KillaKam

Ok so I cleaned my car yesterday since it was a nice day and today when I was cleaning my wheels I noticed that the exhaust was just in un-executable condition for a "stainless steel" system. What do you guys think of this? I am not going to stand by Stillen this is a problem from the beginning with most that should be addressed because if this can happen in a little years time then imagine over a few years. I called Stillen and spoke to Margaret Lo and sent her the same photos that she will send to her upper management I believe she said. Customer service is what is key here and as long as the can fix the issue then it will show how good of a company Stillen is and how much they stand by their products.

Xservice0183

I must be stoopid, but I thought SS didn't rust?

Mreim769

I hope you can help an old friend with severe colour blind eyes, are the tips rusted/starting to rust? That would be incredibly embarrassing for Stillen being that is the main focal point for their product. I mean I could see the muffler and pipes getting surface rust being the material they used but the tips are a whole other story.

KillaKam

Yeah I though so to, lol.

No I don't think that the tips are but the mufflers are, the pipes are pretty much rusted (surface rust probably), and the welding marks everywhere are rusted as well.

HenryLee

wow thats a lot of rust. You should contact stillen.

MiDiablo

iTrader: (1)

CT = Snow; Snow = Salted roads; Salted roads = rust.

If you wanna move to FL, I can help ya

GLW Stillen, maybe they'll hook you up, but I wouldn't expect it, IMO.

MiDiablo

iTrader: (1)

Also - here's a link in regards to SS rusting:

http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#3

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

They claim to use T304 SS, however T409 is somewhat the Exhaust standard (Borla uses T304 also) and T409 does get surface rust.

T304 is a superior SS. I wonder if they didn't use T304 SS???

http://www.doityourself.com/video/T-...view-195165236

KillaKam

Hey everyone got a reply about an hour ago and this is what was stated:
Kamber,
*
Thank you for taking the time to send these pictures. For your information our exhaust kits are made with 409 and 304 stainless steel. The exhaust kit is guaranteed against rust through for the life of the vehicle; to the original owner. 409 stainless steel is utilized by most exhaust manufacturers. The characteristics of this type of stainless steel is that it may develop a light surface rust or discoloration in most atmospheric conditions which actually limits further oxidation. Please see this industry description.
*(http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=969)
In order to keep your muffler cans and tips looking new, we recommend a quality chrome polish like Mother’s or Meguiar’s be applied from time to time. If at any time our kit rusts through, we will immediately repair or replace the part.
Best regards,
*
Chuck Clemens
Customer Service Manager
Steve Millen Sportparts Inc.

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Wow - well they need to change their website....

T409 isn't mentioned at all... Unfortunately when they say "Our STILLEN exhaust for the Maxima is the best system available" that is so true since no one else produces an exhaust for this car. Honestly this has been my biggest regret to purchasing this car.

http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...N&model=MAXIMA

whtdvl

In other words leave us alone. The surfaces is not that bad but the welding marks is what would really bother me. Good luck

KillaKam

Nice find Ima have to look into that more tonight and more than likely will be emailing them back or giving them a call. There web site says nothig about the 409SS only the 304SS

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Yes make sure you point out that "Construction is all mandrel bent tubing for performance and T304 stainless steel"

They should say using a "combination of T304 / T409 SS".....

So sorry this has happened to you, look at the rest of your Max, it looks great underneath nothing like that exhaust.

67whitegoat

iTrader: (4)

Apparently Stillen doesn't get how much your posting these pictures on the Org can hurt them.

KillaKam

O don't worry, lol. I am going to make a note of it in the next email that I sent to Stillen

UPDATE: Here is the email that I just sent out to Stillen

Chuck,

This is in response to the email that I sent to Margaret earlier in the day about the exhaust surface rust. During that time I had also posted the pictures on Maxima.org to see what my fellow 7th Generation Owners had to say about the surface rust.

I then posted a copy of the email that you sent to me on the forums as well and again they pointed out another great point to my and I am sure that many more people will see and not be to happy with possibly. Basically what the pointed out is that on your web site and I quote:

________________________________

"Our STILLEN exhaust for the Maxima is the best system available. Construction is all mandrel bent tubing for performance and T304 stainless steel (Polished Tips, End Pipes and Mufflers, matte piping) for long life in any climate. Straight through Mufflers are wrapped in an exclusive Italian granite wool for long life and responsible sound level. Available as a Rear Section exhaust only. Combine with our "B" Pipe for Full Cat Back performance. The end result is increased torque and power with the Full Cat Back System having approximately a 5 horsepower edge of the rear section alone.

