Rear GC/Koni noise and excessive wear

[98SEBlackMax]

I've been running the Koni/GC combo on the rear of the car for a few weeks and I got this result...



These are the upper hats and washers that got chewed up.

GC was nice enough to send me another set of upper aluminum hats and some other smaller washers. They claimed that I was sent the wrong instructions originally when the paper clearly said the install was for Koni yellows. So when the new hats came in, the paper work said they were for AGXs.

Anyways I swapped out the new hats and washers, the same sound and clunking was there. Took apart the struts and the same wear is occuring to the new upper hats. Question I have is this wear and noise normal or is there something wrong with the setup im using?

On the newest setup Im running (4th or 5th revision at this point ) I am using new koni yellows, homemade rubber spring isolators, NISMO strut bushings, no dust boots, stock OEM upper mounts, GCs with 375 lb springs, and Hypercoil 2.5" helper springs & Genesis Technologies 2.5" helper spring guides.



This is an older picture just to visualize the setup I have. As I've said im no longer using dust boots and im using a different sized washer above the gold upper spring hat.

[MorpheusZero]

Reminds me of something....

Hopefully it pans out. I have started undergoing redoing my front Konis as well so I can actually hold an alignment...

[98SEBlackMax]

Originally Posted by MorpheusZero

Reminds me of something....

Hopefully it pans out. I have started undergoing redoing my front Konis as well so I can actually hold an alignment...

Im also running at stock ride height, not even lowered yet.

The front Konis are not even in yet, im trying to get the rear working ok before I install the fronts.

I have to admit it has got ALOT better over the last couple of revisions with regards to noise. I've also got a decent rebound ALMOST dialed in for the spring rate.

[MorpheusZero]

I've got mine set to full firm with Eibachs and I feel like it's about right. I'm afraid if I go to 450/375 from 250ish/180ish that things are going to get bouncy. Got any videos of your car in action?

[98SEBlackMax]

Im thinking of drilling two small holes on each GC upper spring hat and zip tying them to the top of the springs? This should keep the hat and spring centered and should stop that nibbling.

[MorpheusZero]

Which "revision" of GCs do you have?

Any pics of the rear assembly disassembled?

[Matt93SE]

The bump stop needs to go inside the spring, not above it. right now, you've got the entire weight of the rear end supported by a soft rubber bushing. it keeps compressing and the GC upper spring perch slides against the strut as it compresses and wears on both the strut shaft and the top hat.

[JSutter]

Matt, thats somewhat true, but there needs to be a bushing under the OEM mount. There is no other way for the rear suspension to flex. Its not a bump stop BTW.

Joe I know you have it close, you have already seen my pix, so Im not much more help.

Good reference:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...t_1/index.html
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member.../751162_28.jpg

[98SEBlackMax]

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

The bump stop needs to go inside the spring, not above it. right now, you've got the entire weight of the rear end supported by a soft rubber bushing. it keeps compressing and the GC upper spring perch slides against the strut as it compresses and wears on both the strut shaft and the top hat.

Heh already did that before Matt. I had the Koni bump stop outside the spring.

That star bushing is a NISMO one, it's alot stiffer than the stock star bushing. But you make a good point. I wonder how bad it would be to run this setup without the lower star bushing? There is some rubber on the strut mount so that might impart some flex and it might work.

Edit: I think we need that star bushing.





Well I took it for a short ride up and down the block just for laughs. It's floaty as expected, funny thing is that it now sounds ok on the driver's side. I kept the passenger side the same as before and it's only noisy on that side.

[98SEBlackMax]

OK figured it all out. Im an idiot...

I was looking at the stock rear struts and remembered that they have a small flange on the strut rod to hold the upper GC spring hat. I looked thru all the Koni boxes and found the two small steel bushings rolling around. I ended up taking the rears off and put the steel bushings on the Koni strut rods and drilled out some washers to fill in the gap between the rubber star bushing and the upper GC spring hat.

Everything fits together very tight now, nothing rattles around. Took the car for a spin and what do you know. Next to no noise or clanking at all. On a positive note all the other stuff I did to reduce noise and adjust the Konis makes the car ride REALLY good. The struts are almost perfectly dialed in to the springs.

So now it's on to the front struts this weekend...

[JSutter]

OH, well I didnt know the metal bushings were not on the konis from the factory! Its good to know you finally got it sorted out.

[Matt93SE]

Originally Posted by JSutter

Matt, thats somewhat true, but there needs to be a bushing under the OEM mount. There is no other way for the rear suspension to flex. Its not a bump stop BTW.

Joe I know you have it close, you have already seen my pix, so Im not much more help.

Good reference:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...t_1/index.html
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member.../751162_28.jpg

Oh yeah. been a few years since I've worked on a minivan.
either way, that much rubber in there can't be a good thing for a performance suspension. you need to figure out some other way to hold it captive and get the weight off the rubber. that rubber chunk there drops your spring rate from a decent number to crapola..

[JSutter]

Tein pillow ball mounts are the only mount available to rid the bushings, yet no one has gotten them for an a32.

[98SEBlackMax]

Originally Posted by JSutter

Tein pillow ball mounts are the only mount available to rid the bushings, yet no one has gotten them for an a32.

Do the Teins use the stock type rubber bushings? or do they provide some steel or aluminum bushings to take the place of the rubber ones?

I might give the Teins a try someday. Im getting near the cost of JIC A2s at this point of the suspension upgrade, might as well go all out.

[MorpheusZero]

Originally Posted by JSutter

Tein pillow ball mounts are the only mount available to rid the bushings, yet no one has gotten them for an a32.

I am considering them, but also being wary of what happened the last time I tried your suggestion of turd gen reds

I do not see how they could be much of a problem though. How did Ben's mounts "slip" exactly?

[Kevlo911]

Bens mounts dont hold the spring in place, my plates look just like Joe's(the strut rod not staying in the middle). My strut rod has a dent in it as well. As of right now I am using the stock mounts and it does ride better. I have yet to bottom out so I don't think I need the tiens, so I will hold off on those unless you can give me a good reason to buy them.

[MorpheusZero]

Don't hold the spring in place? How do they slip?

[Kevlo911]

It's a flat plate so the spring can slide around.

[MorpheusZero]

Gotcha.

[JSutter]

I dont know the ins and outs of the Tiens, but I did post about them with pix. They are sort of like stillen camber plates, no rubber, just a bearing.

ME and Bens mounts slip. Bens are a much crappier design and slipped like a mofo. If they had some sort of lip they would be great.

[MorpheusZero]

Josh (mowgli29) and I are looking at the Teins but it looks like they're designed with only the damper connected to the pillow ball, and the spring seated on a stationary part (a la Ben's or ME's). If you're running GCs and try the Teins, it will be putting the stress of the spring on the PB the entire time.

is there a CORRECT way to use GCs in the rear?

[mowgli29]

what he said^^

AND, is there any way to get some helper springs for the front without spending 100+?!

[98SEBlackMax]

Alright let's make sure this front setup is right. I think this will work and should not make much noise.





I got the Stillen camber plates, strut bearings, GC upper spring hats, helper springs, spring indexers, Eibach springs, and the GC height adjusters with the strut housings welded to hold the stuff all together. Im gonna get the hardware to bolt the Koni struts to housings and put in some rubber isolators on all the metal to metal contact points.

[JSutter]

Looks good to me. Youre running the konis unshortened right?