Add-to-sticky Request
04-20-2009, 08:35 AM
#1
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
Add-to-sticky Request
Request to add to stickies - this NEEDS to be said once and for all:
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
Reset your ECU and drive it around for a few hundred miles. And use 91-94 octane.
I should also mention that you should have at least a wideband to check your AFR before you do this. I would tune rich, 12-12.5:1.
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
Reset your ECU and drive it around for a few hundred miles. And use 91-94 octane.
I should also mention that you should have at least a wideband to check your AFR before you do this. I would tune rich, 12-12.5:1.
Last edited by JClaw; 05-09-2009 at 06:44 PM.
04-20-2009, 08:43 AM
#3
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
After four or five swaps I am officially fed up with the KS. Now with 200 pounds removed the car has a gigantic pair of *****. 
Last edited by JClaw; 04-20-2009 at 08:47 AM.
04-20-2009, 09:11 AM
#4
Request to add to stickies - this NEEDS to be said once and for all:
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
Also, does this help with random ks codes or just help in an overall performance upgrade? What i mean is, if im running 13.2 with no KS code, and do this "mod" i would get my lowend-midrange power slightly boosted therefore resulting in lower e.t's/more power?
Last edited by ghostmax301; 04-20-2009 at 09:13 AM.
04-20-2009, 10:03 AM
#5
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
so let me get this correct, do we take the knock sensor completely out with the harness still attached and ground it(the knock sensor or the 1 wire going to it) directly to the negative terminal?
Also, does this help with random ks codes or just help in an overall performance upgrade? What i mean is, if im running 13.2 with no KS code, and do this "mod" i would get my lowend-midrange power slightly boosted therefore resulting in lower e.t's/more power?
Also, does this help with random ks codes or just help in an overall performance upgrade? What i mean is, if im running 13.2 with no KS code, and do this "mod" i would get my lowend-midrange power slightly boosted therefore resulting in lower e.t's/more power?
If you are running 13.2 with no KS code (the ECU can pull timing without a code - I had no KS code but it was inconsistant), your timing is fine.
What this does is add consistancy. It will give full timing not 50 or 80 or 90% of the time - it will give you 100% timing all the time. All you have to do is make sure you use good gas - 91 octane or higher. These swaps already run very rich on the stock ECU so you dont have to worry about running lean.
04-20-2009, 10:19 AM
#6
You take out your knock sensor with the harness still attached, and instead of sitting on the engine block, the knock sensor sits on the negative pole of the battery
If you are running 13.2 with no KS code (the ECU can pull timing without a code - I had no KS code but it was inconsistant), your timing is fine.
What this does is add consistancy. It will give full timing not 50 or 80 or 90% of the time - it will give you 100% timing all the time. All you have to do is make sure you use good gas - 91 octane or higher. These swaps already run very rich on the stock ECU so you dont have to worry about running lean.
If you are running 13.2 with no KS code (the ECU can pull timing without a code - I had no KS code but it was inconsistant), your timing is fine.
What this does is add consistancy. It will give full timing not 50 or 80 or 90% of the time - it will give you 100% timing all the time. All you have to do is make sure you use good gas - 91 octane or higher. These swaps already run very rich on the stock ECU so you dont have to worry about running lean.
04-20-2009, 10:42 AM
#7
Or we could just do the resistor mod and get rid of the sensor all together.
Jclaw, what do you mean by inconsistent timing? How much fluctuation are you seeing in terms of degrees of advance? Are you seeing this only in open loop or in closed loop too?
Jclaw, what do you mean by inconsistent timing? How much fluctuation are you seeing in terms of degrees of advance? Are you seeing this only in open loop or in closed loop too?
04-20-2009, 10:59 AM
#8
04-20-2009, 01:14 PM
#11
Yeah same... just had NWP thermo gaskets put in and need to know whats up with the KS..... think I want to do the resistor cuz I'm not even sure that the ks is operational right now.
04-20-2009, 02:31 PM
#12
Request to add to stickies - this NEEDS to be said once and for all:
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
All 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
Jime has been running +10-15 degrees timing advance with a grounded knock sensor for like 2 years now. Just do it already. These swaps are no fun with on/off timing. The 4th gen knock sensor does not like the thinner cylinder walls of the VQ35, and the 3.5 knock sensor does not like the 4th gen ECU so just take out the knock sensor, and bolt it to the negative pole of your battery. FU you touchy sensible piece of sh-
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
04-20-2009, 02:38 PM
#13
What value? The FSM lists both VQ30/VQ35 KS as 500-620kΩ when good, but the most common value to use is 470kΩ for whatever reason.
