KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Update: Make sure you have some vq30 intake cam bolts handy to use on the rev-up exhaust cams.








Timing guy says hello

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

Good info. You didnt find this out the hard way did you?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Interesting.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

No, thank god, well I mean yes, I found out the hard way as in I found out I needed them. But the REAL hard way would have been if the stock bolts had threaded in far enough to be installed and block the oil passage and I hadn't noticed.

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Thanks for the heads up
Post pics when you get a chance.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Rev up cams you say ? subscribing...

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I don't get it, I absolutely don't ****ing get it. Unless Fast is wrong (Big ups to Dave B, he is the MAN, helped me confirm my dealers part #)

But unless fast is wrong....... I'm seeing a huge problem here. I'm sitting here with pics of the lubrication circuits for both rev-ups and regular VQ35de's in my lap and here's the problem......

On regular 3.5's oil comes up through the #1 cam journal, where it is fed inside of the camshaft to lubricate the rest of the cam journals. On a regular 3.5 all is fine and dandy, because the feed holes from that number 1 journal are after the sprocket bolt, allowing the camshaft to be filled with oil. Now, on the rev-ups, it is exactly the same asides from the additional branch to lubricate the exhaust vtc.

Now, the problem is, the feed holes on the rev-up cams are before the threads, so in order to feed the rest of the cam journals either A: the bolt must contain oil passages. or B: there must be a secret oil passage inside the camshaft somewhere that bypasse the threads. This sucks. I'll try to draw out what I am talking about. Right now I'm semi ****ed, allthough I did manage to find out that a bolt I have, which I beleive is an intake cam sprocket bolt from a 3.0, is perfect length! minus the lubrication problem.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

I'm assuming you haven't received the RU exhaust sprocket bolts yet...?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

He called me up at work, apparently the same as the intake bolts.

In any case like I said on the phone, :

But now that I see it in writing I know exactly what you mean, I'll see what I can find out.

Honestly, easiest way of checking: bottom out the bolt in the cam (out of the car), then compressed air, brake parts cleaner, something through the feed in the number one journal, see if you get anything out of the other oiling holes. That's what I'd do if I was wondering, personally.

Name's Paul, btw.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Update. So here's the kicker (good suggestion Paul, Me and my landlord were discussing that earlier) Anyways, wow, ****ing FSM FTL. I hope anyways :Hide: Anyways, it appears that the FSM isn't correct, the #1 cam journal has an oil passage leading up to it, it lubricates itself. The #2 cam bearing journal ALSO has an oil passage leading up to it, and that one runs through the cam and feeds 3 & 4, if you look at a #2 cam bearing cap or can remember, this is the one that has a little extra flange coming off of it, not shaped symetrical like the 3 & 4 (I know, there not sym at all ) The #1 also has these passages, yet according to the FSM's for both ru, regular 3.5, as well as 3.0 this passage doesn't exist and the chart says #1 journal feeds 2-3-4.

So, hopefully all goes well tommorrow morning, covers are all buttoned up and sitting for the night, I'll have a little work ahead of me and than I will fire it up, looking forward to taking it for a spin

Now, on to the bolt situation, since I still had one, albeit much more minor.... Intake cam bolts from a VQ30 are the PERFECT dimensions

nismology

iTrader: (8)

That's great news!




Now only to determine what the exhaust cam timing is gonna be.....

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Added some pictars, not that it really matters now.

Dyno's will be added in a week or two when the after runs are completed, but a full ssim was done at the same time so it will be hard to discern the total gains from just these.

Impressions: Obviously, it screams. It pulls really REALLY hard at redline, but this is a no-brainer. Clearly, especially since the exhaust opens 18* earlier and closes 10* sooner, something other than just the catman cat-back is needed, so the results might be anemic compared to what they will show three weeks from now when the car get's some ported 3.0 cast manifolds and e-bay y-pipe put on it. The owner, who is also a mechanic and attended uti is all about the 3.0 manifolds, not only for the heat retention helping flow, but also because high-rpm power is what he is after and the shorty headers fit that bill a little better than long-tubes. Engine management will come down the road, but rest assured the rev-limiter will be raised eventually.