The mandrel bent "B" Intermediate Pipe is made of T304 stainless steel. It replaces the pipe between Muffler and the Catalytic Converter. When used with a rear section exhaust, if forms a complete Cat Back System. The stock piping contains restrictive bends and crimps. By replacing these with smooth mandrel bends, the exhaust flows freely and increases power. The stock resonator is removed and a moderate increase in noise level is expected. Includes gaskets and hardware. 2 Pipes make up the "B" pipe."

________________________________

That is a direct copy and past from your web site and what was pointed out to me is that no where on your web site description of the 2009-10 Nissan Maxima Exhaust does it state that you use a combination of T304 & 409 stainless steel. I feel very disappointed that it was not disclosed from the beginning when I initiated the group buy for your products that it was not mentioned or shown that the exhaust used a combination of 304 & 409 Stainless Steel.

I would appreciate it if you could send me some Stainless Steel polish that way I can test and see if the rust is going to come off of my system. I do not believe that I should spend any money on this system only to have it go to waste and not being able to clean it anyways. I have a $10 credit with Josh because when I received my kit I was missing a gasket and had to pay the dealership to put one on the car. You can put that towards the polish because at this time I am not sure if I will do business with Stillen unless everything turns out to be find after I attempt to clean my exhaust and if not have it replaced.

Thank you,

Kamber B. Bulica

2009maxima sv-sport

iTrader: (1)

wow this is my first post i really been looking at stillen to upgrade my max but after seeing these pics im having second thoughts.

GEAR_HEAD

I put an SLP exhaust on my 2004 Grand Prix GTP a few years ago. I have never polished it or given it any special attention and it has seen 3 PA winters worth of road salt, and it is still spotless. Why can't Stillen produce an exhaust of this quality, especially for almost $800? I paid somewhere around $450 for the SLP and it is much higher quality. I have a Stillen exhaust sitting in my shed waiting to be put on the Max, but only because unfortuantely they are the only choice. It seems like Stillen knows they have us by the nuts because they are the only player in the Max exhaust market so they know they can gouge us and use inferior materials.

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

occhhh thats alot of rust on their, it deff shouldnt of gotten like that so soon...good luck on everything keep us posted

marjen

iTrader: (1)

I have the stillen exhaust and honestly hate it. Most likely at some point this spring I will return to the stock exhaust, what a waste of $450. I have had an issue with mine were the hangers are not even close to even, and this is after some modification from the installers. Stillen did nothing but blow me off on the issue, their CS sucks. Mine has only been on about 3 months and starting to see some rust already as well (I live in CT). Its also extremely noisy around the 2-3k rpm cycle making it difficult to even carry a conversation in the car.

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

alot of issues ive been hearing with the hangers as well, they dont seem to be matching up properly

MiDiablo

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone got together and setup any type of a petition to lobby any of the other exhaust manufacturers to bring "something better" (or even comparable) to the Maxima marketplace? I don't know what, if any, response it would create - but would be possibly worth a shot.

IE: Greddy makes exhaust for higher-end markets, such as Lexus, Toyota, etc. So does Tanabe. Maybe either of those guys?

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

i think this has been tried already, i guess many companies dont wanna make parts for our cars due to these economic times

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Interesting, and quite telling to see their take on things... "It hasn't rusted through,".

What a load of bologna!

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

What I'd do is:

Custom exhaust with some existing universal mufflers (Magnaflow/Vibrant/Borla etc). You'd have to check that the muffler tips would line up etc.

I have an '04 that I installed a Greddy SP2 on years ago when it first came out. After adding headers, the sound got all raspy, so I chopped off the Greddy mufflers and installed some universal Vibrant 1148s and couldn't be happier. Looking back, I should have done that from the start with some custom piping from a local muffler shop. I would have saved myself hundreds of dollars.

2009maxima sv-sport

iTrader: (1)

any updates from stillen on the problem.

KillaKam

No I emailed the guy back and have not gotten an answer from them. I am going to give the a call very shortly.

2009maxima sv-sport

iTrader: (1)

i was going to order this but now its on hold because of this post.

SiathLinux

For 800 I could have had a local shop build an exhaust system from TRUE stainless steel (which by the way DOES NOT RUST LIKE THAT - see my qualifications on this at bottom of post), including a TRUE stainless Muffler that would perform just as well if not better than this Stillen Hack.... seriously, I thought Stillen was 'all that', seeing this, I may have revise my thinking. It's 'rusting' is very different, unless of course it's really low quality material, ie barely considered to be stainless.

Also, in looking at your images, the 'shell casing' for the muffler itself isn't rusting the same as the rest of your exhaust, that shell casing is stainless (too bad they used regular welding rods (probably 1014 from the looks of the weld), also not one single weld on the car was done with Stainless rods (http://www.techalloy.com/products/st...electrodes.asp for the autofeed type).

