exl_ent_v6

Just a rant...
I have a '13 Nissan Altima 3.5SL and I really find it boring. It's an Altima. Everyone has an Altima. There's nothing really special. I only got it because it was a decent lease price and figured that it was at least new, versus the Maxima which has been around since '09.

My last lease was a '10 Maxima SV Premium loaded. So I went to my dealer and wanted they said I was basically **** out of luck because there is no value in the Altima. All in the new lease would have been $700 for the fully loaded Maxima, because there was about $300/mo worth of negative equity in the Altima.

Basically there are about $11k worth of payments left and the car is only worth $20k but the current buyout is $30!!! Insane. I don't know what they did to get people into Altima leases but they are impossible to get out of.

He did say to try again in May because then I'd be eligible for pull ahead that may cut significant money off. We'll see...

ugh...... sorry just ranting.....

shook187

iTrader: (5)

Technically speaking once you get into a lease its always impossible to get out of it no matter what, it doesn't matter what car it is either.

gravkillz

The pull ahead program allows you to turn in your lease up to 90 days early but you would still need to get into another lease. Doing the pull ahead program will allow you to drop the negative equity. Or... if you keep your vehicle just finance what is left on it with another banking institution. Wait until 2016 for the new Maxima to come out.

You have the 3.5L engine the body style is very close to a Maxima it would suck for you to lose out on some cash for a change in body. I understand that Altimas are a dime a dozen but yours has the 3.5L not the 2.5. Leases are designed for people who like trading in their vehicles every 1 to 2 yrs. If this is not you wait for the lease to end and get the 2016 Maxima.

Mosca

Nissan's leases are based on a high residual value, which means near "equity" isn't reached until you are almost at the end. And it isn't trade equity, it's pay out the depreciation equity.

The flip side of not getting the '14 is that the '15 will be a new design. I went from an '11 to a '14 because of the timing of my lease expiration; I really wanted to wait until the next model year.

Yeah, Altimas are nice, but they're boring. I always told people my '08 Altima was the best Buick I ever owned.

Gravkillz, is the new design now postponed until '16?

gravkillz

Nissan runs on the 7yr update plan. Nissan titan will come out in 2015 with their diesel design. The Nissan Maxima will probably come out in 2015 as the 2016 model. Releases are all dependent on timing based on press releases and stocks.

I envy my wife as she works at Nissan and is privy to shows, early release previews etc. I do often see Nissan HQ reps at the dealership and stop to ask them questions. My last question was "Could I use the Altima remote starter kit on the Maxima" the reply was "the 3.5L altima has the same engine as the Maxima I'm sure the wiring harnesses would be similar".

I asked if that was a "yes" or a "no" I got "maybe the accessories manage could help with options". He had a grin on his face which leads me to believe I could experiment with it and have success. Frustrating trying to get stuff out of them. But, I did overhear them saying the "2016 Maxima" which lead me to believe that is when it will be released. Dunno??

Mosca

Thanks, that makes me feel better about my '14 (which I love regardless). Our dealer group has a Nissan store, but other than buying Nissans I don't know much about the product, I'm in used car finance.

zoemayne

iTrader: (4)

you have one car that you havent payed off and your basically trying to buy another car... so its like your trying to buy two cars... it seems kinda silly to go from a '10 to a '13 altima to a '14 maxima... and you should of known that the altima was a dime a dozen(im saying its one on every corner)

exl_ent_v6

yeah I should have known I wouldn't be happy. To be honest if there was a way to do a 6 or 12 month lease I'd be all over it! I'm terrible like that.

I have some other reasons for trying to exit my current lease, so it's not as simple as it appears, but whatever it's not gonna happen. To be even more honest I don't really want a Maxima but I figured I'd get the best deal going from a Nissan lease to another.

#firstworldproblems

exl_ent_v6

This is the Achilles Heel of leasing a Nissan. I've had non-Nissan leases and they were fairly well balanced through out the lease-term.

Mosca

The money factor is also ridiculously low. Leasing a new Nissan can be cheaper than paying cash, if you trade every three years. There is a good chance the residual will be higher than the wholesale value.

There's more to it than that, and everyone's situation is different. You are up against one of the downsides, in that you aren't as happy with the car as you would like, but take comfort that you got a decent deal on the finance side.

13Maximasv

Aren't there services that you can advertise your lease on and basically "sell " it to somebody else ?


I'm sure somebody would hop on your lease if all you want them to do is take over the payments

13Maximasv

If you paid anywhere near sticker for a Max that is correct but very few people do. I saw a 2013 Prem/ Tech advertised for around $27k car in late December


After 39 months buying that car would have more value than a lease by far.


