3.5 swap procedure and FAQ
09-24-2005, 10:47 AM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Interior Alaska
Posts: 1,820
3.5 swap procedure and FAQ
This is a Work in Progress and a little unorganized.... 
I felt it was time that someone did something like this and I figured it would help me to understand the swap that I'm about to do. Some of it was shamelessly ripped from other threads. I'm sure there's prolly something in here is not completely accurate. Feel free to
me for any errors or let me know of any worthwhile additions.
3.5 swap procedure
This guide assumes you will be using the 3.0 wiring harness with a 95-01 ECU.
Tools needed:
Cherry picker (engine hoist)
Metric socket set
Torque wrench
Gasket scraper
Breaker bar (for the crank pulley only)
Air tools are a great time saver
Floor jack
Jack stands
Common sense
A buddy to help you mount the engine and lock the flywheel in place when taking off the crank pulley.
95-99 FSM
When you receive the engine, do a leakdown test to verify the health of the engine. You don’t want to go through the work of putting in the engine only to find out that there’s a problem with it.
To use the 3.0 ECU, you must use the 3.0 inner and outer timing cases, chain, and sprockets. You can use the 3.5 cams. You have to enlarge this hole in order to use the VQ30 timing cases. You need to enlarge the corresponding hole on the left side of the timing chain case as well.
(shamelessly ripped from Nismo3114)
And you have to drill the intake cams in order to reposition the dowel hole or have Tilleys99 do it for $50.
To use the 3.5 cams, you must use cam spacers.
(ripped from Japmaxse)
I felt it was time that someone did something like this and I figured it would help me to understand the swap that I'm about to do. Some of it was shamelessly ripped from other threads. I'm sure there's prolly something in here is not completely accurate. Feel free to
me for any errors or let me know of any worthwhile additions. 3.5 swap procedure
This guide assumes you will be using the 3.0 wiring harness with a 95-01 ECU.
Tools needed:
Cherry picker (engine hoist)
Metric socket set
Torque wrench
Gasket scraper
Breaker bar (for the crank pulley only)
Air tools are a great time saver
Floor jack
Jack stands
Common sense
A buddy to help you mount the engine and lock the flywheel in place when taking off the crank pulley.
95-99 FSM
When you receive the engine, do a leakdown test to verify the health of the engine. You don’t want to go through the work of putting in the engine only to find out that there’s a problem with it.
To use the 3.0 ECU, you must use the 3.0 inner and outer timing cases, chain, and sprockets. You can use the 3.5 cams. You have to enlarge this hole in order to use the VQ30 timing cases. You need to enlarge the corresponding hole on the left side of the timing chain case as well.
(shamelessly ripped from Nismo3114)
And you have to drill the intake cams in order to reposition the dowel hole or have Tilleys99 do it for $50.
To use the 3.5 cams, you must use cam spacers.
(ripped from Japmaxse)
09-24-2005, 10:48 AM
#2
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Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Interior Alaska
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You will need to modify the TB to be cable driven or use the 01-02 Mallfinder TB.
(Shamelessly ripped from Nismo3112)
The cable plate from the 4th gen maxima bolts onto the 3.5TB butterfly rod PERFECTLY, you just need to add a small washer for it to clear.
Things to make it work:
1.The TB is flipped upsidedown
2. still have to dremel a little off of that gold piece that goes with the TPS, and make a bracket for it to work. The gold piece to the left of the TPS you see in the pic, will go on the rod before the nut.
3. A stopping nub is shaved off, the other stopping nub was shaved some.
Getting the TPS to turn nicely with the throttle rod is the hard part.
This is much easier than finding a Mallfinder TB, and cheaper. It saves $100-200 from having to buy a Mallfinder TB for the swap.
(Shamelessly ripped from Nismo3112)
The cable plate from the 4th gen maxima bolts onto the 3.5TB butterfly rod PERFECTLY, you just need to add a small washer for it to clear.
Things to make it work:
1.The TB is flipped upsidedown
2. still have to dremel a little off of that gold piece that goes with the TPS, and make a bracket for it to work. The gold piece to the left of the TPS you see in the pic, will go on the rod before the nut.
3. A stopping nub is shaved off, the other stopping nub was shaved some.
Getting the TPS to turn nicely with the throttle rod is the hard part.
This is much easier than finding a Mallfinder TB, and cheaper. It saves $100-200 from having to buy a Mallfinder TB for the swap.
09-24-2005, 10:49 AM
#4
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If you want to use the 3.5 injectors and fuel rail (and you should), you'll need to convert your fuel system to returnless or you'll need to add a FPR in place of one of the 5.5gen dampers like Nismo3112 did here:
All you need to do is put a tee in the fuel line between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. One leg of the tee goes to the (unmodified) fuel rail, the other leg goes to the fpr and from thence to the return line to the tank. Voila, a returnless system, as far as the fuel rail is concerned.
Here's a picture that hopefully will make it more clear. (Courtesy of Stephen Max)
The FPR needs to be around 51PSI or be adjustable. There’s a NISMO adjustable one at courtesy parts for $127. I bought a generic one with a dial on it off of fleabay for $45.
