Tomas MaxThriller

This last Friday I went to Summit Point Raceway (WVa) for Friday at the track. As I shouldered in amongst a crowd of people for the class session I met a few bright eyed excited newbies like myself. After a brief training session on to track driving where we got an overview of the track, how to drive the lines, the hand signals and meaning of the different flags ,my first instruction was to empty my car of everything and go line up in the pit lane with my group.

The array of cars was amazing. There were Vets including a ZR1, Mustangs, BMWs, Subaru WRXs, Porches, Audi, a Ferrari, and a bunch of Mazda Miata race cars. I was the only Maxima and there was a newer Z. It was a beautiful day and my group of bright shiny cars started lining up ready to go. I had an instructor join me and we suited up. I was glad that I had brought gloves for I was informed that we had to run with our windows down.

So here’s my sense of our Max.

The car handles well. I was able to drive through the curves with a solid feel. The car never scared me, it was easy to hold; it didn’t wobble, shimmy, or slide. Once or twice I felt an under steer breakaway but the car recovered. I may have a false sense of security here because I left stability control on (my instructor highly recommended I do so, and he said I did make it engage a couple of times). But as my driving improved I would say we have a nicely agile car for its size, it is stable, and it holds the rode well. I was impressed that I was able to come up on a lot of my fellow drivers in the curves—even Vets and BMWs.

I left the transmission in full auto. I found I was so excited and there was enough going on that I appreciated having an automatic. I also felt the CVT was a real asset. The car stayed in a good power band and adjusted power smoothly and optimally. She would kick up and roar out of the curves and accelerate beautifully. I also didn’t have to worry that I was abusing the transmission. I learned that you don’t want to do deceleration downshifting. The instruction was that the brakes are much more powerful than the transmission and they much cheaper to repair. Also, the brakes are the tool to use to setup the car for the turn. I was really happy with my Max and the experience she gave me. I was like a proud Poppa when I’d overtake BMW 335s. I also thought it cool that I’d catch up to a lot of other cars in the curves and I didn’t have to many car really gain on me when in them.

The negatives.

I really liked the Max’s initial acceleration out of the curves but her limits really came to light in the straight-away. The car accelerates quickly up to about 90 then she starts to taper off. I’d get up to around 100 at about the ½ point then every mile per hour gain would just grind out and I was never able to get much above 110. Some of this is likely due to having to run with the windows open but as I talked to other drivers of comparable cars, they were able to get in the 120 range. To compare, the more powerful cars would get to 130 and the really stout cars (Vets, upper end Porches) were hitting 140-150.

GM_Traitor warned me about my brakes. I went into this with my stock brakes and not really understanding what could happen. But as I started to brake for a turn after one of the faster stretches, the petal went soft. This spooked me a bit and made me stop pushing so hard. I later discovered that I had not only overheated my brake fluid, but I also trashed my front rotors and pads. So the stock brakes on this car are no match to conditions of the track and it looks like I’ve got my first mod to the car.
IFuxWitUz and Ghozt are our power innovators. I’d be real interested in getting some upper end speed measures from your cars—like the time and distance it takes to get from 65 to 115 on a level straight stretch. I was a disappointed that I couldn’t get above 110.

vr4z06gt

Very nice to hear. Do you have the circuit layout and times? I have been thinking of trying an autocross circuit or two, something just to get out and use it legally. I notice the same thing on the top end, about 95-100 it really slows down, even on mile long straights it takes forever to accelerate and only tops out around 125-130. I would imagine this is purely computer controlled at that point. If anyone can chime in to the power programmers? I know they don't do much, if anything, for power additions, but do they free up the ability for the car to stretch its legs at higher speeds?

HMAX08

What no pics?

jeffrop

This is very interesting to me since I've raced motorcycles at Summit Point and now own an '11 Max.

I also own an '02 TL-S that's pretty much set up for the track but never been on one. Now I want to do a track day in my car/s!

Ghozt

Yeah no kidding, you make me want to take my car to the track TODAY lol. You want high end power try out the CXJ Thermal Spacers, a quote directly from Wally (IFuXwitUz) "i get to 100 so much easier now". where you say your car tapers off around 100, i feel like mine does that around 110-115. on straight-aways I've kept up with AMG's but around 120 they start pulling away

Great post man, good to hear the info about the brakes too before anyone else hits the track and wrecks theirs.

