Automatic-00vi's - Role Call -

[shadyonedeath]

I dont know if its just me but i seem to have lost the ability to chirp 2nd, which is leading me to believe my car is not performing as well as it did stock. It might be the VAFC's lack of proper fuel interpolation at lower throttle positions, but it just seems sluggish.

So far the only thing "wrong" with my car is the leaking passenger side axle seal. Its been leaking for a couple months now but nothing major, just a couple drops here and there on my driveway. I check the dip stick regularly and it never seems to drop believe standard ATF requirements.

-Knock sensor is good, its only a year old.
-Coils are good, i no longer get hesitation or hiccups after resurfacing the contact point to the spring.
-No vacuum leaks.

Maybe its my air filter? Although I clean it with a air compressor, its pretty old. Its one of those paper/orange ones with the metal frame.

Anyways, i only seem to get power once Open-loop beings. I remember have plenty of power before 3k rpm. Could the exhaust be the cause in loss of low end torque? Warpspeed y, 2.5" b pipe/catback and 5th gen muffler.



I know the only way to find out is to dyno but its not an option right now. Ill try and take a video from a dead stop and WOT, maybe you guys can tell me if its slow.

[97Maximus]

did you ever have the 2nd gear chirp? and now you dont? the sluggish feeling could be from a lack of proper tuning.. wish i could help.. i have about the same setup, but 5 spd.. and i have no low speed loss of torque.. actually i remember when i had my old setup (auto) there was no loss of low end torque either.. i mean in theory yeah it will be lower compared to the stock IM because of the shape of it.. but nothing sluggish, and i could always pull a 2nd gear chirp (even with new tires)..

[MoncefA33]

The exhaust won't hinder your low-end, you may wanna try re-tuning and seeing what happens.

[ajcool2]

Man you sound like me. I've basically pin-pointed my power loss to tuning. Before my swap I was trapping 92 in the 1/4 mile and my a/f was almost perfect at 13 without any tuning. Now I cant trap higher than 88. Then I pop a JWT ecu in and I'm trapping 92 again. Before my swap I dynoed 170hp@5250 then drops off to 120ish at redline. Then I dynoed once after my swap with a bad knock sensor(ftl) and got 159@5250 then it drops off to 130hp@redline. My a/f is sitting mostly at 12 and dips into the 11's around 4400. I made 3 runs that day after my swap and Jaypee99 made a few corrections with my VAFC-II and I ended up gaining a few hp up until my VI opened then none of his corrections would show. I think KRZZ350 experienced this recently with an auto that he dynoed. I still dont know what caused it. Just like you I thought it was my stock catback that was causing this but I remembered I had it on there when I was trapping 92 so it couldnt be that. Then maybe my VI wasnt working but I checked it all the time and it was. After seeing what the JWT did I was pretty much convinced my car needed to be tuned properly. I'm uploading both of my graphs just for comparison. I dont have my old run files so I cant change the correction factor on it.

Before:


After:

[MOHFpro90]

Try removing the power rod and tune it that way. Get it on a dyno as well.

[shadyonedeath]

Originally Posted by MOHFpro90

Try removing the power rod and tune it that way. Get it on a dyno as well.

what is it with you and removing the power rod? you two have an argument or something?


Im tuned around 13.0-13.5 and 12s after 5500rpm

[DAVE Sz]

I'm sorry but judging power or loss of it based on the inability to chirp a gear is just ridiculous. You could do it before and now you can't, it doesn't really mean much.
Since you said 00VI in title I'm assuming you're comparing DE manifold chirp to 00VI lack of chirp?
When your car shifts with the DE manifold, it shifts from a point of decreased power(high rpm on DE = falling power) to something like 4000rpm, almost peak torque with DE manifold. With the VI you're going from high power situation back to another high power situation. The sudden increase in power is what cause the tires to scream. Of course I could be wrong and my statement is as ridiculous as the basis of this whole thread. I'm just writing what my mind tells me is common sense.

[modenaf1]

First off, wow you were chirping 2nd with an automatic? I've got a 5sp with a good clutch and I barely chirp 2nd. Then again I'm at high altitude.

Second, I don't know if I would use that as the only thing to determine power. There are just too many variables. Tire grip, the condition of your suspension, your motor mounts, and even your transmission could all be factors that are keeping it from chirping.

Though, if you feel like it is losing power, I would definitely look into your AFR's and retune if necessary. I hear that if you tune with an AFC, it degrades over time as the computer adjusts for various things and you have to retune every now and then.

[MOHFpro90]

Originally Posted by shadyonedeath

what is it with you and removing the power rod? you two have an argument or something?