According to JClaw, you can keep the VQ35 oil pan and all the accessories will still bolt on. You can use the 3.0 oil pans and still retain the 3.5 oil cooler. The oil cooler bolts right on to the 3.0 oil pan. This way, you don't have to remove any material to have the 3.0 CPS sit at the right distance from the signal plate and you don't have to plug the coolant hole. If you use the 3.5 oil pans, you have to shave about 1/4 inch off where the CPS at trans goes, If not the sensor is too far away to read the flywheel. I would rather not remove the lower and upper 3.5 oil pans. That's more work than just shaving 1/4 of an inch off.
Replace all injector harness connectors with VQ30DE-K or VQ35 connectors.
Make a mounting plate for the 4th gen IACV and route the idle air hose to somewhere into the intake manifold.
You will have to remove all of the ignition coil harness overwrap in order to be able to connect the ignition coil harness connectors to the coils. Rewrap with electrical tape once you have them rerouted.
You should replace the hoses, belts, and fuel filter.
All you need to do is put a tee in the fuel line between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. One leg of the tee goes to the (unmodified) fuel rail, the other leg goes to the fpr and from thence to the return line to the tank. Voila, a returnless system, as far as the fuel rail is concerned.
Here's a picture that hopefully will make it more clear. (Courtesy of Stephen Max)
The FPR needs to be around 51PSI or be adjustable. There’s a NISMO adjustable one at courtesy parts for $127. I bought a generic one with a dial on it off of fleabay for $45.
According to JClaw, you can keep the VQ35 oil pan and all the accessories will still bolt on. You can use the 3.0 oil pans and still retain the 3.5 oil cooler. The oil cooler bolts right on to the 3.0 oil pan. This way, you don't have to remove any material to have the 3.0 CPS sit at the right distance from the signal plate and you don't have to plug the coolant hole. If you use the 3.5 oil pans, you have to shave about 1/4 inch off where the CPS at trans goes, If not the sensor is too far away to read the flywheel. I would rather not remove the lower and upper 3.5 oil pans. That's more work than just shaving 1/4 of an inch off.
Replace all injector harness connectors with VQ30DE-K or VQ35 connectors.
Make a mounting plate for the 4th gen IACV and route the idle air hose to somewhere into the intake manifold.
You will have to remove all of the ignition coil harness overwrap in order to be able to connect the ignition coil harness connectors to the coils. Rewrap with electrical tape once you have them rerouted.
You should replace the hoses, belts, and fuel filter.
09-24-2005, 10:50 AM
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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FAQ:
What does it cost?
$700-$1200 for a used, low mileage engine. Check car-part.com
$250-$400 for an upgraded clutch
$80 - RPM switch
$50 – drilling of the 3.5 intake cams
$80 - JWT cam spacers
$50-125 - FPR
$50-$100 - misc. tools and supplies you will need - couple of tubes of RTV sealent, belts, fuel filter, hoses, etc.
Is there anyone that can do it for me?
Tilleys99 has a shop:
ELEVATED BODYWORKS
1330 North St Rt 934
Annville PA 17003
717-867-0381
Tilley does the swap for $3000 installed.
Stephen Max has also done some swaps for other people. I will do swaps for people in UT.
Who has done the swap?
JCLAW (QC), Tilleys99 (PA), vsamoylov (PA), Stephen Max (TX), Dubbya (TX), Nismo3112 (IA), Krismax (NY),.... Contact me to add your name to the list.
Where can I get an engine?
A local junkyard would be best. If you can't find something locally that is suitable try car-part.com. Tilleys99 sells prepped 3.5's that are ready to drop in for either $1500 or $2000???
Can I use the 02-06 ECU?
Yes, but it’s a pain in the rear end and you basically have to rewire the car. If you choose this route, you’d better have a wrecked 02-06 that you can cannibalise parts from.
What are the pros of using a 02-06 ECU?
Better timing, E-gas, variable cam timing, 5-10whp more.
What are the cons of using a 02-06 ECU?
Wiring, higher cost, $hitty fuel maps above 6000rpm, 100% throttle at 6000rpm really means only 80%. The fuel maps and E-gas problems are fixed by ECU upgrades.
What are the pros of using the 95-99 ECU?
Easy wiring, lower cost.
What are the cons of using the 95-99 ECU?
Crappy timing, fuel maps, lack of variable cam timing.
How hard could the wiring for the 02-06 ECU really be?
Here's what JCLAW had to say about that.....
The thing that really f*cks everything up is drive by wire. Sure, you can simply swap in the main harness and not worry about anything else, but then oh no, the drive by wire harness is part of the body/electrical harness, a bunch of taped-together wires the size of your d*ck, pick and choose, find the good one, then you have to buy the steering column from a 02 Altima or Maxima, rip both apart, and try to fit the ignition equipment from the newer car in the older column, which leads to another problem.
Oops, the airbags are on the same harness, so won't work. Then oops, you're trying to fit the 02 Altima drive-by-wire gas pedal and it wont fit, it should be on the floor right where the steering column base is. No problem, just try to shape/weld some complex bracket there so the gas pedal is where it should be.