04-20-2009, 04:17 PM
#15
04-20-2009, 07:04 PM
#16
Mmmmm, I have a extra ks and harness maybe I leave one in the engine and one on the battery and test it but ways and see what happens
The only thing is my car is tuned to 13.1-13.3 a/f and I would not feel safe DD'ing the car like this but seems to be a great track mod
The only thing is my car is tuned to 13.1-13.3 a/f and I would not feel safe DD'ing the car like this but seems to be a great track mod
04-21-2009, 10:57 AM
#17
I don't understand how grounding the KS directly to the battery will help much. The knock sensor has ~470k of resistance which makes the engine ground resistance of 0.1 completely meaningless compared to a 0.05 ohm of say a 14 ga. ground wire to the battery.
Are you saying that the 3.0 KS should NOT be used with the 3.5 because of the thinner cylinder walls? Maybe I should just do the dam* resistor mod.
My timing does suck, but I've tried two knock sensors, including a brand new one.
If the cylinder walls are thinner and thus causing more noise and vibration which the KS interprets as knock, maybe dampening the KS with a neoprene or nylon washer might help while retaining some of the knock sensing capability.
Are you saying that the 3.0 KS should NOT be used with the 3.5 because of the thinner cylinder walls? Maybe I should just do the dam* resistor mod.
My timing does suck, but I've tried two knock sensors, including a brand new one.
If the cylinder walls are thinner and thus causing more noise and vibration which the KS interprets as knock, maybe dampening the KS with a neoprene or nylon washer might help while retaining some of the knock sensing capability.
Last edited by Weimar Ben; 04-21-2009 at 11:08 AM.
04-21-2009, 01:13 PM
#18
jclaw what tuning device do you use to monitor the timing? I dont know if I can tell when/if my timing is inconsistent like you are saying it should be. I need to get something to monitor it ...
Even with consistent 3.0 timing its still not optimal for the 3.5, right?
i need control of my frickin timing already
Even with consistent 3.0 timing its still not optimal for the 3.5, right?
i need control of my frickin timing already
04-21-2009, 02:39 PM
#19
jclaw what tuning device do you use to monitor the timing? I dont know if I can tell when/if my timing is inconsistent like you are saying it should be. I need to get something to monitor it ...
Even with consistent 3.0 timing its still not optimal for the 3.5, right?
i need control of my frickin timing already
Even with consistent 3.0 timing its still not optimal for the 3.5, right?
i need control of my frickin timing already
04-21-2009, 06:53 PM
#21
I'm also curious if the cars jclaw says he experienced this on threw codes or not for the KS. Mine never has.
Last edited by chillin014; 04-21-2009 at 06:57 PM.
04-21-2009, 07:03 PM
#22
or maybe it just has to do with heat
04-21-2009, 08:59 PM
#23
04-22-2009, 07:46 AM
#26
04-22-2009, 07:51 AM
#27
actually I have a wb02 w/ gauge hooked up 24/7 so I can see if its running lean....which is usually when knocking starts, yeah?
04-22-2009, 02:09 PM
#28
He is on the same path
Good info jclaw Check out what this guy has to say
Last paragraph
http://forums.maxima.org/6995223-post115.html
Im not sure when I will have a EU installed so, we need a EU owner (timing datalog) to step up & test out this theory.
also keep in mind most people (me)
dont tq the knock sensor bolt..
Last paragraph
http://forums.maxima.org/6995223-post115.html
Im not sure when I will have a EU installed so, we need a EU owner (timing datalog) to step up & test out this theory.
also keep in mind most people (me)
dont tq the knock sensor bolt..
04-22-2009, 07:33 PM
#29
Good info jclaw Check out what this guy has to say
Last paragraph
http://forums.maxima.org/6995223-post115.html
Im not sure when I will have a EU installed so, we need a EU owner (timing datalog) to step up & test out this theory.
also keep in mind most people (me) dont tq the knock sensor bolt..
Last paragraph
http://forums.maxima.org/6995223-post115.html
Im not sure when I will have a EU installed so, we need a EU owner (timing datalog) to step up & test out this theory.
also keep in mind most people (me)
dont tq the knock sensor bolt..
04-22-2009, 08:06 PM
#30
that was a confusing post. you said it did nothing, and then you said it did as much as advance 13 degrees. I believe you proved jclaws point about consistency..I dont think he was saying it was going to increase timing more than the ECU would allow, just that it would keep it at as high as it would go. Does the car feel considerably better?
04-22-2009, 09:29 PM
#31
I'm convinced that even 87 octane with the 3.5 motor might be able to use full timing with the 3.0 ECU. I've been using 87 octane during the last tank, with a functional knock sensor, and I'm getting 40-44* of advance at cruising speed on the FWY and low 20's at WOT at high RPMs.
