DE v DE-K
05-05-2009, 07:42 PM
#1
DE v DE-K
Besides the intake manifold and cams, what are the differences between the DE and the DE-K im trying to see if spending the extra $2-300 on another motor(blown head gasket) is really worth it when some of these 00vi swaps are going for around $150
). 
05-06-2009, 07:32 PM
#7
I wouldn't think the coolant log would do anything for power. Everything between the MAF and the heads is used in most 00vi swaps (TB, IACV, UIM LIM, fuel rail, injectors). Plus keeping the 4th gen cams which are more aggressive than the DEK. Not to mention the 4th gen ECU has more aggressive timing which is even further advanced when you tune for the larger injectors.
I'm not disputing your claim, I am just curious as to why a whole DEK swap makes more power.
05-06-2009, 09:07 PM
#9
The mounts are different.
The coolant log(as stated above) is different.
IIRC, the rod bolts were slightly different(or maybe it was the head bolts) but I remember something being slightly different in them.
Also, Im not sure if there is a KS mount, or not. I could go look at the block in my garage, but Im sure someone else could tell you before I could go find out...
The coolant log(as stated above) is different.
IIRC, the rod bolts were slightly different(or maybe it was the head bolts) but I remember something being slightly different in them.
Also, Im not sure if there is a KS mount, or not. I could go look at the block in my garage, but Im sure someone else could tell you before I could go find out...
05-06-2009, 09:07 PM
#10
so from what im hearing the DEK block has a better cooling system but the DE has more aggressive cams. but iirc doesnt the DEK have a more aggressive intake cam compared to the DEs?
05-06-2009, 09:28 PM
#11
man im lost in the sauce, i just dynoed my car, and from what the dyno is telling me, i made 20more hp at 4000rpm with the dek. with the DE motor, i was at 198whp, now my last dyno i'm at 218whp with the dek. at 5600 rpm, the DE falls on its face, the dek keeps making power to redline. thats proof enough for me that swapping the dek was worth it, and im still not done with tmy project. now about cams, i thought the DEk were more aggressive, but i heard the DEk injectors flow the most, even more than the 3.5.
05-06-2009, 10:12 PM
#12
From http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...-cam-data.html
Engine: VQ30DE
Model Years: 1995-1999 (Maxima/ '96+ I30)
Intake__Lift: 8.55mm
Exhaust_Lift: 8.55mm
Intake__Duration: 232º
Exhaust_Duration: 232º
Intake_Opens: 3º BTDC
Intake_Closes: 49º ABDC
Exhaust_Opens: 49º BBDC
Exhaust_Closes: 3º ATDC
Overlap: 6º
-------------------------------------
Engine: VQ30DE (K)
Model Years: 2000-2001 (Maxima/I30)
Intake__Lift: 8.55mm
Exhaust_Lift: 9.0mm
Intake__Duration: 224º
Exhaust_Duration: 232º
Intake_Opens: 3º BTDC
Intake_Closes: 41º ABDC
Exhaust_Opens: 49º BBDC
Exhaust_Closes: 3º ATDC
Overlap: 6º
Engine: VQ30DE
Model Years: 1995-1999 (Maxima/ '96+ I30)
Intake__Lift: 8.55mm
Exhaust_Lift: 8.55mm
Intake__Duration: 232º
Exhaust_Duration: 232º
Intake_Opens: 3º BTDC
Intake_Closes: 49º ABDC
Exhaust_Opens: 49º BBDC
Exhaust_Closes: 3º ATDC
Overlap: 6º
-------------------------------------
Engine: VQ30DE (K)
Model Years: 2000-2001 (Maxima/I30)
Intake__Lift: 8.55mm
Exhaust_Lift: 9.0mm
Intake__Duration: 224º
Exhaust_Duration: 232º
Intake_Opens: 3º BTDC
Intake_Closes: 41º ABDC
Exhaust_Opens: 49º BBDC
Exhaust_Closes: 3º ATDC
Overlap: 6º
05-07-2009, 05:01 PM
#14
The mounts are different.
The coolant log(as stated above) is different.
IIRC, the rod bolts were slightly different(or maybe it was the head bolts) but I remember something being slightly different in them.
