Well it was the oil pump...
05-21-2007, 10:33 AM
#1
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Well it was the oil pump...
Finally got a chance to pull my seized engine out and as soon as I got the pans off it became clear... oil pump, just like I (and most of us probably) thought.
Check out the pics below... cracked the casing in 4 places and shredded the teeth. In the 2nd pic those loose pieces off by themselves I found in the strainer..
Check out the pics below... cracked the casing in 4 places and shredded the teeth. In the 2nd pic those loose pieces off by themselves I found in the strainer..
Last edited by DandyMax; 07-05-2008 at 11:22 AM.
05-21-2007, 10:43 AM
#4
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Kev I only see 3 cracks on that one... 
KRRZ350: the engine had somewhere around 115k miles on it, it had lived on quality synthetic its entire life AFAIK. I was usually revving only to 7300-7500 but did hit higher a few times. It just fatigued I think, because it didn't actually fail at that high of a rev, I was around 4000-5000 during a burnout when it seized.
KRRZ350: the engine had somewhere around 115k miles on it, it had lived on quality synthetic its entire life AFAIK. I was usually revving only to 7300-7500 but did hit higher a few times. It just fatigued I think, because it didn't actually fail at that high of a rev, I was around 4000-5000 during a burnout when it seized.
05-21-2007, 11:23 AM
#9
Originally Posted by 95BLKMAX
oh wow what a bad one. This is new to me to seea VQ oil pump go out like that (or to go out at all for that matter) nice pictures tho! lol
05-21-2007, 12:02 PM
#11
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by 1FSTMAX
works now.. +1 on the clean engine.. So what is your next engine set up going to be?
05-21-2007, 02:29 PM
#13
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
Posts: 5,437
Originally Posted by DandyMax
To get me through this season, a DEK out of an 01 with about 55k on it that I will modify a bit...
05-21-2007, 02:32 PM
#14
Originally Posted by JClaw
Cams in a DEK will put this guy in the 12s! Once he has set the bar impossibly high for everyone else, hes gonna move on to the 3.5 and do the same thing.
Clever Canadians... J/K
05-21-2007, 03:55 PM
#18
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by Tatanko
We better see a 12-second time slip 
Originally Posted by JClaw
Cams in a DEK will put this guy in the 12s! Once he has set the bar impossibly high for everyone else, hes gonna move on to the 3.5 and do the same thing.
But I will need my secret weapon - Canadian "20% nitrous" air - to pull it off!
LOL. J/K... but in all seriousness, I am 100% sure I could have hit 12's with that engine on stock internals if it hadn't seized. I just figure now that since I have to swap in another engine I might as well tweak it a bit to increase my chances.
05-21-2007, 04:45 PM
#19
Damn. that oil pump exploded. Great to hear your still considering the 3.0 platform. I feel that there's still unchartered HP that can be have from the 3.0.
Are you going aggressive with cams or just dropping in the 3.5 one's?
Are you going aggressive with cams or just dropping in the 3.5 one's?
05-21-2007, 08:47 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Why do folks suggest the Revup pump over the stock 3.5 pump? I've heard it suggested before but don't know the reasoning.
05-21-2007, 08:52 PM
#24
Originally Posted by GoalieKeg
My logic is since revup motors take higher revs easier, then the revup oil pump must be either equal if not superior to the stock VQ35 non-revup pump.
05-21-2007, 09:17 PM
#27
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by speed racer
Damn. that oil pump exploded. Great to hear your still considering the 3.0 platform. I feel that there's still unchartered HP that can be have from the 3.0.
Are you going aggressive with cams or just dropping in the 3.5 one's?
Are you going aggressive with cams or just dropping in the 3.5 one's?
05-21-2007, 09:34 PM
#28
Originally Posted by DandyMax
Flow volume yes but what about ~8000-8200 rpm? Think the standard 3.5 will be as good as the rev-up at that level? Or would that be pushing it on both? ie will they hold together, assuming they can flow enough.. I'm trying to remember what pump 350zlover used on his high-rpm build (I'll search later if you don't recall)
Your dilemma is something I've though for a while now. Do oil pumps fail due to mechanical failures (the internals physically not being able to handle it) or due to insufficient flow at high revs due to design issues, thus starving itself and the rest of the motor? Maybe they cavitate and cause the oil to foam at excessive revs? I wish I knew the answer...
05-21-2007, 10:40 PM
#29
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (29)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
Posts: 4,572
I'm voting for mechanical failure of the pump, but that's just my .02 cents.....