04-23-2009, 04:55 AM
#32
that was a confusing post. you said it did nothing, and then you said it did as much as advance 13 degrees. I believe you proved jclaws point about consistency..I dont think he was saying it was going to increase timing more than the ECU would allow, just that it would keep it at as high as it would go. Does the car feel considerably better?
The difference isnt going to be night and day if you're already running near full timing to begin with. But I'm sure you're going to see a huge difference if your WOT timing is in the 15* and this mod takes it back to mid to high 20s. The biggest thing I noticed was throttle response. Power comes in much smoother.
Last edited by whlimi; 04-23-2009 at 04:59 AM.
04-23-2009, 05:05 AM
#33
I'm convinced that even 87 octane with the 3.5 motor might be able to use full timing with the 3.0 ECU. I've been using 87 octane during the last tank, with a functional knock sensor, and I'm getting 40-44* of advance at cruising speed on the FWY and low 20's at WOT at high RPMs.
And is that 40-44* with very light throttle? Say ~ 5% or less?
I only see 40s when I'm below 5% throttle on the Hwy and above that it's low to high 30s.
04-23-2009, 07:11 AM
#34
I never said IT advanced my timing. The EU has advanced my timing. I was just saying that I'm not too concerned with running without a KS even though in some parts of my map I have advanced the ignition timing by as much as 13*.
The difference isnt going to be night and day if you're already running near full timing to begin with. But I'm sure you're going to see a huge difference if your WOT timing is in the 15* and this mod takes it back to mid to high 20s. The biggest thing I noticed was throttle response. Power comes in much smoother.
The difference isnt going to be night and day if you're already running near full timing to begin with. But I'm sure you're going to see a huge difference if your WOT timing is in the 15* and this mod takes it back to mid to high 20s. The biggest thing I noticed was throttle response. Power comes in much smoother.
04-23-2009, 07:32 AM
#35
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...g-advance.html
There's some info in that thread as well as links to threads with really good discussions about ignition advance.
The 13* isnt across the board, just between 3k-4k rpm. For the most part, i've added between 8-10 degrees for the rest of the map at WOT. Unfortunately I do not have a before and after dyno and I've ran it like this for the past 7 months so I dont really remember how it ran before the timing advance. I'm seeing total advance in the mid to high 30s in the higher RPMs.
There's some info in that thread as well as links to threads with really good discussions about ignition advance.
The 13* isnt across the board, just between 3k-4k rpm. For the most part, i've added between 8-10 degrees for the rest of the map at WOT. Unfortunately I do not have a before and after dyno and I've ran it like this for the past 7 months so I dont really remember how it ran before the timing advance. I'm seeing total advance in the mid to high 30s in the higher RPMs.
04-23-2009, 06:23 PM
#36
I could be wrong but your ECU might be pulling timing at WOT. I logged between 27-31* of advance at high RPMs before adding any advance with the EU.
And is that 40-44* with very light throttle? Say ~ 5% or less?
I only see 40s when I'm below 5% throttle on the Hwy and above that it's low to high 30s.
And is that 40-44* with very light throttle? Say ~ 5% or less?
I only see 40s when I'm below 5% throttle on the Hwy and above that it's low to high 30s.
Yes, the 40-40* of advance is with light throttle, under 10%. It seems that the 3.0 ECU with the 5spd really likes 55-65mph. That's when you get maximum timing advance. I tried at 80mph and timing advance was down to the low 30s. I drove a couple hundred miles once at 60mph and got just under 30mpg.
04-24-2009, 07:15 PM
#38
what about using just a regular metal washer w\ a longer bolt?
to bad i dont have my 3.5 in so i can do comparisons with the data logger
I could if im feeling ambitious i could do a test on the 3.0. I dont know if it would do any good it would do though.
Last edited by Product_Of_Korea; 04-24-2009 at 07:27 PM.
04-24-2009, 07:33 PM
#39
This one of the HUGE benefits of the UTEC. Total control of the KS at all RPM/Load levels.
However I still use my fender well KS while racing, because I don't want my timing pulled no matter what. Using the KS is for tuning not for racing. If you haven't got your timing set properly while tuning, you shouldn't be racing.
However I still use my fender well KS while racing, because I don't want my timing pulled no matter what. Using the KS is for tuning not for racing. If you haven't got your timing set properly while tuning, you shouldn't be racing.
04-24-2009, 07:46 PM
#40
You dont have to ground it to the battery post. Anywhere is fine as long as its off the block and properly grounded. I have a grounding kit so I just ran a ground wire to the ks and secured it with a nut and a bolt.