IFuXwiTuZ

well first things first is that he made the mistake of leaving his car on D, D is NOT a mode that is good on a long stretch as i noticed that the CVT takes a deep breath at 80-100mph (quote from eddymax) and that is something only a transmission retune (which i dont think is possible) would be able to fix. It especially doesnt help if your car is stock. Like ghost said mods like the manifold spacers and the block off plates will defiantly help ram the air into your engine much better @ higher speeds/rpm's.

If you would of kept the vehicle in DS mode it would of been a much better choice for the track as the rpms stay @ a higher power band and you will not cause the tranny to heat up as fast as it does on D (to avoid this you will need a cooler installed like i have done)

and a suspension upgrade would of been a good choice also as the maxima with NO SUSPENSION mods handles like a boat.

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

Tomas, first off, congrats on hitting up a FATT Friday at Summit! Kinda jealous you beat me there first

At least you made it out of there alive without any mechanical problems or damage to the car. Always a win no matter what bud! I'm glad I forewarned you about the brake fade on stock pads/rotors/fluid man. Even Nismo 370Z's have this problem with their Akebono BBK. Next time you go back to the track, throw on some EBC slotted rotors, EBC Red or Greenstuff pads or Hawk HPS+ (they have a much higher heat threshold than the stockers) and also put in some Motul high temp brake fluid. All these things combined should really help reduce the amount of fade you see after some hot laps. Also, you could retrofit a front brake cooling system using the lower bumper grilles next to the foglamps. Here is a link from the370z.com which shows the concept I'm referring to: http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ing-ducts.html

IFuXwiTuZ is absolutely right about the trans cooler if you're going to flog this car. This is one reason why I haven't hit up a FATT event yet. Even on some hot runs at Tail of the Dragon at ZDayZ, I made the trans go into safe mode (using mainly M1-M4 only). Trans cooler is one of the mods I definitely want in the very near future.

Tomas MaxThriller

Check out the web site. The downside is the season is over and won't resume until the spring. I think local autocross is in the same boat.

http://www.summitpointfatt.com/

Tomas MaxThriller

That's interesting. I was was thinking it's the other way around. In D mode the transmission keeps the RPM up in the top end of the power band and holds it. Now you've got me curious.

As far as the comment about the suspension--I find this car very responsive and it doesn't seem to wallow at all. Maybe it's because I haven't experienced anything to compare it to. One of the reasons I took the stock car to the track was to get an idea of the mods I need. I'm kicking around the Eibach Pro Springs I also don't want to trash the smooth travel ride of the car. I wish I lived closer to you guy's so I could experience your cars first hand then decide what I want to do. No guts--I know!

bryansuavo

nice man! i want to take mine to the track someday.

Makc1kNYC

The bad thing I hate about this car is, it heats up extremely fast if you abuse it! I like to drive fast :-).

My car is dropped on BC coils, it handles very good! I can make sharp turns and it will take it like nothing. I have a stillen intake, racingline y pipe and deleted resonator car sounds very similar to a C63 AMG or the old coupe G35 :-)

Overall Im happy with my car.

Tomas MaxThriller

Hey GM - Doing the track was a rush. I definitely want to put some decent vented rotors and stout pads on the car, then go try it again. I am counting on the Max being a pretty stout car, so I hope I don't abuse her to much.

I'm thinking that if I get into this that I will buy an older car (Miata likely--they're cheap) and fix it up to abuse.

Do you agree with IFuXwiTuZ wrt DS mode. I haven't experimented yet but with the way the CVT behaves, I'd think it would get me to the top speed the fastest.

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

Nice story, I say get those spacers and BOP and maybe a Exhaust and Intake if you dont have it already...

Ghozt

definitely a trans cooler if you're looking at doing this more. and yea spacers+bops will help shift the power band to the right

zman764

IMO I feel this car is way too prone to understeer. Did you have the same feeling on your track?
On tight switch back corners it seems very noticeable to me but on long sweeping corenrs the understeer is way less pronounced and easier to control. I have the premium package not the sport and I still have the factory RS-A tires I'm sure the sport max w/ a real set of tires would make tremendous strides in getting rid of the understeer... well as much as you can w/ a car that has a 60+% front weight distribution haha

Shift_Max

iTrader: (18)

Summit Point is a great track for beginners and the friday at the track event is another reason people go there.

