3.5 oil burner

[Weimar Ben]

D@mmit, my 3.5 swap has 25k miles on it now and 26k on the motor, and she's burning oil, about 1 qt every 1000 miles, and maybe every 1qt every 500 miles during hard driving. There's no oil spots in my driveway.

I get a little puff of blue smoke on startup and a bit of blue smoke during WOT. When cruising, I see no smoke.

My motor is out of a 2006 maxima. Should I make a VQ33 (VQ35 bottom end w/VQ30 pistons? HR pistons and rings? Did anyone figure out the effective CR with HR pistons?

Ugggh!!

[Kevlo911]

Do a VQ35 with the HR pistons and rings.

[MOHFpro90]

DaveVQ figured out a 12:1 CR with the HR pistons. I think. You would have to ask, Im sure he will chime in later.

[accordingtou]

That sucks.
There is a possibility the oil rings are "tired" buuut I would:
Recondition the 3.5 heads & call it a day.
Oh btw Make sure you use viton valve seals.
Yup the secret is out VITON VALVE SEALS.
If you dont belive me ...Me 3.5 no smokey okey dokey.lol
Good luck

[nismology]

VQ30 valve seals have the same exact part numbers as their VQ35 counterparts. That's not the problem. Heck, even the HR uses that part number.

[maximariceboi]

Originally Posted by Kevlo911

Do a VQ35 with the HR pistons and rings.

that's what i'm helping my buddy do sometime next month =]



but in anycase..damn..06 motor burning oil.....i guess who ever had the motor b4 didnt break in the motor properly....

[98SEBlackMax]

I would of thought they figured this problem out by now, I guess not.

Well at least a car equipped with a VQ35 engine can be touted as a three way hybrid. It burns gasoline, oil, and rubber.

[nismology]

Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax

I would of thought they figured this problem out by now, I guess not.

They have. The HR's and VHR's don't burn. It was the rings.

Well at least a car equipped with a VQ35 engine can be touted as a three way hybrid. It burns gasoline, oil, and rubber.

Mine won't.

[Weimar Ben]

I've been thinking about using Total Seal Gapless piston rings. The idea looks pretty intriguing. Been reading about it on some other forums and people get around 225psi on compression tests and low leakdown figures. They're kinda spendy though and the HR pistons and rings are only $368 from Dave B.

But I think I'm kinda gun shy about a 12.0:1 CR for street use. I have a quad (raptor 350) with a 12.5:1 JE piston that used to be 9.2:1 and it's now a crazy stump puller.

I suppose a 12.0:1 CR might be OK with the right tune and a EMU.

Is it the non-revup 350z head gasket that's 3 layer that'll fit my 3.5?

[nismology]

I don't know where the 12:1 thing is coming from. Hope it's not from that 240 guy because his logic was off.

[MOHFpro90]

Im not sure where Dave got those numbers. At first he said 13:1 which I was like...yeah, right. Thats not gonna work. Anyhow, Ill tell him to post in here.

[accordingtou]

Originally Posted by nismology

VQ30 valve seals have the same exact part numbers as their VQ35 counterparts. That's not the problem. Heck, even the HR uses that part number.

"Thats not the problem"
I see you are 100% sure as if you tore down my (3.0 & 3.5 de's) yourself.
I guess "dry rotted" seals & the the oil on the valves was all caused by the rings hmmph.
Fyi I had import/ Domestic gurus/ Technicians & machinists agree aswell.
(Not that it makes a diff to you)
As I said before theres a possibility, but Try not to etch everything in stone.

[Weimar Ben]

Originally Posted by accordingtou

"Thats not the problem"
I see you are 100% sure as if you tore down my (3.0 & 3.5 de's) yourself.
I guess "dry rotted" seals & the the oil on the valves was all caused by the rings hmmph.
Fyi I had import/ Domestic gurus/ Technicians & machinists agree aswell.
(Not that it makes a diff to you)
As I said before theres a possibility, but Try not to etch everything in stone.

Just because you saw an engine with dry rotted valve seals, doesn't mean that the the problem is endemic. The fact is that these valve seals have been used and proven for 14 years with the introduction of the vq30, which did not have valve seal problems.

Oil on the intake valve stems can also be caused by the pcv system. Go look in your IM and you find oil in it unless you have a catch can.