Also, Im not sure if there is a KS mount, or not. I could go look at the block in my garage, but Im sure someone else could tell you before I could go find out...
The coolant log(as stated above) is different.
IIRC, the rod bolts were slightly different(or maybe it was the head bolts) but I remember something being slightly different in them.
Also, Im not sure if there is a KS mount, or not. I could go look at the block in my garage, but Im sure someone else could tell you before I could go find out...
Im 99 percent sure that there is a ks mount and is pretty much simillar to the vq30. The only diffrence iirc is the harness and the ks it self(probley updated cause of all the ones that go bad on the 4th gen)
I dont remember the mounts being diffrent. but then again when i bought my motor i didnt get the bottom mounts. Are they just diffrent in design?
05-07-2009, 05:40 PM
#15
The DE has 8 more degrees of duration for the intake cam (open longer)
The DE-K has just a little more lift on the rear cam
05-07-2009, 05:57 PM
#16
man im lost in the sauce, i just dynoed my car, and from what the dyno is telling me, i made 20more hp at 4000rpm with the dek. with the DE motor, i was at 198whp, now my last dyno i'm at 218whp with the dek. at 5600 rpm, the DE falls on its face, the dek keeps making power to redline. thats proof enough for me that swapping the dek was worth it, and im still not done with tmy project. now about cams, i thought the DEk were more aggressive, but i heard the DEk injectors flow the most, even more than the 3.5.
05-07-2009, 06:32 PM
#17
The wrist pin on the DEK are 1 mm bigger and off the center wich create less piston flapping thus creating less friction and wear on the cylinder wall.
BTW I have a bunch of brand new parts to build a DE engine if anyone interested just drop me a pm and I'll make you a hek of a deal.
BTW I have a bunch of brand new parts to build a DE engine if anyone interested just drop me a pm and I'll make you a hek of a deal.
05-07-2009, 08:44 PM
#18
so are you saying a DE with 00VI will give you more power that a dek?. i mean if nothing is wrong with your motor, by all means slap a 00VI on it, but i dont thinnk a DE, or one with the VI gives more power than the DEk, now the DEk does not give a whole lot more power, but it still is a little more powerful. 'cause i have never heard of someone puttin back a regular DE with00VI, they usually do DEK, or 3.5, unless they are not into performance and just want their car to run again.
05-07-2009, 08:50 PM
#19
so are you saying a DE with 00VI will give you more power that a dek?. i mean if nothing is wrong with your motor, by all means slap a 00VI on it, but i dont thinnk a DE, or one with the VI gives more power than the DEk, now the DEk does not give a whole lot more power, but it still is a little more powerful. 'cause i have never heard of someone puttin back a regular DE with00VI, they usually do DEK, or 3.5, unless they are not into performance and just want their car to run again.
This thread is really specifically about the DE-K vs the DE except for the manifolds. If you 00VI the DE, then the dynos are a relatively accurate comparison. If not...it's just common sense that you'll make more power with a stock DE-K than with a stock DE.
There's nothing wrong with running an 00VI'd DE, it's a lot less work than swapping in a DE-K (for most people, anyway). I'd venture to guess that 90% of A32s on the org that have an 00VI have it on top of a DE, and didn't swap in a whole DE-K.
05-07-2009, 09:12 PM
#20
No, I'm saying with your dyno comparisons. You say the DE fell dead after ~5600 RPM, which isn't indicative of having an 00VI.
This thread is really specifically about the DE-K vs the DE except for the manifolds. If you 00VI the DE, then the dynos are a relatively accurate comparison. If not...it's just common sense that you'll make more power with a stock DE-K than with a stock DE.
There's nothing wrong with running an 00VI'd DE, it's a lot less work than swapping in a DE-K (for most people, anyway). I'd venture to guess that 90% of A32s on the org that have an 00VI have it on top of a DE, and didn't swap in a whole DE-K.
This thread is really specifically about the DE-K vs the DE except for the manifolds. If you 00VI the DE, then the dynos are a relatively accurate comparison. If not...it's just common sense that you'll make more power with a stock DE-K than with a stock DE.