The current advertised Maxima S lease would be close to $15K over 39 months

Mosca

My premise is based on the residual; the selling price remains the same in either case. I post from home, without numbers handy. If I get some time tomorrow or later in the week, I'll crunch some up and see if I can justify my position. It will be close. I might take my old lease on the '11 and work it from the actual results.

One variable would be selling your car outright rather than trading it, but most people don't do that. Forum members are a self-selected class of car fanatics, and would absolutely have a higher percentage of people who would sell and reap the benefit of getting retail value at the end of their ownership.

newsat65

The new Maxima is due out this Sept as the all new 2015 Maxima!!

13Maximasv

Here is the 2014 Maxima S lease

$289/ 39 months $3,000 down ( includes first payment) total lease price $13,981 Buyout price with purchase option fee is $18,465

This is for a base S model and 12 K per year.

I can buy a 2014 Base S model using cars direct pricing for $27,103. Cars Direct is FAR from the lowest price you can get as this car is advertised for UNDER $25k quite often .

$27,103 minus the $14k the lease cost leaves us at about $13k

You would be lucky to ( private) sell a 2014 Base S Max for ~ $18,500 in 2017 let alone make up the ~$5500 difference

There is a 2011 Maxima S with 42K near my house for $14,900 from a Nissan dealer. Judging by the mileage and age this car probably just came off lease and is most likely being sold for less than the buyout price

One more leasing point, if you are young and don't have much money I believe you have to carry 100/300k insurance on a lease. I know in Connecticut you do as I was going to lease a car many years ago and at that time only carried the minimum insurance so for people who don't have at least 100/300 insurance that is another expense to factor in when deciding lease vs buy.

Mosca

I haven't had a chance to get my numbers, we've been busy. But I will definitely respond, and I have no problem being wrong, if I am. I put absolutely no value on being right on the internet. It's more fun to solve a problem and find an answer. I have to get my deal from 2011 from the Nissan F&I manager. My method will be (down payment + sum of payments) </= (selling price + t&t - wholesale value after 3 years). It should be close.

My '11 was an SV Premium, no tech package.

13Maximasv

Don't get me wrong, it's not about being right or wrong and it's all in fun.

I just think you are basing your calculations off MSRP

If you add up your lease payments and down payment that could come very close to what a person who bought the car got off the sticker price. I got $13,000 off MSRP on my car and some here have done better than me

I never even considered a Max for years and used to laugh that anyone would even consider paying $41k ( I think I saw Max's with $43K stickers also) for a loaded max.

Years later I found out new a loaded Max could be had for under $28K so I bought one

Mosca

I'm glad you see this as I do, as a puzzle worth considering, and not a disagreement.

I'm an F&I manager at a dealer group that has a Nissan franchise, the price I paid was pretty low, slightly over net. For my puzzle as presented, let's assume that the actual price paid is the same for lease or buy. High or low it shouldn't matter, only that it is the same.

The only figures that matter when determining if it is cheaper to buy or lease is the outlay over the time owned, right? On a lease, that would be payments plus any cap cost reduction. On a purchase that would be price plus fees less actual value at end. I can calculate that with or without a tax credit for a potential trade, different states allow credit or don't.

My contention, without having the actual figures in front of me, is that the residual is pumped so high that it outweighs the money factor, and at the same time is higher than the actual depreciation of the car over 36 months. My lease was 39 mo, but since Nissan bought out the last 3 I can disregard those payments and use 36 as my base; I didn't pay them.

It's a number worth knowing, don't you think? As far as which is better, the buyer's life circumstances are more important than the actual cost of leasing, financing, or paying cash (caution, potential wormhole discussion there). But I think it would be an interesting number.

13Maximasv

I don't think you can just throw out the last 3 months though as that takes into account getting into another lease or buying another car from the dealer. I don't think Nissan is saying just give us the keys and walk away and forget 3 payments.

Since you work for the dealer I think the best numbers to use are the Cars Direct Price and the Nissan advertised lease price that I listed above as anybody with a pulse can get either of those deals.

We should also make this a one time lease and say we are dumping the car at 39 months as you may not want another lease or may want to lease a different make car.

From the browsing I did of 2011 S Maximas it's safe to say you aren't buying out the lease and selling the car and making $$ on the deal. It actually seems as if the dealers are selling the returned lease cars for less than the buyout.

If you want the numbers to be really accurate you should also add gap insurance on the lease and the fact that at 39K you probably had to buy new tires and put a set of brakes on that car you are turning in. If not the dealer might hit you up for a some cash .

Sure you had to do the same on the car you bought but you will get more out of the tires/brakes if you keep the car.

As far as the "wormhole" goes I always pay cash UNLESS you offer me the rebates and 0% for 60 months

Mosca

Gap is included in the Nissan lease. I'll think about the other things, before considering. There's nothing wrong with seeing the validity of both ways.

Mosca

I'm going to skip all that other stuff, because it complicates the equation, and my contention is a simple one: that the Nissan lease program is better than paying cash from a purely monetary standpoint.

