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EU write-up corrections!

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Old 03-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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EU write-up corrections!

Connectors:
(Please change from digikey connectors to these interlocking connectors. The voltage and current capacity are better and the connectors are easier to work with. They also came stock with connecting pins. Radioshack has these in stock mostly.)

Male Connector: Model: 274-232 | Catalog #: 274-232
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

Female Connector: Model: 274-242 | Catalog #: 274-242
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

You'll need 4 male and 4 female connectors.


MAF Pins:
The MAF in and out terminals has to be switched oppositely. The blue wire connects to the wire coming from the engine, and the purple wire goes to the ECU. I had it written oppositely on the write-up. Please correct that.

VSS Pins:
The VSS wires are to be changed up the same way as the MAF wires. You'll need to switch to opposite wiring like the MAF.

Crank/Cam Pins:
The crank and cam wires are possibly tapped wrong, too. But this has yet to be confirmed. I hope someone can step in and check this out. Until it's officially confirmed, do not use my write-up to install the wires. Because I happend to bleed the coilpacks upon the 3rd day of operation. Please hang on, I am back to working on the EU again. And I just got 2 spare sets of coilpacks now. I will sort the crank and cam wires out within a week.

Here's the official write-up, in case some installed guys can look at my diagrams and input the info on the crank and cam wires:
http://www.vqpower.com/v2/modules.ph...howpage&pid=94

Guys, I am so sorry about this big mistake I made on the write-up. I was working on making corrections few months ago, but my jump drive where I store all my work had got stolen, and I couldn't remember the corrections. I was also caught up with busy work after that. So I couldn't submit a correction to Luke in VQpower.com

But I'm back to working on this EU again. I'm gonna have everything sorted out within a week. So just bare with me. I promise to have a solid answer about the wires. So far, I just got to sort out the crank and cam wires, other than that the other issues have been fixed. And if I do not use crank and cam wires, by just using the rpm wire alone, I can start the car fine and tune, but cannot see ignition timing maps. So just bare with me another week. It'll be done. Again, I really want to help but this big mistake costs a lot of misfortunes. I deeply apologize for my personal failures here in the org.

-Peter-
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:40 AM
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Can we get a disclaimer up on vqpower that the writeup is not to be followed 100% at this time and mearly for reference?
As far as I've decifered on the crank POS & REF that you won't even need the cam signal per dandymax.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:00 PM
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I deactivated the writeup until it can be reuploaded with the new information.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:04 PM
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It was my fault, and I will have the results to submit soon. I am sorry.

Thanks Luke...

-Peter-
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Old 03-04-2007, 05:47 PM
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Not your fault entirely. Myself and others should double check something this important to be sure before running power anyways.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:37 AM
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Just wanted to bump this and see if anyone that has the EU up & running could shed some light on things.
Here's the PMs between us

Originally Posted by jmeister
Any luck with the revision of the install write up? I checked my wiring again today and hardwired into the ECU harness instead of the plug & play I made thinking that might be the issue. Still no luck, it'll crank but never fires. Not sure if it has to do with the jumpers or not but I noticed that jp15 & jp16 are different between the jap instructions and the us instructions. My pcb board matches the jap instructions. I also tried both the hotwire setup and karman vortex for MAF. I'm starting to wonder if I have a bad unit... the ignition chip is still attached though. I'm going to try the different jumpers tomorrow even though it shouldn;t matter since we get the rpm signal from the cam angle.


Originally Posted by GodFather
Hey, that's where I'm stuck at, too!!!

I tried so many routes on Tuesday and Wednesday already, I'm getting the same results all the time. It seems like I'm not getting any fire at all. Is your EU brand new or used? Mine is used, and it's that version C board with the ignition chip problems, but I cannot observer any defects right now by looking at the inside. I'm pretty sure the jumper settings I put down is correct, but I didn't notice the difference between the jap and us jumpers beind different. I've been busy with midterms this week and am exhausted from school. I plan to go back and try it some more tonight and see what the heck is up. It'll be my last straw before I make a report tomorrow.