Then you have to drill 2 1-1.5" holes in your firewall, because the 02 Altima has more electrical hardware in the front than your 4th gen does, and those harnesses are essential because, remember, the drive by wire (10-12 wires I believe) is part of it, so you have to use it, that means you have to rip apart your entire interior, and hope to hell that the 02 Altima you got it from has a sunroof if you have one, if not, no more sunroof.
Then, you have to hope as hell the wires will plug into your electric door motors, and oops, they don't, so you have to buy the 02 Altima door motors for your electrical windows to work, that's in addition to the engine (1 grand), and another grand's worth of ECU, 3 complete wiring harnesses and an electronic gas pedal whose signal no one can crack. So you hope like sh*t that the electrical door motors from the Altima will fit in your 4th gen, but the f*ckers won't! So now you gotta weld complicated brackets into your doors (!!), thus adding weight to your car, just to make the f*cking window motors work!
Then you have to rewire all connectors for every single light in the car, and hope to hell the gauge cluster from the 02 Altima works in your dash... oops, it doesn't. No problem, right? Just cut the dash apart. Then you have to fit all the electrical hardware in the engine bay, in a platform that wasn't made for it.
Fans? Radiator? AC? Forget it. And the transmission? Nope, not the same sensor, plug is different, aw sh*t car won't start, you need the immobilizer. Big black box.
No problem, go back to a junkyard, if you can find one that'll sell it to you. Oops, sold. Get the immobilizer from another car, right? Sh*t, the ECU, ignition key, and immobilizer ALL MUST come from the same car, so if the immobilizer doesn't match the ECU and ignition key of the very same car, it won't start, ever, and since you don't have the same exact immobilizer, means you're quite completely f*cked now, doesn't it?
But, but, I'd really like to have the better timing, better fuel maps......
Get a Technosquare or JWT ECU and have them advance the hell out of the timing. Alternatively, you could get a E-manage Ultimate and do the same thing and be able to alter the A/F ratio.
Where can I get the 4th GEN FSM?
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...sm/a32-for.pdf
What comes with a junkyard engine?
Full wiring harness, coil packs, exhaust manifolds, IM, TB, water pump, all sensors. They usually do not come with any of the accessories-starter, alternator, PS pump, A/C compressor.
How much power will I get?
stock: 200whp/220wtq
Some mods: 230-240whp 230-240wtq
How fast will it be?
With mods, low to mid 13’s in the ¼ and 5's 0-60. No mods, high 13’s. low 6's for 0-60.
Is it a direct drop in?
Yes, and no. Externally the 3.5 and the 3.0 blocks are pretty much the same and everything bolts right up. The sensors, fuel rail, and fuel injectors are not the same.
Can I use my 5 speed?
Yes, it bolts right up.
Can I use the 6 speed?
Yes, it bolts right up, but it’s a lot of work. The consensus is that it's not worth it unless your 5 speed has assumed room temperature.
The 5 speed is rod-driven and the 6 speed is cable driven. In addition, the flywheel is different. The 4th gen ECU will not be able to read the 6 speed flywheel. You need to hack a 6 speed flywheel to have the 5speed CPS ring to use it with the 4th gen ECU. You will also need to get different axles (CV joints). You will need to get the 6 speed tranny mount and bolt it to the frame. You will also need to get the 6speed shifter assembly.
Do I need to upgrade my clutch?
YES, at least a stage 1 clutch, stock 5.5gen, or Altima 3.5SE clutch. The stock 4th gen clutch will not hold the TQ the 3.5 puts out.
Can I use my autotragic?
Yes, but they're some debate whether the 4th gen auto can handle the power. Some say the 95-03 4spd autos are all the same and some say the 02-03's are beefed up. Autos in general usually take more TQ well and I think that a 4th gen auto should work fine, assuming it's in good mechanical condition.
What mods are recommended for the swap?
Headers or the 4th gen exhaust manifold with a y-pipe are highly recommended. This frees up around 20-25whp. Intake is maybe 5whp. UDP is also a good mod. I recommend the Motostorm UDP. Check out the group deals forum for this. The UDP for the 3.0L is the same except the 3.5L UDP doesn't have the timing ring.
Do the 3.0L headers (exhaust manifolds) fit on the 3.5 block?
Yes, everything matches up perfectly. If you're not using aftermarket headers, I highly recommend that the 3.0L headers be used since they don't have any precats in them.
3.5L stock headers with the 3.0L stock Y-pipe would be VERY restrictive. Don't do this unless you want to have potentially less power than your 3.0L had.
Can I use other 3.5 engines other than the maxima 3.5?
You can use the 3.5 from the Maxima, Altima, Murano, Quest, and I35. You CANNOT use the G35, 350Z, Frontier, or Mallfinder engines because they are RWD.
Does the Altima SE-R and the 04-06 Maxima engines really have more power? What are the differences?
The consensus is that they have a little more power due to ECU tuning and a slightly different IM. The difference is probably 5hp or less. The 04-06 Maxima engine has an external EGR valve, so it would be easier to pass emissions in most states with an external EGR than trying to convince them that the exhaust cams do it in the 02-03.
Can I use the TB (E-gas) that comes with the engine?