In 2011 I paid 31476, after rebates. Cash out of pocket was tags only, $199, and the payments were $366.25. ($366.25*39)+$199= $14482.75.

Had I written a check, I would have paid 31476+1888 (6% tax) + 199= $33563. NADA clean trade value right now is 19425, with a mileage addition of $600, for $20025. (I don't have the future value for the car, so lets assume I leased it 3 months earlier and kept it to maturity.) 33563-20025= $13538.

So, I was wrong, by about $950. But it's a lot closer than you might think. When I did the calculations in my head, before doing the deal, I did take into account that I would release, and wouldn't be paying the last 3 payments; if you grant me that, I was right. It's what a gambler would call an "advantage play". Not everyone will do it, but it's there.

I think the point is valid, that leasing is a viable alternative even to paying cash, if you take the 39 and re-lease early. I'm getting a new one every three years anyhow, I might as well pay it piecemeal! It isn't right for everyone, and it is NOT my intent to convince anyone, because there are so many factors that play into what is the best choice for each individual, including how they feel about debt and ownership. But the Nissan lease isn't bad at all.

Edited to add, the selling price shouldn't matter because it would get added to both sides of the equation, then subtracted from both when figuring the difference. The money factor of .00142 calculates to a rate of about 3.4%. If a customer paid $1000 more than I did, the difference over 39 months is about $57.

And, it has been a lot of fun figuring this. I absolutely don't mind getting called on it and being asked to prove my point. If I couldn't stand up to that, how could I ever raise a glass with you if we met in person?

13Maximasv

It is fun and made me look at some things closer

Getting the new car every 3 years factors in but so do the setbacks, do you carry gap insurance ? The way these cars depreciate the first year that's a big risk to take if you don't.

I might counter with I paid $30K out the door for a car with more options. if I use your lease calculations and subtract ~ $14,500 I get $15,500. If I sell my car for $20K I have $4500 left.

How does it work out if you run the numbers I gave you for a cars direct price vs Nissan Lease today ?

$289/ 39 months $3,000 down ( includes first payment) total lease price $13,981 Buyout price with purchase option fee is $18,465

This is for a base S model and 12 K per year.

I can buy a 2014 Base S model using cars direct pricing for $27,103.

Mosca

Gap is in the lease contract at no charge. NMAC accepts the insurance settlement as payment in full.

The selling price floats on both sides of the equation, the only difference is the cost of use of funds. Figure about $57 per $1000. Residuals are based on MSRP, which is static. Value at end is static.

I agree, if you retail your car yourself you will benefit. The vast majority of consumers trade. Forum members are self-selecting as car people and internet savvy, and a higher percentage will retail their vehicle and reap the reward.

I don't have current numbers for Nissan's lease program; I'm in used cars and we don't lease. I called down to our other store and had my deal sheet faxed up. And anyhow, this was enough energy to put toward a discussion on the internet, I'm not motivated to explore it further, sorry. Current money factor is .00120, the residual % I don't know, sorry.

ETA: Last week we retailed a '13 base with 24,500 miles for $19000.

13Maximasv

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion as using the S lease vs buy example I could buy a new 2014 S for about $27K out the door today easy.

The lease payments add up to about $14,000 and the buy out is ~$18,500.

There is no way that car will sell privately for $18,500 in 39 months so at the end you paid $14,000 to rent the car for 39 months.

If I subtract $14,000 off the purchase price of $27K I now owe $13,000 on the car I bought so you will have positive equity in the car.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Have a great day.

Dudemaine

iTrader: (1)

Mosca FTW!

Mosca

It's all good. The truth is I was done being interested, I was satisfied with the answer of "Not really, but close, and maybe."

DavidWilley

I find this extremely hard to believe. The dealer would be losing thousands of dollars at 28k. If u bought a brand new loaded Maxima SV for 28k I would like to shake your hand and nominate u for President of the United States. And could u please come with me the next time I'm buying a car?

Dudemaine

iTrader: (1)

I feel that the issue of location has a lot to do with this because this would never happen in the Northeast, you'd absolutely get laughed right out of the dealership.

13Maximasv

There is a guy here who says he paid $25K in early 2014 for a 2013 SV premium

Here is a SV premium advertised for 31,500 at a dealer near me that wanted more for the car than what I paid elsewhere.

http://www.lupientnissan.com/new/Nis...2a2b031ea2.htm

Here is a sport for under $30K advertised.

http://www.lupientnissan.com/new/Nis...747b71b945.htm

These are advertised prices, anyone can get a few bucks off that. Do a Truecar price and let me know when my nomination takes place.

Also keep in mind it's mid March, price a 2014 in October

13Maximasv

Bingo

Minneapolis MN sells Maximas for much less than most parts of the country