Try not to hardwire your EU wires onto ECU because it makes everything hard to manipulate afterwards. I checked my diagram over just last night. The corrections I made last week in the thread governs the my latest wiring setup. I wasn't careful about it before and I regret to post that diagram on the write-up because it gives me the same problems as you.

My EU problems right now is like this:

1) I can get EU online, plugged to the laptop, get to logging window and hit start. I can try to crank the car while watch the logging goes, RPMs are fine, airflow is really weird, and there's no fire at all. I'm starting to think that I may have to remove those ignition resistors about this.

2) I get a Maf code all the time, nothing else. But I thought I have just corrected the Maf wires, it's really weird to me.

3) When I had to mess with the EU software setting while it's online, I would go to the ignition coils and unplug them just because I'm speculating that the igntion coils get burned up because EU is on while the engine is not running. I've googled and seen this problem twice. So precautiously, I rather not waste the coils because they are 300 bucks for a decent set.

4) When I unplug everything from EU, and go back to stock, it cranks up right away, no codes whatsover.


I am really running out of ideas at this time. Don't really know what's really wrong after all. But my write-up was posted several months ago because my car did crank up and ran fine for 5 minutes after initial install, then it burned up the coils after 3 days left alone on the lot, and I've been having problems with it eversince.

I will make my final report tomorrow night, and if I cannot locate a fix for this, I'll just simply ask Luke (gtr_rider) to terminate the EU write-up for good.

I hope you can copy and paste all the things I've just said after my threads I opened up last week. I am going to a project conference at work righ now and I cannot post anything after this. So I would appreciate if you can help me input the latest info up there for me. I hope Dandymax can come in and help if he sees this.

-Peter-
I also have a used revision C and the resistors (330ohm 1/4w) and the only codes I get are for MAF also but when I revert back to stock ECU it fires right up. My other main question that I forgot to ask Kevlo last night was regarding the Crank REF wiring. It says tap pin 44 but is it just pin 44 or also pin 48? I notice they tie in together @ ECU harness and the FSM list them both as REF on a '98 at least.
It's raining here and apt. so I haven't messed with it today.
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:11 PM
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EU write-up is defective at this point. I've tried many possible corrections on it, none of which has worked. It leads to me that my jumper settings must be wrong, especially on the MAF settings. I am not getting a MAF signal from the EU's MAF output into the ECU at all, thus there's no ignition signals. I lined up the ignition out wires from EU with low voltage LED's, none lit up whatsoever with the EU. With stock ecu only, everything was back to normal.

I'm going to call this write-up off as of now, hopefully someone can chime in on this. I'm going to ask Luke to put the file here in this thread so that whoever can mastermind this fix can take a good look, especially at the jumper settings I posted in the write-up. I really dont' think it's the wiring at all. So far, the write-up is no good. Sorry.

-Peter-
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gtr_rider
I deactivated the writeup until it can be reuploaded with the new information.

Luke, can you input a link here in this thread for whom ever can be of concern to access the file?

I hope someone can look at the jumper settings and verify my setup to be correct...Thanks.

-Peter-
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:22 PM
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I can host the .pdf file if needed
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Old 03-11-2007, 06:05 PM
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Peter what pins/colors are you using on the EU for the MAF?

It should be: EU pin 15 (conn B), color WHITE - connected to the MAF side
EU pin 22 (conn B), color GREEN - connected to the ECU side

Jumpers:

Originally Posted by DandyMax
For the 3.0 ECU/sensors the jumpers will normally be:

JP1 to JP6 - default (OPEN)
JP7 & JP8 - default (1-2)
JP9 - default (OPEN)
JP10 - change to 2-3 if using auxiliary output (eg - as an rpm switch or relay driver)
JP11 & JP12 - default (OPEN), if using pressure sensor or WB
JP13 & JP14 - change to 1-2 if using for air and/or water temp, otherwise default (OPEN) for KS
JP15 - default (1-2)
JP16 - default (OPEN), generally not applicable to us
JP17 - default (1-2), generally not applicable to us
JP18 - default (OPEN)
JP19 & JP20 - default (1-2)