But you proved that stock maxima brakes suck. You at least need Hawk pads and ATE fluid.

jeffrop

FWIW here's my take on the issue
Regarding the brake fade issue it's been my experience (from 10 years roadracing motorcycles) that all the brake lines need to be upgraded to SS Braided lines. A better fluid that has a higher boiling point will also help.

Two things are going on during brake fade which are caused by one thing - HEAT:
1) Superheated brake fluid will boil, thus reducing its effectiveness or resistance to compression, causing the pedal to go farther because you're compressing air in the fluid to get the same stopping power

2) Stock rubber lines are not designed to handle extreme heat and will expand which also contributes to extreme pedal fade.

The first thing we upgrade on our race bikes are brake lines to SS braided lines. I don't know if the stock Maxima lines are braided or not but I wouldn't hit a track without them.

I've never raced cars but the basic function of the braking systems work the same. As you continue to up the ante (ie competition) you need to upgrade other components as well with bigger/better rotors, calipers, and racing compound pads, ventilation to the brakes, etc.

I would think the occasional track day/daily driver would only need braided lines, better fluid, and possibly more aggressive pads depending on how often and how hard you drive it. The more heat you put in the stock setup the more damage it will eventually cause (warped rotors for example).

SNEEKYFAST

DS is still in "auto" mode. It just raises your shift-point. You don't have to shift it if you don't feel like it, just pull your shifter over to the left and leave it. The car will still pull like in "D", it just holds the gear a little longer

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

VQ's are notorious for heat-soak when you drive 'em hard. From what I can gather, this has always been an issue. Could always retrofit some NACA ducts into the hood to help bring in cooler and excavate the hot air under the hood lol. Only problem is, would ruin the smooth look of our hood

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

Well... 60/40 weight distribution plus a high center of gravity = understeer in any car lol. Trust me, I experienced all sorts of "steer" while at Tail of the Dragon and the Cherohala Skyway (lift-off oversteer in long sweeping corners and catastrophic understeer when staying on the gas in long, high speed corners). Off throttle in tight chicanes and switchbacks, the car handles great. The stock suspension on a front heavy car plus FWD = pwned by RWD any day. It's the laws of physics... unfortunately, we can't really escape them

I do think that the RS-A tires played a significant role in this problem. One thing I did notice was after installing the Eibachs and RL endlinks front and rear, got rid of a fair amount of understeer (even with still having the RS-A's on there). Throwing on a set of DWS rubber in the next month (Hankook V12 summer rubber in the spring), so I'm sure the handling limits will be increased a fair amount.

You're absolutely right though, a new set of tires would be a huge improvement in handling and cornering grip. Probably the best mod you can do to improve handling even over Eibachs, etc.

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

Couldn't have said it better myself man. For street use, I think SS lines, higher temp pads, slotted rotors (of better quality) and high temp brake fluid on a daily driver 7th gen will make a world of difference. Folks can also see the link i posted to the brake cooling idea on the 370. Wouldn't be hard at all to do on our cars and would help ensure the brakes stay cooler on the track or hard street use.

williammmurphy

i am surprized no one has tuned in about the vis or anti lock switch .i am believing from other post that full throttel, power,tires spinning, is governed and limited with this switch on. i bet your times would have been mutch better with this switch off but your instructer felt u would be saftey better as a smart car drive . i would have done the run on my terms not controled by the computer of the car. i did like your report though.

zman764

@williammmurphy

These cars have an open front differential so if you're exiting a corner and get on the throttle with the wheel turned, the inside tire is going to spin helplessly and with VDC off it will spin until it eventually gets traction. I am willing it bet the computer can manage the throttle better than the average driver... ie ... the average driver just flooring the throttle with accelerate quicker with VDC on than the average drivers attempt to feather the throttle and feed in smoothly... Just a thought tho.

Tomas MaxThriller

I felt under steer a couple of times. In my brief education on track driving there are a few things at play in the curves. First, your very conscious of your line and you don't have the constraints of staying in your lane. The initial cut into the turn is the most destabilizing but you have room to correct. Once into the turn then it is a matter of momentum. Even though this car has a wide posture, it's still a heavy FWD car and it has its limits. Except for the switchback case, the other thing your doing is braking hard prior to the turn which does throw the front end down and increases the contact surface of the tire. I haven't really gotten this at all, but braking is a big element of setting up a turn. Even entering the switch back section my instructor would tell me to tap the brake. I didn't get it. One other thing, the RS-A's held well. I understand that good tires are one of the best mods you can make but at my level they held well. The only thing I did notice later was the outer edge of my front passenger side tire feathered a little. The switch back section had a tight left curve.