Mustang dohc failed oil-pump, on these engines they fail because of a weak powdered metal used in the gears, billet oil-pump gears take care of that. Please don't flame, I just thought that this was at least somewhat relevant to this thread.
Mustang dohc failed oil-pump, on these engines they fail because of a weak powdered metal used in the gears, billet oil-pump gears take care of that. Please don't flame, I just thought that this was at least somewhat relevant to this thread.
05-21-2007, 10:50 PM
#30
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by nismology
He went with a revup oil pump shimmed to raise the "pop-off" pressure.
Your dilemma is something I've though for a while now. Do oil pumps fail due to mechanical failures (the internals physically not being able to handle it) or due to insufficient flow at high revs due to design issues, thus starving itself and the rest of the motor? Maybe they cavitate and cause the oil to foam at excessive revs? I wish I knew the answer...
Your dilemma is something I've though for a while now. Do oil pumps fail due to mechanical failures (the internals physically not being able to handle it) or due to insufficient flow at high revs due to design issues, thus starving itself and the rest of the motor? Maybe they cavitate and cause the oil to foam at excessive revs? I wish I knew the answer...
But yeah, I'm wondering too about what failed. Cavitation could be a possibility, the resulting large pressure differentials behind the impeller teeth... Another thing is that crank torsional vibrations will only get worse with high rpm, resonant frequencies can become an issue and if one has a UDP that's not damped...? Or is it a mechanical issue (ie stresses/metal failure/fatigue simply related to the high speed)?
One thing I will say, that 3L pump casing seems thin/not rigid or reinforced enough to me... I'll be looking forward to comparing a rev-up pump in a few days.
05-21-2007, 10:54 PM
#31
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by KRRZ350
I'm voting for mechanical failure of the pump, but that's just my .02 cents.....
Mustang dohc failed oil-pump, on these engines they fail because of a weak powdered metal used in the gears, billet oil-pump gears take care of that. Please don't flame, I just thought that this was at least somewhat relevant to this thread.
Mustang dohc failed oil-pump, on these engines they fail because of a weak powdered metal used in the gears, billet oil-pump gears take care of that. Please don't flame, I just thought that this was at least somewhat relevant to this thread.
Unless I'm mistaken though (small pic), it looks like the casing held together even though the innards 'sploded (how's that for a technical description lol), it looks a lot more rigid/reinforced than the VQ30.
06-11-2007, 02:09 PM
#34
While you're at it, update us with your full progress. I know you were going to throw a DE-K in, but I don't know if you ever said whether you were going to put cams in or change anything else from your previous setup. So, fill us in 
06-12-2007, 06:43 PM
#36
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Alrighty, so here's some pics. The casings are nearly identical and the rev up pump should fit right in place of the 3.0 pump (haven't put it in yet though).
The most noticeable difference is the depth of the inner/outer gears (by depth I mean thickness parallel to the axis of rotation - just look at the pics lol). The rev up gears are about 3 mm thicker. However, the tooth patterning is the same on both pumps.
I may shim the regulator yet before I put it in. Have to look up some info on that. BTW, the revup pump part number is 15010-AC700 in case anyone wants it.
The most noticeable difference is the depth of the inner/outer gears (by depth I mean thickness parallel to the axis of rotation - just look at the pics lol). The rev up gears are about 3 mm thicker. However, the tooth patterning is the same on both pumps.
I may shim the regulator yet before I put it in. Have to look up some info on that. BTW, the revup pump part number is 15010-AC700 in case anyone wants it.
Last edited by DandyMax; 07-05-2008 at 11:23 AM.
06-12-2007, 06:45 PM
#37
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted by Tatanko
While you're at it, update us with your full progress. I know you were going to throw a DE-K in, but I don't know if you ever said whether you were going to put cams in or change anything else from your previous setup. So, fill us in
06-12-2007, 06:51 PM
#38
I guess it being thicker means that it can handle more stress at higher revs without with minimal failure. It sounds like there may be some tinkering to get it in and working.
11-05-2007, 02:56 PM
#39
3.5 in the works
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,477
Some pics to complete the thread
Here are some pics of the #2 rod bearing that seized my DE engine (after the oil pump went). Always meant to post these but never got to it. Seeing as Neal posted his funky piston shots up today, I figured why not continue the engine carnage theme..
The other half was so bad I couldn't get the cap off the journal..
The other half was so bad I couldn't get the cap off the journal..
Last edited by DandyMax; 07-05-2008 at 11:24 AM.