If you use the 02-06 ECU, you can use the E-Gass TB. If you use the 95-01 ECU, you will need to mod it to be cable-driven or use the 01-02 Mallfinder TB.
If you want a better 5th gear for highway cruising or want a more aggressive final gear, you can do what jclaw did and swap out the final gear and 5th gear from other transmissions. I'll have to find jclaw's thread for that.
Can I use the 3.0 heads on the 3.5 block?
Yes, but this is not what you want to do. The 3.5 heads flow better and get better HP and TQ.
Can I use the 00VI on 3.5 heads/block.
Yes, but the ports don’t match up. Many think the 00VI flows better, but no one's done a dyno yet. If you want to go this route, you should get pathfinder heads that have ports that line up with the 00VI IM. Putting the 00VI on the maxima 3.5 heads may lose you some power. I recommend using the 3.5 maxima heads and waiting for a decent IM from SR20DE or from kinetix.
You can read about the new kinetix manifold here:
http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=193864
Can I use the 350z/G35 IM?
NO, it won’t have the TB in the right place and it won’t fit under the hood. In addition, the mounting holes don’t line up and the ports don’t match up. Thank you Nissan!!! The 350z IM may line up with 04/05 maxima engines, but you would still have to find a way to get it to fit under the hood and make a mount for the TB.
What does it cost?
$700-$1200 for a used, low mileage engine. Check car-part.com
$250-$400 for an upgraded clutch
$80 - RPM switch
$50 – drilling of the 3.5 intake cams
$80 - JWT cam spacers
$50-125 - FPR
$50-$100 - misc. tools and supplies you will need - couple of tubes of RTV sealent, belts, fuel filter, hoses, etc.
Is there anyone that can do it for me?
Tilleys99 has a shop:
ELEVATED BODYWORKS
1330 North St Rt 934
Annville PA 17003
717-867-0381
Tilley does the swap for $3000 installed.
Stephen Max has also done some swaps for other people. I will do swaps for people in UT.
Who has done the swap?
JCLAW (QC), Tilleys99 (PA), vsamoylov (PA), Stephen Max (TX), Dubbya (TX), Nismo3112 (IA), Krismax (NY),.... Contact me to add your name to the list.
Where can I get an engine?
A local junkyard would be best. If you can't find something locally that is suitable try car-part.com. Tilleys99 sells prepped 3.5's that are ready to drop in for either $1500 or $2000???
Can I use the 02-06 ECU?
Yes, but it’s a pain in the rear end and you basically have to rewire the car. If you choose this route, you’d better have a wrecked 02-06 that you can cannibalise parts from.
What are the pros of using a 02-06 ECU?
Better timing, E-gas, variable cam timing, 5-10whp more.
What are the cons of using a 02-06 ECU?
Wiring, higher cost, $hitty fuel maps above 6000rpm, 100% throttle at 6000rpm really means only 80%. The fuel maps and E-gas problems are fixed by ECU upgrades.
What are the pros of using the 95-99 ECU?
Easy wiring, lower cost.
What are the cons of using the 95-99 ECU?
Crappy timing, fuel maps, lack of variable cam timing.
How hard could the wiring for the 02-06 ECU really be?
Here's what JCLAW had to say about that.....
The thing that really f*cks everything up is drive by wire. Sure, you can simply swap in the main harness and not worry about anything else, but then oh no, the drive by wire harness is part of the body/electrical harness, a bunch of taped-together wires the size of your d*ck, pick and choose, find the good one, then you have to buy the steering column from a 02 Altima or Maxima, rip both apart, and try to fit the ignition equipment from the newer car in the older column, which leads to another problem.
Oops, the airbags are on the same harness, so won't work. Then oops, you're trying to fit the 02 Altima drive-by-wire gas pedal and it wont fit, it should be on the floor right where the steering column base is. No problem, just try to shape/weld some complex bracket there so the gas pedal is where it should be.
Then you have to drill 2 1-1.5" holes in your firewall, because the 02 Altima has more electrical hardware in the front than your 4th gen does, and those harnesses are essential because, remember, the drive by wire (10-12 wires I believe) is part of it, so you have to use it, that means you have to rip apart your entire interior, and hope to hell that the 02 Altima you got it from has a sunroof if you have one, if not, no more sunroof.
Then, you have to hope as hell the wires will plug into your electric door motors, and oops, they don't, so you have to buy the 02 Altima door motors for your electrical windows to work, that's in addition to the engine (1 grand), and another grand's worth of ECU, 3 complete wiring harnesses and an electronic gas pedal whose signal no one can crack. So you hope like sh*t that the electrical door motors from the Altima will fit in your 4th gen, but the f*ckers won't! So now you gotta weld complicated brackets into your doors (!!), thus adding weight to your car, just to make the f*cking window motors work!
Then you have to rewire all connectors for every single light in the car, and hope to hell the gauge cluster from the 02 Altima works in your dash... oops, it doesn't. No problem, right? Just cut the dash apart. Then you have to fit all the electrical hardware in the engine bay, in a platform that wasn't made for it.