Also, for those that don't know, here's the most notable differences in these cams:

1mm increased lift, 2* additional overlap for a total of 4* durations are 248/248 vs stock which is 240 intake & 238 exhaust. Granted they aren't anything special compared to aftermarkets which tend to run 2.5mm extra lift and 260+ durations, but still.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

We still don't know what the exhaust cam timing is because we don't know when the magnetic retarders do what.


And I'll save my opinion regarding the stock manifolds as it isn't germane to this discussion.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I am kevlo and I approve of the pics in this thread

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

nice find , cant wait for some dynos.

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Class is in session...

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I am KRRZ350, and unlike you I needed 2 breaker bars........



True, my geuss though is that (intake valve timing control - Off) implies that the exhaust specs given would be set like that as well and the result of not having the retarders on there would leave them at that spec all the time, but very true and unfortunatly I don't think we will know any time soon.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

I used to do that, then I just started to use an impact on the cam bolts. Sure, you can crack them...supposedly. There are also a lot of other things you 'shouldn't' do, like placing a battery directly on a concrete floor (bah).

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

For the intakes it was fine, but on the exhaust bolts I had my gun going "bam bam bam bam bam" FOREVER. I wouldn't use them to loosen cam bolts if the cam's were staying though, and I DEF wouldn't use them for tightening. I had a VQ cam break on my 3.5, I'm fairly certain it was from the accident though, because it broke exactly where the front valve cover was shattered, but I will never know, it took out the #1 cam journal, gouged the cover & secondary tensioner, and warped the sprocket. Didn't bend a single valve though And I did have the sprockets on and off several times because of the 200k tensioner jumping timing incident.

allblackmax96

iTrader: (4)

just wanted to give my 2 cents on the setup (since its my car). screamer, haha. it feels like it wants to just keep going right past redline. i personally don't feel much low end torque loss (from the butt dyno, we shall see what happens on the dynojet), hopefully if all goes well i can get it on the dyno this week or the following. ill post the runs as soon as i get them.

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

Very Good Job...

I've installed the first set of 350zRev-up cams in a 3.5L swap for somebody on NYCMaximas.org

I was gonna post that you DON'T have to worry about the oil passages (at least on a 3.5L)... I also used the VQ30 Cam Bolts, instead of the VQ35. 22mm head seems much sturdier, and was meant to use with the 3.0L timing (maybe acts as balancer, who knows)

you just have to be sure you set the cam spacer timing right.

I used the Cyl1 TDC and I rotated and lined up the intake + exhaust cam lobes (Lobe separation angle?) to get it right then marked the actual location of the necessary timing dowel relocation.

here's a pic of them installed (note: dual VTC intake + exhaust ring for cam sensors)



Cyl1 LSA


just wanted to share my findings since we're on the topic, and I've done it already..

Good Job

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Viper ,any dynos with the revup cams ?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

They're not that much more aggressive. The thing that makes them 'cool' is the fact that they have CVTC on the ex. cam too.

I wonder what their lift is at .050".

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

If only I had known this a few days ago Congrats as well, I thought I was the first, good info no doubt and it sounds like you also saw the oil passages and differences at first as well. Agreed about bolts being much more sturdy in appearance, I also like that they have a seperate washer instead of a large flange head, I think that they used such a small head though on the certain 3.5 ones just to fit it into the cvct's.

But I would like further details or enlightenment, did you use a degree wheel, if so what method did you use for finding true tdc? Or if what I'm thinking it sounds like, did you somehow calculate exactly when both intake & exhaust were pointing at eachother at the same angle and go from there, if so how did you measure that they were spot on with eachother? A measurment of the heads or lifters, or did you degree them by putting a degree wheel on each one and using the very beginning of the ramp (by measuring clearance) as the basis for setting a pointer and than turning them, because they are still on the base circle at the point when they point to eachother.

AFAIK lobe seperation angle is the difference from the centerline between the exhaust vs intakes lobes, on cams that have them on one cam, but I know the same would apply to seperate doc motors I'm just not sure how that is figured or represented, since it can vary depending on the alignment of the secondary chains/sprockets.

