Fred Allen Burge

Hello,
Thought I'd start a thread for my intake manifold project in case anyone else wants to build one like this or similar. I'm building it like the Kinetix VQ manifold.
I'm starting in the morning so no pics until tomorrow but I intend to list some dimensions and other useful information that would benefit the community.

I'm using steel because it cheap, easy to weld and more readily available. There's no measurable performance difference between steel, aluminum and plastic from what I can tell so that shouldn't be an issue. I'll probably have it powder coated when it's done.

My main design considerations are hood clearance and ease of fabrication (no factory VQ manifolds will clear my hood and firewall, not even close). Besting the factory manifold in terms of power is not my goal.

Unfortunately I won't be able to provide any before/after dyno results as I have no before data to start with. I'm also using Z headers and a standalone ECU so my results will be different then most Maxima, Z or Altima results anyway.

Anyway, I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

allen

Mesa3077Boogie

Hey whats up man? I just purchased my 00 max like 2 months ago and JUST got into performace parts so forgive me for sounding immature.. But whats the intake manifold? Is the immediate part right after the air intake? Or the part behind the mass airflow sensor? Or neiter..? How would your custom built intake manifold effect performance.. HP? Torque?

Fred Allen Burge

Hey man,
The intake manifold is the large aluminum or plastic part that comes directly after the throttle body, it has six tubes that feed the 6 cylinders of the engine.

I hope mine increases performance!

allen

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

If you're going to model it after the kinetix, a few things I'd do:

-Shorter runners
-Bigger plenum
-TB coming out in front of the engine (since you're RWD), i.e the straightest path possible to cold air.
-Use a composite material between the lower and your manifold, to reduce weight transfer (I think they use carbon fiber or such).

Good luck.

Alex_V

you know Im interested.

Are you using super short velocity stacks? That was my idea. get them an inch or 2 high and then weld a steel plate to that, port match it, and then weld a plenum on top of that. Of course the TB in front since Im doing a FR engine layout as well.

Hopefully it'll give good high end power w/o the VI. I have and idea for the vi, but I donno if it would work. Ill have to do some sketches or something.

The main thing to look at when both of us are done is how the power band compares to similar exausted cars, and how the post 4000rpm power band looks. Can't wait too see how it turns out...

~Alex

GodFather

iTrader: (10)

Totally agreed with Jclaw here:
-shorter runners constitutes a better high end performance while bigger plenum can be made to flow better.
-bigger plenum also maintains a fixed static volumetric air potential for torque in the lower ends. This is the best idea ever.
-then TB coming out in front of the engine is subsequent to flow nature which flow is sorta rammed into the collecting plenum while possible cold air routing is in its natural flow characteristics. The RSX-S are made so that the TB sits like this. Try to keep the induction air duct as straight as possible heading into the TB.

composite materials are hard to fabricate without proper shops and tools. Hope you can make it. If you can overcome this difficulty, you may be able to patent a new manifold for Nissan's VQ35's.

and good luck

wunfstmax

iTrader: (7)

and to go with all that a 8k rpm redline.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

The stock Z intake manifold has a plenum volume of 4 liters. The b-line IM (still in developpement) has a nearly 7 liter plenum with rather short velocity stacks and an overal triangle-like shape.

The tips of the velocity stacks (air horns) draw air from the middle of this huge plenum (the air horns protrude about 3 inches into the plenum). That manifold is said to give (at this stage) 18wtq and 20whp over a stock Z manifold. Slap a TB on the front and you're in business.

GodFather

iTrader: (10)

sounds great Jclaw, but I hope to see this b-line IM capable of adapting into the 4th gen setup. Where can I hear more about this manifold? and is 4th gen adaptation in mind?

Fred Allen Burge

Thanks for all the tips, I'll take them all into consideration. I got the flange and the runners done today thanks in great part to the help of some very nice friends of mine who lent me tools and even pitched in, Thank You!

Here's some pics so far:





The runner length hasn't been set in stone yet, I'll likely cut them shorter as everyone suggests. The plenum is up in the air totally still so I can make it as big or small as needed really.

I'd love to bell the ends of the runners (velocity stacks) but I'd have to cut the edges of each bell off so they didnt hit one another, might still be worth it....

The flange took me all day, a plasma cutter, a torch, various grinders and lots of thought! The runners will spigot into the flange for added smoothness, better air flow. I used 1/4" steel and it was really too thick for our plasma cutter, thinner would have saved me a lot of time.


Hope to finish it soon!

allen

GodFather

iTrader: (10)

wow, check this thing out! what nice piece of fruit you are getting onto that car? man, i wish i have a s13 to work with. good luck and keep all of us informed. especially that 350z 6 speed tranny mating up a vq30de, you'd have to keep us all informed about the outcome for sure. i can't wait to see our 6-speed running without the hassle of drive by throttles.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

One way you could make the velocity stacks work would be to point every other runner to the other side, and make something sort of like this:



Just a thought, definitely more work. It would look cooler too.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

wow is that an S13? simply beautiful!