.......
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Old 03-11-2007, 06:44 PM
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JP15 - default (1-2)
I'm wondering if that's the problem... the EU manual shows 1 2 3 but my PCB board is labeled 3 2 1. I had it set per the book when it should be set per the board. But will this matter since it's not using signal from the tach?
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Old 03-11-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmeister
JP15 - default (1-2)
I'm wondering if that's the problem... the EU manual shows 1 2 3 but my PCB board is labeled 3 2 1. I had it set per the book when it should be set per the board. But will this matter since it's not using signal from the tach?
I don't think that jumper setting will matter too much... BUT... as a rule of thumb, you should always check jumper settings based on the numbers on the board itself, not the manual. Same thing for wire colors etc, verify the pin location physically on the connectors rather than the color the manual gives, most manuals usually have one or two typos in them...
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Old 03-11-2007, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GodFather
Luke, can you input a link here in this thread for whom ever can be of concern to access the file?

I hope someone can look at the jumper settings and verify my setup to be correct...Thanks.

-Peter-
Here you go, sorry forgot about this thread..

http://www.vqpower.com/images/howto/...stallation.pdf
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:01 AM
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My only problems have resulted from a couple of joints not holding up. As of now everything is working well.

The jumper settings I'm using are:

JP1 to JP6 - default (OPEN)
JP7 & JP8 - default (1-2)
JP9 - default (OPEN)
JP10 - default
JP11 & JP12 - default (OPEN)
JP13 & JP14 - change to 1-2 using for intake and water temp
JP15 - default (1-2)
JP16 - default (OPEN)
JP17 - default (1-2)
JP18 - default (OPEN)
JP19 & JP20 - default (1-2)
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:14 AM
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Ill remember to tripple check and weld the wires real good. Potential problems can be eliminated easily that way.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:14 AM
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but is it possible to not make a harness and just hardwire in a EU, like an safc?

And yes, I'm very confused.

DF
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DandyMax
I don't think that jumper setting will matter too much... BUT... as a rule of thumb, you should always check jumper settings based on the numbers on the board itself, not the manual. Same thing for wire colors etc, verify the pin location physically on the connectors rather than the color the manual gives, most manuals usually have one or two typos in them...

I think I'm gonna have to check on the wires again, then. I did rely solely on the color of the EU wires, and those assigned colors govern my whole setup. I was calling it quits yesterday, swearing not to deal with it ever again. But what you said here is very conforting, I will go back to it again within a week or so. This semester sucks, I am so loaded with projects after projects from classes.

For the jumpers, Jmeister did mention that the jumpers are differently on certain version boards, I didn't notice that at all when I was setting up mine. I followed strictly your jumper settings, hope that's all good from here.

I'm gonna give it another few tries, but after this, if it still doesn't work, I will just buy a 8:1 FMU for my 7-psi vortech setup on my 3.0

-Peter-
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dfownz
Maybe I'm missing something here, but is it possible to not make a harness and just hardwire in a EU, like an safc?

DF
Most definately.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:43 AM
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Luke,
Thanks for hosting the link for me here. I hope everyone here uses it only to help track down the errors I made, please do not use the write-up to install the EU at this time.



Dandy,
I just checked my jp settings against yours that you've just posted in this thread. I found jp13 and jp14 to be set differently:

Those are the air and water temp jumpers. For some odd reason, I've had both of them set to "open" while yours are set to 1-2 for receiving air and water temps. Then that means I'm set to receive knock signals instead, but our wiring doesn't do knock signals. Could this be the culprit of our problems? In the CH setting parameters, the intake and water temp type aren't loaded, they are "not used". I think this is probably what it is. because I cannot override this value by switching it to "NS_AT-1" or "NS_AT-2"; it stays "not used".