But they don't for us, unless you want to get v-manage and deal with the mount issue that would arise from using a rwd cover, I don't ever see that happening though that's for sure. And yes, agreed, they are not that much more aggressive, but nonetheless they do have there merits, only a hint of change at idle that's actually borderline being my imagination though.

I think you meant duation at .050" lift, but I geuss the better question is are nissans cam specs at .000" or ,050", I would geuss it's at .000" right at the beginning of the ramp,I can't picture them advertising there .050" durations. Either way these cams aren't anything special enough to warrant me to look into this further.

ghostmax301

iTrader: (7)

not sure if i missed it but what were the specs on these cams?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

.

ghostmax301

iTrader: (7)

hmmm.those are pretty darn close to JWTs S1 cam with a 10.9/10.9mm lift and 260/260 deg duration

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Not quite. Not really close at all. You have to think of these as stock replacements and nothing more. There's more to cams than just advertised duration and lift numbers.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

slightly better stock replacements.

But lift and duration are two very key components, more lift FTW, and the time the valves are opened has a very direct effect on where in the rev range power will be made. You can get technical all you want, but you can't refute that.

ghostmax301

iTrader: (7)

that's a good point..learned something new today

nismology

iTrader: (8)

True. I meant to say "you can't think of them in terms of aftermarket cams".

My point was that lift and duration alone says nothing about how a cam will perform ultimately. Sure more lift/duration = more power in simple terms, but there's no real way to know exactly how much until you look at everything else. Two sets of cams with identical "specs" can and will perform VERY differently depending on a few important variables.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Since you're on the subject. . .

Blackmax1924

iTrader: (7)

very smooth...but yes please go on nismology and krrz350

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

You have to consider lobe profile also besides advertised lift and duration numbers: dwell over the nose, ramp rate etc. Looking at the .050" durations will tell you more than the advertised numbers, and can give a bit of a clue about the aggressiveness of the profile.

And that's just the cam itself, looking at how a cam will perform in an engine then the intake manifold and exhaust header setups become key components, not just from a flow perspective but a resonance tuning perspective, and then there's also the consideration of the style of head (high flow, ported vs restrictive OEM or what have you) and dynamic compression ratios etc. Lots of things. And all of these together will influence where the optimal cam timing should be, and will significantly affect the shape of the powerband, it's all interconnected.

My view is that if you want to build a highly performing engine, you have to consider the system as a whole, in light of the goal for the powerband you desire, and carefully consider how each piece will fit the whole puzzle. If you only consider pieces individually you won't necessarily get the optimum, even if you see some improvements. Power is in the details.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I just want to reiterate as well that it would be unwise to install these cams just for the sake of installing them, I've since had to talk 2 local members out of having me install these cams. The reason they were done on this car was because a couple lifters got smoked during a few trips on the redline express 75 shot fun go 'round.

allblackmax96

iTrader: (4)

the reason they were done was not because of nitrous, i put up a thread http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...fter-tick.html and posted a video of my lifter tick well before i had nitrous, as dumb as it may make me look for adding nitrous to a ticking engine, i had planned to run the motor to the ground and just replace it. but i ending up talking to kevin and he gave me an offer i couldnt refuse to get lifters replaced and the rev up cams were available and my cams were pretty worn. i believe i had the lifter ticking becuase i put some fresh mobile-1 in, ran a dyno run right after the oil change, and then a week later made 12 hot laps at New England Dragway, while never checking my oil (my 3.0 never burned oil, so i never even thought about it). when i showed up to work, a friend of my said your cars ticking and i was 2 quarts low, just wanted to clear that up.

after driving around with these cams for acouple weeks, its hard to say how much ive really gained, it feels like it pulls harder to redline,but it could be the ssim, i talked to my old instructor from UTI and i should be able to get on the dyno this week, ill post the results as soon as i get them.

fourthchirpin

lobe timing plays a part also. sometimes timing will make the car run harder then it will with higher lift and duration.

GATORMAX02

What about installing rev-up heads. Will they bolt up to the block?, or is that why your just doing cams?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

They are no better than standard VQ35 heads.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

The HR heads are the ones that would give you the added advantage of 1mm larger valves and more flow...but thats not what this thread is about