Fans? Radiator? AC? Forget it. And the transmission? Nope, not the same sensor, plug is different, aw sh*t car won't start, you need the immobilizer. Big black box.
No problem, go back to a junkyard, if you can find one that'll sell it to you. Oops, sold. Get the immobilizer from another car, right? Sh*t, the ECU, ignition key, and immobilizer ALL MUST come from the same car, so if the immobilizer doesn't match the ECU and ignition key of the very same car, it won't start, ever, and since you don't have the same exact immobilizer, means you're quite completely f*cked now, doesn't it?
But, but, I'd really like to have the better timing, better fuel maps......
Get a Technosquare or JWT ECU and have them advance the hell out of the timing. Alternatively, you could get a E-manage Ultimate and do the same thing and be able to alter the A/F ratio.
Where can I get the 4th GEN FSM?
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...sm/a32-for.pdf
What comes with a junkyard engine?
Full wiring harness, coil packs, exhaust manifolds, IM, TB, water pump, all sensors. They usually do not come with any of the accessories-starter, alternator, PS pump, A/C compressor.
How much power will I get?
stock: 200whp/220wtq
Some mods: 230-240whp 230-240wtq
How fast will it be?
With mods, low to mid 13’s in the ¼ and 5's 0-60. No mods, high 13’s. low 6's for 0-60.
Is it a direct drop in?
Yes, and no. Externally the 3.5 and the 3.0 blocks are pretty much the same and everything bolts right up. The sensors, fuel rail, and fuel injectors are not the same.
Can I use my 5 speed?
Yes, it bolts right up.
Can I use the 6 speed?
Yes, it bolts right up, but it’s a lot of work. The consensus is that it's not worth it unless your 5 speed has assumed room temperature.
The 5 speed is rod-driven and the 6 speed is cable driven. In addition, the flywheel is different. The 4th gen ECU will not be able to read the 6 speed flywheel. You need to hack a 6 speed flywheel to have the 5speed CPS ring to use it with the 4th gen ECU. You will also need to get different axles (CV joints). You will need to get the 6 speed tranny mount and bolt it to the frame. You will also need to get the 6speed shifter assembly.
Do I need to upgrade my clutch?
YES, at least a stage 1 clutch, stock 5.5gen, or Altima 3.5SE clutch. The stock 4th gen clutch will not hold the TQ the 3.5 puts out.
Can I use my autotragic?
Yes, but they're some debate whether the 4th gen auto can handle the power. Some say the 95-03 4spd autos are all the same and some say the 02-03's are beefed up. Autos in general usually take more TQ well and I think that a 4th gen auto should work fine, assuming it's in good mechanical condition.
What mods are recommended for the swap?
Headers or the 4th gen exhaust manifold with a y-pipe are highly recommended. This frees up around 20-25whp. Intake is maybe 5whp. UDP is also a good mod. I recommend the Motostorm UDP. Check out the group deals forum for this. The UDP for the 3.0L is the same except the 3.5L UDP doesn't have the timing ring.
Do the 3.0L headers (exhaust manifolds) fit on the 3.5 block?
Yes, everything matches up perfectly. If you're not using aftermarket headers, I highly recommend that the 3.0L headers be used since they don't have any precats in them.
3.5L stock headers with the 3.0L stock Y-pipe would be VERY restrictive. Don't do this unless you want to have potentially less power than your 3.0L had.
Can I use other 3.5 engines other than the maxima 3.5?
You can use the 3.5 from the Maxima, Altima, Murano, Quest, and I35. You CANNOT use the G35, 350Z, Frontier, or Mallfinder engines because they are RWD.
Does the Altima SE-R and the 04-06 Maxima engines really have more power? What are the differences?
The consensus is that they have a little more power due to ECU tuning and a slightly different IM. The difference is probably 5hp or less. The 04-06 Maxima engine has an external EGR valve, so it would be easier to pass emissions in most states with an external EGR than trying to convince them that the exhaust cams do it in the 02-03.
Can I use the TB (E-gas) that comes with the engine?
If you use the 02-06 ECU, you can use the E-Gass TB. If you use the 95-01 ECU, you will need to mod it to be cable-driven or use the 01-02 Mallfinder TB.
If you want a better 5th gear for highway cruising or want a more aggressive final gear, you can do what jclaw did and swap out the final gear and 5th gear from other transmissions. I'll have to find jclaw's thread for that.
Can I use the 3.0 heads on the 3.5 block?
Yes, but this is not what you want to do. The 3.5 heads flow better and get better HP and TQ.
Can I use the 00VI on 3.5 heads/block.
Yes, but the ports don’t match up. Many think the 00VI flows better, but no one's done a dyno yet. If you want to go this route, you should get pathfinder heads that have ports that line up with the 00VI IM. Putting the 00VI on the maxima 3.5 heads may lose you some power. I recommend using the 3.5 maxima heads and waiting for a decent IM from SR20DE or from kinetix.
You can read about the new kinetix manifold here:
http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=193864
Can I use the 350z/G35 IM?
NO, it won’t have the TB in the right place and it won’t fit under the hood. In addition, the mounting holes don’t line up and the ports don’t match up. Thank you Nissan!!! The 350z IM may line up with 04/05 maxima engines, but you would still have to find a way to get it to fit under the hood and make a mount for the TB.