Rough theoreticals here (Thermodynamics Class): In the (PV)/(nRT)in=(PV)/(nRT)out equation for engine's (system's) load value parameters, air temp is needed in addition to pressure and airflow volume for the engine control unit to know how and when to send fuel and spark. So if all this makes sense here, because jumpers 13 and 14 are turned off for air temp, that gives us no temperature basis for EU to calculate ignition parameters and generate correct signals, I assume...thus no signals are generated. Or it could just be the way EU is made, that if we select non-air or non water temp signals, a source of knock signals must be inputed, but vq30det settings don't have the knock parameters in place. Thus, not starting the car.

I don't have time in the next 5-8 days to deal with this theory, if someone can try it before me, please let me know the outcome, hopefully this is it.


-Peter-
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dfownz
Maybe I'm missing something here, but is it possible to not make a harness and just hardwire in a EU, like an safc?

And yes, I'm very confused.

DF

Yes you can just hardwire in. In fact to an extent regardless of how you do it, there is hardwiring involved.

However, some people (such as myself) would prefer a plug n play type application. I did the plug n play because if I ran into problems with wiring or setup, I could easily pull it out of the car, plug the stock harness back in and the car is back to normal with no problems. Then I could fix the problems and plug it back in when I had time.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dfownz
Maybe I'm missing something here, but is it possible to not make a harness and just hardwire in a EU, like an safc?

And yes, I'm very confused.

DF

Of course you can hardwire the EU to it. That's a easier way to get through the job. But if you want to run stock ecu again for some reason, you'll be left with wounds and patches here and there. My intension in the write-up with the harness is to make plug and play between stock ecu and EU in any chosen condition. I wouldn't say it's better, but for a guy like me, who constantly messes with the car, it's more feasible to do plug and play.

If and when the problem for this write-up gets fixed, the corrected write-up is still the governing instruction for the hardwire install because the wiring diagram explains all the wiring and locations to complete the project. There's no ambiguity between the 2, they are basically the same, only plug and play consumes more time.

-Peter-
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GodFather
Those are the air and water temp jumpers. For some odd reason, I've had both of them set to "open" while yours are set to 1-2 for receiving air and water temps. Then that means I'm set to receive knock signals instead, but our wiring doesn't do knock signals. Could this be the culprit of our problems? In the CH setting parameters, the intake and water temp type aren't loaded, they are "not used". I think this is probably what it is. because I cannot override this value by switching it to "NS_AT-1" or "NS_AT-2"; it stays "not used".
I have/had jps 13 & 14 set to 1-2 to accept water & intake temps, software configed for them and still no start with my car. I'm getting ready to go try the tach vs coil method on the jumpers. [fingers crossed]
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Old 03-12-2007, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jmeister
I have/had jps 13 & 14 set to 1-2 to accept water & intake temps, software configed for them and still no start with my car. I'm getting ready to go try the tach vs coil method on the jumpers. [fingers crossed]

Thanks for trying. Let me know the results.
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Old 03-12-2007, 02:36 PM
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still doesn't fire on either tach or coil selection, also tried bypassing EU for the MAF input/output and just leaving it to ECU
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GodFather
For the jumpers, Jmeister did mention that the jumpers are differently on certain version boards, I didn't notice that at all when I was setting up mine. I followed strictly your jumper settings, hope that's all good from here.
Yes the layout is different on different board versions, but the settings shouldn't change, they'll just physically be in a different spot on the board. As I said above, I would verify the setting by the number printed on the circuit board next to the jumper...

Originally Posted by GodFather
Dandy,
I just checked my jp settings against yours that you've just posted in this thread. I found jp13 and jp14 to be set differently:

Those are the air and water temp jumpers. For some odd reason, I've had both of them set to "open" while yours are set to 1-2 for receiving air and water temps. Then that means I'm set to receive knock signals instead, but our wiring doesn't do knock signals. Could this be the culprit of our problems? In the CH setting parameters, the intake and water temp type aren't loaded, they are "not used". I think this is probably what it is. because I cannot override this value by switching it to "NS_AT-1" or "NS_AT-2"; it stays "not used".