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Remember that one end needs to get smaller so all the cylenders get the same amount of air.

Fred Allen Burge

Thanks guys, and thanks JClaw for the tips, sounds like you've done some homework.

I though about a dual plenum setup like the 300Z but it just wasn't worth the extra work really. Would look nice though.

It's actually an S14, 95 model.

I'd like to hear more about that b-line IM, never heard of it. Do you have any pics?

thanks again,
allen

aznsap

iTrader: (29)

amazing. if we wanted something like this to work with the vq30, would we just have to port-match? any other options?

Fred Allen Burge

The flange for the VQ35 is totally different than the VQ30. You would have to replace this flange all together, not just port it out, etc.

I don't see why more Maxima people haven't built custom IM's yet, its not all that hard really, we get off easy since we can use the stock lower IM. That eliminates the need to fabricate the fuel injector ports. And, for a turbocharged motor it could have some really great benefits.

allen

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

I want to experiment on a 2k2 IM if I can get my hands on a spare this summer.

Fred Allen Burge

I'll sell you my stocker if you want it, its from an 03 and I'll never need it.

allen

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

How bout something like this...http://speedforceracing.com/products...y_g35imani.php

Fred Allen Burge

Kinda neat looking but I think it's really over engineered, the same effect is available in a more simple design. I get the impression they built it that way more for looks then anything.

allen

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

B-line intake manifold (w/out the top cover, so you can see inside):

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

Nice... Individual TB's sound sooo sweeet.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I'd be interested in seeing the results of that... I have a spare 2k2 IM sitting here but I don't know enough to start "experimenting" yet.

Watching this thread as well.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

They do. But the Bline IM is not an ITB setup, it just has 6 straight velocity stacks and a huge, common plenum.

Fred Allen Burge

That's not bad at all. I take it the top half of that pic is of another engine.

I'm working on a way to get the velocity stacks incorporated into mine as well. SDS says they are good for a 19% increase in air flow!
http://www.sdsefi.com/air12.html

allen

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

I know I was speaking in general. It reminded me of the VQ30 with Idividual TB's.

japmaxSE

iTrader: (7)

Race VQ30 provided by. Kevlo911

vsamoylov

interesting thread

oTranscendental

iTrader: (4)

What kind of numbers does this thing produce?

6spd_Hayes

iTrader: (3)

sorry to bring this up from the dead but....... (also, sorry for the size)




Only $6090 from http://www.topsecretjpn.com/!!!

http://www.topsecretjpn.com/engine.shtml

6spd_Hayes

iTrader: (3)

Could not find any more info about it....

Fred Allen Burge

Don't ever apologize for ITB's, ever.


allen

maxmale

what kind of gains would you expect with those itb's

SuperStasiu

iTrader: (3)

Sooo thats individual throttle bodys and twin turbo? And all hes got holding all the boost in is that cover. I think thats a waste of horsepower, more for looks. Wouldnt you want the air rammed directly into the engine not into a space and then sucked in?? Now if that was sitting on top of a blower like on big block then maybe it would be nice. Maybe if he designed some kind of a six way split for the air into each throttle body then i think it would be ok. Correct me if im wrong im just thinking out loud

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

do you have any idea what Top Secret does and has built in the past?? I'm pretty sure they knew what thye were doing when they designed that ITB setup

Fred Allen Burge

Your wrong but I can see where you got the idea, seems to make sense at first. The truth is that the engine will suck in on each intake stroke - key here is that it will SUCK even if there is 30 psi of boost in the inake manifold. So, you want the engine to be able to suck w/ the least amount of restriction possible so that it can suck in the most air possible. By using the nicely curved intake velocity stack -the gold things, the builder is allowing the engine to suck in more air because of the aerodynamics involved.

Don't forget, even though the intake manifold is pressurized the engine still has to suck in air each time the intake valve opens in the head. The fact that there is boost present just makes the sucking action easier/more efficient for the engine.

allen

UK-nissan

Subsribe...

vsamoylov

every company can make mistakes. they dont ge it right the first time.

SuperStasiu

iTrader: (3)

I know what they do its just that a direct boost fed system seems like it would work alot better since its goes right through solid manifold to engine. This set up how ever all the boost goes to open space then get sucked in through the runners in my opinion that type of throttle body would be very effective on top of a blower. I think it wastes the boost and the full boost isnt utilized fully. Ok lets say you have a box with a tube out of it and you push air into the box the air coming out the tubehole is gonna be at lower pressure then if you would just push the pressure through the tube. I know the their is suction their but the forced air isnt going to each throttle body directly its just going into an open space. Also how do you know that that black box will hold an XX amount pressure also how do you know the throttle body thats farthest away from where the air is entering the space is getting the same amount of pressure as the one thats closest to it. Just cause they are top secret doesnt mean they are the greatest company ever.