Dubbya
Dubbya
Dubbya
Dubbya
Dubbya
09-24-2005, 10:58 AM
#9
Good work, right on the money! Mods make this a sticky!
Pic of how the TB cable is installed if converting a 2k2 TB: note that this isnt the only way to do it, be creative, but whatever you do, do not mount it on the firewall, your car will jerk like there is no tomorrow! (speaking from experience)
Finished product:
Pic of how the TB cable is installed if converting a 2k2 TB: note that this isnt the only way to do it, be creative, but whatever you do, do not mount it on the firewall, your car will jerk like there is no tomorrow! (speaking from experience)
Finished product:
09-24-2005, 01:49 PM
#11
Helicopters! Money!!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Interior Alaska
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by cerumo
What about the udp? I remember reading a thread that says 3.0 and 3.5 uses the same udp. Is this correct?
09-28-2005, 08:23 AM
#12
Originally Posted by foobeca
According to JClaw, you can keep the VQ35 oil pan and all the accessories will still bolt on. If you keep the VQ35 oil pan, you can keep the VQ35 oil filter cooler and you don't have to plug the coolant hole on the backside of the block. If you use the 3.5 oil pans, you have to shave about 1/4 inch off where the CPS at trans goes, If not the sensor is too far away to read the flywheel.
Originally Posted by foobeca
What are the pros of using a 02-06 ECU?
Better timing, E-gas, variable cam timing, better fuel maps, 5-10whp more.
Better timing, E-gas, variable cam timing, better fuel maps, 5-10whp more.
Originally Posted by foobeca
Can I use the 00VI on 3.5 heads/block.
Yes, but the ports don’t match up. There’s no question that the 00VI flows better than the 02-05 “VI,” but not having the ports match up probably nullifies most or all potential gains.
Yes, but the ports don’t match up. There’s no question that the 00VI flows better than the 02-05 “VI,” but not having the ports match up probably nullifies most or all potential gains.
Other than that, excellent write-up. I certainly wouldn't have the patience to compile all this info. Good job.
09-28-2005, 08:39 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by nismology
There is no indisputable evidence that says that the 00VI is more suitable to the 3.5 than the stock 2k2 IM. If i missed it, can you link me?
I think if someone were to use the pathfinder heads (whose ports match the 00VI) and use the 00VI, they would make some very nice top end power similar to that of SR20DEN.
09-28-2005, 08:42 AM
#14
Originally Posted by foobeca
I didn't say it was more suitable, I just said that there's no question that the 00VI flows better. The problem with using a 00VI on a 3.5L is that the ports don't match up which may nullify most or all gains. A DE-K can almost get the same peak power as a 3.5L and it gets its peak power at redline whereas the 3.5L IM peaks a little under 6000rpm. The 3.5L IM is almost as *****y as the 3.0L USIM.
Originally Posted by nismology
Better fuel maps is questionable. The stock 3.5 ECU runs rich after 5000 RPM. Towards redline the stock 3.5 ECU brings the a/f ratio down to a super-rich 10.5:1 or so to encourage an early upshift. The 3.0 ECU does no such thing. 12:1 at the worst. Not to mention that the E-throttle body closes by as much as 20% as the engine approches redline. Once again, this is to encourage an early upshift. You have to get at least an L-Spec ECU from Technosquare to fix this. Credit: Technosquare's website
I think if someone were to use the pathfinder heads (whose ports match the 00VI) and use the 00VI, they would make some very nice top end power similar to that of SR20DEN.
09-28-2005, 08:47 AM
#15
My point is this. This is a write-up and should include objective information. Saying the 00VI flows better than the 2k2 IM beyond a shadow of a doubt is your opinion and speculative at best and should not be included in a write-up. If it IS to be included, include the fact that 1. That is your opinion and/or 2. There is no dyno evidence to back up that claim.
09-28-2005, 04:57 PM
#16
I don't mean to fight with you. I just want the masses to be informed. Can you at least include this part of what i said? Credit tilley for that info. I got it from him through an IM conversation.
And it would also be beneficial to everyone if you stated that the 00VI > 2k2 IM thing is purely speculation and dyno evidence is pending so people don't go into this swap thinking they simply must buy a 00VI to tap the full potential of the motor when there's no proof it's better to begin with. (Holy run-on sentence batman!!!
) It adds hundreds of dollars to the price of the swap and adds complexity and time to the install. All because somebody on the org THINKS it will be better.
Originally Posted by nismology
It is possible to reuse the 3.0 oil pans and still retain the 3.5 oil cooler. The oil cooler bolts right on to the 3.0 oil pan. This way, you don't have to remove any material to have the 3.0 CPS sit at the right distance from the signal plate and you don't have to plug the coolant hole.
) It adds hundreds of dollars to the price of the swap and adds complexity and time to the install. All because somebody on the org THINKS it will be better.
09-28-2005, 08:34 PM
#18
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We haven't seen the full potential of this swap yet. Not until someone advances the hell out of the timing and gets an intake manifold that flows really well from 5000-7000.
