'm pretty sure the CKPS is working fine now, i back-stabbed the connector and read 2.4-2.5 VDC while cranking, and I think a stead 12VDC on the third wire? Anyways I took the washer out, the only reason I installed the washer in the first place was because there was a small bracket there before that I lost, so I assumed that the distance was critical and hence the washer in leu of the bracket.

Last time I checked, the injectors where clicking when listening through a Mech's stethescope so im baffled as to why she'll turn over with starter fluid but not with gasoline.

Is there a good way to test the injectors? The last time I pulled a spark plug, I couldn't smell any gas. I did verify 51psi at the stock 4th gen fpr. But I may have had the afpr connected backwards.

Is there anything unique about the 95 that I could be overlooking with this swap?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Pulled fuel rail, no signs of blockages. I was expecting to find more fuel, didn't seem like there was much on the ends of the injectors. Checked resistance, all have 15.1 Ohms. Disconnected number 6 and checked voltage while cranking, had 9.7 volts, so it looks like they are getting voltage to open the solenoids.

I'm really losing it here can anyone help me?

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

You need fuel, spark, air, and compression for a motor to run. Just because you have voltage at an injector, doesn't necessarily mean it's getting fuel or enough of it. If it's getting fuel, you should have fuel-soaked spark plugs. If you're getting tons of fuel, but no spark, you should be smelling fuel.

Also, if you take off the UIM and crank, you should see the fuel injectors spraying while cranking. If you want to be a little more cautious, take the front rail off and disconnect the electrical connector on 2/3 injectors and the connectors for the coil packs. See if the injector sprays fuel into a plastic bag. See EC-173 of the FSM.

To see if you're getting spark, all you need to do is remove a coil pack, put a spark plug in it, and ground out the spark plug.

96sleepergle

iTrader: (6)

Your fuel lines are backwards switch them the proper way this its the most over looked problem during a motor swap (CHECK YOUR FUEL LINES )!!!!

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

I think my problem is the opposite, besides if I had no spark it would not start with starter fluid would it?
Unless the return line has 51psi, I'm quite sure I have the fuel lines connected correctly.

I do appreciate the help though, I'm gonna do what WB suggested and pull the UIM and crank to see if the injectors are firing, I have my doubts.....
The problem must be between the stock 4th gen fpr and the injectors. I wonder if I should just go with two 3.5 fuel dampers with inputs, one for supply and the other for return. Dump the pos stock 3.0 fpr, the returnless set up and just use the dead end as the return. That ebay fpr is such a pos.

96sleepergle

iTrader: (6)

You dont check the return line thats for when the car is running you check the line going to the fuel pressure regulator , You sprayed starter fluid and it starts that tells you your getting spark, so its a fuel issue. The fuel line from the top of the filter should be where all the pressure should be before it gets to the injectors through the regulator to start the car (fuel pump pressure)

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

How does the return line have 51 psi if you are using the 4th gen fpr?

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

The return line has an ebay afpr in line between the t fitting and the return to tank. The 51psi was verified prior to the stock fpr at the fuel rail. My setup is included below: What should the afpr read with the 4th gen fpr?

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

I'd suggest removing the 4th gen FPR. Thats one thing that stands out about your setup that could be a potential problem. I used one my 00VI swap and had a starting issues. Once I switched to the 5th gen it was fine.

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

Also I'm running an ebay FPR on my 3.5 swap, I'll see if I can run home and snap a few pics of how it is setup during lunch today.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Just run one FPR.

Since you want 50psi, just run the ebay one.

Remminator

iTrader: (1)

Ok, sounds great, I really appreciate the help guys. Finding the OEM 3.5 damper seems to be a problem, none of the auto stores know wtf i'm talking about. Junkyards near me flease their 3.5s for sale immediately so there's slim pickings here. I will probably go to the dealer for one, trouble is I'm not sure which year my fuel rail is from lol. Isn't there a difference between the 02/03, and the 04-08? If anyone could point me in the right direction where to find this part, thanks.