My thoughts on this,

"Can stainless steel rust? Why? (I thought stainless did not rust!) Answer: Stainless does not "rust" as you think of regular steel rusting with a red oxide on the surface that flakes off. If you see red rust it is probably due to some iron particles that have contaminated the surface of the stainless steel and it is these iron particles that are rusting. Look at the source of the rusting and see if you can remove it from the surface. If the iron is embedded in the surface, you can try a solution of 10% nitric and 2% hydrofluoric acid at room temperature or slightly heated. Wash area well with lots and lots of water after use. Commercially available "pickling paste" can also be used." SSINA Stainless Steel FAQs.



~ I've extensively researched metallurgy as I have future plans to create custom swords, best stainless is 440 Carbon Hardened (also most expensive to get in 'bulk block'. I've also had a lot of 'custom fabricating' experience with Stainless Steel, and in extreme heat solutions (running a rotating kiln) - this machine was open to the sky, and not a single part of the stainless on it rusted.

jerome johnson

iTrader: (2)

Mine was starting to rust similar to yours, but I have been hitting with some stainless polish from time to time to keep the rust from getting too severe. I think I am going to either spray some high temp silver paint on the pipes or maybe take off and have it ceramic coated at the powder coating shop. Its definitely enough work to keep the top of your max looking good let alone having to polish the underside too.

hardcashsab31

thanks for the info guys i think i`m gonna buy some universal borla mufflers instead of going with the stillen system. i`ve had borla mufflers on many vehicles and never had rusting issues.

KillaKam

Ya I gotta say that I am debating wether or not I should lawyer up and get them for false advertising if they do not sent me a new "True Stainless Steel System" because I am getting very very upset with the quality of this exhaust. I should not have to spend even more time cleaning under the car. I can see every once in a while but this is crazy. There is no way to even clean the welds themselves because they used cheap crap for it.

Ya your probably better off and no problem.

Merlyn

iTrader: (4)

Wow... Lawyering up... WTF... it is an exhaust, it gets surface rust... no one sees under your car and it isn't rusting through...

I am looking at pictures of my Cattman exhaust I had for my 5.5 it had rust on the muffler, rust on all of the pipes and the welds...

And to start Stillen didn't even say they used 409 on the Maxima system, they just stated that they use both kinds of Stainless Steel.

It doesn't say all are made with both, it just says as a general rule both forms are used
All quotes from Stillen regarding the different product lines they use... Not once did I read that they use both 304 and 409 in the same system....

If you want a show car never drive it... amazes me you are complaining about surface rust on a Stainless Steel exhaust. Find me a Stainless Steel exhaust that does not discolor or hold some form of surface rust I'll apologize but when you pay $800 for what looks like a Dual Exhaust be happy it was that little.

http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5..._Code=350Z_EXH $1,345

I am not saying AAM makes amazing products but that is $500 more then your dual exhaust.


I think you should get over your expectations of what an exhaust should do since you clearly think they are installed primarily for looks. Maybe for you they are but that is not their purpose and unfortunately things wear over time...

my 2 cents.

seeker

iTrader: (2)

^ Owned.

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Who in the Northeast can take a picture of your STOCK exhaust system, you must have had your Max (7th Gen) for the last 15 months.

Please post some pictures let's compare stock to Stillen....

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

jerome johnson

iTrader: (2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgG6y...FWV75Qodwz2LUw

stockmaximaFTW

iTrader: (1)

stealingstillens at it again. NOT.

it's an exhaust it rusted it's your own fault for not knowing that it would rust. why do you care if it's shiny? so your mechanic can see his reflection?

you really want to use 316 SS for it's anti rust w/ the added moly if i remember correctly, but it's expensive.

at the end of the day you paid 800+ for an exhaust which a custom shop could make for under 400 installed and it would look the same way.

i think you guys just didn't do your research before you bought the exhaust.

isn't this the exhaust that didn't get dynoed and is for looks/sound only?




edit: nissan warranties the stock exhaust for life

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

wouldnt you want your stillen exhaust to be shiny?

SiathLinux

A stainless steel exhaust should be just that - STAINLESS STEEL - and from the images of that exhaust = none of that tubing is really stainless - (look a at a Harley Davidson's mufflers and pipes - exposed fully to the weather - and not a bit of RUST... stainless doesn't oxidize 'red' it's different...

He paid for Stainless Steel - he should have Stainless Steel

KillaKam

Thank you very much.. Exactly, I paid for SS and thats what I should have gotten.