96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

This seems to be one of the larger areas of discussion for power gains on a N/A maxima. I stole a few images, check these out.

maxima timing.




350z stock ecu timing.




aftermarket ecu timing.





Look how much more advance the 350z gets than a 5.5 gen maxima, and thats the stock ecu. No wonder the boosted 350z guys blow motors with stock timing after 5500rpm. JWT 3.0 ecu timing seems to be very similar to the stock 350z timing though.

How about the technosquare ecu for the 350z?

Since the emanage ultimate is still not fully tested and on the front end of development, I hate to be a guinea pig. Maybe I should just get JWT to do a timing map for me similar to the 350z.? It already seems very close to the stock 350z timing though.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

The EU is basicly ready, just waiting for the new firmware. The beta version has been tested and works on the VQ30 app/VQ30 crank sensors.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Do you have the link to where that 350Z timing data came from?

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...datalog+timing

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

I just used my auterra to datalog my car in 3rd gear. The maximum timing advance that it recorded was 28 degrees, that was from 5900rpm to redline. I started at 4000rpm and it steadily increased from 21 degrees to 28 degrees one degree at a time.

It looks like I am a few degrees short of some of the other 3.0 JWT ecu logs. Since the 350z I posted is over 30 degrees at 6400 rpm, and they have more topend anyway, it seems as though I could use a little more timing.

Does anyone have any more info about ignition timing? I am trying to fully understand.

Fred Allen Burge

96sleeper,
I'm ....that close to getting my 3.5 started on my standalone. Once I get it drivable and tuned I'll have much much more useful information for all those using 3.5L's w/o the VTC's. I just found out today that I have a new dyno 5 miles from my house, combined w/ my Innovate LC1 that's gonna make tuning that much easier.

Once I get some useful timing information I'll let eveyone know.

allen

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Can't wait Allen. Definitely keep us updated.

So 96sleeper, so if I am understanding you correctly, having timing advanced too far is not good for FI which is why you are stating 350z guys blow there motor, but it may be ideal for 4th gens with 3.5 motors to get a timing map similar to the stock 350z because this is slightly more aggressive than the stock 5th gen timing map but still safe since you are N/A???

Trying to develop an understanding of this stuff.

Thanks,
Mike

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

Basically thats right. Look at the stock 350z versus the stock 5.5 gen maxima. Thats one of the reasons the 350z has more power. I was just using the 350z as an example to see how much timing a 3.5 can take. It will be slightly different for me since I do not have vtc's and am using 3.0 timing equip.

6spd_Hayes

iTrader: (3)

Matt, two weekends ago, I datalogged 4 of my 1/8th mile runs at the drag strip, including ignition timing. They are in csv file formats (I may have already converted them over to Excel). If you would like me to send the files to you via email for you to take a look at, just PM me your email address again (I may have it, but send it to me just to make sure). My base timing is advanced 2 degrees, so it may be a little off from yours.

When I looked at my numbers, my timing at higher RPMs never break thru the 30 degree range. They stay high 20's (26.5, 27, etc). Just let me know soon.

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

So since you have removed the VTC's does that mean the 3.5 in a 4th gen will not be able to handle as much timing advance as a normal 3.5 therefore, meaning it would not be safe to use the same timing map as a 350z? I guess my basic question is how do the VTC's effect timing as far as the limits to advance? Does it give more or less room to advance or does it have no effect?

This is very good stuff.

Mike

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The amount of timing advance you can dial in has to do with how much load there is. Load has to do with how much force the ignited a/f mixture can push the piston down with, and how quickly the piston can move downward after the force has been applied. Generally the lower the load, the more advance can be dialed in, this is why timing advance is highest at high rpm/low throttle angle and lowest at low rpm/high throttle angle. From what i've read, the VTC's do much of their work in the mid-range, although they do help the top-end somewhat. A 3.5 with operating VTC will have slightly better VE in the top-end than one without, so the load on the pistons will be slightly higher for a given throttle angle and RPM. And the 350Z motor has better top-end anyway due to the IM and perhaps VTC maps. Based on this, i would see nothing wrong with advancing the timing to at least what the 350Z motor runs especially on a non-VTC'd 3.5.


Did i make any sense??

mforrest100

iTrader: (24)

Yes. Had to read it a couple of times but I think I got it. I guess this thoery just has to be tested. It seems like this would be more beneficial for people that have a TS or JWT because you can ask if they can put the 350z timing map on the ECU but the EU guys can just tune themselves to get to the best application for there vehicle. Very informative for everyone though.

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

So where do the 4th gen guys with the 3.5's and the 3.0 TS stand compared to the stock 350z ecu timing? Because thats where I am...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Did you bother looking at those graphs at the top of this page at all?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Looking at the stock 350Z timing curve, the advance is lowest around peak torque, then starts to ramp up toward redline. Seems like timing advance is more or less inversely related to volumetric efficiency, from the factory at least.

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

ah makes sense now, the not all the graphs were showing up earlier