Rough theoreticals here (Thermodynamics Class): In the (PV)/(nRT)in=(PV)/(nRT)out equation for engine's (system's) load value parameters, air temp is needed in addition to pressure and airflow volume for the engine control unit to know how and when to send fuel and spark. So if all this makes sense here, because jumpers 13 and 14 are turned off for air temp, that gives us no temperature basis for EU to calculate ignition parameters and generate correct signals, I assume...thus no signals are generated. Or it could just be the way EU is made, that if we select non-air or non water temp signals, a source of knock signals must be inputed, but vq30det settings don't have the knock parameters in place. Thus, not starting the car.
If the EU is telling you "not used" it's because the jumpers aren't matching what's physically connected. However, I don't think the 2 temp sensors or the KS connections would keep the car from running normally. None of them are intercepted signals, just taps. The ECU would still get the correct signals from the sensors, and put out timing/fuel accordingly. And unless you've got more advanced maps set up to control timing or fuel based on air or water temps, then the EU is not looking at those variables either when it adjusts the stock PW's or timing.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:38 PM
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Damn ignition chip. Had to get a magnifying glass to see that the solder had indeed broken down one side. I lightly pushed the pins back in place and put the iron to it. Plugged in and car fired right up. I wired the MAF for intercept but the car went into limp mode & I couldn't rev past 2500. Plugged it back into ECU and ran fine, EU lets me know about it though, will have to tap it later I guess. Car is running rich however and I guess I need to start reading up on the tuning portion of it.
Wanted to thank Kevlo for the help/troubleshooting and answering my newbish questions, Dandy for pioneering and also thanks to everyone who chimes into these threads with suggestions & comments.
She's alive again!
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jmeister
Damn ignition chip. Had to get a magnifying glass to see that the solder had indeed broken down one side. I lightly pushed the pins back in place and put the iron to it. Plugged in and car fired right up. I wired the MAF for intercept but the car went into limp mode & I couldn't rev past 2500. Plugged it back into ECU and ran fine, EU lets me know about it though, will have to tap it later I guess. Car is running rich however and I guess I need to start reading up on the tuning portion of it.
Wanted to thank Kevlo for the help/troubleshooting and answering my newbish questions, Dandy for pioneering and also thanks to everyone who chimes into these threads with suggestions & comments.
She's alive again!
You can keep the MAF intercepted, but turn on the Airflow Adjustment map (zeroed out)... it should run fine like that as long as the wiring is correct.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DandyMax
You can keep the MAF intercepted, but turn on the Airflow Adjustment map (zeroed out)... it should run fine like that as long as the wiring is correct.
It was on and zeroed
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jmeister
It was on and zeroed
Then I'd say you have another issue somewhere...
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:17 PM
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Woh, so it's the ignition chip? I cannot believe I missed this region of uncertainty. I only observed it sparingly, no details under the magnifying glass at all. I guess this could be my case also. My EU is of the C-version, the troublesome ignition chip version. Hope this to be the culprit of my problems after all.

-Peter-
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:37 AM
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Some very patient .org member suggested I only run the injectors off the EU and let the ECU control the ignition to narrow things down. Helped me verify either a wiring issue (which I didn't think it was) or the board/chip.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jmeister
Some very patient .org member suggested I only run the injectors off the EU and let the ECU control the ignition to narrow things down. Helped me verify either a wiring issue (which I didn't think it was) or the board/chip.

4:37am, and you're still up talking about your EU. LOL. J/K.

I'm spent on the possibilities already. I'm gonna halt my actions for a while. School projects are getting in the way too much. Sorry. But I'll check up here to see some inputs. If I have time, I'll try to work on it again.

Thanks for helping out so much on this big booga I dug.

-Peter-
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:30 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jmeister
Some very patient .org member suggested I only run the injectors off the EU and let the ECU control the ignition to narrow things down. Helped me verify either a wiring issue (which I didn't think it was) or the board/chip.

I wonder who that was
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