There's nothing wrong with running an 00VI'd DE, it's a lot less work than swapping in a DE-K (for most people, anyway). I'd venture to guess that 90% of A32s on the org that have an 00VI have it on top of a DE, and didn't swap in a whole DE-K.
Last edited by JAMAICANLOVRBOY; 05-07-2009 at 09:14 PM.
05-07-2009, 09:13 PM
#21
I've got plans, but then doesn't everyone?
05-07-2009, 09:21 PM
#22
05-07-2009, 09:22 PM
#23
05-08-2009, 03:41 AM
#25
05-08-2009, 09:01 AM
#26
k how does this sound, 350z Nismo cams in a DE w/ an 00vi. I was talking to a friend of mine last night and he has an set and next time he is up around the shop if he can find them laying around i can have them. I need to find out the particulars on those cams but i know they are def. more aggressive than any stock cams.
05-08-2009, 09:42 AM
#28
05-08-2009, 11:22 PM
#30
Id say, go with w/e motor you find cheapest and healthiest. If your motor is good (minimal blow by, and good compression), then just change the head gasket. is not as hard as one thinks once u actually do it. saves you a few hundred bucks. Now if a swap is a must, then get w/e is cheaper, if u get a DE, put the 00vi on it.
05-09-2009, 10:08 AM
#31
the head gasket is blown and the motor is still pulling hard, i shouldnt be driving it but i have no choice but to drive it until the semester is finished which will be on monday. then i dont have to depend on that car for the rest of the summer. Once the semester is done i will do a compression test and see which side blew and then go ahead and pull the motor out and replace the gaskets. This is one of those times when u wish the VQs had timing belts instead of chains thou.
05-09-2009, 04:00 PM
#32
the head gasket is blown and the motor is still pulling hard, i shouldnt be driving it but i have no choice but to drive it until the semester is finished which will be on monday. then i dont have to depend on that car for the rest of the summer. Once the semester is done i will do a compression test and see which side blew and then go ahead and pull the motor out and replace the gaskets. This is one of those times when u wish the VQs had timing belts instead of chains thou.
05-09-2009, 04:15 PM
#33
I had blown/leaking head gasket for a couple of years, even dyno'ed 312whp at 10psi while it was still leaking. I would occasionally blow up radiator hoses from the pressure. As long as your compression is good, and you have minimal blow by, just change the head gasket (change both!!!!), its a complete waste doing all the work to change one gasket, just dosnt make sense. I put stock gasket back on, put up the boost to 15psi and was terrorizing the streets for a while lol, till my blowby(which i always had alot) got worse, but i knew that was coming eventually. and plus, its a learning experience changing the HG. do it!
BTW just did some reading on the specs of the Nismo cams(R-tunes) i might be getting, they are slightly more aggressive then the S1 cams Dandymax put in the DEK, 262 vs 260, the lift is almost identical. I hope my friend finds those cams
05-11-2009, 05:40 AM
#35
No. Especially not the VQ30s, honestly it's very uncommon to find them with a blown HG.
05-11-2009, 04:01 PM
#36
man im lost in the sauce, i just dynoed my car, and from what the dyno is telling me, i made 20more hp at 4000rpm with the dek. with the DE motor, i was at 198whp, now my last dyno i'm at 218whp with the dek. at 5600 rpm, the DE falls on its face, the dek keeps making power to redline. thats proof enough for me that swapping the dek was worth it, and im still not done with tmy project. now about cams, i thought the DEk were more aggressive, but i heard the DEk injectors flow the most, even more than the 3.5.
I hade about everymod with a *** * load of timing and only made 195whp on my dek
05-12-2009, 07:49 AM
#37
Anybody know the prices on HR valve springs, Head studs and Oil pump. i obviously need the valve springs, if i want to do any kind of aftermarket cams, the oil pump because the motor is already out. Head studs can wait for a little i can change those at anytime really
05-12-2009, 10:44 AM
#39
IIRC the r-tunes are 262/256 compared to 260/260 for the S1's. The S1's are generally regarded as the more aggressive grind in the 350z community. There's more to cam specs than advertised lift and duration.
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
#40
I figured S1s would be considered mild...especially when there are things out there like the 280 cams from Tomei, etc.