Nice writeup, I can't come up with anything else right now, but I'll add something when I do.
Best mod for the money IMO, a 3.5 and headers will take a stock low 15-second 4th gen 5-speed and put it in the high 13s, on street tires. I think a good driver could manage a mid 13 on streets, but it won't be me.
Nice writeup, I can't come up with anything else right now, but I'll add something when I do.
Best mod for the money IMO, a 3.5 and headers will take a stock low 15-second 4th gen 5-speed and put it in the high 13s, on street tires. I think a good driver could manage a mid 13 on streets, but it won't be me.
09-28-2005, 09:50 PM
#19
Originally Posted by JClaw
We haven't seen the full potential of this swap yet. Not until someone advances the hell out of the timing and gets an intake manifold that flows really well from 5000-7000.
09-30-2005, 07:37 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by JClaw
We haven't seen the full potential of this swap yet. Not until someone advances the hell out of the timing and gets an intake manifold that flows really well from 5000-7000.
Nice writeup, I can't come up with anything else right now, but I'll add something when I do.
Best mod for the money IMO, a 3.5 and headers will take a stock low 15-second 4th gen 5-speed and put it in the high 13s, on street tires. I think a good driver could manage a mid 13 on streets, but it won't be me.
Nice writeup, I can't come up with anything else right now, but I'll add something when I do.
Best mod for the money IMO, a 3.5 and headers will take a stock low 15-second 4th gen 5-speed and put it in the high 13s, on street tires. I think a good driver could manage a mid 13 on streets, but it won't be me.
09-30-2005, 09:33 AM
#21
Originally Posted by nismology
Thanks for reminding me. Another reason no one has seen the full potential is because everyone is running the stock return-style setup. With this setup, the fuel in the tank is heated up alot and is a detriment to performance. This is due to the fuel passing through the fuel rail (which gets VERY hot due to it's proximity to the heads) over and over again as it goes back to the tank and returns. The 5.5 gen returnless setup keeps the fuel cool which has a cooling effect on the intake charge which improves combustion efficiency.
09-30-2005, 10:40 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Playboycutie69
how may I ask did u do that? (future reference)
The fuel rail is returnless. There is still a return line.
09-30-2005, 12:04 PM
#24
Originally Posted by eng92
External fpr in the pressure (feed) line between tank and fuel rail. Fpr dumps into existing return line.
The fuel rail is returnless. There is still a return line.
The fuel rail is returnless. There is still a return line.
You have to put a tee in the fuel line going from the fuel filter to the fuel rail. One leg of the tee goes to the fuel rail, the other leg of the tee goes to the fpr, and from there back to the tank.
It is not exactly the same as the 6th gen returnless system, but it does prevent fuel from being heated in the fuel rail and then returning to the tank.
And, you don't have to do anything to the fuel rail.
09-30-2005, 12:10 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Correct.
You have to put a tee in the fuel line going from the fuel filter to the fuel rail. One leg of the tee goes to the fuel rail, the other leg of the tee goes to the fpr, and from there back to the tank.
It is not exactly the same as the 6th gen returnless system, but it does prevent fuel from being heated in the fuel rail and then returning to the tank.
And, you don't have to do anything to the fuel rail.
You have to put a tee in the fuel line going from the fuel filter to the fuel rail. One leg of the tee goes to the fuel rail, the other leg of the tee goes to the fpr, and from there back to the tank.
It is not exactly the same as the 6th gen returnless system, but it does prevent fuel from being heated in the fuel rail and then returning to the tank.
And, you don't have to do anything to the fuel rail.
It's kinda hard for me to visualize it.
09-30-2005, 12:42 PM
#26
Originally Posted by nismology
Do you have any up-close pictures of Dubbya's setup? It's kinda hard for me to visualize it.
It's kinda hard for me to visualize it.
09-30-2005, 03:53 PM
#27
Cool. Thanks.
One other question. Does Dubbya's FPR have a vacuum source? Like is it at 53 PSI WOT and 43 PSI at idle for instance, or are you running it with no vacuum so it's at 53 PSI full-time like the 5.5 gens? The reason i'm asking is becaused i'm wondering about the closed-loop a/f ratios these guys are seeing with the larger injectors and if the 4G ECU can compensate enough to maintain a stoich mixture. I'd love it if someone could record some a/f data during closed-loop.
One other question. Does Dubbya's FPR have a vacuum source? Like is it at 53 PSI WOT and 43 PSI at idle for instance, or are you running it with no vacuum so it's at 53 PSI full-time like the 5.5 gens? The reason i'm asking is becaused i'm wondering about the closed-loop a/f ratios these guys are seeing with the larger injectors and if the 4G ECU can compensate enough to maintain a stoich mixture. I'd love it if someone could record some a/f data during closed-loop.
09-30-2005, 06:54 PM
#29
Originally Posted by nismology
Cool. Thanks.
One other question. Does Dubbya's FPR have a vacuum source? Like is it at 53 PSI WOT and 43 PSI at idle for instance, or are you running it with no vacuum so it's at 53 PSI full-time like the 5.5 gens? The reason i'm asking is becaused i'm wondering about the closed-loop a/f ratios these guys are seeing with the larger injectors and if the 4G ECU can compensate enough to maintain a stoich mixture. I'd love it if someone could record some a/f data during closed-loop.