[DaveVQ]

to do the VQ33 build, you need a VQ30 block with a VQ35 crank with a set of VH/VK45 rods and pistons, these should be the perfect combination to make it reach just the engine deck level, doing this with the VH/VK pistons will give you ~3.4mm vs the VQ35 rods/piston combo. What is so ironic about all of this is how this really can easily be done, the crank fits and the connecting end of the rods(VH/VK) are ~55m and the pin connections are ~22mm, exactly the same sizes are the VQ35 rods/pistons.

Now looking at the rods there a couple of combinations really, the VQ35 rods are 144mm and the VH/VK rods are 147.00mm (almost the VQ30 rods at 147.65). Now if you choose to do the VQ35 rods and VH/VK pistons you could actually keep a lower compression and run boost. I however, choose to use the VH/VK rods so that I can keep compression up, I believe with the VQ30 heads the combo I am using will run a compression of 11:1 to 11.5:1 (I think). So in other words I will always be NA, be the added advantage of doing so with the VH/VK rods is that they are forged and are stronger then and because of this the longer length of the rods which will support the equivalent engine speeds. I plan to set my redline at 7200-7500 rpms, which is like 7500-7800 rpms on a VQ35 and 8000-8400 rpms on a VQ30.

This engine is completely possible but very expensive as not only do you have to locate the parts but also you will have to have the crank rebalanced, upgrade the oil pump, and possilby have the block resleeved. I will be replacing all the bearings and every bolt, to make sure this engine returns to as close as to factory specs as possible. As since you have the engine apart, upgrade the cams and upgrade everything to HR parts for the heads. This engine when first thought of several years ago probably wasn't possible without breaking the bank, but this setup now at this time is not too far out of reach without breaking the bank especially with HR parts now available to help make this engine stronger.

The time is nearing that I guess I should start my NA build thread, so you guys can critize me and give me some advice....Since I'm not going boosted anymore, the funds have shifted so I might add a built tranny to the project

[DaveVQ]

Originally Posted by MOHFpro90

DaveVQ figured out a 12:1 CR with the HR pistons. I think. You would have to ask, Im sure he will chime in later.

I was going to have custom pistons made to give me 12:1 but I decided not to and just use the stock VH/Vk pistons for a VQ33 setup.....you really do have a hard time reading my text messages....

as far as running HR pistons will give a 10.6:1 CR in a VQ35 I would think....

[accordingtou]

Originally Posted by Weimar Ben

Just because you saw an engine with dry rotted valve seals, doesn't mean that the the problem is endemic. The fact is that these valve seals have been used and proven for 14 years with the introduction of the vq30, which did not have valve seal problems.

Oil on the intake valve stems can also be caused by the pcv system. Go look in your IM and you find oil in it unless you have a catch can.

you type like your upset.....
"Calm down young grasshopper"
I just cant stand when people post like their words are "godly"
Nismology told me I was wrong How can he be 4 sure? he has never worked on the same exact engines I worked on.
3.0de 220k Eats a quart per oil change
3.0 218k+ eats no oil
3.0de 143k eats a quart a month
3.0de 150ish eats no oil
3.5's eat oil like a mofo
3.5 70k plus with viton seals (same original bottom end) no oil consumption
I know of member(s) who changed the rings & I havent seen a thread yet about it fixing the issue.
As I stated before, It is possible the rings or the valve seals are the issue.
I never stated that viton valve seals fix oil consumption for all 3.0 3.5's as a FACT. I just suggested them to you. I know this convo is pointless but hey im bored anyway.lol

I suggested viton valve seals. Hey you no likey..... Call nissan and order some hr rings (blow by ftl)
Thanks for the catch can lesson (pure elementary) I have three 3.0 manifolds sitting im my trunk right now.& one 3.5 @ the shop .I see this is your thread so Im not going to argue with you..... too much.
"endemic" nice word.lol

All jokes aside.
I truely wish you luck with the oil consumption issue.
GOOD LUCK.

viton ftmfw

[nismology]

Originally Posted by DaveVQ

as far as running HR pistons will give a 10.6:1 CR in a VQ35 I would think....

It's higher than that. The key is the compression height of the HR pistons.