Lots to learn. Thanks for all the feedback guy's. Since I trashed my rotors the first thing I'm going to do is rotors and pads. I've had several recommendations for EDC rotors and Hawk pads. I haven't had a chance to take a look yet.

Tomas MaxThriller

I am curious about this. I don't know if I'll have the guts to turn it off. I have a feeling it kept me out of trouble a couple of times. As far a accelerating, I found the car gave a smooth application of power out of the turns and that's what you want. Also, I was never slowed enough that I had to worry about breaking loose under throttle. This might be a different story if I was trying to control the transmission. I get the sense there's a lot of skill to develop before I'd ever be able to hold this car at its limits on the track. Actually the next time I go I intend to slow down a bit and work on timing, sighting and staying on the track line and being able to run the course smoothly. My instructor felt my lap time would improve significantly if I didn't make any mistakes. I was not able to time a lap but maybe next time I will. It was however rare that I got to run a lap without getting behind other drivers that controlled my pace. The pass zones are restricted for us newbies.

alexdi

Braking, braking. No breaking, that'd be bad.

This is not a track car. Nothing about this car is fit for track duty. Tires, brakes, ride height, spring rates, weight distribution, transmission, cooling, it's all wrong. It's a sporty sedan within the class of FWD family cars. That's all, and that's enough. For all the things you'll end up replacing if you track it seriously, you might as well buy an old Miata.

Regarding stability control: it doesn't appear to have any effect on off-the-line acceleration.

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

I agree with this 100%. However, that doesn't keep folks from tracking 1968 Chevy Nova's around a road course or taking a 1996 Civic and turning it into a 1/4 mile monster

Mild mods to this car will give most folks a blast around a track every once in a while. I certainly plan on doing this myself after I swap out the pads/rotors/fluid and put on some summer tires. Is it worth it? Eh, probably not money-wise... but I'll be having a blast. In the end, that's what matters right?

alexdi

I like my car too much to track it. A single racing lap would cause more wear and tear than thousands of miles of road driving. If you can afford the consumables (defined here as just about every moving part on the car), by all means, but you'd have more fun with something more suited to the purpose. It's one thing to wad up an old Civic when the brakes fail. It's quite another with a late-model Maxima.

Ghozt

yeah true it may be more fun, with like a 370z, just not everyone can afford or has the space for 2 cars. I needed a Max over a 370 because a 2 seater car just isn't practical for me at all. for me my Max is the ultimate DD + a fun whip to drive. i think you're misunderstanding it if you think anyone is trying to make a 7th gen a 10 second car; we're just taking a car thats fun as hell to drive and notching it up a little bit.

this post outlines an important part of any car - the brakes! go try even racing around town for a while and you'll notice your brakes are really starting to get squishy. i think regardless of if you hit the track or just enjoy "spirited" driving a brake upgrade is probably the smartest upgrade you can do. SS brake lines, some pads with nice bite (Hawk or EBC), and maybe some new rotors for those who drive hard. Or you can take it to another level like GM has tossed around and just slap a BBK on there.

Tomas MaxThriller

Dude - I thought something was wrong with spelling but it was BC (before coffee) and I was in a hurry.

I hope this car is stout enough to put up with at least one more visit. I've started to save money for the old Miata though.

GM_Traitor3.5VQ

Actually, a 370Z around the track is just as dangerous (see Car and Driver's review of the Nismo and the brake failure!).

I agree with Ghozt though... I needed a DD that had power, handling, looks and comfort all rolled into one. Plus, he's freakishly tall like me and the 7th gen fits like a glove.

You can certainly never have "too much" braking power and fade resistance. This is one area on all my cars I have never skimped or cheaped out on. If you want one of the best BBK's out there, check out this StopTech kit which WILL fit on our cars since any 370Z/G37 kit will work for us as well.

http://www.z1motorsports.com/g37_370...oducts_id=4038

IFuXwiTuZ

yup thats exactly what i ment....