Im tuned around 13.0-13.5 and 12s after 5500rpm

Eliminate it as a problem, and you move on. Its super easy to eliminate as well

Originally Posted by DAVE Sz

I'm sorry but judging power or loss of it based on the inability to chirp a gear is just ridiculous. You could do it before and now you can't, it doesn't really mean much.
Since you said 00VI in title I'm assuming you're comparing DE manifold chirp to 00VI lack of chirp?
When your car shifts with the DE manifold, it shifts from a point of decreased power(high rpm on DE = falling power) to something like 4000rpm, almost peak torque with DE manifold. With the VI you're going from high power situation back to another high power situation. The sudden increase in power is what cause the tires to scream. Of course I could be wrong and my statement is as ridiculous as the basis of this whole thread. I'm just writing what my mind tells me is common sense.

Youre right. However, HP /= TQ. Torque is what breaks the tires loose, something that both manifolds dont have compared to the lower RPMs that you're shifting to.

But yes, the logic isnt great here, modena is right with all the factors coming into play.

[MoncefA33]

5spd swap.

My car loses grip after 4.5k in 1st (when rolling into it) and barks 2nd gear shift.

[shadyonedeath]

Here's the vid. Along with that videos Data log in 2nd gear.

[modenaf1]

Hmm, I'm by no means an expert at tuning, but I would say those spikes up to 14 are a bit lean. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the knock sensor is pulling ignition timing at an AFR that lean. The ECU is quick to pull timing, and slow to add it back if I recall correctly. This could be the problem or at least part of it.

[97Maximus]

ahh.. the knock sensor is possible.. but i would think that it would constantly have an effect not just spikes.. thats just my opinion.. not judging it out.. either way.. im assuming that was full throttle so.. from looking at your a/frs.. just like i said.. your tune is too lean on low end.. hence it feels sluggish.. the way i have mine setup up is 13-13.5 from ~4600 below and then ~12.5-13 from then up to rev limit.. and it pulls like a beast lol.. where is your activation point for the VI? it was hard to tell from the video, too much background noise

[ajcool2]

Shady does it chirp with the drop resister unplugged?

[shadyonedeath]

Originally Posted by 97Maximus

ahh.. the knock sensor is possible.. but i would think that it would constantly have an effect not just spikes.. thats just my opinion.. not judging it out.. either way.. im assuming that was full throttle so.. from looking at your a/frs.. just like i said.. your tune is too lean on low end.. hence it feels sluggish.. the way i have mine setup up is 13-13.5 from ~4600 below and then ~12.5-13 from then up to rev limit.. and it pulls like a beast lol.. where is your activation point for the VI? it was hard to tell from the video, too much background noise

5100rpms

Ill try that. I've noticed its more sensitive in the lower RPM points. Im going to concentrate more specific points in the low end rather than high. Get rid of some of those spikes which im assuming is the gap between points. (i.e. 3300-3500-3700.

Originally Posted by ajcool2

Shady does it chirp with the drop resister unplugged?

haven't touched it.

[ajcool2]

Originally Posted by shadyonedeath

haven't touched it.

Oh ok thats the only time my car ever chirps. My brothers car chirps without it.

[MOHFpro90]

You know... look at it this way:

With the USIM, your TQ level at redline is (lets call it) Y. The TQ level once you shift is X.

With the 00VI, your TQ level at redline is (lets call it) Z. The TQ level once you shift is theoretically similar, so lets continue to call it X.

So, X for the USIM and the 00VI are the same, meaning you have the same ammount of torque going into gear when you shift with either UIM. Now, I am willing to bet (but am too lazy to find the dyno's) that the 00VI has more redline torque (so, Z is greater than Y).

The difference between Y and X (USIM redline torque and into gear torque) is a greater difference than between Z and X (00VI redline torque and into gear torque).

Since the increase in torque is what causes the tires to lose traction, it could be that the larger difference in USIM torque caused the tire chirps.

[97Maximus]

Originally Posted by shadyonedeath

5100rpms

Ill try that. I've noticed its more sensitive in the lower RPM points. Im going to concentrate more specific points in the low end rather than high. Get rid of some of those spikes which im assuming is the gap between points. (i.e. 3300-3500-3700.



haven't touched it.

I remember a while back that there was an argument about where the best activation rpm was for the VI and if i remember right ~47-4800 was the best (using dyno testing).. i think 5100 is a little high.. i even think stock for a DEK is like 5K.. but to each his own.. its your car.. and also when i had my VI on an auto.. i had the DR mod done also.. so thats why i chirped the tires.. but like others have said.. thats a pointless topic for the argument of power loss.. but even so after looking at your a/f across the board i still think you have room for improvement with a more aggressive tune.. one thing at a time like you said.. interested to see what you think after you redo the low end tune