One other question. Does Dubbya's FPR have a vacuum source? Like is it at 53 PSI WOT and 43 PSI at idle for instance, or are you running it with no vacuum so it's at 53 PSI full-time like the 5.5 gens? The reason i'm asking is becaused i'm wondering about the closed-loop a/f ratios these guys are seeing with the larger injectors and if the 4G ECU can compensate enough to maintain a stoich mixture. I'd love it if someone could record some a/f data during closed-loop.
I did connect a vacuum source to the fpr for the simple reason that that is what the 4th gen ecu fuel mapping is based on. I'm not sure it really matters a whole lot, though.
09-30-2005, 07:00 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Nismo3112
Just wanted to add in picture #1 in the first post, you have to do the same thing with a hole on the other half of the block, in that same area.
09-30-2005, 07:06 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Stephen Max
All I've got is this pic that shows the tee in the fuel line between the filter and the fuel rail, but it does not show the fpr coming off the other leg of the tee.
09-30-2005, 07:45 PM
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BTW, add Krismax to the list of those who have the swap. He's in NY I think. Jime is also doing his, not sure if he's finished. And I'm in QC, not ON, not that it matters much 
09-30-2005, 07:48 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
I did connect a vacuum source to the fpr for the simple reason that that is what the 4th gen ecu fuel mapping is based on. I'm not sure it really matters a whole lot, though.
10-01-2005, 12:26 AM
#34
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BTW, add Krismax to the list of those who have the swap. He's in NY I think. Jime is also doing his, not sure if he's finished. And I'm in QC, not ON, not that it matters much
Who's Jim and how much does he do the install for? Is he knowledgable with this swap?
Who's Jim and how much does he do the install for? Is he knowledgable with this swap?
10-01-2005, 09:13 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by nismology
I'm not quite following you. Do you mean open-loop mapping or closed-loop? I'm concerned primarily that the ECU can't make such a large correction itself to maintain a stoich mixture and that lowering of the base FP might be necessary. This could affect gas mileage negatively.
I don't think it would really be a problem to have the FP at 53PSI all the time. The ECU will make adjustments because it will see a rich mixture through the O2 sensors and make the pulses to the injectors shorter. If you have the FP less than 53PSI with the 3.5 injectors, you won't get good atomization. I think this kinda underscores the need to get a SAFC or a E-manage.
10-01-2005, 10:21 AM
#36
Originally Posted by foobeca
I thought a bit about this....
I don't think it would really be a problem to have the FP at 53PSI all the time. The ECU will make adjustments because it will see a rich mixture through the O2 sensors and make the pulses to the injectors shorter. If you have the FP less than 53PSI with the 3.5 injectors, you won't get good atomization. I think this kinda underscores the need to get a SAFC or a E-manage.
I don't think it would really be a problem to have the FP at 53PSI all the time. The ECU will make adjustments because it will see a rich mixture through the O2 sensors and make the pulses to the injectors shorter. If you have the FP less than 53PSI with the 3.5 injectors, you won't get good atomization. I think this kinda underscores the need to get a SAFC or a E-manage.
And what we're talking about wouldn't concern a S-AFC or E-manage since they can only make changes that stick during open-loop. With the 4G ECU, this occurs at >40% throttle and at 3000+RPM. If these 2 condition aren't met, the ECU just reverts to a stoich mixture regardless of the settings on a piggyback.
10-01-2005, 11:00 AM
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Tilley is the only one I know of that got a dyno with the 3.5 swap and a 4th gen ECU. It'd be great if he could chime in and tell us about the A/F ratio during closed loop.
I don't think the 4th gen ECU can make infinite adjustments, but I do think it will be able to adjust enough to maintain a stoich A/F ratio during closed loop.
I don't think the 4th gen ECU can make infinite adjustments, but I do think it will be able to adjust enough to maintain a stoich A/F ratio during closed loop.
10-01-2005, 11:40 AM
#38
Originally Posted by foobeca
Tilley is the only one I know of that got a dyno with the 3.5 swap and a 4th gen ECU. It'd be great if he could chime in and tell us about the A/F ratio during closed loop.
I don't think the 4th gen ECU can make infinite adjustments, but I do think it will be able to adjust enough to maintain a stoich A/F ratio during closed loop.
10-01-2005, 11:45 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by nismology
Dyno operators don't pay attention to the a/f ratio at closed-loop because it's just assumed it will be stoich. And i doubt he'd go back to the dyno just for that.
How come I see a lot of dyno plots with a A/F ratio plot as well?
10-01-2005, 11:54 AM
#40
IIRC there is a limit to the A/F tuning that the ECU can do. The closed loop have set software limits and once there exceeded and the A/F is still rich it will probally throw a code.
Don't know about the Emanage but the SMT-7 has closed loop A/F tuning by adjusting the primary o2 sensor voltage outputs.
Don't know about the Emanage but the SMT-7 has closed loop A/F tuning by adjusting the primary o2 sensor voltage outputs.