[nismology]

Originally Posted by accordingtou

you type like your upset.....
"Calm down young grasshopper"
I just cant stand when people post like their words are "godly"
Nismology told me I was wrong How can he be 4 sure? he has never worked on the same exact engines I worked on.
3.0de 220k Eats a quart per oil change
3.0 218k+ eats no oil
3.0de 143k eats a quart a month
3.0de 150ish eats no oil
3.5's eat oil like a mofo
3.5 70k plus with viton seals (same original bottom end) no oil consumption
I know of member(s) who changed the rings & I havent seen a thread yet about it fixing the issue.
As I stated before, It is possible the rings or the valve seals are the issue.
I never stated that viton valve seals fix oil consumption for all 3.0 3.5's as a FACT. I just suggested them to you. I know this convo is pointless but hey im bored anyway.lol

I suggested viton valve seals. Hey you no likey..... Call nissan and order some hr rings (blow by ftl)
Thanks for the catch can lesson (pure elementary) I have three 3.0 manifolds sitting im my trunk right now.& one 3.5 @ the shop .I see this is your thread so Im not going to argue with you..... too much.
"endemic" nice word.lol

All jokes aside.
I truely wish you luck with the oil consumption issue.
GOOD LUCK.

viton ftmfw

It's simple logic really. Just because a couple 3.0's burn oil because of the valve seals doesn't automatically mean 3.5's that happen to use the same seals burn oil because of them. It's a KNOWN FACT that the rings are to blame. Seriously. Compression and leakdown tests done on burners back it up. HR's and VHR's don't burn oil, and they use the same seals. Furthermore, the VQ35 that the OP is talking about only has 26k on it. If the seals were so crappy that they'd fail at 26k then we'd be hearing about ALOT more VQ30DE's and DE-K's burning oil as well. But we don't.........

[grey99max]

Originally Posted by nismology

It's simple logic really. Just because a couple 3.0's burn oil because of the valve seals doesn't automatically mean 3.5's that happen to use the same seals burn oil because of them. It's a KNOWN FACT that the rings are to blame. Seriously. Compression and leakdown tests done on burners back it up. HR's and VHR's don't burn oil, and they use the same seals. Furthermore, the VQ35 that the OP is talking about only has 26k on it. If the seals were so crappy that they'd fail at 26k then we'd be hearing about ALOT more VQ30DE's and DE-K's burning oil as well. But we don't.........

For what it's worth, my 2002 Maxima 3.5 engine with 60K, with Ebay S1 cams and headers and spraying a 50-shot + 50 shot doesn't use any oil while driving normally, but go WOT either NA or - worse -with spray - and it pumps oil out the PCV. I connected two oil-catchers in series before the SSIM, and they both get oil - more in the first one, of course, but spray a bit and lots of oil ( maybe 1 CC) wind up in the glass bulb each time...

I assume this is rings - and maybe the next build with forged pistons/rods will help ??

[Weimar Ben]

Originally Posted by accordingtou

you type like your upset.....
"Calm down young grasshopper"
I just cant stand when people post like their words are "godly"
Nismology told me I was wrong How can he be 4 sure? he has never worked on the same exact engines I worked on.
3.0de 220k Eats a quart per oil change
3.0 218k+ eats no oil
3.0de 143k eats a quart a month
3.0de 150ish eats no oil
3.5's eat oil like a mofo
3.5 70k plus with viton seals (same original bottom end) no oil consumption
I know of member(s) who changed the rings & I havent seen a thread yet about it fixing the issue.
As I stated before, It is possible the rings or the valve seals are the issue.
I never stated that viton valve seals fix oil consumption for all 3.0 3.5's as a FACT. I just suggested them to you. I know this convo is pointless but hey im bored anyway.lol

I suggested viton valve seals. Hey you no likey..... Call nissan and order some hr rings (blow by ftl)
Thanks for the catch can lesson (pure elementary) I have three 3.0 manifolds sitting im my trunk right now.& one 3.5 @ the shop .I see this is your thread so Im not going to argue with you..... too much.
"endemic" nice word.lol

All jokes aside.
I truely wish you luck with the oil consumption issue.
GOOD LUCK.

viton ftmfw

So even with your anecdotal evidence with (4) 3.0L motors, with relatively high mileage suggest that valve seals aren't a problem.

This really pisses me off because my 2007 F-150 4.2L w/23k burns zero oil in 5000 mile oil changes. That motor design is pre-historic and dates back to 1982 which was a ripoff of the Buick 3.8L design in 1962. My old VQ30 had 123k on it and burned about 1 qt every 5000 miles.

I'll probably put viton seals in. They're cheap, so why not? Anyone know of a good place to buy them?

[nismology]

If the price is right I'd consider throwing 'em in too.